Diversity Training

[MariaRegina]

After reading some posts here at CF, I have to ask this question:

Are the CF mods required to take Diversity Training as part of their training protocol?

There is something I just cannot put my finger on, but frankly, I don't know if I can continue to post here at CF any longer.:eek:

[EricTheRed]

I have no idea if they do..but I am curious :scratch:

[repentant]

Probably not. They just pick people. Unless they have a "Christian Forums School of Higher Education" I don't know about..

[gzt]

yeah, and one of the downsides of doing things with people is that they're notoriously flawed.

[MariaRegina]

yeah, and one of the downsides of doing things with people is that they're notoriously flawed.

Yeah, we are all notorious sinners in need of repentance.

[Dust and Ashes]

Nothing was ever said about any formal diversity training when I looked into being a mod but I think there is some discussion about the issue. Of course that was a year ago so things might have changed since then.

[Marxist]

After reading some posts here at CF, I have to ask this question:

Are the CF mods required to take Diversity Training as part of their training protocol?

There is something I just cannot put my finger on, but frankly, I don't know if I can continue to post here at CF any longer.:eek:

Don't even think about it!:kiss:

Diversity? In what sense? religious? ethnic? sexual orientation? oops...can I say that?;)

[MariaRegina]

Don't even think about it!:kiss:

Diversity? In what sense? religious? ethnic? sexual orientation? oops...can I say that?;)

Thanks,

It's nice to know that I WOULD be missed.

Notice the use of the modal. ;)
I guess that is why CF is so addictive.

[Oblio]

Methinks religious diversity could also be labeled ecumenism.

[MariaRegina]

Methinks religious diversity could also be labeled ecumenism.

Okay, that explains it.

And I know from PMs I have received that this is why some folks don't post here any longer.

However, there is no real 'perfect' discussion board out there for Orthodox Christians, because we are all chief sinners.

[xenia]

As far as the idea of "uniting all Christians into one body," the stated goal of CF goes, I am only in favor of it if the body is Holy Orthodoxy. However, I am thankful that there is this little haven here on CF where we can talk among ourselves. I'm not interested in ecumenicalism but I'm interested in fellowship. I couldn't do this when I was a mod- I had to defend the rules, not Orthodoxy.

[tall73]

As far as the idea of "uniting all Christians into one body," the stated goal of CF goes, I am only in favor of it if the body is Holy Orthodoxy. However, I am thankful that there is this little haven here on CF where we can talk among ourselves. I'm not interested in ecumenicalism but I'm interested in fellowship. I couldn't do this when I was a mod- I had to defend the rules, not Orthodoxy.


So to what degree could you give your own take on things? I don't see a lot of mods posting opinions, but occassionally.

[rusmeister]

Hi, Aria!
I have enjoyed your posts (and you're the reason I have an avatar - icon - still thankful!). It would be a shame to see you leave. So if your feeling is strong enough to quit, you must be able to identify something.
Regarding "diversity training" - I spent several years seeing that concept used as a tool of the devil. The meaning of diversity in the public consciousness sounds good at first - that of accepting people who are (largely culturally) different from you. Unfortunately, it turns inevitably into a forced acceptance of all kinds of anti-Christian truth in the name of diversity and tolerance. As if all that is different is good, and we must tolerate other beliefs and ideas, no matter how far they lead us away from God.
Orthodoxy invites all, but doesnt sell out the Faith passed down to us. On many secular issues we have differences of opinion, and a number of those (diversity in Orthodoxy) ought to be tolerated, I suppose. But I would never want to see any "diversity training" of the type proferred in public schools and teacher certification programs because their aim is Godless.
:preach:
I hope to continue to see you around! Your (English-speaking) voices are a real comfort to me, electronic though they may be, in this far land I find myself in.

[xenia]

So to what degree could you give your own take on things? I don't see a lot of mods posting opinions, but occassionally.

Well, I was a mod on a lot of different sub-forums here and if an Orthodox brother or sister spoke too strongly in defense of our faith I would find myself in the unpleasant position of having to warn him/her for speaking the truth.

Mods often post using sock puppets when they are not posting in an official capacity.

[RobNJ]

The perfect end to a perfect day:sigh:


Thanks guys, always good to know how well ones efforts are received


I'm outta here

[Oblio]

Having been there and done that, I fully know the frustrations and trials of being a mod, and appreciate the spiritual tightrope that needs to be walked in those shoes.

