How we view our earthly fathers is how most view God

[Flynmonkie]

One of the writers of a book I had read made this statement; That many times, we view God from the perspective of how we view our earthly fathers.

If our earthly fathers were gentle, loving, giving, supporters or they were/are an authoritative dictator, harsh, or if they were heavy-handed etc, we may think of God in this manner.

Any of these situations could cause a distortion of Gods true character by mixing only experience with scripture. Not realizing the perfection of Gods love for us and his desire for salvation and good for us. More importantly His unconditional love.

I took some time to apply perspective to my own life, and I found it to be remarkably true. I gauged how God would react to me, or my worthiness to Him by the reactions of those in authority over me. How they treated or responded to me, completely subconsciously. But I did find that I would probably extend that comment out to anyone whom had authority over us, not just fathers. (Hope this makes sense) What do you think about these thoughts?

(I cannot remember which book this had been mentioned in, it was very brief. So if anyone recognizes this let me know!)

[Robinsegg]

There's a Beth Moore study based on this premise. It's based for the father-daughter relationship, and is called In My Father's House. It's a great study.

Actually, I believe God created this situation when He created the family. The father is supposed to be a picture of God for us. That's also why we call him "Our Father in Heaven". We are to see Him as our Father, our Daddy, our Abba. In a perfect world, like the one He created the family in, this would be an accurate picture.

Yes, I found it true in myself. I had many issues to work out. There were other ladies in the class we were doing the study in who had been shuffled around foster homes, had never had much of a father figure in their lives, or had massively abusive fathers that this premise was true for, as well.

Rachel

[Flynmonkie]

:wave: Rachel, Thank you so much!:thumbsup: Yes, I believe it had to be one of Beth Moore’s books. I have a couple of them from her (I really like her!) and it would make sense why it was only briefly mentioned if this is a topic she devoted another entire book! I am going to get that. I found it to be actually compelling. I think about it all the time!

[Chris Norwood]

:wave: Rachel, Thank you so much!:thumbsup: Yes, I believe it had to be one of Beth Moore’s books. I have a couple of them from her (I really like her!) and it would make sense why it was only briefly mentioned if this is a topic she devoted another entire book! I am going to get that. I found it to be actually compelling. I think about it all the time!
I wonder if that is as true of men as it is women?

I would have to say that it's true in my case, but then again I had a fantastic Dad, so it might just be that they happen to line up together.

[Flynmonkie]

I would think it would be true, I guess it is sort of the emotional aspects of our primary groups donation to our self worth as we are growing. If you had a fantastic father that urged you to grow at your own pace, and corrected you in a loving manner. It might be easier to relate to Gods undying unconditional love. I think? I did not have that in my life, but with only one man, my grandfather. I thought he walked on water and vice versa. I never wanted to disappoint him, but even when I did, he just wrapped his arms around me and said, “That's ok honey”, and “you’ll do better next time”. Just knowing that he believed I would, made me want to strive harder to be better at whatever the situation was. But the funny thing is - I never had to try.. See what I mean it is just an interesting perspective..

[Flynmonkie]

There's a Beth Moore study based on this premise. It's based for the father-daughter relationship, and is called In My Father's House. It's a great study.
Rachel

Rachel, the only things I see is Corrie Ten Boom or another author with that title? Do you think this might have come from Beth's book, "Believing God"? I have this one too, I think it is on loan right now?!

[JPPT1974]

Even though we have earthly fathers
To watch over us until it is time for them to go to heaven, there is one Heavenly and eternal Father
Who will watch over us and guide and care for us
No matter what occurs nor happens
That is the God the Father who sent His one and only beloved and precious Son
To die for us only to arise again from the dead

[Chris Norwood]

Unfortunately, calling God "Father" has so much of a bad impression for someone whose earthly father was absuive or absent. I have a friend at work whose mother and father divorced just after she was born because he was physically abusive to her even while pregnant. Thankfully, he never abused my friend, but she saw him beat her stepmom and stepbrothers on the few occasions she would spend a weekend with him. Hypocritically, he would then drag them to church every Sunday, where he would act like the perfect Christian and be all religious. This, of course, totally turned my friend and her mother off to the church, and it's now very hard to undo what damage her father has done, because our fathers are supposed to be our model for God. I'm just trying to give her a (hopefully) good example of what a Christian should be, and maybe serving at least as a "big brother" model of male guidance and love.

