Maybe? jumping ship?

[RedneckAnglican]

I don't know how this is going to be received but I am prayerfully considering moving my membership to a LCMS congregation...Theologically speaking I am much more in line with LCMS thought than I ever was with ELCA thought...This is a hard decision, but it's one I feel I need to address...I do have some questions...well not really some...one...I belong to a Masonic Lodge, but to say that I'm inactive is something of an understatement...I never reaaly considered Masonry and Christianity ( not Lutheranism, but Christianity) at odds, but I am now questioning that...the thing is that I can't really quit...i have Lifetime (endowed) memberships in everything so my name will never really be taken off of the rolls...so I just don't know what to do...I want to fully be a member of the LCMS, but my affiliation with a group that I don't really participate with might keep me from it...advise would help...a lot...pray for me a poor, fat, sinner

[SPALATIN]

I don't know how this is going to be received but I am prayerfully considering moving my membership to a LCMS congregation...Theologically speaking I am much more in line with LCMS thought than I ever was with ELCA thought...This is a hard decision, but it's one I feel I need to address...I do have some questions...well not really some...one...I belong to a Masonic Lodge, but to say that I'm inactive is something of an understatement...I never reaaly considered Masonry and Christianity ( not Lutheranism, but Christianity) at odds, but I am now questioning that...the thing is that I can't really quit...i have Lifetime (endowed) memberships in everything so my name will never really be taken off of the rolls...so I just don't know what to do...I want to fully be a member of the LCMS, but my affiliation with a group that I don't really participate with might keep me from it...advise would help...a lot...pray for me a poor, fat, sinner

Ken,


You might find this link Helpful. (https://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2187)

It will give you a concise synodical standing on Freemasonry and lodges of it's kind.

I am asking people on Lutherquest about this. I will share some of their answers with you when I receive them.

[Protoevangel]

Congratulations on your decision Ken! I really doubt that a "lifetime membership" in the Mason's will hold things up. The Mason's have no claim on you, if you do not to allow them to.

[SPALATIN]

Here is a Lutherquest.org website thread in which I put the question to them. you might be interested in reading what is said.


http://www.lutherquest.org/cgi-bin/discus40/discus.cgi

Click on General Discussions. The thread is titled: LCMS and Freemasonry.

[LilLamb219]

I think it's great that you're questioning the Masons. Don't think that you cannot quit even with your name on a lifetime membership. It gives you a position of being able to answer to those who question you in the future, so now is the time to start preparing your answers to them :) Don't think of it as a hindrance, but as an opportunity further down the line.

[RedneckAnglican]

well...i have an appointment to talk with a Pastor at Shepherd of the hills Lutheran here in San Antonio...we'll see what he says...

[LutherNut]

well...i have an appointment to talk with a Pastor at Shepherd of the hills Lutheran here in San Antonio...we'll see what he says...

That is absolutely the best thing you can do!
God bless, and our prayers are with you.


Jay:thumbsup:

[SPALATIN]

well...i have an appointment to talk with a Pastor at Shepherd of the hills Lutheran here in San Antonio...we'll see what he says...

Ken,

Please let us know how the meeting goes. One of the people on Luther quest put a copy of a letter that resigns you from the Masons. You might want to read it if you haven't already.

Scott

[porterross]

well...i have an appointment to talk with a Pastor at Shepherd of the hills Lutheran here in San Antonio...we'll see what he says...


Good Luck! Hopefully, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I'm a few hours west of San Antonio and the one Lutheran Church we have here is Missouri Synod, so it's all I know.

Let us know how it goes, OK. :clap:

[Jim47]

Great news Ken. I wouldn't worry about the masons. God will provide the answer.

[Protoevangel]

Hey, if they send mason-ninja-demons after you, just pass wind. That's what Luther did!


:sorry: - sorry. Laughter is the best medicine, or so they say.

[RedneckAnglican]

Great news Ken. I wouldn't worry about the masons. God will provide the answer.

I hope HE provides it soon...I'm more than a little torn on this one...My wife has told me that she'll be behind me nomatter what...

and Scott...I have been keeping up with that thread on LutherQuest (Thank you very much for that BTW)...It's just so much more involved than anyone can imagine...I'm not worried about threats or job recriminations or the like...quite honestly Masons just don't do that sort of thing anymore...but they did say that Masonry isn't suppose to take the place of your Church so maybe that's the answer there...

just thinking out loud...don't mind me...i'm just being confused...

[SPALATIN]

I hope HE provides it soon...I'm more than a little torn on this one...My wife has told me that she'll be behind me nomatter what...

and Scott...I have been keeping up with that thread on LutherQuest (Thank you very much for that BTW)...It's just so much more involved than anyone can imagine...I'm not worried about threats or job recriminations or the like...quite honestly Masons just don't do that sort of thing anymore...but they did say that Masonry isn't suppose to take the place of your Church so maybe that's the answer there...

just thinking out loud...don't mind me...i'm just being confused...

Anything I can do to help. If we didn't think aloud every now and again, no one would post on CF.

[Flipper]

Gosh Redneck, I thought you were LCMS already, so I would think it would be a good fit for you then.

Whateveryone else says about the Masons.

[RedneckAnglican]

Anything I can do to help. If we didn't think aloud every now and again, no one would post on CF.

I appreciate it...I appreciate everything that everyone has already done...the Masonry thing is one thing...I don't participate anymore anyway...I'm just not sure if I'm ready to give up on the ELCA, yet...My old Church is falling apart...The Congregational President and his family have left the Church...the Pastor is leaving the Church...These were two of my best friends and they have given up on the ELCA...I read the stuff that Dan posted and he makes A LOT of sence...I'm just not sure yet...maybe I'm just using Masonry as a crutch...maybe I'm just not ready, yet...but I've got to be honest...the battle is making me very tired...

Is it possible to love CHRIST and not be involved in the politics?...or are these more than political issues?...It can be argued that most of the problems I'm having are doctrinal issues, and not political issues...heck ...I thinking I'm thinking Missouri already...

[ctay]

Have you visited a LCMS church already?

[RedneckAnglican]

Have you visited a LCMS church already?

several...you want the whole list or just the top ten?...:D

The one I have the appointment at also has a Lutheran school attached that we want to send our son to...really good school...and within our budget!...it's only 10 minutes from our house...the ELCaAChurch we are going to is 30 minutes with no traffic (which doesn't happen in San Antonio much)...

[LutherNut]

Is it possible to love CHRIST and not be involved in the politics?...or are these more than political issues?...It can be argued that most of the problems I'm having are doctrinal issues, and not political issues...heck ...I thinking I'm thinking Missouri already...

It's the politics that has led to the downfall of the ELCA. Their politics has led to their doctrinal strife and their outright rejection of the Word of God on so many issues.

Yes, you can love Christ and not be involved in the politics, but when the politics influences the doctrine that you are asked to confess, then one must put the Word of God above all.

This is why the LCMS rejects the Masons and other lodges. They (Masons) require you to make a confession that is against the Word of God.

Look to see where your heart truly lies. Is it in line with God's will as revealed to us in His Word? Apart from that, nothing else matters.

We all continue to pray for you.


Jay:prayer:

[mmckeen]

I'm I so glad I found this forum. I have also been having a discussion with my family about our ELCA church. I have exchanged several emails with both of our Pastors and the general positions they are taking are:
Jesus is a Son of God but certainly not THE Son of God.
Everyone is saved, regardless of what you believe.
It's all "about deeds not creeds"
The Bible is a nice book to read but it is open to individual interpretation (and a lot of it is in error).
I am called intolerate because I trust the Bible as TRUE, that Jesus is my ONE True Savior, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him.
My son was baptised in a LCMS church we actually started in St. Louis. I was raised LCA. Being Lutheran is what I am but defending the Truth is ultimately driving my conviction. I am so sad to see so many people in my church believing all of this. Even this Sunday they encouraged us to go hear a professor from UNC talk about the "legends" of the Bible. The speaker wrote the book "Misquoting Jesus". This is probably what will finally push me out of the ELCA.

[porterross]

mmckeen
We must all pray that those allowing the Church to move away from the Scriptures and our Doctrine. :prayer:

These things you have listed as those statements of believe are not of Christ and it is so sad to see the ELCA going in the direction it is, but it seems to be going the way of Liberal society which saddens me deeply.:(

My pastor said even tonight that he feared one day in the near future the Scripture itself may not be spoken freely in this country. What is America coming to? Are we to become the very type of Christian scorning country that we were formed to escape from? As liberals demand more freedom from Christ's presence in our society, we Christians lose more of our rights to express our beliefs. This is indeed worrisome.

The only positive that I can imagine all this is that as the world turns it back on God, the time of His return draws nearer. In this, we Christians can find peace and joy.

I will pray for you and your church and that God leads you to a congregation firmly rooted in the Word of God. Being raised in the Missouri Synod, I cannot empathise with you, but being removed from God for too many years, I can tell you of the joy of being part of a family that delights in the Word again.

Peace in your heart and welcome.
:hug:

[mmckeen]

mmckeen
We must all pray that those allowing the Church to move away from the Scriptures and our Doctrine. :prayer:

These things you have listed as those statements of believe are not of Christ and it is so sad to see the ELCA going in the direction it is, but it seems to be going the way of Liberal society which saddens me deeply.:(

My pastor said even tonight that he feared one day in the near future the Scripture itself may not be spoken freely in this country. What is America coming to? Are we to become the very type of Christian scorning country that we were formed to escape from? As liberals demand more freedom from Christ's presence in our society, we Christians lose more of our rights to express our beliefs. This is indeed worrisome.

The only positive that I can imagine all this is that as the world turns it back on God, the time of His return draws nearer. In this, we Christians can find peace and joy.

I will pray for you and your church and that God leads you to a congregation firmly rooted in the Word of God. Being raised in the Missouri Synod, I cannot empathise with you, but being removed from God for too many years, I can tell you of the joy of being part of a family that delights in the Word again.

Peace in your heart and welcome.
:hug:
Well we are going to visit a different church this weekend. I think we are going to go back to the LCMS. I just feel drawn in my heart back to the core of my beliefs and that they may represent that the best, certainly better than my current ECLA church. I am sad for them and pray for them. They are being misled (IMO) and I am concerned for them.

Am I wrong to walk out? Should I stay and try to fight the good fight? I don't like to "cut and run" but I know I am not being "fed" there and I truly need that. :pray:

[mmckeen]

Sorry for the double post. I am trying to figure out how to delete it. I appologize.

[Protoevangel]

Am I wrong to walk out? Should I stay and try to fight the good fight? I don't like to "cut and run" but I know I am not being "fed" there and I truly need that. :pray:
I would encourage you to find a congregation that teaches the truth.

I sent my resignation letter to the pastor at my old ELCA church this past Wednesday.

Pastor Tom,

I request to be removed from all Zion membership references. In addition, if there is a process I must follow to be removed from membership in the ELCA, I would appreciate it if you would inform me of what I must do to have this done.

I want to make it clear that leaving is not a decision that comes easily. I have no hard feelings against you or anyone at Zion, or the ELCA, for that matter. My reason for leaving is purely doctrinal in nature. I have known that this was the right decision for me for the past couple of years, yet I have stayed against my conscience, and I regret that it created such stress for me, that I lashed out time and again, hurting you and others. Please forgive me for this sin. I have attached a document further explaining where I stand, and why I cannot continueto be affiliated with the ELCA.

The people of Zion are still in my heart. My prayer for the Church is that we all embrace correct doctrine, so that we may at last be one in faith and united in Christ, here on Earth. As that does not seem to be the direction we are heading, I still expect to see you in Heaven, if I do not see you before then.

God Bless,
Dan

I Confess…
Daniel M. Head

Preamble:
Everyone has their own confession of faith. Some don’t know or understand what their confession is, and some keep their confession secret, but do not be fooled, everyone believes something. The Church has always been based upon Christ, and those who are of the Church were... are... of one accord; of one faith. As I declare my confession publicly, I invite correction. If my confession is to be found in error, I pray that God suppress my sinful nature that is so often expressed as pride, so that I may admit my error, repent, and confess only the Truth.

I believe that the Historic, Confessional Doctrines of the Evangelical Lutheran Church to be the truest reflection of Christian Truth, therefore, let the following be my public confession.

Holy Scripture
Holy Scripture is the inspired, infallible, and inerrant Word of God; the only norm and source for faith andteaching. All that is taught therein is necessary to a true understanding of doctrine and saving faith. Holy Scripture is to be interpreted literally; as per the literature form (prose as prose, poetry as poetry, apocalyptic as apocalyptic). Either to take allegorically what is written as literal (ex. Genesis/Creation story), or to take literally what is written as allegory (The thousand years of the millennium), is to do violence to Holy Scripture, and cannot be condoned.

Holy Baptism
Through the Sacrament of Holy Baptism, we are regenerated through the water by God’s Word and reborn as children of God through the Saving Faith given by the Holy Ghost. Children are to be baptized who, being offered to God through Baptism are received into God's Grace. The teaching that Baptism is other than the very Salvific Grace of God in the water by the Word, and the teaching that children are not to be Baptized until some unscriptural “age of accountability” are false and reprehensible. The True Church cannot be in fellowship with any “church” which teaches falsely concerning the Holy Sacrament.

The Lord's Supper
The true Body and Blood of Christ is present, in, with, and under the bread and wine. In this Holy meal, we are assured of the forgiveness of sin. The reception of Holy Communion is an act of fellowship with the Triune God, wherein we gather with other believers who are one in faith and doctrine. Only those who are one in faith and accept the doctrine of faith as set forth in the Holy Scriptures and the Confessions should commune together (close communion). The practice of open communion is a recent innovation that has no place in the life of the Church, and endangers those who would partake without recognizing the body. The True Church cannot be in fellowship with any “church” or individual who teaches falsly regarding this Holy Sacrament.

Private Confession
As stated in the Augsburg Confession, the Smalcald Articles, and explained in the Small Catechism, private confession should be retained, and should not be neglected, but greatly and highly esteemed in the church.

Sanctity of Life
Scripture clearly and consistently upholds the sanctity of human life. The taking of human life beyond that which is authorized by God is an act of evil. All human life has intrinsic value, and God calls upon us to protect the helpless. Because abortion results in the death of a helpless unborn person, it is never justified except in those rare and tragic circumstances when the continuation of the pregnancy would clearly threaten the life of the mother. Any other attempt to end the life of another (or of self) is equally evil, such as suicide, euthanasia, or the withholding of primary needs (food, water, basic medical care).

Creeds & Confessions
As an evangelical catholic, orthodox/confessional Lutheran, I accept the Lutheran Confessions contained in the Book of Concord, because (quia) they are a faithful and accurate summary of Biblical doctrine. These symbols are not a rule of faith beyond or supplementary to Scripture, but a summary of Scripture and the doctrines of the church catholic.

Marks of the Church
The true Church exists where the Holy Gospel is taught and preached in its truth and purity, and where the Holy Sacraments are rightly administered. Where the Sacraments are not, there the church is not. Where the Word of God is corrupted, the church is absent.

The Mass
The Mass should be retained. In its truest form, the Mass is as old as the Church Herself. Indeed, in the words of the Augsburg Confession, “the Mass is retained among us, and celebrated with the highest reverence.”

Knowledge of the Truth
It is possible to both know and to profess the truth of God's Word, and this is exactly what God requires us to do. Taking a confessional stand on the Word in matters of doctrine, after diligent study of Scriptures, is an act not of human pride but of humble submission to God.

Human Sexuality and Marriage
The Divine institution of marriage is described in the Bible as between a man and a woman. The only sexual relationships that are consistent with Scripture occur lovingly within this Holy bond. Anything that falls outside of this order is sinful.

Roles of men and women in the home and in Church
God created man and woman in his own image. In 1 Corinthians 15:28, the Son is said to be subject to the Father, this is not a state of inferiority, but of order. Neither is the order of family life a statement of superiority and inferiority, with the woman submitting to the husband, and the husband loving and serving his wife as Christ loves and serves the Church. The same order is present in God’s plan for the Church, God has stated through His servants, roles of man and woman in His Church. This is not a statement of ability or of superiority/inferiority, but of order. The Church stops being the Church when it discounts God’s Word and implements its own order contrary to that Word.

Tradition:
Only those “traditions” which are in contradiction to Scripture should be eliminated from the Church. All traditions that can be kept should be kept. Those traditions that are adiaphora should always be kept in preference over novel practices, unless doing so would be sinful or extremely burdensome. "Inasmuch, then, as our churches dissent in no article of the faith from the Church Catholic, but only omit some abuses which are new, and which have been erroneously accepted by the corruption of the times, contrary to the intent of the Canons..." - AC, and “...without a reasonable cause nothing in customary rites be changed, but that, in order to cherish harmony, such old customs be observed as can be observed without sin or without great inconvenience.” – Apology

Conclusion:
No longer may I, in good conscience, knowingly associate with any church that teaches contrary to correct doctrine, for by doing so I make myself a liar, and bring guilt upon myself. It is neither loving God or neighbor to accommodate the teaching of false doctrine. Let this be my confession in life, and God willing, May I one day stand before the Throne of the Lamb and confess the same. Amen!

[mmckeen]

I would encourage you to find a congregation that teaches the truth.

I sent my resignation letter to the pastor at my old ELCA church this past Wednesday.
Dear Dan,

Thank you for sharing this. I appreciate the efforts and "pain" I assume went with leaving your home church but I fully understand the need to be honest with your beliefs.

I will let you know how my search goes if you don't mind. I am blessed to have a forum like this where I can be exposed to people that are willing to provide wisdom, guidance, and support.

God Bless you...

[Jim47]

I would encourage you to find a congregation that teaches the truth.

I sent my resignation letter to the pastor at my old ELCA church this past Wednesday.



Hi Dan

I've been looking for just the right words to say, but I can't find them.

So I will simply say .. Go in peace brother-and God be with you.

I hope more people are given the courage to follow your steps and seek the truth.

[RedneckAnglican]

I would encourage you to find a congregation that teaches the truth.

I'm going to still try to force the system...I have joined WordAlone and the Lutheran CoRe...I (perhaps naively) still think that the ELCA can be brought back from the brink...There are a lot of us...and the ELCA is starting to figure that out...we'll see...as I have posted previously I am tired of Church hopping...so I'm going to try to fight...GOD bless us all...

[Jim47]

I'm going to still try to force the system...I have joined WordAlone and the Lutheran CoRe...I (perhaps naively) still think that the ELCA can be brought back from the brink...There are a lot of us...and the ELCA is starting to figure that out...we'll see...as I have posted previously I am tired of Church hopping...so I'm going to try to fight...GOD bless us all...


MayThe Good Lord be with you Ken. I hope it works. :thumbsup:

[RedneckAnglican]

MayThe Good Lord be with you Ken. I hope it works. :thumbsup:

I hope it works, too...Thank you...I have every reason to believe it will...esp. considering we're right...

[porterross]

There you stand, eh, Ken?

Good luck, Brother. :thumbsup:

[ContraMundum]

I did a similar thing to Dan when I left the Lutheran church. Boy, was it hard. God bless you all.

[ctay]

Good Luck Dan in whatever you do....

[SPALATIN]

Leaving a church is never easy, but as Martin Luther said to the diet at Worms,

"Unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason—I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other—my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe." According to tradition, Luther is then said to have spoken these words: "Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen"[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther#endnote_Bainton_142).

I see that what Dan is doing to be close to what Luther did. Dan has gone against his conscience for too long and it has stressed him.

If you are considering leaving your current church for another, be honest with yourself about the reasons you are leaving.