[MariaRegina]

Thanks for the insight provided, Oblio and Xenia.

And dear RobNJ, I do appreciate your patience with us, and especially me, a sinner.

I guess I should stay out of certain forums (won't mention them) other than TAW.

[Akathist]

The perfect end to a perfect day:sigh:


Thanks guys, always good to know how well ones efforts are received


I'm outta here

Yea, this is how this thread has come accross to me. :(
Saturday night I was working here at Christian forums trying to prevent a train wreck in two threads and writing back and forth between different members trying to explain the rules and calm people down. I try to do a lot more than defend the rules. I really work hard to build bridges.

Only to be told that with my double degree in Anthropology and Religion and my Master's Degree and 18 years of experience working with people of every race and religion, being married to an immigrant, that I need diversity training!

Nice. Very Nice.

[rusmeister]

I guess it depends on where we post. TAW ought to be a safe place. If we can't post on our belief here, it's time to pack it in. In the other forums, though, we are dealing with beliefs, that however sincere, represent Christianity as warped by the Father of Lies. (If I can't say that here, I'm outta here)
Therefore, it is important to be respectful and bear in mind where we are, because very often what we believe about their beliefs is not received with open heart and mind, but rather perceived as an attack, from which they have to defend themselves. I avoid other forums, because I don't think I'm going to convert anybody with my words, and I quickly get headaches dealing with the contradictions.
Diversity, tolerance and multi-culturalism are worship-words (old Star Trek, "The Omega Glory" for you trekkers) and its proponents are in firm control of teaching the teachers who teach our children. (I am a certified teacher, btw, one of the reasons I go by my pseudonym)
So be wise as serpents and harmless as doves when you're out there. But we should be able to "let it all hang out" here, and we should always be ready to listen to and give our brothers and sisters here honest feedback (or criticism) in a spirit of love.

[Oblio]

Hmmm, I think I misinterpreted the OP and should have kept my mouth shut. :(

Please forgive me where I have offended.

[CaDan]

Yea, this is how this thread has come accross to me. :(
Saturday night I was working here at Christian forums trying to prevent a train wreck in two threads and writing back and forth between different members trying to explain the rules and calm people down. I try to do a lot more than defend the rules. I really work hard to build bridges.


I was there, tg.

You were awesome.

There's only so much one can do when people are determined to be ornery.

[MariaRegina]

Yea, this is how this thread has come accross to me. :(
Saturday night I was working here at Christian forums trying to prevent a train wreck in two threads and writing back and forth between different members trying to explain the rules and calm people down. I try to do a lot more than defend the rules. I really work hard to build bridges.

Only to be told that with my double degree in Anthropology and Religion and my Master's Degree and 18 years of experience working with people of every race and religion, being married to an immigrant, that I need diversity training!

Nice. Very Nice.


Dear Thorny:

If you will read the OP again, you will notice the ambiguity in the statement I made. That was done deliberately to get the discussion going without adding my bias.

Note that I didn't say whether I liked or disliked Diversity Training, yet I think Oblio and Xenia got my drift.

Folks at General Electric are required to go through Diversity Training regularly. Teachers and Real Estate Brokers must go through this training at least once every four years to keep their credentials and licenses. Students who are members or in leadership positions in the various student organizations must partake of this political re-education every year.

What are my thoughts about DT?

Let me tell you.

I went to a Real Estate seminar a few years back where this very unattractive lady got up and told us how we were to love everyone. She said that this seminar for which we paid $20 was very important in our sales work and that we were not to discriminate against anyone. Okay so far? Well, we thought we were in for an ethics class.

Then she did a 180 degree switch and told us to write on huge sheets of paper everything horrible that we remembered hearing about fellow humans. Those of us who were artistic were asked to draw pictures or symbols portraying bigotry. In the end, she had us so mad at each other that some of us who were friends no longer spoke to each other.

In every DT course I have taken, the same scenario happens. Friends turn into enemies.

In my Intercultural Communications class, people turned against each other and the college professor even stood on a chair and yelled at us. Women were crying. Guys were in shock. It was awful and we had to pay big bucks to take that mandatory class.

I don't wish DT on anybody.

Frankly, I will admit now that I abhor and detest Diversity Training because it is an offspring of Sensitivity Training and other new age training geared to make everybody have a big love in (orgie) with no moral values whatever. It is an offspring of the hippie movement that has backfired big time.