[Flynmonkie]

Yes, I can say that I had similar things happen to me in my life. I used to always say, "I never met more hypocritical people than when I attended church.":sigh:

I guess I should have included my grandmother she was the same as my granddaddy to me until the age of 5. Then my mother, having a difficult time reasoning being a single mother of a rape baby, married an adult child of an alcoholic that was extremely abusive, both physically and mentally. Looking back, she feels that might have influenced her judgment. So I had been taken away from my grandparent’s guidance. My mother, thinking Christian schools would teach me the “right way” in life. She sent me to some very strange protestant Christian schools, which were very authoritarian and legalistic. God hated everything, and you have to prove yourself to Him sort of deal. It is there where I learned scripture and “biblical reasoning.” This combined with my stepfather and his family that was very Catholic just confused the situation. Which send me into a lifelong spin of resentment and question. Later in life, after being so angry and confused, I gave it to God. He answered me. In my studies since, I see an entirely different God than what I had been shown before, more likened to the God of my grandparents.

I know that many of us hold to different beliefs on this (the thread that can be started gets long just thinking about it!) It has been discussed many times here. But I believe it is both the mother and the father that give impression as you say, (Heirs together) so those with just a mother as the authority, maybe by cultural standards they believe that God will abandon them? Etc.. I think it is all very relative on how one was raised. I personally believe anyone that holds authority over someone is held by the same standards from God, male or female. But I can say that as I address these thoughts in my own life, my relationship with God becomes more fulfilling. It is just a very interesting concept or was for me. It might not apply to others but I thought it would be interesting to discuss. It also helps me understand where others come from when they view things differently than I.

[Robinsegg]

Rachel, the only things I see is Corrie Ten Boom or another author with that title? Do you think this might have come from Beth's book, "Believing God"? I have this one too, I think it is on loan right now?!

It may very well be based on this book. I remember the study (and a spiral-bound study book), but it may have been based on the book you mention.

Rachel

[Brian2944]

The basis on seeing God's character through our earthly fathers is helpful, but not required. For those that are blessed with God-fearing fathers are able to use this analogy to better understand the Love/Discipline concept. I believe this was God's intention. The same as comparing the Old Testament with childhood and the New Testament with adult maturity.

The Old Testament was about rules. You follow the rules you get rewarded, if you don't you are punished. The OT followers did not completely understand the reason for some of the rules (Just like a child may not understand why he can't do certain things). So a child's life and decisions are based more on fear of punishment. Which is why the words "Fear the Lord" is the beginning to a new believer because his/her faith is in its infancy.

As their faith grows they mature in there relationship with Lord and that is what you see in the New Testament. We are now able to understand certain laws given and their purpose. Plus we follow not out of fear, but out of our love for God. I am an adult and when I hurt one of my parents I don't fear their punishment on me. I feel remorse and regret, then I begin to think of all their blessings and love that they gave me. I believe that God uses this the same way to use our sin to bring us back to him and magnify his grace and glory. When we are mature in our relationship with the Lord it is pure love that makes us WANT to follow his commands and decrees. My parents do not have to tell me not to curse at them, it is automatic because of my mature love for them. Jesus came to fulfill the law, he said the greatest commandment is to love the Lord with all you soul, mind, and strength. Then their is no need for enforcing the laws, just like their is no need for our parents to enforce rules when we become adults.

Old Testament - "Fear the Lord"
New Testament - "Seek first the Kingdom of God"

When you make a mistake to your earthly parents, do you say sorry Mom/Dad I will be a better son tomorrow??

