Can you all pass on any help or input for me?

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Obviously, I am not Orthodox- but I am asking (and expected to be granted) permission from my spiritual director to keep the Orthodox fast for the Great Lent. It will be the first time that I have fasted this extensively for this long. My questions are of two varieties.

First, as I was poking around the links in the reference library at the top of the page, I found one article about fasting- and wheat wasn't included in the list of things from which to abstain. Is wheat okay- or a no-no?

Second-any practical advice? Any ideas for a first timer? Any ideas for the days when it's difficult? I remember last year reading some threads here about moderation after Easter- to give you body time to adjust.

Thank you all so much!

[Monica, child of God]

Wheat and all other grains are allowed on the fast. We abstain from meat, dairy, eggs, wine and olive oil. For longer fasts such as Great Lent, the fast is usually relaxed on Saturdays and Sundays. Those will be the wine and oil days; days where you might allow yourself more food if you are restricting quantities. Maybe even a soy treat :)

I would suggest that you follow a calendar that will guide you WRT stricter and more lenient days. The Church is wise and does not demand too much of Her children. If there isn't one in the Eastern Rite of the Catholic Church that you have access to, here are a couple of resources:

OCA (http://www.oca.org/CALindex.asp?SID=22)

GOARCH (http://www.goarch.org/en/chapel/calendar.asp)

You will notice that we are already preparing for the fast bodily (this week is fast free; week after next is no meat, but dairy and fish is allowed) and spiritually. For more on the spiritual preparation see this article (http://www.oca.org/OCchapter.asp?SID=2&ID=65). My personal favorite is Forgiveness Sunday when we ask every one in the parish individually--clergy and lay-- for forgiveness saying, "Sister/brother forgive me" and responding "as God forgives, I forgive."

During the Fast, the Church gives us a lot of liturgical support in the form of the Canon of St. Andrew, Presanctified Liturgy and the Akathist Hymn. I highly recommend attending these services as they really help to stregnthen you to endure the Fast. You are welcome to attend an Orthodox Church if there is no Eastern Catholic Church near you with these services. (As you probably know, Latin and Eastern Catholics are not allowed to partake of the Eucharist in an Orthodox Church.)

Hope that helps some :)

M.

[Greg the byzantine]

During the Fast, the Church gives us a lot of liturgical support in the form of the Canon of St. Andrew, Presanctified Liturgy and the Akathist Hymn. I highly recommend attending these services as they really help to stregnthen you to endure the Fast. You are welcome to attend an Orthodox Church if there is no Eastern Catholic Church near you with these services. (As you probably know, Latin and Eastern Catholics are not allowed to partake of the Eucharist in an Orthodox Church.)

Hope that helps some :)

M.
OOh yes these services can be a big help during lent. If there is an EC church I also recommend that you attend these services during lent, especially the salutations of the Virgin aka the Akathist Hymn (EC's are granted a plenary indulgance for reciting the Akathist IIRC) which take place every friday during lent

Besides that, the most important thing to remember is to watch your body carefully during the fast. Some people go into the fast all gung ho and then they start having problems because they are not getting enough protein or Iron. If you notice any problems speak with a doctor, because it may be caused by a deficiency of specific nutrients. I have anemia so I have to be very carefully with what I eat so that I get the max amount of iron I can, so I have recieved special permission to supplement my fast with dairy and eggs when needed.

Second, enjoy the fast. Do not stress over what you are going to eat or what you are going to cook. Spend more time in prayer, and don't forget to give alms. (Although I am sure you know alll this, I am just reenforcing it for myself as well)

[Oblio]

You may have seen this, Fasting and Fast Free seasons of the Church (http://www.oca.org/OCFasting.asp?SID=2), but just in case, or for any lurkers.

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Wheat and all other grains are allowed on the fast. We abstain from meat, dairy, eggs, wine and olive oil. For longer fasts such as Great Lent, the fast is usually relaxed on Saturdays and Sundays. Those will be the wine and oil days; days where you might allow yourself more food if you are restricting quantities. Maybe even a soy treat :)

I would suggest that you follow a calendar that will guide you WRT stricter and more lenient days. The Church is wise and does not demand too much of Her children. If there isn't one in the Eastern Rite of the Catholic Church that you have access to, here are a couple of resources:

OCA (http://www.oca.org/CALindex.asp?SID=22)

GOARCH (http://www.goarch.org/en/chapel/calendar.asp)

You will notice that we are already preparing for the fast bodily (this week is fast free; week after next is no meat, but dairy and fish is allowed) and spiritually. For more on the spiritual preparation see this article (http://www.oca.org/OCchapter.asp?SID=2&ID=65). My personal favorite is Forgiveness Sunday when we ask every one in the parish individually--clergy and lay-- for forgiveness saying, "Sister/brother forgive me" and responding "as God forgives, I forgive."