[CaDan]

Only $20.00 for DT?

I havve to pay around $200.00. Ouch.

[MariaRegina]

Only $20.00 for DT?

I havve to pay around $200.00. Ouch.


It was a three hour class and was partially financed through the Real Estate Board. Otherwise, we would have had to pay $40.00.

However, at the Community College I attended five years ago, when we gathered for an honors society conference, we had to pay $100 each for an all day gathering. People were so angry because we were not told that it was Diversity Training. The administration knew that if they were honest , few would come. So they gave it a fancy name and LIED to us. :(

[CaDan]

It was a three hour class and was partially financed through the Real Estate Board. Otherwise, we would have had to pay $40.00.

However, at the Community College I attended five years ago, when we gathered for an honors society conference, we had to pay $100 each for an all day gathering. People were so angry because we were not told that it was Diversity Training. The administration knew that if they were honest , few would come. So they gave it a fancy name and LIED to us. :(

I have to do 2.5 hours of "Elimination of Bias" every three years as part of my legal continuing education.

Actually, the ones I have been to have not been nearly as bad as the ones you describe. Just boring. And expensive.

[MariaRegina]

Hi, Aria!
I have enjoyed your posts (and you're the reason I have an avatar - icon - still thankful!). It would be a shame to see you leave. So if your feeling is strong enough to quit, you must be able to identify something.
Regarding "diversity training" - I spent several years seeing that concept used as a tool of the devil. The meaning of diversity in the public consciousness sounds good at first - that of accepting people who are (largely culturally) different from you. Unfortunately, it turns inevitably into a forced acceptance of all kinds of anti-Christian truth in the name of diversity and tolerance. As if all that is different is good, and we must tolerate other beliefs and ideas, no matter how far they lead us away from God.
Orthodoxy invites all, but doesnt sell out the Faith passed down to us. On many secular issues we have differences of opinion, and a number of those (diversity in Orthodoxy) ought to be tolerated, I suppose. But I would never want to see any "diversity training" of the type proferred in public schools and teacher certification programs because their aim is Godless.
:preach:
I hope to continue to see you around! Your (English-speaking) voices are a real comfort to me, electronic though they may be, in this far land I find myself in.


It's sad that some folks don't read all of the posts of a thread but just a selected few.

Your post is so true.

Thanks.


Unfortunately, with Diversity Training people are taught to judge and we need less of that today.

God bless you and grant you many years.

[MariaRegina]

My prayers that CF mods won't be required to take Diversity Training.

[Theophorus]

I have watched this philosophy develop from when I was in the military, to the secular world. I have been inundated with it.

It started "in force" with the word; tolerance. Well, how much is one willing to tolerate?. With danish cartoons, evidently not much.

DT is the new virtue, just as "tolerance" was. Expect it to fail. But I do not expect you to. You transcend all of that. You are a Christian by the most acncient witness, and by the grace of God.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Methinks religious diversity could also be labeled ecumenism.

Yeah, and diversity training can should be viewed as brainwashing.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I have to do 2.5 hours of "Elimination of Bias" every three years as part of my legal continuing education.

How is that any different from the pseudo-laws the NSDAP put in place in Third Reich Germany? Or the thought police of 1984? Or the "firemen" in Fahrenheit 454?

[Dust and Ashes]

Wow. I thought diversity training was learning how people from different cultures/backgrounds might view various things in different ways and how to bridge the gaps there to help them understand. I've never gone through it but just from the name, that's what it would seem to be.

It's funny how a concept can be so twisted and skewed in practice until it ends up being the opposite of what it should be. :eek:

[CaDan]

Wow. I thought diversity training was learning how people from different cultures/backgrounds might view various things in different ways and how to bridge the gaps there to help them understand. I've never gone through it but just from the name, that's what it would seem to be.

It's funny how a concept can be so twisted and skewed in practice until it ends up being the opposite of what it should be. :eek:

On the face of it, sure, DT looks like a good idea. Heck, it is a good idea. Knowing some things to help you deal with folks from different cultural and sub-cultural backgrounds is a good skill to have.

But my experience is not so much that it has been "brainwashing" but that it has been a scam. Dull platitudes preached at $100.00 per hour.

That's what I don't like.

