Is it ok...

[kamikat]

if I leave at the end of DL after the congragation starts going up to venerate the cross? I usually sit in the back and when I wait for everyone to go up row by row, it takes forever. I don't feel comfortable going up to venerate the cross, so I feel like I just waiting so people don't stare at me walking out the back door.

kamikat

[InnerPhyre]

It is ok, yes. But my advice? Go venerate it! I was scared when I first came to an Orthodox church too, but everyone is welcome to venerate the cross and everyone would be very happy to see you doing it. The Catholic mindset of not wanting to slip up or step out of place at the wrong time is largely absent in Orthodoxy, as the services are both more regal and formal....and yet more relaxed at the same time. Sort of an oxymoron. While you're at it, have some antidoron too :) Hop right in. You're very welcome to!

[gzt]

it's fine, but don't be afraid of venerating the cross.

[kamikat]

The Catholic mindset of not wanting to slip up or step out of place at the wrong time is largely absent in Orthodoxy, as the services are both more regal and formal....and yet more relaxed at the same time. Sort of an oxymoron. While you're at it, have some antidoron too :) Hop right in. You're very welcome to!

UUUUUUGH! Ya mean I should just go hog wild and start crossing myself whenever I feel like it, stand or sit whenever I want or come in and out of church:D And all this time, I was just watching the little old ladies sitting next to me and following what they did. Although, I gotta admit that I don't have the bicep and tricep strength to cross as much or as fast as the one right next to me. It's all so confusing. The row ahead of me was standing, but the row across from them was sitting. It was like liturgical chaos, man!;)
I gotta say, every time I go, I feel more and more conmfortable. I didn't cross myself the RC way once this time. WooHoo! Although, I still look for the font of holy water upon entering or leaving the church.
kamikat

[Llauralin]

Wait... people venerate the Cross at the end of DL? Do most churches do that? I've only been to Greek churches, but I've never seen them do that... Is it optional?

[EvangeliGirl]

UUUUUUGH! Ya mean I should just go hog wild and start crossing myself whenever I feel like it, stand or sit whenever I want or come in and out of church:D And all this time, I was just watching the little old ladies sitting next to me and following what they did. Although, I gotta admit that I don't have the bicep and tricep strength to cross as much or as fast as the one right next to me. It's all so confusing. The row ahead of me was standing, but the row across from them was sitting. It was like liturgical chaos, man!;)
I gotta say, every time I go, I feel more and more conmfortable. I didn't cross myself the RC way once this time. WooHoo! Although, I still look for the font of holy water upon entering or leaving the church.
kamikat

LOL... Ive sorta just jumped right in there. My first DL I was front and center, lit a candle, kissed the Bible, got a blessing from the priest and took some antidoron, venerated the cross and crossed myself silly. It took a couple of times before I felt comfortable kissing and venerating the icons as you come in the door, and Ive certainly had my awkward moments prostrating and losing my headcovering... :o Thats my personality, though -- a bit wreckless :cool: .

It does take alot of energy, though. Sometimes I have to chill out a bit...

[knee-v]

My advice is to not rush anything. It took me a while to get comfortable enough to venerate icons and the cross. But I eventually got around to it. As it was put to me once (maybe here, maybe at my own church. I forget), the Church has been around for 2000 years and isn't going anywhere any time soon, so take your time.

[Oblio]

Wait... people venerate the Cross at the end of DL? Do most churches do that? I've only been to Greek churches, but I've never seen them do that... Is it optional?


IIRC it is more of a Slavic thing. You will not see it until the final blessing is given (IOW if there is another service to follow) and during certain other times during the Liturgical year.

[MariaRegina]

The Greek Orthodox do venerate the Holy Cross on September 14 and on the Sunday of the Holy Cross during Great Lent. Otherwise, we just kiss the hand of the priest and receive antidoron from him.

In the Antiochian and OCA churches I have visited, the priest does hold a cross and the people venerate the Cross and then kiss the hand of the priest (because he touches the precious Body and Blood during Holy Communion). The altar boys hold a basket or bowl filled with antidoron while the people help themselves to it.