During the Fast, the Church gives us a lot of liturgical support in the form of the Canon of St. Andrew, Presanctified Liturgy and the Akathist Hymn. I highly recommend attending these services as they really help to stregnthen you to endure the Fast. You are welcome to attend an Orthodox Church if there is no Eastern Catholic Church near you with these services. (As you probably know, Latin and Eastern Catholics are not allowed to partake of the Eucharist in an Orthodox Church.)

Hope that helps some :)

M.
Thank you for the wonderful resources! There is a Byzantine priest who teaches at our school, who has agreed to giude me a bit- I think I will ask him about the services you mentioned. I know he would help me to feel very welcome!

[ShannonMcCatholic]

OOh yes these services can be a big help during lent. If there is an EC church I also recommend that you attend these services during lent, especially the salutations of the Virgin aka the Akathist Hymn (EC's are granted a plenary indulgance for reciting the Akathist IIRC) which take place every friday during lent

Besides that, the most important thing to remember is to watch your body carefully during the fast. Some people go into the fast all gung ho and then they start having problems because they are not getting enough protein or Iron. If you notice any problems speak with a doctor, because it may be caused by a deficiency of specific nutrients. I have anemia so I have to be very carefully with what I eat so that I get the max amount of iron I can, so I have recieved special permission to supplement my fast with dairy and eggs when needed.

Second, enjoy the fast. Do not stress over what you are going to eat or what you are going to cook. Spend more time in prayer, and don't forget to give alms. (Although I am sure you know alll this, I am just reenforcing it for myself as well)Thank you! Luckily my husband was a vegetarian for a long time- so the cooking is not a real big problem-- the cheese....that will be hardest...no cheese.. I am finally neither pregnant nor nursing an infant during Lent...so this seems providential to be able to joyfullty prepare my soul in a profound way for the Resurrection!

[Oblio]

Ah, but there is Cheesefare :yum: The final week before Lent begins is slathered in cheese, glorious cheese :yum:

[choirfiend]

Vanshan did a great job putting this all together in this thread (http://www.christianforums.com/t2567746-some-great-lent-and-pascha-resources.html)

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Ah, but there is Cheesefare :yum: The final week before Lent begins is slathered in cheese, glorious cheese :yum::D I just read the name "cCheesefare" in the link you had posted...and I thought oooh! :clap:

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Do most of you really only eat a couple times in that first week of Lent?

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Vanshan did a great job putting this all together in this thread (http://www.christianforums.com/t2567746-some-great-lent-and-pascha-resources.html)
That is great! thank you!

[choirfiend]

The strict tules as put forth are generally the monastic rules, intended for someone living and working and praying in a monastery. This way of life is vastly different from someone living outside a monastery, and sometimes the monastic tradition is not practical nor applicable to someone living in the secular world. For some it may be possible, for others, impossible. I venture to say that most lay people do not attempt a level of fasting rigidity that a monastic may, because they are differently equipped to handle different things. Eating 3 meals during the first week of Lent may be doable for a monastic. Eating 3 meals a day during the first week may be the same qualitative level of doable for a lay person. They are qualitatively equal, though not quantitatively equal, if that makes sense.

[ShannonMcCatholic]

The strict tules as put forth are generally the monastic rules, intended for someone living and working and praying in a monastery. This way of life is vastly different from someone living outside a monastery, and sometimes the monastic tradition is not practical nor applicable to someone living in the secular world. For some it may be possible, for others, impossible. I venture to say that most lay people do not attempt a level of fasting rigidity that a monastic may, because they are differently equipped to handle different things. Eating 3 meals during the first week of Lent may be doable for a monastic. Eating 3 meals a day during the first week may be the same qualitative level of doable for a lay person. They are qualitatively equal, though not quantitatively equal, if that makes sense.
Yes, yes that makes perfect sense-- you know though, the Western mind and it's love of the clearly defined :D-- *lol* I want rules, rules to follow....

I will ask the Byzantine priest for his recommendations, and take those recommendations to my spiritual director--that seems the best, don't you think?

