Youth group trouble

[BigFella]

Hi all,

I'm looking for advice. I am a deacon in a conservative Lutheran church. Our long time youth leader is a never married woman who has taken what I feel to be too much of an interest in the young men of the group. She's in her late forties and is a hugger. However, the hugs seem to be too close etc (also back rubs etc). I'm not saying there is anything sexual going on, but it's "inappropriate" touching in my view. Also, this leader has taken it on herself to "mother" several of these young guys, "counselling" them etc. She has driven a wedge between the guys and their mom and dad, letting others in the church know that mom/dad are "bad parents". Deacon board seems hesitant to address this aggressively in the fear of causing a split in the church. Any advice?

[RedneckAnglican]

I have been licenced to substitute teach in 2 Texas school districts...I have also been trained in the Episcopal Churches "All GOD's Children" program to work as a youth worker...I hvave been a youth director at 2 united methodist churches...with that said STOP HER BEFORE SHE GETS YOUR CHURCH SUED OR WORSE!...Just the touching is inappropreate but back rubs?...oh heck no....and anytime a youth workers tryes to replace parents it is WRONG WRONG WRONG...

my two cents...

next?...

[KagomeShuko]

Agreed with Ken here. Why don't you ask about things in the Youth Ministry forum as well? There may be some people there who know about programs and such that can help you.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[LutherNut]

Hi all,

I'm looking for advice. I am a deacon in a conservative Lutheran church. Our long time youth leader is a never married woman who has taken what I feel to be too much of an interest in the young men of the group. She's in her late forties and is a hugger. However, the hugs seem to be too close etc (also back rubs etc). I'm not saying there is anything sexual going on, but it's "inappropriate" touching in my view. Also, this leader has taken it on herself to "mother" several of these young guys, "counselling" them etc. She has driven a wedge between the guys and their mom and dad, letting others in the church know that mom/dad are "bad parents". Deacon board seems hesitant to address this aggressively in the fear of causing a split in the church. Any advice?

If your Deacon board is only worried about a possible split in the congregation and not about the spiritual and physical well-being of the youth, maybe they shouldn't be Deacons. I would bring this up to anyone who will listen, even as far as going above the congregation level to circuit/district/synod officials.

[LilLamb219]

The lady needs to be encouraged to step back a bit (maybe even a lot). Teenaged boys and back rubs???

Whether or not a back rub could be considered inappropriate is not the issue, but what her actions might be implying to young minds is. The guys might be more fond of her than they should and the teenaged girls might be jealous of her or even are angry at her for allowing herself to get too close to these young men. She's not doing anyone any favors by becoming so close to the guys.

At 40, she's probably loving the attention she's getting from the young men and could even be going through a second teenaged hood. She would never admit to such a thing, but I've seen it done a lot. I'm almost 40, and yes, it's VERY flattering when young guys come to me for help, advice, consolation. It's best to back away from that type of situation and do something important...FIND A STRONG MALE ROLE MODEL FOR THESE MEN!

Don't allow the lady to have such control as she has. Get a guy in there fast who can counsel the teen boys! She shouldn't try to play mommy, girlfriend or whatever to these men.

And what those guys say to her in private, should have NEVER been said to any other parent besides that man's parents! She crossed a line there!

Really, I advise you to get a male role model in there fast and encourage the woman to focus on her showing the young women of the group how to be a faithful, god-fearing woman. You know, the older women teaching the younger ones?

:)

[SPALATIN]

Hi all,

I'm looking for advice. I am a deacon in a conservative Lutheran church. Our long time youth leader is a never married woman who has taken what I feel to be too much of an interest in the young men of the group. She's in her late forties and is a hugger. However, the hugs seem to be too close etc (also back rubs etc). I'm not saying there is anything sexual going on, but it's "inappropriate" touching in my view. Also, this leader has taken it on herself to "mother" several of these young guys, "counselling" them etc. She has driven a wedge between the guys and their mom and dad, letting others in the church know that mom/dad are "bad parents". Deacon board seems hesitant to address this aggressively in the fear of causing a split in the church. Any advice?

I have to agree with Ken and Bridget here. At the very least one needs to use Matt 18 principles first and foremost.


15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.


Replace the "he's with she's and that is the way in which you should handle the situation.

She needs the opportunity to repent of her sins and ask forgiveness. Please follow these directions carefully.

[C.F.W. Walther]

I've been trained in youth ministry in both Baptist and Lutheran denoms and what you have described is NOT something learned in training. One of the biggest no-no's mentioned in training is "don't touch". With men it's double jeopardy in this day and age of sexual abuse and we are VERY cognizant of that fact. If the lady had been trained right she would have known all this.

Get her to a review board in the circuit office and have this straightened out and if she still wants to be a youth counselor she needs to be trained in that profession. I'm sure she has the right intentions but some people don't know how to conduct themselves in a situation like this.

[SPALATIN]

I've been trained in youth ministry in both Baptist and Lutheran denoms and what you have described is NOT something learned in training. One of the biggest no-no's mentioned in training is "don't touch". With men it's double jeopardy in this day and age of sexual abuse and we are VERY cognizant of that fact. If the lady had been trained right she would have known all this.

Get her to a review board in the circuit office and have this straightened out and if she still wants to be a youth counselor she needs to be trained in that profession. I'm sure she has the right intentions but some people don't know how to conduct themselves in a situation like this.

I was under the assumption that she had training, but still I think that what is laid out in Matt 18:15-17 is pretty sound doctrine. Paul even alluded to it in 1 Corinthians.

For this woman to undermine the Parents authority is what has me a little upset.

[porterross]

Wow!
As the others have mentioned, the touching has to stop immediately, but I also agree that serious intervention is needed as well.

I have never married women in my family and I have seen some similar behaviors involving their nieces, nephews and children of their friends. When confronted, the behavior ceased, but they also needed time to admit to themselves that their behavior was challenging to the parents' authority.

This is just my opinion, but maybe those who have not been fortunate enough to be parents are expressing their subconscious resentment and deep desire to behave as parents in the only way available to them. Seems the longer it's allowed to continue, the worse it may become.

I feel sorry for her for not having her own children and she obviously has an emotional void that desperately needs to be filled. I think it's a cry for help and/or attention, but I could be wrong. I do feel sorry for her, but as a parent, I would want it to stop ASAP.

Is it normally in our 40's that we naturally begin to realize our own mortality and grasp at whatever makes us feel youthful?

[SPALATIN]

Wow!


Is it normally in our 40's that we naturally begin to realize our own mortality and grasp at whatever makes us feel youthful?

I think that many in their late 30s to early 40s start to realize that life is at the halfway point or soon will be and that is a scary thing for them.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Well I was 35 untill I turned 60 when I had my heart attack (at least I felt like it) and I didn't really realized my mortality. Now it's allmost like I don't want to jeopardize what I have left. Course then on the other hand I would still like to go roaring off into the sunset with my "scoot" :) Stupidity seems to be the order of the day sometimes :P





:scratch:

[Marguerite]

I agree that it is definitely wrong and needs to be stopped. but I am a strong believer in Matthew 18: 15-17.

15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

[porterross]

I agree that it is definitely wrong and needs to be stopped. but I am a strong believer in Matthew 18: 15-17.

15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.


Hi Marguerite. Welcome! :wave:

Beautiful application of Scripture for the problem.:pray:

[ILoveYeshua]

if you're gonna touch, then just wash one another's feet. at least there's a precedent for that.