[Monica, child of God]

Are you squeamish about kissing stuff? The way I look at it, the Orthodox have been kissing icons and hands for centuries now. If one could catch a disease, we would have found out by now or been wiped out :)

M.

[georgia123]

When I first starting attending my Orthodox Church I too use to sneak out the door when the people would go up to venerate the cross. I wasn't sure if I should go up to venerate the cross with them or not. After several weeks the priests wife solved the problem and came and got me at the end of the service. All are welcome to join in venerating the cross and it gives you a wonderful opportunity to introduce yourself to the priest. If you aren't comfortable doing it yet though, then wait until you are.

[Greg the byzantine]

Wait... people venerate the Cross at the end of DL? Do most churches do that? I've only been to Greek churches, but I've never seen them do that... Is it optional?
Yeah I never heard about it until I came to these boards. In the Greek tradition after the Liturgy is over the priest usually stands at the front of the church with a bowl of antidoron and then the faithful go up and kiss the priests hand and recieve a piece of antidoron from him .
In the Antiochian and OCA churches I have visited, the priest does hold a cross and the people venerate the Cross and then kiss the hand of the priest (because he touches the precious Body and Blood during Holy Communion). The altar boys hold a basket or bowl filled with antidoron while the people help themselves to it.
Actually in one Greek church I went to the priest had the cross in his hand, everybody kissed the cross, kissed his hand, and recieved a piece of antidoron from the priest. He was quite skilled and did it all with one hand.

[kamikat]

Are you squeamish about kissing stuff? The way I look at it, the Orthodox have been kissing icons and hands for centuries now. If one could catch a disease, we would have found out by now or been wiped out :)

M.

Not really squimish, althought I was when I first started going to DL back in the summer, but more just worried that I'll do it wrong and everyone will know I'm not Orthodox and give me the evil eye;)

kamikat

[MariaRegina]

In some Greek Orthodox Churches that are Pan-Orthodox (serving Greeks, Romanians, Russians, Arabs, etc.), the priest will hold the Holy Cross so that the people can venerate it.

The Russians would be offended if they couldn't venerate the Holy Cross. They would say, "Is outrage." ;)

[Dust and Ashes]

Just take it slowly and do it when you feel comfortable. Most of the time I do but sometimes, when the press of all the people is too heavy for my A.S. to handle, I'll slip out the back and go to the bookstore and look at books and icons till coffee hour starts.

[seashale76]

Not really squimish, althought I was when I first started going to DL back in the summer, but more just worried that I'll do it wrong and everyone will know I'm not Orthodox and give me the evil eye;)

kamikat

Heh, I'm in the same boat as you are right now. I've been angsting over going up to venerate the cross for a a few weeks now. The line is always so long and I'm overly self-conscious. I may work up the nerve to do it this Saturday. I want to, but I'm not comfortable yet.

[Monica, child of God]

Since we are talking about it: Ladies please, please remove your lipstick and lip gloss. Our Icon of the Protection of the Theotokos has a permanent red smudge on her veil because someone did not wipe off first. Plus it is just kinda gross.

M.

[MariaRegina]

Since we are talking about it: Ladies please, please remove your lipstick and lip gloss. Our Icon of the Protection of the Theotokos has a permanent red smudge on her veil because someone did not wipe off first. Plus it is just kinda gross.

M.

Monica, I wish you could come over to our church and preach that.

Preach it, Girl! ;)

[kamikat]

I'll slip out the back and go to the bookstore and look at books and icons till coffee hour starts.

Ok, let's not even talk about coffee hour. I have yet to go to the coffee hour. I suffer from terminal shyness. I get sick to my stomach towards the end of DL, trying to decide if THIS will be the day I go downstairs instead of running to my car. Father even said he would introduce me to a famiy with kids my sons' ages and the other RC converts in the congragation. I just can't bring myself to go downstairs.

kamikat

[kamikat]

Since we are talking about it: Ladies please, please remove your lipstick and lip gloss. Our Icon of the Protection of the Theotokos has a permanent red smudge on her veil because someone did not wipe off first. Plus it is just kinda gross.