[choirfiend]

Sounds good to me! One of the things about Orthodox fasting, is that we dont just decide for ourselves what we want to do. When you do that, you are exercising just as much control over that element of your life as you always do. That's why we will go to a spiritual advisor for a fasting rule. It may feel more strict than we like, but more than likely, it will feel more lax, and in so doing, prevents us from seeing fasting as something that we do that 'makes' us holy--especially holier than thou. So accepting the reccomendations of your priest and spiritual counselor makes perfect sense to me.

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Sounds good to me! One of the things about Orthodox fasting, is that we dont just decide for ourselves what we want to do. When you do that, you are exercising just as much control over that element of your life as you always do. That's why we will go to a spiritual advisor for a fasting rule. It may feel more strict than we like, but more than likely, it will feel more lax, and in so doing, prevents us from seeing fasting as something that we do that 'makes' us holy--especially holier than thou. So accepting the reccomendations of your priest and spiritual counselor makes perfect sense to me.There is great, great wisdom in that! I'm not exactly know as being heroically temperate either..so I try to depend as much as I can on my priests to guide me- because I always want to do too much!

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Shannon,

After I get married and have a more stable schedule, I plan on asking my Byzantine priest for spiritual direction on this fast, as I want to also incorporate into my spiritual life. I've talked to him about it previously and he said that he will help me to gradually undertake the fast and work my way up.

I look forward to it.

I wish the Latin Church would get back to emphasising fasting more.

[MariaRegina]

Thank you for the wonderful resources! There is a Byzantine priest who teaches at our school, who has agreed to giude me a bit- I think I will ask him about the services you mentioned. I know he would help me to feel very welcome!

It is best to fast within your own traditions and going to a Byzantine Priest and attending services at his church is a win-win situation because you need to pray when you fast. The Eastern perspective on fasting is different from the Western perspective. It took me a while to understand, but there is an ethos that must be assimilated in order to really appreciate the fast.

[Scholar in training]

During the Fast, the Church gives us a lot of liturgical support in the form of the Canon of St. Andrew, Presanctified Liturgy and the Akathist Hymn. I highly recommend attending these services as they really help to stregnthen you to endure the Fast. You are welcome to attend an Orthodox Church if there is no Eastern Catholic Church near you with these services. (As you probably know, Latin and Eastern Catholics are not allowed to partake of the Eucharist in an Orthodox Church.)
I'm sorry if this is off-topic, but I have a question related to Eastern Catholics. What is the difference between Eastern Catholics and the Western Orthodox (http://www.westernorthodox.com/)? Are the Western Orthodox allowed to partake in Communion? I ask because I want to know whether I should be looking to attend a Western Orthodox parish when possible.

[InnerPhyre]

Shannon, this is a wonderful idea. It's great that you're seeking to get back to the roots of your Church (which until recently held the same fast that we do). I'll keep you in my prayers. May you use this period to come closer to God and to repent with the rest of us!

[Torah613]

Obviously, I am not Orthodox- but I am asking (and expected to be granted) permission from my spiritual director to keep the Orthodox fast for the Great Lent. It will be the first time that I have fasted this extensively for this long. My questions are of two varieties.

First, as I was poking around the links in the reference library at the top of the page, I found one article about fasting- and wheat wasn't included in the list of things from which to abstain. Is wheat okay- or a no-no?

Second-any practical advice? Any ideas for a first timer? Any ideas for the days when it's difficult? I remember last year reading some threads here about moderation after Easter- to give you body time to adjust.

Thank you all so much!

1. take a B12 supplement or if you can't find a specific B12 supplement take a B-Complex vitamen. B12 is essential for mental stability and is only found in animal byproducts.

2. When you go shopping, try to hit up your local co-ops, whole foods stores, or Trader Joe's. These places are Vegan friendly, and carry an enourmous variety of stuff you can eat.

3. If you have to read the label past the 8th ingredient, don't worry about. The point is to shed sins, not pounds. We are not called to be Pharisees.

4. As others have said, attend the services if at all possible. Also consider setting up a traditional Icon corner in your home (you can do this with icons printed off the internet. That's what I had for years as my Icon Corner) and say the prayers there.

5. Most of all, don't go it alone. It would be best if your spritual director was biritual and understood the ins and outs of the Eastern Fasting discipline and can guide you through the way.

6. Finally, if you fail every once and a while, don't beet yourself up. We've all gone out for dinner and been halfway through our plate of fettucini before realizing its a fasting day one time or another.