Of course not! The more we age the more we understand their love for us and why they did some of the things they did. So the regret of the action against them makes us magnify their love for us. The same with God. God doesn't have the law to condemn us, but to make us CONCIOUS of sin.

Christ be with you

[MsAnne]

Interesting concept and responses.
I was blessed with an incredible Father who loved me like no one else. He expected a lot out of me, but let me know often just how proud he was. I never wanted to disappoint him - not because I was afraid of punishment, but because I wanted to live up to all he wanted for me.

Hmmmm, sounds an awful lot like my Heavenly Father.

[Manna]

This is very true, and an excellent thread. I've never had a very good relationship with my earthly father, and I have trouble with projecting that trouble onto my relationship with God. I have to remind myself that He doesn't feel as negatively towards me as I feel He does.

What about those that never know their fathers? How much harder is it for them to accept God as their Father?

[JPPT1974]

I have had a more better relationship with my dad
As an young adult even to this day
Loved him as a kid but felt more closer to my mo
Back then at the time

[seminarywifealicia]

This is very true, and an excellent thread. I've never had a very good relationship with my earthly father, and I have trouble with projecting that trouble onto my relationship with God. I have to remind myself that He doesn't feel as negatively towards me as I feel He does.

What about those that never know their fathers? How much harder is it for them to accept God as their Father?
I never knew my father. What complicates this is that my mother lied to me about who my father was until I was 10. He pressed her to tell me. Bottom line through this and other experiences, I had a real issue trusting men and likewise trusting the Lord. Breaking Free by Beth Moore helped me see the scriptures for what they were...That God is to be believed...He is my heavenly father..Praise the Lord!

[blessedmomof5]

I have never read that book, but looks like i should, But what a powerful statement flynmonkie, had to sit back and think about that one i always said i have one father and he is in heaven, my heavenly father...my father here on earth does not speak with me..... but now i will evualte how i look at this...hmmmm:prayer:

[handmaiden97]

Hmm, I want to find the above mentioned Beth Moore Study as well. I have heard that teaching often though, and read it in other books.

It is true, I really struggled to grasp God loves and accepts me and it trust worthy, because my biological father was abusive and cheeted on my mom and was not involved in my life (good riddence actually), my step dad drove truck, was never there, was verbally abusive and sometimes physically. And most of the other male authority figures in my life were just as bad if not worse.

I know God is a loving Dad, but sometimes I dont know it internally, or really struggle with it. It has been several years of God re-parenting me, so to say.

[RED that's ME]

Good subject :)

An earthly father should reflect, our heavenly father. Sad to say many don't.

What man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! Mt. 7:9-11.
A father of the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in His holy habitation Ps. 68:5.

Here is a good online source:
http://www.rbc.org/ds/q0108/q0108.html

[Flynmonkie]

See, I think that is where the problem lies for some. I am not so sure that it is even a fair comparison. Our earthly fathers could never be such as our Heavenly Father is to us. For children without fathers (such as myself) these kinds of comments make one feel as if they were less than because if they were good, God would give them fathers. I understand it from the perspective of teaching for “good dads” but I do not understand that perspective in preaching the gospel and what God wants for all. This is where I extend the comment to anyone in authority. We draw from whomever raises us, be it a grandmother, or mother or father or grandfather etc.. even schoolteachers such as myself!

Sometimes I think the teaching itself leads to misconceptions about Gods unconditional love for us, especially those whom had abusive or non-existent parents. I remember as a child hearing these things and thinking, “Why did God not love me enough to give me a father and a mother both?” or I simply spent many years of my life feeling I was unlovable, something was wrong with me. The stigma carried over into many areas of my life. (Of course there was some twisted Biblical teaching at the school I attended that helped this along) I just think it is imperative to follow through with the reassurance that Gods love is not comparable to that of mans (generally male or female). But we should mold ourselves to follow through aiming for that perfect enduring of love to our children.