M.

That brings up something else I wanted to ask. At the Greek church, they had the icons just sitting out, but at the OCA church, the kissing icons (as opposed to the ones on the walls) are in a little plexi-glass box. Is this normal?

kamikat

[MariaRegina]

That brings up something else I wanted to ask. At the Greek church, they had the icons just sitting out, but at the OCA church, the kissing icons (as opposed to the ones on the walls) are in a little plexi-glass box. Is this normal?

kamikat

At the Greek Orthodox Church near where I live, they always have the Icons in a glass enclosure to protect it from lipstick. Some of the older women bring their spray bottles containing rose water and clean cloths to wipe off the lipstick and chapstick that accumulates.

The OCA also does this. However, those glass enclosures are very expensive.

[Greg the byzantine]

That brings up something else I wanted to ask. At the Greek church, they had the icons just sitting out, but at the OCA church, the kissing icons (as opposed to the ones on the walls) are in a little plexi-glass box. Is this normal?

kamikat
That seems like a parish to parish decision. Our parish used to have the icons in the Narthex exposed, but they recently had them framed and covered with glass. This is usually done to protect the icons from the wear of constant kissing and the smoke form candles and incense, and to make them easier to clean. I personally don't like the glass as every little smudge shows up (people with oily faces beware)

[ufonium2]

Ok, let's not even talk about coffee hour. I have yet to go to the coffee hour. I suffer from terminal shyness.

I don't go to coffee hour at my church. It's not a requirement.

[gzt]

Feel free not to go to coffee hour. If you do one social thing, make it the veneration of the cross.

[georgia123]

I don't do the coffee hour thing yet either, maybe some day I will but right now I'm still not comfortable enough to do it.

[MariaRegina]

Coffee hour is a time to sit down at a table, by yourself or with others.

Someone will usually come up to you and mention that they have seen you during the Divine Liturgy but haven't had the pleasure of meeting you yet. That is what happened to me. And so I made some friends right away.

By the way, has anyone had difficulty posting.
I just posted a nice long message in answer to April's question over in the Taverna. It was posted along with 6 duplicates, then all my original message and the duplicates all disappeared at once. Honestly I only hit the post button twice because it didn't say posting underneath, so I figured that I didn't click it accurately. Boy, the buttons are sensitive lately.

[AlaskaFan]

I am very shy myself. Sometimes during coffee hour I am looking in the bookstore.

Ok, let's not even talk about coffee hour. I have yet to go to the coffee hour. I suffer from terminal shyness. I get sick to my stomach towards the end of DL, trying to decide if THIS will be the day I go downstairs instead of running to my car. Father even said he would introduce me to a famiy with kids my sons' ages and the other RC converts in the congragation. I just can't bring myself to go downstairs.

kamikat

[Llauralin]

Yeah I never heard about it until I came to these boards. In the Greek tradition after the Liturgy is over the priest usually stands at the front of the church with a bowl of antidoron and then the faithful go up and kiss the priests hand and recieve a piece of antidoron from him .

Yup, that's what they do here. Just as well for me -- I was confused enough with the idea of kissing the priest's hand, getting bread, and saying "truely He is risen" all at the same time when I started going; I may have just fled if a cross was there as well.

Re the OP -- I know what you mean; in my case it was kissing the icon of the Theotokos at Paraklesis. There were only abot eight people, so everyone knew I had no clue if I didn't go up, or if I did and did something wrong, but being rather reckless I went up anyway and probably made a fool of myself. At least there weren't any cranky old Greek ladies to scold me. It really didn't help though that at some time dring the service everyone chanted something along the lines of "silent be the lips of the impious ones, those who do not reverence your (Mary's) great icon, the sacred one, which is called (whatever it was called).:eek: