What would have....

[newbeliever02072005]

What would have happened if the Jews accepted Christ?

This was a question that was brought up in bible study last night at church. I was just wanting to hear if anyone else has thought about this and what opinions you may have.

[Chris Norwood]

I haven't really thought too much about it, but in what way do you mean "accepted Christ"? As in "and did not crucify him" or instead "repented afterwards and the whole nation became Christian"?

Even if the Jews all accepted Jesus after his death, the gospel would still be for the Gentiles as well. That was God's plan from the beginning, as evidenced by this and other passages from the Old Testament:

[The LORD] says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth." -Isaiah 49:6

So, the only real difference would be that there would not be much of a "Jewish" religion left (as they would all be Christian now).

Now, as far as how Jesus would have been crucified, I don't think that it could have happened any other way. Once again, in the Old Testament it was already prophesied that Jesus would be rejected by humanity in general and the Jews in particular:

The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; -Psalm 118:22

He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. -Isaiah 53:3

So God chose a time in which things would unfold in the right way, and part of that was that his own people would reject and crucify him.

[eldermike]

Great question!

God chooses us
I think the question is a great one, it brings up the unreasonable consequences involved in free will.

[53Isaiah]

What would have happened if the Jews accepted Christ?

This was a question that was brought up in bible study last night at church. I was just wanting to hear if anyone else has thought about this and what opinions you may have.
I believe the nation of Israel had several opportunities to accept the kingdom, doctrinally speaking the rejection and stoning of Stephen was the last.

PS: Thank you God for the Gentile Church!

[arunma]

Doctrinally the rejection and stoning of Stephen was the last point the Jew could have accepted the message of the kingdom.

It was? I'm not aware of any doctrine which says that Jews cannot receive Christ and be saved at any time. Perhaps I've misunderstood you; please elaborate.

[53Isaiah]

It was? I'm not aware of any doctrine which says that Jews cannot receive Christ and be saved at any time. Perhaps I've misunderstood you; please elaborate.

If you notice I said Kingdom, not salvation. Yes Jews can recieve christ, just as anyone else could, can, will.

[Imblessed]

It's like asking if the Devil could repent. I just don't see why one would want to speculate on that.

It's not as if it could have possibly happened that way---it just opens the door for open theism imho.

[newbeliever02072005]

It's like asking if the Devil could repent. I just don't see why one would want to speculate on that.

I've already covered that question in this thread
http://www.christianforums.com/t2588377-is-there-a-possibility.html
:D

It's not as if it could have possibly happened that way---it just opens the door for open theism imho.

theism....what is that?

I know that it couldn't have happened that way. Otherwise the bible would be incorrect and that is impossible. I am just trying to hear what others might think about the possibilty.

[eldermike]

I like the way you think! If it was possible then all OT prophesy would amount to a good guess.



If the Jews had accepted Christ the Old Testament would have been a totally different set of books. So IMHO we would have to go back to the garden and start making a new story right from the beginning. The reason is simple. Jesus took on our nature but then lived perfectly, that caused issues with the self-righteous. So to remove those issues we would have to actually be righteous. The fall would not have caused any more than perhaps a citation from God that would have been worked off and forgiven by the time Jesus arrived. Man would have to have inner goodness to begin with.

So we can't start at Jesus time, it would start with Adam.

[rural_preacher]

theism....what is that?

Open Theism...

The belief that God does not really know for sure what choices man will make in the future; therefore, God does not fully know the future. In other words, He is not omniscient. However, Open Theism is a false teaching that directly denies the Word of God.

Psalm 139

1 O LORD, you have searched me
and you know me.

2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
4 Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.
5 You hem me in—behind and before;
you have laid your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.
7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=139&version=31#fen-NIV-16248a)] you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.
11 If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,"
12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,
16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to [b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=139&version=31#fen-NIV-16257b)] me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them! 18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand.
When I awake,
I am still with you.




-

[Andyman_1970]

What would have happened if the Jews accepted Christ?

This was a question that was brought up in bible study last night at church. I was just wanting to hear if anyone else has thought about this and what opinions you may have.

If they had, I believe Christianity would look very different from what we have today.

[arunma]

If they had, I believe Christianity would look very different from what we have today.

Probably for the better. I may think that Judaism is a false religion, but Jews tend to have a most excellent way of combining logic and faith. I imagine that Christianity would be an even richer tradition if we had the benefit of Jewish Christian theologians. That said, I wonder how they would tackle the issue of salvation by faith, and the commandments of Moses.

[Andyman_1970]

That said, I wonder how they would tackle the issue of salvation by faith, and the commandments of Moses.

I don't think it would have been an issue that needed tackling........salvation for 2nd Temple Jews was grace through faith.

[ZiSunka]

What would have happened if the Jews accepted Christ?

This was a question that was brought up in bible study last night at church. I was just wanting to hear if anyone else has thought about this and what opinions you may have.

They did. The people we know as the Jews today are the descendents of the people who didn't accept Christ. The first million or so Christians were mostly converted Jews.

[Athanasian Creed]

...Christianity would be an even richer tradition if we had the benefit of Jewish Christian theologians...

We have and do...there is quite a few of them! ;) I had the priviledge of working for Jews for Jesus in an administrative compacity for almost 3 years. It was wonderful to learn more of the Jewish roots of the Christian faith and to hear and see God's work amongst His chosen people. Some of my greatest experiences were having the opportunity to speak to unbelieving Jewish people of Y'shua ha'Mashiach, the Messiah of Israel and the Saviour of the world and to Messianics of their stories in coming to Messiah!:bow: Many of them pay an extremely high price for following Jesus, many cut of from their immediate family and some considered dead by their unbelieving relatives.:(

It is estimated that of the 15 or so million Jews worldwide that 600K are Messianic (and growing):thumbsup:


Ray :wave:

[JPPT1974]

It's like asking if the Devil could repent. I just don't see why one would want to speculate on that.

It's not as if it could have possibly happened that way---it just opens the door for open theism imho.

It does open the door as the door needs to welcome them as does the people!!

[arunma]

We have and do...there is quite a few of them! ;) I had the priviledge of working for Jews for Jesus in an administrative compacity for almost 3 years. It was wonderful to learn more of the Jewish roots of the Christian faith and to hear and see God's work amongst His chosen people. Some of my greatest experiences were having the opportunity to speak to unbelieving Jewish people of Y'shua ha'Mashiach, the Messiah of Israel and the Saviour of the world and to Messianics of their stories in coming to Messiah!:bow:

Really? That's great! It must have been quite an experience to serve Jews for Jesus. I once saw these people doing ministry in Los Angeles (unfortunately I was an unbeliever at the time, so it was lost on me at the moment). They are very dedicated to the Lord. Of course I still prefer "Christ Jesus" to "Yeshua HaMashiach."

Many of them pay an extremely high price for following Jesus, many cut of from their immediate family and some considered dead by their unbelieving relatives.:(

Yes I know. I've read testimonies from these people. I'm sure they'll have a greater reward in heaven than most of us.

[mlqurgw]

The question is moot. To wonder what might have happened in a hypothetical really has no bearing on anything. The real question that should be considered is why it happened the way it did.

[JPPT1974]

Why it happened the way it did is really up to God you know
Only He knows and it's not for us to decide!