God doesn't want you to sit and worry and starve yourself because your hung up on all the rules. He wants us to become perfect, and the path to perfection is fasting. Most importantly remember that there is a point to the fasting. If all you see of our ways is the fasting, you won't understand Orthodoxy. We carry our crosses, but there is joy in so doing. May I suggest you go to the local Orthodox Church and attend the Pascha services. Pascha falls the week after Western Easter this year.

Joe Zollars

Joe Zollars

[Torah613]

I'm sorry if this is off-topic, but I have a question related to Eastern Catholics. What is the difference between Eastern Catholics and the Western Orthodox (http://www.westernorthodox.com/)? Are the Western Orthodox allowed to partake in Communion? I ask because I want to know whether I should be looking to attend a Western Orthodox parish when possible.

Eastern Rite Catholics and Latin Rite Catholics cannot partake of the Eucharist in a Western Rite Orthodox Church. However Western Rite Orthodox Christians can commune in Eastern Orthodox Churches. We're both Orthodox.

Joe Zollars

[Anhelyna]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to JosephtheKansan again.

Darn Rep nazis again :(

Joe great post - particularly the not beating yourself up for a mistake

[Monica, child of God]

6. Finally, if you fail every once and a while, don't beet yourself up.

Yeah don't beat yourself up but you might want to beet yourself up during the fast. Sorry I couldn't resist :P

M.

[Monica, child of God]

A note on iron since a few people mentioned it. Dairy milk and eggs are not great sources of iron. Meat is the best source of haem iron and plant foods are wonderful sources of non haem iron. While it is true that the body absorbs haem iron better than non haem iron, in a diet rich with plant foods and legumes is usually sufficent. Adding milk and eggs will not improve your iron situation much at all.

Vitamin C increases the absorption of plant based iron so eat your citrus, bell peppers, tomatoes and strawberries :)

Comparitive Sources of Iron
Chick peas (7oz) 6.2 mg
Baked beans (8oz) 3.2 mg
Spinach, boiled (3 oz) 4.0 mg
4 Dried figs (2oz) 2.1 mg
8 Dried apricots (1 oz) 2.1 mg

Egg, boiled 1.3 mg

Cow's milk (pint) 0.14 mg
Yoghurt (5 oz) 0.36 mg
Hard cheese (1oz) 0.12 mg

For extra iron, I stir a tablespoon of black strap molasses into a glass of soymilk. To me it tastes like a yummy milkshake. One tablespoon of black strap molasses has 3.0mg of iron and 137mg of calcium.

M.

[Marxist]

Obviously, I am not Orthodox- but I am asking (and expected to be granted) permission from my spiritual director to keep the Orthodox fast for the Great Lent. It will be the first time that I have fasted this extensively for this long....

God Bless you as you join us on the Lenten journey. My apologies if I offended you in any way in another thread. I misread your intention there and was rude in one of my posts. Again my apologies.

You know, Shannon McOrthodox has a nice ring to it!;)

[Matrona]

Second-any practical advice? Any ideas for a first timer? Any ideas for the days when it's difficult?

If you fall off the wagon, get back up again. Don't give up on the fast even if you have trouble sticking to it. It can be harsh keeping it if no one else in your house is helping.

I remember last year reading some threads here about moderation after Easter- to give you body time to adjust.

We try to limit our meals from Great and Holy Thursday to Pascha, so eating a lot of anything can bother your tummy after that. And overdoing it on things not allowed during the fast can do it, too. Just don't overeat and you should be fine--the only food problem I've had on Pascha is deciding what to eat first. :D

[eoe]

*COUGH*

B12 is essential for mental stability and is only found in animal byproducts.

Yeah don't beat yourself up but you might want to beet yourself up during the fast. Sorry I couldn't resist :P

The prosecution rests.^_^

[ShannonMcCatholic]

1. take a B12 supplement or if you can't find a specific B12 supplement take a B-Complex vitamen. B12 is essential for mental stability and is only found in animal byproducts.

2. When you go shopping, try to hit up your local co-ops, whole foods stores, or Trader Joe's. These places are Vegan friendly, and carry an enourmous variety of stuff you can eat.

3. If you have to read the label past the 8th ingredient, don't worry about. The point is to shed sins, not pounds. We are not called to be Pharisees.

4. As others have said, attend the services if at all possible. Also consider setting up a traditional Icon corner in your home (you can do this with icons printed off the internet. That's what I had for years as my Icon Corner) and say the prayers there.