But it is true. Those that held authority over me seemed to have limits to where they loved. Mistakes were deadly and were met with finality. When I contemplate this thought of how enduring Gods love is – there is nothing (no one) truly comparable on this earth.

It was a wonderful realization for me and it completely turned my thinking around. I am still in search of the study.

[heatherwayno]

My earthly father does not remind me at all of my heavenly father. He was abusive physically and emotionally. For the most part, I am okay with it, becuase I have this amzing heavenly father who makes everything all better again. He listens to my prayers and comforts me when I am sad or alone. I know that the pain I feel here on Earth will go by as quick as the wink of an eye, compared to all the perfect, peaceful moments I will have in glory, worship my eternal father for all eternity! Praise the lord!

[SteelDisciple]

What of the scripture in the bible that says "Call no man Father (in the leadership sense) except for me."

[Dmckay]

Flynmonkie,

As I was reading your OP, I was pleased to read what you had written. The reason, I had read this same thing a couple of times while I was in Bible College. Unfortunately, at that time I didn't understand how important it would be for me to document thoughts like this so that I could find them again.

I was planning on asking you for the source of this quote, when I got to your last sentence. The two authors that I read this in were talking about a comprehensive study that had been done in either the 60s or 70s. The study reflected just whaat you reported, but it was generic. Both males and females were studied. It made enough of an impression on me that I kept it mind as I was raising our three children. I believe that it really made a difference.

The trouble is, I can't for the life of me recall where I read the information. I have been trying to find the source for more than 26 years. I do know that it wasn't Beth Moore.

[Flynmonkie]

Flynmonkie,

As I was reading your OP, I was pleased to read what you had written. The reason, I had read this same thing a couple of times while I was in Bible College. Unfortunately, at that time I didn't understand how important it would be for me to document thoughts like this so that I could find them again.

I was planning on asking you for the source of this quote, when I got to your last sentence. The two authors that I read this in were talking about a comprehensive study that had been done in either the 60s or 70s. The study reflected just what you reported, but it was generic. Both males and females were studied. It made enough of an impression on me that I kept it mind as I was raising our three children. I believe that it really made a difference.

The trouble is, I can't for the life of me recall where I read the information. I have been trying to find the source for more than 26 years. I do know that it wasn't Beth Moore.

I am still researching this; I too have that nagging feeling because it seemed to instantly clarify so many issues and worthy of a good thorough look. Sounds like you did the same thing. My mind had been busy with another thought, I filed it, and it dissipated. I plan on obtaining the studies I have found and if plausible, contacting the author if no research work is cited. I will let you know what I find. And please keep me informed with your research.

[JPPT1974]

I am still researching this; I too have that nagging feeling because it seemed to instantly clarify so many issues and worthy of a good thorough look. Sounds like you did the same thing. My mind had been busy with another thought, I filed it, and it dissipated. I plan on obtaining the studies I have found and if plausible, contacting the author if no research work is cited. I will let you know what I find. And please keep me informed with your research.

Keep up the good research my friend
We all have nagging feelings
And want to get to the bottom of this
Good luck!

[Flynmonkie]

False Guilt - A Relationship Barrier (http://www.christianforums.com/t2828191-false-guilt-a-relationship-barrier.html#post22894116)
A good article the topic I posed in the above thread.
http://www.probe.org/content/view/646/77/
This article has been taken from the book - "False Guilt" by Steve Shores.


Dmckay - here is what I have now following through with this thought. I believe Shores references this train of thought in his book also "In my fathers House" Mary A. Kassian I am currently waiting for this study which is the one I think robinseggs church group studied?
"Believing God" – Beth Moore I think this is the book it had been referenced in, I will check her citations there.
Other reference material I had been pointed to -
Widdicombe, "The Fatherhood of God" * Peter Widdicombe is Associate Professor of Religious Studies at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario. (does any of those names ring a bell?)