Support Needed from Fellow Lutherans

[porterross]

Fellow Lutherans.
I am new to these forums and very much relieved to have found this site and especially this area specifically for conservative Lutherans.
I was raised in the LCMS and after many years of making mistakes and experiencing what the corporeal world has to offer, I know in my heart that I took being raised in such a wonderful religion for granted and turned my back on my devotion for a great many years.
Marrying a non-believer was a mistake and I have paid dearly for that mistake. Except for the beautiful child that this union produced, it was disastrous and I struggled for years to overcome the damage I allowed myself to be subjected to.

My point to this post is a quest for opinions and perspectives from those of you who perhaps made better choices and never allowed your life within the Church to fade from importance in your life AND from those who's circumstances may be similar to mine.

My child and I are beginning to attend church now and I want so much to have a conversation with our pastor (whom I've know most of my life) and express my regrets and desire to be a devout Lutheran again, but I am so afraid of being judged harshly by those in the congregation who have not made the same kind of personal mistakes. This concerns me because as a child I remember the conversations of the adults in the church about members who had been divorced and it they were judged very harshly.

My mistakes are my own, but I wish to commit myself to embracing my religion and changing my life for the better on the spiritual level for both myself and my child without having to answer too many uncomfortable questions regarding my absence form the Church.

Your opinions and guidance are heartily welcome.

[LilLamb219]

Yikes! Lutherans not making mistakes?? Can't happen!

I've made my share of mistakes and I can bet that every single person in that congregation has made their share as well. Don't avoid going to church to receive God's gifts because of other people. They'll most likely be happy to see you there worshipping with them.

:)

I'm married to a Roman Catholic and have endured some hard times in the struggle of our child and her religious upbringing. In a way I regret not marrying a Lutheran, but in another way, I have a wonderful child who understands God's grace and is able to share it with her friends...even though my husband insists she goes to church with him :( That is my woe!! But, she has learned from me about by grace through faith because I've told everyone that when she asks questions, I'll teach her from the Bible. ;) And I have!

Glad to have you here at the board!

[ctay]

I've got about the same story you do. I was raised in an LCMS church, got married, got out of going to church for many years. I wouldn't say my husband is a non believer, he has a problem with "churches", he's a cynical person. I've been trying to get back into church for a few years, decided to try a different church, still a LCMS Church, I've been going to church regular now for almost a year now. Hopefully if I keep going, hubby will join me.

[Jim47]

Welcome to the forum.

I understand your fear, I think we all harbor fears of sins we have committed, but I can assure you that your Pastor and church will welcome you with open arms.

In my church we have been working on some members who haven't been there in along time, and we are always over joyed when someone starts coming.

[Flipper]

Read my signature. Our pastor acutally had a sermon on it last week (walked around with a lincoln log stuck to his face). If they are a worthy congregation of your presence, they will welcome you back with open arms.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Read my signature. Our pastor acutally had a sermon on it last week (walked around with a lincoln log stuck to his face). If they are a worthy congregation of your presence, they will welcome you back with open arms.

Very good Flip---hit the nail on the head. :)

porterross you are excedingly welcome here. Ever hear of the prodigal son or our sins are forgiven as far as the east is from the west?

Anyway I was in the same situation for MANY years. Even so far as to get involved in transendental meditation, white whitchcraft, astral projection, being an outlaw biker, totally ruined my marriage by drinking and cheating on my wife. God has forgiven me so that my sins are totally forgotten and I even sometimes find it hard to believe. After all "My grace is sufficient for thee and my strength is made perfect in your weakness". THere are some of us that were TOTALLY unworthy but God does loves us and we are His by His grace and mercy.......AMEN:amen:

[porterross]

I'm married to a Roman Catholic and have endured some hard times in the struggle of our child and her religious upbringing. In a way I regret not marrying a Lutheran, but in another way, I have a wonderful child who understands God's grace and is able to share it with her friends...even though my husband insists she goes to church with him :( That is my woe!! But, she has learned from me about by grace through faith because I've told everyone that when she asks questions, I'll teach her from the Bible. ;) And I have!

Glad to have you here at the board!

Thanks LilLamb
Your kind words mean more to me than you realize. God bless you in guiding your daughter's faith.


I've got about the same story you do. I was raised in an LCMS church, got married, got out of going to church for many years. I wouldn't say my husband is a non believer, he has a problem with "churches", he's a cynical person. I've been trying to get back into church for a few years, decided to try a different church, still a LCMS Church, I've been going to church regular now for almost a year now. Hopefully if I keep going, hubby will join me.


It's not easy to share with someone who's beliefs are different from your own, but I admire your determination to attend for your own sake. Being away from the Church and actually removed from God's Word made me increasingly cynical, so I'll pray that your husband one day realizes this as well.
P.S. The hypocrisy of many self-proclaimed devout Christians aided my absence from worship.



Welcome to the forum.

I understand your fear, I think we all harbor fears of sins we have committed, but I can assure you that your Pastor and church will welcome you with open arms.

In my church we have been working on some members who haven't been there in along time, and we are always over joyed when someone starts coming.


Thanks Jim.
My pastor causes me no fear whatsoever. He is actually a retired exec. who is taking in part in the program that allows ordination by means of distance learning and annual class attendance for a short time at the seminary. I know there's a name for this program, but it escapes me.
This is a small community with a membership of less than 50 people and the Church cannot call a pastor with a guarantee of adequate financial support. Our pastor is truly a kind and good-hearted man with whom I have no reservations of sharing my thoughts.