5. Most of all, don't go it alone. It would be best if your spritual director was biritual and understood the ins and outs of the Eastern Fasting discipline and can guide you through the way.

6. Finally, if you fail every once and a while, don't beet yourself up. We've all gone out for dinner and been halfway through our plate of fettucini before realizing its a fasting day one time or another.

God doesn't want you to sit and worry and starve yourself because your hung up on all the rules. He wants us to become perfect, and the path to perfection is fasting. Most importantly remember that there is a point to the fasting. If all you see of our ways is the fasting, you won't understand Orthodoxy. We carry our crosses, but there is joy in so doing. May I suggest you go to the local Orthodox Church and attend the Pascha services. Pascha falls the week after Western Easter this year.

Joe Zollars

Joe ZollarsFirst of all - thank you for the practical adivice-- it is all very helpful. I have a background that involves nutrition, and so I am blessed to be already doing, or informed about, concerns like iron and B-12, etc. It has been awhile, though, since it's been of much personal concern, because my youngest is now over a year old, and we now have enough money to eat meat.

Thank you also for the reminder and admonition to prayerfully seek the proper spiritual disposition. That is the most important, I believe-- and also the reminder that we are called to begin and begin again-- rather than to never fail!

Interestingly, one of my regular confessors is studying to become a bi-ritual priest. I hadn't thought about asking his help, until your post- thank you, I know it will be his joy to help me!

[theoforos]

Pascha falls the week after Western Easter this year.

That brings to my mind a question I've been wondering about... What paschalion do the Eastern rite Catholics use? Gregorian or Julian? And which calendar in general?

[Kapusta]

Finally, if you fail every once and a while, don't beet yourself up.
Joe Zollars

Too, too funny, Joe^_^

Here's my few cents worth:

1) Having a spiritual father to guide you is paramount. Don't do the Fast without guidance. Consider that it is like a marathon. You wouldn't want to run the Boston marathon without having trained on less strenuous and shorter runs.

2) Keep your fast to yourself. Don't advertise. Accept food at the table of non-fasters, if they offer. Just maybe eat less. (see 6 and 7 below)

3) For many of us, it is more important to fast from what comes FROM our mouths, rather than from what goes in....

4) Fasting leaves a void, that satan can try to fill. Fill the void with PRAYER! Fasting and prayer, prayer and fasting...

5) To paraphrase Bishop Kallistos of Dioklea: 'At the end of our days, God will not ask you how many prostrations you made, and whether they were full prostrations or only from the neck down. Nor will He ask you if you read the fine print of your groceries to see if they contained any meat by-products. Rather, you will be asked "Did you feed the hungry? Did you visit the sick and the imprisoned? Did you shelter and clothe the poor?"' There's a message in there for us....something to do with legalism....

6) From Fr. Andrew of Holy Cross Parish:
One day the Tsar wanted to meet one of the great spiritual fathers of the Optina Monastery. He traveled to the monastery and the monk welcomed him into his cell. Having spent some time together, the monk brought out a loaf of bread and a jug of water, and invited the Tsar to eat with him. The Tsar accepted the invitation gladly, and they shared this meagre meal together, enjoying each other's company. When he was about to leave, the Tsar invited the old monk to visit him at his palace.

The time came for the monk to go and visit the Tsar. When the old man arrived at the palace, the Tsar welcomed him warmly, immediately taking him into the palatial dining chamber for a meal. The table was fully laden with all manner of vegetables, fruits, meat and drinks. The monk sat down with the Tsar, and they shared this grand meal together, enjoying each other's company.

This story is a classic lesson in Christian charity. When the Tsar ate with the monk, he did not complain that a meal of bread and water was below his dignity. Likewise, when the monk ate with the Tsar, he was not offended that he was given foods that he, as a monk, had vowed not to eat (meat, dairy). In each case, both guests accepted what was given to them with joy and gratitude. They knew that what was put before them was given by their host in a spirit of love and appreciation for their company. Such is the way that we can conduct ourselves when spending time with non-Orthodox (and/or new-Calendar) family and friends during the holidays: we receive what we are given, appreciating the love that it has been offered with; on the "flip side", if we are hosting, we may offer what is appropriate to our fast with equal amounts of love and appreciation for our guests. This then becomes not only an exercise in the proper spirit of fasting, but also in the virtue of godly hospitality.