[Oblio]

Until DT encompasses how we need to accept 'alternative lifestyles' :sick:

[ufonium2]

My mom used to work for a community college whose stated goal was to serve students from three counties in rural Kentucky. One year the diversity gestapo got all over her for not having a diverse enough recruiting class. Well, of the three counties from which she was supposed to recruit, not one high school had graduated a non-white student. None. They just aren't there. The diversity police should've been impressed that she found any non-whites to go there, but instead she got in trouble for being un-diverse.

Conversly, my previous university got some kind of big award for being so diverse. CNN even talked about it, how great it was that our university was 30% Black. Nobody stopped to consider that we were a city university, most of our students were from that city, and that the city itself is like 60% Black.

Seriously, if the diversity crowd would spend more time worried about people and less time worried about percentages, we'd all be better off.

[Michael the Iconographer]

On the face of it, sure, DT looks like a good idea. Heck, it is a good idea. Knowing some things to help you deal with folks from different cultural and sub-cultural backgrounds is a good skill to have.

But my experience is not so much that it has been "brainwashing" but that it has been a scam. Dull platitudes preached at $100.00 per hour.

That's what I don't like.

It isn't brainwashing when they tell me I need to take diversity training for me to learn to be tolerant of alternative lifestyles that my faith tells me not to tolerate?

[CaDan]

It isn't brainwashing when they tell me I need to take diversity training for me to learn to be tolerant of alternative lifestyles that my faith tells me not to tolerate?

I don't want to push this to the point of arguing with you in your home forum, so please let me know if I get too close to the line.

What DT should be, in my opinion, is a training in a set of skills for how to deal with people justly, fairly, and efficiently even if you come from different subcultures. Not so much what to believe, but rather how to act.

And, can we lose this "alternate lifestyles" euphemism?

[jameseb]

And, can we lose this "alternate lifestyles" euphemism?

Actually, I believe "alternative lifestyle" is a preferred term endorsed by diversity awareness.

[jameseb]

After reading some posts here at CF, I have to ask this question:

Are the CF mods required to take Diversity Training as part of their training protocol?

There is something I just cannot put my finger on, but frankly, I don't know if I can continue to post here at CF any longer.:eek:

As Oblio, Xenia and Thorny have probably all ready stated, no, we did not have to participate in any such program.

And as Oblio also stated, it can be a fine tight-rope to walk.

Aria, don't even think about going though.... I mean it! :) Anyway you can link me to the thread that troubled you?

[rusmeister]

I don't want to push this to the point of arguing with you in your home forum, so please let me know if I get too close to the line.

What DT should be, in my opinion, is a training in a set of skills for how to deal with people justly, fairly, and efficiently even if you come from different subcultures. Not so much what to believe, but rather how to act.

And, can we lose this "alternate lifestyles" euphemism?

Alas, terms like "alternative lifestyle" are what is pushed in the public schools. Control who teaches the teachers and you've got the nation's children. And that control is total. I went through it just before I became Orthodox.

No "class" will teach the ability to value other cultures. You have to get up and go there. I was abroad for a few years in the military, and then Russia and East Europe on my own. When you SEE and LIVE WITH the other people, begin to speak their language and understand their lives, you begin to learn what is good about diversity.
The classroom experience is indeed a scam, but it is also brainwashing.

Someday I hope to put together my own work on education (both schools and the teacher programs) but for now, take a look at John Taylor Gatto's work http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm. He's not Christian, but he has put his finger on where all of this is coming from. I paid several years of my life to learn that he's mostly right, when I went through the state certificate process while teaching full-time in a high school.

[Michael the Iconographer]

And, can we lose this "alternate lifestyles" euphemism?

Do you want me to be blunt?

[CaDan]

Someday I hope to put together my own work on education (both schools and the teacher programs) but for now, take a look at John Taylor Gatto's work http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm. He's not Christian, but he has put his finger on where all of this is coming from. I paid several years of my life to learn that he's mostly right, when I went through the state certificate process while teaching full-time in a high school.

Ooohhh . . . de-schooling.

Suitable for a whole 'nother thread.

[Matrona]

What DT should be, in my opinion, is a training in a set of skills for how to deal with people justly, fairly, and efficiently even if you come from different subcultures. Not so much what to believe, but rather how to act.

I quite agree, CaDan. I think people forget that tolerance and acceptance are two different things. Did you ever see that South Park episode, "The Death Camp of Tolerance"? :D

[MariaRegina]

What DT should be, in my opinion, is a training in a set of skills for how to deal with people justly, fairly, and efficiently even if you come from different subcultures. Not so much what to believe, but rather how to act.

Why that program does sound familiar. :D

My catechumenate in a diverse Orthodox Christian parish taught me those skills along with a good dose of repentance and an increased faith in God.

Now to implement this program nationwide.;)

[CaDan]

Why that program does sound familiar. :D

My catechumenate in a diverse Orthodox Christian parish taught me those skills along with a good dose of repentance and an increased faith in God.

Now to implement this program nationwide.;)

*shnort*

;)

[MariaRegina]

*shnort*

;)

My jaw is sore from laughing.:D

[Prawnik]

The Gatto book is interesting, I am reading it now. CaDan has prob'ly already read it, yo, but Ivan Ilich has also wrote on the necessity of de-schooling. II's arguments are more sophisticated than one might think.

It is interesting that public schools became more or less univeral at about the times and places child labor was abolished. This is probably not a coincidence.

[Oblio]

It is the policy of the Company to recruit, hire, train and promote for all job classifications without regard to race, color, creed, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and expression, age, disability, or Vietnam era or other eligible veteran status, and to base all such employment decisions upon the individual’s qualifications and ability to perform the work assigned.

True diversity is, IMO, cheapened by the inclusion of certain classifications.

:sigh:

[rusmeister]

OK, uh, is there a link for this Ivan Ilich?
I have enough material for my own book, but would definitely want to find lots more!
Hurray, Aria! Christianity is the real diversity training!!!

[MariaRegina]

Hurray, Aria! Christianity is the real diversity training!!!

Problem is, in most DT sessions I have attended, and even in my 3 unit class on intercultural communications, the facilitator or professor insisted that Christians were bigots and needed diversity training. They lumped all Christians into the Neo-Nazi camp, mentioning Pius XII, the skinheads, Benedict XVI and the Bosnian war repeatedly to prove their 'claims.' It was so nauseating.

Insidious DT continues after the training:

Yesterday in my grad seminar on grammar, the graduate presenter asked the following question:

"Would you support the legalization of homosexuals who wish to adopt babies and children?"

There were four students who were asked this question by the student teacher in our seminar class. Two students said, "Yes." Then a third student said, "No" and was immediately shouted down by the fourth student who said, "Yes".

[Michael the Iconographer]

Why that program does sound familiar. :D

My catechumenate in a diverse Orthodox Christian parish taught me those skills along with a good dose of repentance and an increased faith in God.

Now to implement this program nationwide.;)

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[MariaRegina]

I quite agree, CaDan. I think people forget that tolerance and acceptance are two different things. Did you ever see that South Park episode, "The Death Camp of Tolerance"? :D

No, I have never seen South Park. Our
TV set is dismantled. What was it about?

Many people tolerate the behavior of another by just ignoring it and pretending it isn't there.

I feel uneasy at the university when a young man and a young woman are doing the French kiss in the middle of the walkway. However, I must tolerate it. I try to keep my eyes focused on the road ahead, but if they are straight ahead of me, well, I don't want to run into them. Frankly, I honestly feel that French kissing, if desired, should be reserved for the marital bedroom as part of marital relations. On a side note: my parents called French kissing "swapping bubblegum," a euphemism I also use.:D

Acceptance of another's behavior is another matter entirely. I, for one, do not accept immoral homosexual behavior. In addition, I will not view or attend one of their parades. Furthermore, when homosexuals kiss in public, I find it highly offensive. When they must act out in public, and expect us to view it, then they are imposing their lifestyle on us, and this behavior is totally unacceptable.

[Prawnik]

OK, uh, is there a link for this Ivan Ilich?
I have enough material for my own book, but would definitely want to find lots more!
Hurray, Aria! Christianity is the real diversity training!!!

You asked for it, you got it:

http://reactor-core.org/deschooling.html

[Xpycoctomos]

what are we talking about?

[rusmeister]

You asked for it, you got it:

http://reactor-core.org/deschooling.html

T'anks!:)

[MariaRegina]

T'anks!:)

What do you think of this article - or series of articles?

[Prawnik]

The link I sent is actually more in the nature of a book.

[jameseb]

.

[rusmeister]

What do you think of this article - or series of articles?

Have only just begun to read it. 60 something pages. So far seems right on. DT is directly connected to schooling, so I'll ask if anybody has read Gatto (John Taylor Gatto), his speeches or books?