Read my signature. Our pastor acutally had a sermon on it last week (walked around with a lincoln log stuck to his face). If they are a worthy congregation of your presence, they will welcome you back with open arms.



You're absolutley right, Flipper, but reading the passages in the Bible that are most definite on divorce are intimidating when you think about who within the Church might be making the decision about whether or not I can marry in the Church again. Beyond that, would a devout Lutheran man see me as tainted given the literal meaning of the Bible? It's all very scary when thinking about the future and the possibilty of happiness.



Thank you all so much for your kind words of support and encouragement. I know I've been through what must be the hardest part of returning to my faith, but I need to know that I am not alone in fearing what's yet to come.

God bless you all.

[porterross]

Very good Flip---hit the nail on the head. :)

porterross you are excedingly welcome here. Ever hear of the prodigal son or our sins are forgiven as far as the east is from the west?

Anyway I was in the same situation for MANY years. Even so far as to get involved in transendental meditation, white whitchcraft, astral projection, being an outlaw biker, totally ruined my marriage by drinking and cheating on my wife. God has forgiven me so that my sins are totally forgotten and I even sometimes find it hard to believe. After all "My grace is sufficient for thee and my strength is made perfect in your weakness". THere are some of us that were TOTALLY unworthy but God does loves us and we are His by His grace and mercy.......AMEN:amen:



Wow, Rad. Good for you in finding your way home.

I know full well that God will forgive me and accept me back home with open arms. I think about the Prodigal Son often as a matter of fact.
My biggest concern is that of being devoted daily to improving my life here on Earth by being more kind to others and myself, being the mother my daughter deserves, and making a habit of being a true Christian knowing that it is the only way to have the joyous and peaceful life that I long for.

Thank you for sharing your story with me.

[SPALATIN]

Fellow Lutherans.
I am new to these forums and very much relieved to have found this site and especially this area specifically for conservative Lutherans.
I was raised in the LCMS and after many years of making mistakes and experiencing what the corporeal world has to offer, I know in my heart that I took being raised in such a wonderful religion for granted and turned my back on my devotion for a great many years.
Marrying a non-believer was a mistake and I have paid dearly for that mistake. Except for the beautiful child that this union produced, it was disastrous and I struggled for years to overcome the damage I allowed myself to be subjected to.

My point to this post is a quest for opinions and perspectives from those of you who perhaps made better choices and never allowed your life within the Church to fade from importance in your life AND from those who's circumstances may be similar to mine.

My child and I are beginning to attend church now and I want so much to have a conversation with our pastor (whom I've know most of my life) and express my regrets and desire to be a devout Lutheran again, but I am so afraid of being judged harshly by those in the congregation who have not made the same kind of personal mistakes. This concerns me because as a child I remember the conversations of the adults in the church about members who had been divorced and it they were judged very harshly.

My mistakes are my own, but I wish to commit myself to embracing my religion and changing my life for the better on the spiritual level for both myself and my child without having to answer too many uncomfortable questions regarding my absence form the Church.

Your opinions and guidance are heartily welcome.

As someone who has made his share of mistakes in the corporeal world I can empathize with you. Make an appointment with your pastor and discuss these things with him . He is obligated to keep the "confession" to himself. I would be surprised if he turned his back on you because his job is to help you be restored to the fold. Go to him penitent and remorseful for where you have been (much like the prodigal son).

God has already welcomed you back. Pray before going to him that God will soften the Pastor's heart and after you have spoken to him ask him to help you return to a life of faith.

I can't speak for every LCMS Pastor out there, but the one's I have known and whom I hope to emulate care very much for those who have left the congregation. When they come back it is even sweeter. In fact, they should kill the fatted calf and throw a celebration for every prodigal that returns to the fold and if when I become a pastor I am going to do just that.

I hope this helps even if just a little.


P.S.

Hey everyone maybe we should start a tradition in our churches whereby we have a fellowship party for any prodigal child upon their return to fellowship. Make it a barbeque or dinner or hey even a good egg bake breakfast and welcome them back by running to them at the moment you spot them walking up the drive. We need to rejoice when they return for as the father in the parable of the lost son said "he was dead and is alive again, he was lost and now is found."

We can call them "Welcome Home" celebrations.

[Flipper]

but reading the passages in the Bible that are most definite on divorce are intimidating when you think about who within the Church might be making the decision about whether or not I can marry in the Church again. Beyond that, would a devout Lutheran man see me as tainted given the literal meaning of the Bible? It's all very scary when thinking about the future and the possibilty of happiness.

I hope you aren't reading down in the marriage forum. They (as in the few who post regularly) take a very, how do I say it, harsh view on those who divorce, and even worse if they remarry - regardless if it was for a strict-interpretation Biblical reason or not. They don't even believe that one should be happy in a marriage. It's a tough subject because it's law being used in the NT. If it's in the OT, you can make a case for OT law transgressions being washed away with Christ's blood. Little hard to do it it's in the NT, and it came from Jesus Himself. Even so, I firmly believe that this is another example of where Grace comes into play.

I still don't think it's our place to judge - none of us are without sin, and I'm sure all of us have repeated sins. I know people in their second marriages who are involved in church, and I know people in their second marriages who would never have come back to church if it weren't for the Holy Spirit working through the second spouse. The only thing I don't think you could do is become a pastor - because they should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us. However, I don't see why you can't do anything else within the church, including remarry.

If you are looking for technical reasons, if your first wife was an unbeliever - many pastors will take the interpretation that divorce is acceptable - it is in the Bible, but I don't have it in front of me to look up the passage. I just think your reasons are your own, and I just pray that you can get back into church and into a Christ-centered relationship.

[Flipper]

P.S.

Hey everyone maybe we should start a tradition in our churches whereby we have a fellowship party for any prodigal child upon their return to fellowship. Make it a barbeque or dinner or hey even a good egg bake breakfast and welcome them back by running to them at the moment you spot them walking up the drive. We need to rejoice when they return for as the father in the parable of the lost son said "he was dead and is alive again, he was lost and now is found."

We can call them "Welcome Home" celebrations.

I'll bring the Beer!! :clap:

[SPALATIN]

You're absolutley right, Flipper, but reading the passages in the Bible that are most definite on divorce are intimidating when you think about who within the Church might be making the decision about whether or not I can marry in the Church again. Beyond that, would a devout Lutheran man see me as tainted given the literal meaning of the Bible? It's all very scary when thinking about the future and the possibilty of happiness.


A quick little thing on those verses on marriage in Matthew. Jesus is speaking to those in the crowd who divorce without cause here. Many of the Jewish leaders were giving their wives certificates of divorce for reasons other than the ones Jesus specified. He knew this and threw the true essence of the law back at them.

If you consider the essence of your marriage you said that you married an unbeliever which caused many problems for you. Did he abuse you physically, verbally, mentally? Did he withhold things you were entitled to in your marriage?

The Good news is that Christ died for the sins committed in that marriage and divorce. While you can not go back and repair the damage that led to the divorce you can be remorseful that it ended the way it did and pray for forgiveness. God will forgive you.

The Lutheran Church is not the Roman Catholic Church. Divorce is not a barrier to getting remarried. I will advise though that the next time you are prepared to make that step in your life that you and your future husband seek pre-marital counseling to know that you are both spiritually compatible as well as your mutual physical and mental attraction to each other.

[porterross]

A quick little thing on those verses on marriage in Matthew. Jesus is speaking to those in the crowd who divorce without cause here. Many of the Jewish leaders were giving their wives certificates of divorce for reasons other than the ones Jesus specified. He knew this and threw the true essence of the law back at them.

If you consider the essence of your marriage you said that you married an unbeliever which caused many problems for you. Did he abuse you physically, verbally, mentally? Did he withhold things you were entitled to in your marriage?

The Good news is that Christ died for the sins committed in that marriage and divorce. While you can not go back and repair the damage that led to the divorce you can be remorseful that it ended the way it did and pray for forgiveness. God will forgive you.

The Lutheran Church is not the Roman Catholic Church. Divorce is not a barrier to getting remarried. I will advise though that the next time you are prepared to make that step in your life that you and your future husband seek pre-marital counseling to know that you are both spiritually compatible as well as your mutual physical and mental attraction to each other.



SPALATIN
Great words of encouragement and support. Thank you.
The abuse we (my daughter & I) encountered was more of the passive aggressive type.
My ex husband, although highly educated, refused to pursue jobs that made use of his education and research background after being dismissed from a position at his alma mater. The reasons for this dismissal were never made clear to me and even worse, the fact that he was dismissed only became known to me after paying the monthly bills to discover there was not direct deposit that month. Can you imagine? No income and no warning that the end to a salary was coming.

He was never much help around the house to begin with, always spent more money than he made and lied about it, but having no motivation to work and provide any income for the family was the beginning of the road to the end for me. He is now mostly supported by the woman he lives with, which is I suppose exactly all he desires. He makes no attempt to contact his daughter.

So you tell me, does a man who makes his family feel unloved and unwanted and refuses to support them financially warrant divorcing?

Things were going from bad to worse and he was doing things to purposely sabotage our household on more levels than I wish to go into here, but I had to accept that we could not go on under the conditions he was determined to have us in. I begged him to get counseling in the hopes that whatever was bothering him could be helped by a mental health professional, but he absolutely refused. So for the sake of my child and our future, I broke my legal ties to him.

Is it a sin to refuse to be dragged into an emotional abyss and financial ruin with someone who's obviously determined to go there themselves and drag those with them that they have declared no care for?

Physical abuse and infidelity are not the only destructive forces in a marriage, especially when the offending spouse refuses to recognize the damage they're doing.

Thanks for letting me ramble. :sorry:

[SPALATIN]

SPALATIN
Great words of encouragement and support. Thank you.
The abuse we (my daughter & I) encountered was more of the passive aggressive type.
My ex husband, although highly educated, refused to pursue jobs that made use of his education and research background after being dismissed from a position at his alma mater. The reasons for this dismissal were never made clear to me and even worse, the fact that he was dismissed only became known to me after paying the monthly bills to discover there was not direct deposit that month. Can you imagine? No income and no warning that the end to a salary was coming.

He was never much help around the house to begin with, always spent more money than he made and lied about it, but having no motivation to work and provide any income for the family was the beginning of the road to the end for me. He is now mostly supported by the woman he lives with, which is I suppose exactly all he desires. He makes no attempt to contact his daughter.

So you tell me, does a man who makes his family feel unloved and unwanted and refuses to support them financially warrant divorcing?

Things were going from bad to worse and he was doing things to purposely sabotage our household on more levels than I wish to go into here, but I had to accept that we could not go on under the conditions he was determined to have us in. I begged him to get counseling in the hopes that whatever was bothering him could be helped by a mental health professional, but he absolutely refused. So for the sake of my child and our future, I broke my legal ties to him.

Is it a sin to refuse to be dragged into an emotional abyss and financial ruin with someone who's obviously determined to go there themselves and drag those with them that they have declared no care for?

Physical abuse and infidelity are not the only destructive forces in a marriage, especially when the offending spouse refuses to recognize the damage they're doing.

Thanks for letting me ramble. :sorry:

I would say that financial and social abandonment were the reasons you could say were proper reasons for divorce in your case. From what you tell me he seems to be clinically depressed, but then again I am not a psychologist.

You are always welcome to ramble on with me. :)

[C.F.W. Walther]

You're absolutley right, Flipper, but reading the passages in the Bible that are most definite on divorce are intimidating when you think about who within the Church might be making the decision about whether or not I can marry in the Church again. Beyond that, would a devout Lutheran man see me as tainted given the literal meaning of the Bible? It's all very scary when thinking about the future and the possibilty of happiness.



I went through the same thing on getting remarried after a divorce. I first asked my pastor if it was allright to get remarried after leaving my wife and he said if I was truly repentent and was truly sorry for my sins then I could. This is from a very confessional, conservative minister in the church. The key here is truly repentent as is discribed in this exegitical study done for LCMS in 1987:

"The question remains, however, whether the pastor may announce God's forgiveness where genuine repentance appears to be in evidence. To deny such persons the assurance of God's pardon would be to limit the atoning work of Jesus Christ, in whom there is forgiveness for all sins. No matter how heinously a person has sinned, Jesus atoned for all sin, also for the sin of adultery (1 Cor. 6:9-11). He received many gross sinners in His day, also adulterers. He was always willing to receive any and every repentant sinner. It is difficult to imagine our Lord turning away one broken by the accusations of the law and desirous of God's mercy and help. "Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (Rom. 5:20). The words of Jesus to the adulterous woman in John 8 "neither do I condemn you," reveals that the grace of God covers also this sin. Jesus then proceeds to tell the woman, "Go, and do not sin again," that is, she is now to give evidence of her repentance.
It is within the context of these words of Jesus, which are typical of His approach to matters of this kind, that the request of divorced persons desiring remarriage must be evaluated and a response given that is in harmony with what the Scriptures teach regarding repentance and the forgiveness of sins. In cases of the remarriage of persons divorced for reasons not Biblically sanctioned, true repentance would presuppose a genuine desire to reconcile with one's estranged spouse. It is difficult to imagine, for example, how genuine contrition can exist or how absolution can be announced when there is present a refusal to seek healing. Where the refusal to reconcile and to seek healing is judged to be absent insofar as such a judgment is possible the pastor will be constrained to deny a request for remarriage.
There are circumstances, however, where there are reasons to believe that true repentance is indeed present but where reconciliation and restoration of a broken marriage simply are not possible, either because the former spouse has remarried or is unwilling to be reconciled. In such cases, remarriage becomes a possibility. Considerable caution must be exercised by pastors, however, lest what may be considered possible under exceptional circumstances come to be interpreted as license to disregard God's will in this regard. By no means may encouragement be given to go on sinning "that grace may abound." (Rom. 6:1-2) What has been said above about the remarriage of persons divorced for unscriptural reasons may also be applied to the acquiring and holding of membership in the Christian congregation. Christian discipline in the congregation must be exercised in a firm, loving, and consistent manner, lest the offense of unrepented sin cause others to stumble. "

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/mosynod/web/divrem-2.html#sum


I had extensive discussions with members of other denoms and they were of the opinion that I could not remarry. They all based this on the full observation of the law and not the Grace and mercy of God. Charismatic, A&G, pentecostal and other evangelical churches believe like the jewish people that strict observance of the law is what saves and not the Gospel (grace) of God. Somewhat similar to the goods works of the RC church.

Unfortunately if you ask questions about remarriage, if you didn't get a biblical divorce, outside of the LCMS and talk to other Lutheran denoms you might get different answers.

[porterross]

"The question remains, however, whether the pastor may announce God's forgiveness where genuine repentance appears to be in evidence. To deny such persons the assurance of God's pardon would be to limit the atoning work of Jesus Christ, in whom there is forgiveness for all sins. No matter how heinously a person has sinned, Jesus atoned for all sin, also for the sin of adultery (1 Cor. 6:9-11). He received many gross sinners in His day, also adulterers. He was always willing to receive any and every repentant sinner. It is difficult to imagine our Lord turning away one broken by the accusations of the law and desirous of God's mercy and help. "Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (Rom. 5:20). The words of Jesus to the adulterous woman in John 8 "neither do I condemn you," reveals that the grace of God covers also this sin. Jesus then proceeds to tell the woman, "Go, and do not sin again," that is, she is now to give evidence of her repentance.



The recognition and acceptance of my own responsibility in what was brought on by my own bad choices was my epiphany. Acknowledging that first and foremost I had turned away from God, leading to the "snowball effect of sin", as it were, was the beginning of my penitence and the long, painful, liberating conversations with my Father.

God never lost faith in me finding my way home and I don't ever want to even think about wandering off again. The pain of being lost was too great and the joy of being home again is too overwhelming to ever consider giving up.

I am truly blessed. :amen:

[ctay]

One good thing, even though my husband won't go to church with me, he doesn't tell me not to go. He's hard to talk to about why he won't go, he gets defensive. All I feel I can do right now is set a good example and invite him, he has come with me a few times. I just hope and pray he'll start going regular one day. He was brought up in a Baptist church.

[porterross]

[quote=Flipper]I hope you aren't reading down in the marriage forum. They (as in the few who post regularly) take a very, how do I say it, harsh view on those who divorce, and even worse if they remarry - regardless if it was for a strict-interpretation Biblical reason or not. They don't even believe that one should be happy in a marriage. It's a tough subject because it's law being used in the NT. If it's in the OT, you can make a case for OT law transgressions being washed away with Christ's blood. Little hard to do it it's in the NT, and it came from Jesus Himself. Even so, I firmly believe that this is another example of where Grace comes into play.
quote]


Flipper
I didn't know there was a marriage forum until you mentioned it, but there is a section there specifically for divorce issues. Seems there are a number of posters there who are just now going through the pain of divorce so maybe I can help some of them.

Fortunately enough time has passed (7 years) that the sting of the divorce itself and the blame I placed on my ex for the damage caused has long been let go. My focus has been protecting and educating my daughter and getting us to a level of financial soundness so life is not stressful on that level. So far so good.

I can't imagine anyone not wanting a joyous marriage. That is my goal, but I have time to find it and until my daughter leaves for college, there are so many other prioroities.

Guess I'll have to lurk over there to see some of these extreme views on marriage without suffering being a bad thing. How sad.

Do you think that maybe those folks are some of those over the top Christians like the crazy Christian woman on wife swap? That's the first image that popped in my mind when I read your description of their views on marriage.:P

P.S.
What kind of beer were you planning to bring to BBQ?
I think those kind of feasts are a great idea!
Prodigal Pot Lucks ;)

[porterross]

One good thing, even though my husband won't go to church with me, he doesn't tell me not to go. He's hard to talk to about why he won't go, he gets defensive. All I feel I can do right now is set a good example and invite him, he has come with me a few times. I just hope and pray he'll start going regular one day. He was brought up in a Baptist church.



ctay
Yes. It could be worse for you, but maybe God will find the door to his heart again. It does make you wonder why he feels the way he does, doesn't it. Unfortunately, the high level of hypocrisy among very vocal church goers undoes the desires of a great many would-be members. I'll keep you in my prayers. :pray:

[Protoevangel]

Ctay, don't give up! I was just like your husband for the first many years of my marriage. My wife never pushed, but like you, simply invited me occasionally. She got her friends at church to pray for me, and was patient. Now look what it got her! ;) lol

Porterross, Yes, it is unfortunate that so many allow the hypocracy of others to keep them from where they need to be. Welcome back!

[ctay]

He does like this pastor though. I'm going to try to get him to come to some of the lenten services, I'm going to invite him anyway. I'm helping with sunday school and he won't come and meet me up there for church, he'll come sometimes if there's no Sunday school. Thanks for the prayers.

[SPALATIN]

ctay
Yes. It could be worse for you, but maybe God will find the door to his heart again. It does make you wonder why he feels the way he does, doesn't it. Unfortunately, the high level of hypocrisy among very vocal church goers undoes the desires of a great many would-be members. I'll keep you in my prayers. :pray:

ctay,

It could be that your husband is afraid that he might be changed by going to often and he doesn't want to change his views at this time.

Scott

[Jim47]

One good thing, even though my husband won't go to church with me, he doesn't tell me not to go. He's hard to talk to about why he won't go, he gets defensive. All I feel I can do right now is set a good example and invite him, he has come with me a few times. I just hope and pray he'll start going regular one day. He was brought up in a Baptist church.


Don't give up CTAY, if he gets defensive he probably feels guilty, and thats a good thing. :thumbsup:

[RedneckAnglican]

He does like this pastor though. I'm going to try to get him to come to some of the lenten services, I'm going to invite him anyway. I'm helping with sunday school and he won't come and meet me up there for church, he'll come sometimes if there's no Sunday school. Thanks for the prayers.

Lent is a great time in the Church year for that sort of thing...maybe you could talk him into going as a Lenten disipline (much easier than giving something up) and it might stick...if he can make it for lent why not pentecost?...

[ctay]

I don't know if he'll go but I'm going to try to get him to go during the mid week Lent services. I should say invite him.

[RedneckAnglican]

I don't know if he'll go but I'm going to try to get him to go during the mid week Lent services. I should say invite him.


probably better than saying, "nag"...:D

will pray for you sister...

[porterross]

ctay,

It could be that your husband is afraid that he might be changed by going to often and he doesn't want to change his views at this time.

Scott



That's funny, but true. The image of "Pod People" immediately came to mind. :D

There are few things as frightening as a Born Again (?) Christian with the need to witness to everyone he/she meets.

They scare me, too. :cry:

[SPALATIN]

That's funny, but true. The image of "Pod People" immediately came to mind. :D

There are few things as frightening as a Born Again (?) Christian with the need to witness to everyone he/she meets.

They scare me, too. :cry:

Maybe he could wear a button or name tag that reads.

If you're GUNG HO for Jesus keep walking and stop talking. ;)

[C.F.W. Walther]

That's funny, but true. The image of "Pod People" immediately came to mind. :D

There are few things as frightening as a Born Again (?) Christian with the need to witness to everyone he/she meets.

They scare me, too. :cry:

It might be scary but they have that certain "I'll die for my beliefs" demenor and I actually wonder how many people would die for their faith? I know that wasn't on subject but sometimes a person does need to see the radicalness of a "born again" to make an impression on them and know someone can be very serious and not just wish-washy.

[ctay]

I did get one thing out of hubby. I think I said before he was brought up in a Baptist church, but when his oldest sister was fixing to get married, the guy that she was going to get married to was Catholic. He said the pastor at the church they went basically told his sister that she would go to hell if she married this guy. He was kind of upset that the Catholic church wouldn't recognise the first wedding either. He said they did get married later in the Catholic church. (He was probably around 10 or 11 yrs old at the time his sister got married.)

[porterross]

It might be scary but they have that certain "I'll die for my beliefs" demenor and I actually wonder how many people would die for their faith? I know that wasn't on subject but sometimes a person does need to see the radicalness of a "born again" to make an impression on them and know someone can be very serious and not just wish-washy.


Many of them have great conviction. That is certain, but I can honestly tell you that when I was in the "lost years", being witnessed to by overzealous non-denoms whom I had not offered inquired of probably did more damage to my attitude than truly devout Christians with whom I was acquainted who impressed me by example of the life they lived.
Some of us are just not the kind to respond immediately when an abundance of talk is forced on upon us. Fewer, more powerful words are much more effective, but I know that's not true of everyone.

[ctay]

I asked hubby yesterday if he'd go to the lenten service tonight, he never said anything except what time did it start. I called him at work a little bit ago, he told me to have him some clothes ready for tonight. Just hope he doesn't change his mind when the time comes.

[Jim47]

I asked hubby yesterday if he'd go to the lenten service tonight, he never said anything except what time did it start. I called him at work a little bit ago, he told me to have him some clothes ready for tonight. Just hope he doesn't change his mind when the time comes.


:clap: Wonderfrul news indeed!

[RedneckAnglican]

I asked hubby yesterday if he'd go to the lenten service tonight, he never said anything except what time did it start. I called him at work a little bit ago, he told me to have him some clothes ready for tonight. Just hope he doesn't change his mind when the time comes.

oh that is SO cool...that's the power of a praying wife!...:thumbsup:

[ctay]

He went. I don't know if I can get him into going to a Lutheran church or not.

[RedneckAnglican]

He went. I don't know if I can get him into going to a Lutheran church or not.

one day at a time...one step at a time...

[Jim47]

He went. I don't know if I can get him into going to a Lutheran church or not.


Ken is right, just take one day at a time. Perhaps just gentle invitations that he would go along with you becasue it means a lot to you? I'll be praying that it all works out for you.

[ctay]

Thanks.....

[C.F.W. Walther]

1 Corinthians 7:14 (King James Version)

King James Version (http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/?action=getVersionInfo&vid=9) (KJV)
(http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=34) [/URL] [URL="http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=2"] (http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=24)


14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

ctay---not that your husband is unbelieving but the promiss should be a comfort

[porterross]

Update

Just thought I'd let all of you know that since opening up to you wonderful folks here, the open arms in my home church have been non-stop. The welcome has been overwhelming and full of genuine love.
I had a nice visit with our Pastor today and it couldn't have gone much better. Another Prodigal child returns and the joy is evident and breathtaking.
I start Bible study tomorrow night and I will be attending confirmation classes with my daughter for a while to help her catch up with the other kids her age.
We are truly blessed and without the community here and your loving support I know things might have gone more slowly because of my closed mind.
Thank you all so much.
:hug:

[Protoevangel]

Update

Just thought I'd let all of you know that since opening up to you wonderful folks here, the open arms in my home church have been non-stop. The welcome has been overwhelming and full of genuine love.
I had a nice visit with our Pastor today and it couldn't have gone much better. Another Prodigal child returns and the joy is evident and breathtaking.
I start Bible study tomorrow night and I will be attending confirmation classes with my daughter for a while to help her catch up with the other kids her age.
We are truly blessed and without the community here and your loving support I know things might have gone more slowly because of my closed mind.
Thank you all so much.
:hug:
Welcome home! :hug:

[ctay]

Sounds wonderful!!!! Great news!!!

[Jim47]

All the saints and angels rejoice over your coming back. :clap:

[porterross]

Thanks everyone. I have so much joy in my heart and calm in my soul right now that it's difficult to not want to share it with those who might understand.
You're all wonderful.
:bow:

[ctay]

I went through the same thing last year during the Lent season!!!

[porterross]

I went through the same thing last year during the Lent season!!!


Good for you, ctay.

Did your DH attend church yesterday?

[ctay]

No he didn't. I help with sunday school and he won't come up to church and meet me up there unless I ask him if he wants to go and stay home until its time to leave for church

[Jim47]

No he didn't. I help with sunday school and he won't come up to church and meet me up there unless I ask him if he wants to go and stay home until its time to leave for church



It sounds like maybe he is a little afraid of church? Try to think of ways that you can use that to draw him closer and lessen his fears. :prayer:

[ctay]

I know he's cynical.. Its hard talking to him about church, he starts getting a little huffy about it. I don't want to make him mad, I just got to figure out something and I just don't know what.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Update

Just thought I'd let all of you know that since opening up to you wonderful folks here, the open arms in my home church have been non-stop. The welcome has been overwhelming and full of genuine love.
I had a nice visit with our Pastor today and it couldn't have gone much better. Another Prodigal child returns and the joy is evident and breathtaking.
I start Bible study tomorrow night and I will be attending confirmation classes with my daughter for a while to help her catch up with the other kids her age.
We are truly blessed and without the community here and your loving support I know things might have gone more slowly because of my closed mind.
Thank you all so much.
:hug:

Must be old age but it brought a tear to my eye. :clap:

[porterross]

Sounds more like he's afraid of Sunday School or Bible Study.
Was he good in school or is the idea of a classroom type setting stressful for him?

The intimacy and examination type setting of Sunday School may be frightening for him. To be honest, it's never been my favorite thing either because you never know how to disagree with someone's theories without casing problems. For instance, the Earth age debate. Some of us believe it is older and that the 6 days of Genesis were a period of time that cannot be adequately quantitated as less than 10,000 years old. This matter alone is not worth beating one another over the head in my opinion, but some people are insistent on bringing others to their way of thinking. :(

Also, maybe because he isn't as knowledgeable as you and others who've attended Church most of their lives, he feels he'll look foolish trying to converse with them.

These are valid fears and your quiet patience is probably affecting him more than you realize.

[RedneckAnglican]

Update

Just thought I'd let all of you know that since opening up to you wonderful folks here, the open arms in my home church have been non-stop. The welcome has been overwhelming and full of genuine love.
I had a nice visit with our Pastor today and it couldn't have gone much better. Another Prodigal child returns and the joy is evident and breathtaking.
I start Bible study tomorrow night and I will be attending confirmation classes with my daughter for a while to help her catch up with the other kids her age.
We are truly blessed and without the community here and your loving support I know things might have gone more slowly because of my closed mind.
Thank you all so much.
:hug:

praise GOD from whom all blessings flow!...:amen:

[C.F.W. Walther]

I know he's cynical.. Its hard talking to him about church, he starts getting a little huffy about it. I don't want to make him mad, I just got to figure out something and I just don't know what.

Let it lay. The best example is a Godly example. When I was sooooo way out in left field with my life no one could tell me what to do. All that can be done is prayers for him from a Godly wife and/or friends.

I had to reach the lowest spiritual point in my life before I started the road back into the light. Nobody could help me because I didn't want help. I was in control of my life------yea sure :( Finally found out that only God can control my life and that I had made a total mess of it. Unfortunately some people have to find that low before they have a "turn around".

Not very reassuring for you ctay but for me it was a life saver.

[Protoevangel]

I echo what Radidio says.

Even if one dosen't hit a proverbal rock bottom before turning around, patience and prayer is much more helpful than poking and prodding. Take it from someone who required a LOT of patience and prayer. :)

[porterross]

I echo what Radidio says.

Even if one dosen't hit a proverbal rock bottom before turning around, patience and prayer is much more helpful than poking and prodding. Take it from someone who required a LOT of patience and prayer. :)

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

DO you know how many times I have run into my Pastor around our small town over the past 5 years? Dozens, but he NEVER asked me when or if I might be in church or even if I would call him, etc. and this is a man who knows my lifelong history in the Church and had to know my absence was not healthy for me.

He said he knew that I already knew where I belonged and that pushing me might be counter-productive. Wow!

It worked. You have no idea how many times I've thought about why he never pushed me....that was the Holy Spirit doing a number on me. Amazing to look back on.:scratch:

The worst thing my Pastor could have done was pushed me or even asked me if I might attend the church I grew up in any time soon. It has to have been the devil just sitting inside my head, posturing for that to use it against me. :mad: The lack of pressure defused the devil's plan.

Patience, ctay. Provide the example of a Christian manner and let him know how much you love and respect him. You might be surprised.

God is great.
:bow:

[ctay]

Thanks for all the advice, I hadn't really pushed all year. I told him this morning he had an invitation to come with me this evening to the Lenten service that's all I said, its up to him whether he comes or not.

[porterross]

So now he has all day to think about it....I hope you asked him after a sweet kiss or sumfin' lovin' like it. He is a man, after all. ;)

[SPALATIN]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


The worst thing my Pastor could have done was pushed me or even asked me if I might attend the church I grew up in any time soon. It has to have been the devil just sitting inside my head, posturing for that to use it against me. :mad: The lack of pressure defused the devil's plan.


God is great.
:bow:

Porterross

The Devil basically got bored waiting for the Pastor to ask you that question that he didn't realize the Holy Spirit was ready to evict him from the premises by softly encouraging you to get back to the word and sacrament ministry you grew up with. As long as you knew that the door was always open for you to walk ink, the Pastor really didn't need to bring the matter up.

Ctay,

You might want to follow Porteross advice. Just let your husband know that the invitation is there and that while you would like him to join you you won't hold it against him if he does not.