7) Once two brothers came to a certain old man. It was his custom not to eat every day but when he saw them he received them joyfully and said, "A fast has its own reward, but he who eats for the sake of love fulfills two commandments: he leaves his own will and he refreshes his brothers."

Regarding Joe's comment about "beet"-ing yourself up if you "fall:" ...
I have been internally debating the merits and dangers of fasting for a while. I understand the merits well, but I have trouble avoiding the pitfall of pride. In addition to what you wrote, I feel that sometimes breaking the fast is a reminder to myself of my own imperfection; it is a well-needed adjustment to my attitude. It is a reminder to fast in humility, and to focus on God, His Will, and His Grace, for I cannot even fast (fasting well or otherwise) were it not for His Grace.


Please forgive my lengthy, and prideful diatribe. Please pray for me during my fast. I pray that these words and ideas help all those who read them. They are not original - rather, they are sourced from many who are spiritually advanced, and I posted here for the benefit of all who may not already have heard them.

[ShannonMcCatholic]

God Bless you as you join us on the Lenten journey. My apologies if I offended you in any way in another thread. I misread your intention there and was rude in one of my posts. Again my apologies.

You know, Shannon McOrthodox has a nice ring to it!;)
:hug: Oh , it was I who worried that I had offended...

My feet are firmly planted in Rome, and my heart in heaven..*lol* Though an Eastern Rite in union with Rome isn't entirely out of the question:D ...one thing is for certain- I could never make it without my time spent in Adoration, my time with my Jesus is my greatest earthly joy aand sweetens the often nearly crushing load I carry!

[ShannonMcCatholic]

A note on iron since a few people mentioned it. Dairy milk and eggs are not great sources of iron. Meat is the best source of haem iron and plant foods are wonderful sources of non haem iron. While it is true that the body absorbs haem iron better than non haem iron, in a diet rich with plant foods and legumes is usually sufficent. Adding milk and eggs will not improve your iron situation much at all.

Vitamin C increases the absorption of plant based iron so eat your citrus, bell peppers, tomatoes and strawberries :)

Comparitive Sources of Iron
Chick peas (7oz) 6.2 mg
Baked beans (8oz) 3.2 mg
Spinach, boiled (3 oz) 4.0 mg
4 Dried figs (2oz) 2.1 mg
8 Dried apricots (1 oz) 2.1 mg

Egg, boiled 1.3 mg

Cow's milk (pint) 0.14 mg
Yoghurt (5 oz) 0.36 mg
Hard cheese (1oz) 0.12 mg

For extra iron, I stir a tablespoon of black strap molasses into a glass of soymilk. To me it tastes like a yummy milkshake. One tablespoon of black strap molasses has 3.0mg of iron and 137mg of calcium.

M.I use iron cookware- and was actually planning today to go get some Floradix- after your post reminded me to watch my iron. I used to be really diligent whhen we couldn't afford meat, but have grown far more lax after eating red meat more regularly.

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Too, too funny, Joe^_^

Here's my few cents worth:

1) Having a spiritual father to guide you is paramount. Don't do the Fast without guidance. Consider that it is like a marathon. You wouldn't want to run the Boston marathon without having trained on less strenuous and shorter runs.

2) Keep your fast to yourself. Don't advertise. Accept food at the table of non-fasters, if they offer. Just maybe eat less. (see 6 and 7 below)

3) For many of us, it is more important to fast from what comes FROM our mouths, rather than from what goes in....

4) Fasting leaves a void, that satan can try to fill. Fill the void with PRAYER! Fasting and prayer, prayer and fasting... (see 8 below)

5) To paraphrase Bishop Kallistos of Dioklea: 'At the end of our days, God will not ask you how many prostrations you made, and whether they were full prostrations or only from the neck down. Nor will He ask you if you read the fine print of your groceries to see if they contained any meat by-products. Rather, you will be asked "Did you feed the hungry? Did you visit the sick and the imprisoned? Did you shelter and clothe the poor?"' There's a message in there for us....

6) From Fr. Andrew of Holy Cross Parish:
One day the Tsar wanted to meet one of the great spiritual fathers of the Optina Monastery. He traveled to the monastery and the monk welcomed him into his cell. Having spent some time together, the monk brought out a loaf of bread and a jug of water, and invited the Tsar to eat with him. The Tsar accepted the invitation gladly, and they shared this meagre meal together, enjoying each other's company. When he was about to leave, the Tsar invited the old monk to visit him at his palace.

The time came for the monk to go and visit the Tsar. When the old man arrived at the palace, the Tsar welcomed him warmly, immediately taking him into the palatial dining chamber for a meal. The table was fully laden with all manner of vegetables, fruits, meat and drinks. The monk sat down with the Tsar, and they shared this grand meal together, enjoying each other's company.

This story is a classic lesson in Christian charity. When the Tsar ate with the monk, he did not complain that a meal of bread and water was below his dignity. Likewise, when the monk ate with the Tsar, he was not offended that he was given foods that he, as a monk, had vowed not to eat (meat, dairy). In each case, both guests accepted what was given to them with joy and gratitude. They knew that what was put before them was given by their host in a spirit of love and appreciation for their company. Such is the way that we can conduct ourselves when spending time with non-Orthodox (and/or new-Calendar) family and friends during the holidays: we receive what we are given, appreciating the love that it has been offered with; on the "flip side", if we are hosting, we may offer what is appropriate to our fast with equal amounts of love and appreciation for our guests. This then becomes not only an exercise in the proper spirit of fasting, but also in the virtue of godly hospitality.

7) Once two brothers came to a certain old man. It was his custom not to eat every day but when he saw them he received them joyfully and said, "A fast has its own reward, but he who eats for the sake of love fulfills two commandments: he leaves his own will and he refreshes his brothers."

Regarding Joe's comment about "beet"-ing yourself up if you "fall:" ...
I have been internally debating the merits and dangers of fasting for a while. I understand the merits well, but I have trouble avoiding the pitfall of pride. In addition to what you wrote, I feel that sometimes breaking the fast is a reminder to myself of my own imperfection; it is a well-needed adjustment to my attitude. It is a reminder to fast in humility, and to focus on God, His Will, and His Grace, for I cannot even fast (fasting well or otherwise) were it not for His Grace.


Please forgive my lengthy, and prideful diatribe. Please pray for me during my fast. I pray that these words and ideas help all those who read them. They are not original - rather, they are sourced from many who are spiritually advanced, and I posted here for the benefit of all who may not already have heard them.
There is so much of so much value in your post-- thank you deeply for taking the time to write it!!

[ShannonMcCatholic]

--the only food problem I've had on Pascha is deciding what to eat first. :D:D

[Monica, child of God]

*COUGH*


B12 is essential for mental stability and is only found in animal byproducts.


The prosecution rests.^_^

LOL :D

I actually get my B12 from a vegetarian source: nutritional yeast. (http://www.bulkfoods.com/yeast.htm) It provides 8 mcg in 2 tablespoons or 133% of the RDA. I use it in gravies (gives them a chikeney flavor), fake cheese sauces and my favorite phony alfredo.

1 box soft silken tofu
2 tbsp nutritional yeast flakes
2 tbsp vegan parmesan substitute
2 cloves fresh garlic
1/2 to 1 cup unflavoured soy milk
~1 1/2 tsp salt or to taste
2 tbsp fresh basil, chopped fine (optional)

Cook fettuccini noodles. In your food processor, place all ingredients but the soy milk and chopped basil. Begin blending on low speed, and add the soy milk a little at a time, to achieve the desired consistency. When you have it the way you want it heat on medium-low, until just before it boils. Pour over the cooked fettuccini noodles, and sprinkle with the chopped basil.

I also sprinkle nutritional yeast on tomato based pasta dishes for a cheesy flavor.

[Anhelyna]

Christian Forums Message
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kapusta again.

Those blasted Rep nazis again - I'm sure they live here to catch us out.

Great post that - and good for reminding us about how to cope when we are in someone else's house and they have cooked a meal.

We are indeed not supposed to let folk know we are fasting - and it's not always easy.

[Torah613]

Yeah don't beat yourself up but you might want to beet yourself up during the fast. Sorry I couldn't resist :P

M.

Congrats on being the first to catch my deliberate mistake. One really can't go wrong with beets....

Joe Zollars

[Torah613]

That brings to my mind a question I've been wondering about... What paschalion do the Eastern rite Catholics use? Gregorian or Julian? And which calendar in general?
Depends on teh Parish.

In Chicago, Sts. Vlodymyr and Olha is all Old Calander, while St. Nicholas Cathedral down the street is all Gregorian Calander.

In the US by and large the Gregorian Calander is used both for the Paschalion and the Menaion.