If he does not join you, start sending up prayers again that the Holy Spirit will soften his heart so that one day he will want to go. If he does go, kindly thank him afterward and then be silent about the situation unless he brings it up.

[ctay]

He didn't go last night. I didn't pressure him either. Maybe one of these days something may happen and he'll go..

[Flatscan82]

Fellow Lutherans.
I am new to these forums and very much relieved to have found this site and especially this area specifically for conservative Lutherans.
I was raised in the LCMS and after many years of making mistakes and experiencing what the corporeal world has to offer, I know in my heart that I took being raised in such a wonderful religion for granted and turned my back on my devotion for a great many years.
Marrying a non-believer was a mistake and I have paid dearly for that mistake. Except for the beautiful child that this union produced, it was disastrous and I struggled for years to overcome the damage I allowed myself to be subjected to.

My point to this post is a quest for opinions and perspectives from those of you who perhaps made better choices and never allowed your life within the Church to fade from importance in your life AND from those who's circumstances may be similar to mine.

My child and I are beginning to attend church now and I want so much to have a conversation with our pastor (whom I've know most of my life) and express my regrets and desire to be a devout Lutheran again, but I am so afraid of being judged harshly by those in the congregation who have not made the same kind of personal mistakes. This concerns me because as a child I remember the conversations of the adults in the church about members who had been divorced and it they were judged very harshly.

My mistakes are my own, but I wish to commit myself to embracing my religion and changing my life for the better on the spiritual level for both myself and my child without having to answer too many uncomfortable questions regarding my absence form the Church.

Your opinions and guidance are heartily welcome.

You are a better person for your mistakes; they have given you special insight into the world that not many Lutherans and I dare say not many Christians has or ever will have. If any one looks down on you for the things you screwed up one, then they are merely not following the teachings of Christ. It was Christ who first said you should worry about the log in your own eye before you pick out the speck in your neighbors

[Flatscan82]

Very good Flip---hit the nail on the head. :)

porterross you are excedingly welcome here. Ever hear of the prodigal son or our sins are forgiven as far as the east is from the west?

Anyway I was in the same situation for MANY years. Even so far as to get involved in transendental meditation, white whitchcraft, astral projection, being an outlaw biker, totally ruined my marriage by drinking and cheating on my wife. God has forgiven me so that my sins are totally forgotten and I even sometimes find it hard to believe. After all "My grace is sufficient for thee and my strength is made perfect in your weakness". THere are some of us that were TOTALLY unworthy but God does loves us and we are His by His grace and mercy.......AMEN:amen:

I generally don't like that modern interruption of that passage about the prodigal son. it originally was supposed to be about the Pharisees. The father was God, the bad son was the Jews that followed Jesus and the good son was the Pharisees.

[Flatscan82]

A quick little thing on those verses on marriage in Matthew. Jesus is speaking to those in the crowd who divorce without cause here. Many of the Jewish leaders were giving their wives certificates of divorce for reasons other than the ones Jesus specified. He knew this and threw the true essence of the law back at them.

If you consider the essence of your marriage you said that you married an unbeliever which caused many problems for you. Did he abuse you physically, verbally, mentally? Did he withhold things you were entitled to in your marriage?

The Good news is that Christ died for the sins committed in that marriage and divorce. While you can not go back and repair the damage that led to the divorce you can be remorseful that it ended the way it did and pray for forgiveness. God will forgive you.

The Lutheran Church is not the Roman Catholic Church. Divorce is not a barrier to getting remarried. I will advise though that the next time you are prepared to make that step in your life that you and your future husband seek pre-marital counseling to know that you are both spiritually compatible as well as your mutual physical and mental attraction to each other.

You should never divorce some one just because they believe differently than you. Paul said so. I don't know the exact versus but he says stay married to them so that the Holy Spirit might work through you to bring them closer to God. But if he is causing you unbearable pain and suffering then kick his @$% to the curb sister.

[Flatscan82]

He didn't go last night. I didn't pressure him either. Maybe one of these days something may happen and he'll go..

It sounds like he feels like that he does not belong or is worthy of Gods love. Some one made church a bad experiance for him, I am guessing. Try to make baby steps for him. Going to church to out-right would be too big of step for him. Start of by inviting a few or one church friend(s) to come over for BBQ or dinner. Try not to talk about church though. Then work up to a bible study or invite the pastor over for casual lunch. Still keeping God and church to a minimum. Let him become comfortable with the people at the church, then maybe, have him come to a bible study or help out with bible school for children.

I don't know your spouse personally or you for that matter. So take what I say with a grain of salt. I don't want my ideas to make things worse for you or you spouse.

[ctay]

He went with me to the Good Friday service and the Easter service. Since our church had service at 8 am we were planning on going to church with his mother too, she had asked us to come. He called her to see if she was going, but she wasn't feeling good so she didn't go. We decided not to go since she wasn't going.

[ctay]

Oh yeah I am planning on having a cookout here and inviting everyone in the church to it and see who shows up.. I told him I wanted to. He didn't seem to have a problem with it.

[Jim47]

Great news CTAY. Very happy for you. :thumbsup:

[porterross]

Outstanding news, CTAY!

:clap:

[ctay]

I still don't think he'll keep coming though. I'm hoping if I have a cookout here maybe they'll make him more comfortable. I just hope they don't start in on him about church. He gets a little testy...