Joe Zollars

[Torah613]

LOL :D

I actually get my B12 from a vegetarian source: nutritional yeast. (http://www.bulkfoods.com/yeast.htm) It provides 8 mcg in 2 tablespoons or 133% of the RDA. I use it in gravies (gives them a chikeney flavor), fake cheese sauces and my favorite phony alfredo.

1 box soft silken tofu
2 tbsp nutritional yeast flakes
2 tbsp vegan parmesan substitute
2 cloves fresh garlic
1/2 to 1 cup unflavoured soy milk
~1 1/2 tsp salt or to taste
2 tbsp fresh basil, chopped fine (optional)

Cook fettuccini noodles. In your food processor, place all ingredients but the soy milk and chopped basil. Begin blending on low speed, and add the soy milk a little at a time, to achieve the desired consistency. When you have it the way you want it heat on medium-low, until just before it boils. Pour over the cooked fettuccini noodles, and sprinkle with the chopped basil.

I also sprinkle nutritional yeast on tomato based pasta dishes for a cheesy flavor.

Wow we have so much in common. I used to do it that way, but I found a vegan B12 tablet that I take to make up for my B12 deficiency. Although I must confess to using nutritional yeast quite frequently....

Joe Zollars

[Monica, child of God]

Wow we have so much in common. I used to do it that way, but I found a vegan B12 tablet that I take to make up for my B12 deficiency. Although I must confess to using nutritional yeast quite frequently....

:) Yeah it is never a bad thing to take a supplement though I am terrible at remembering to do so. I havee a multivitamin for vegetarians that has B-12, iron and other stuff.

M.

[Marxist]

Depends on teh Parish.

In Chicago, Sts. Vlodymyr and Olha is all Old Calander, while St. Nicholas Cathedral down the street is all Gregorian Calander.

In the US by and large the Gregorian Calander is used both for the Paschalion and the Menaion.

Joe Zollars

You mean they can be in union with the Pope but they don't have to agree on what day it is?????:scratch:

[Llauralin]

You mean they can be in union with the Pope but they don't have to agree on what day it is?????:scratch:
And EO folks have grounds on which to find that odd? IIRC Greek monestaries are often on a different calander that Greek parishes...

A church I went to for a while actually celebrates many holidays twice in the same church, old calendar and new!

[Torah613]

right.

Besides even Rome realizes the Calander is the not the end all and be all determination of heresy or even schism.

Although I do think the EC's make more sense than our Orthodox System. They do everything on one calander or the other, and don't have this bipolar complex that we have with the Paschalion on the Old Calander and everything else on the new.

Joe Zollars

[Marxist]

And EO folks have grounds on which to find that odd?

A church I went to for a while actually celebrates many holidays twice in the same church, old calendar and new!

Well, we're not exactly law and order legalists are we? And Thank God for that.

I was really just trying to make a point about so-called "unity" with the Pope. You would think that for all the talk about unity you would at least want to celebrate Easter the same day he does. I celebrate it when my bishop does and that's really all the unity I need.

Regards.

[Torah613]

Well, we're not exactly law and order legalists are we? And Thank God for that.

I was really just trying to make a point about so-called "unity" with the Pope. You would think that for all the talk about unity you would at least want to celebrate Easter the same day he does. I celebrate it when my bishop does and that's really all the unity I need.

Regards.

But the Finnish Orthodox Church does not celebrate on teh same day. And many Latin Rite Catholilcs in the middle east celebrate according to our Paschalion.

While I understand what your saying and see your point, that's just not how unity with Rome works. Its an Eastern perspective on unity, and it just doesn't work in a western frame of mind.

Joe Zollars

[theoforos]

But the Finnish Orthodox Church does not celebrate on teh same day.

Also part of the Estonian Orthodox Church under the EP follows the new Paschalion. Some Estonian parishes are OC, though. And also all MP parishes in Finland and Estonia are OC (not so many MP Orthodox in Finland but quite a few in Estonia). I know there are bi-calendar Orthodox families in Finland. They celebrate everything twice, including the Pascha. I don't know how they get fasting to work out...

I prefer to call it 'new' Paschalion/calendar instead of 'Gregorian' or 'Meletian' because some people get offended if you call it Gregorian while others think it's simply stupid to make a difference between Gregorian and Meletian. Personally I don't care much about the calendar thing, but I'd like to celebrate Pascha at the same time as the rest of the Orthodox, rather than with the Catholics and the Protestants. But it's not my business to decide on that, I'll leave it to the bishops.

[Veritas_et_Puritas]

You mean they can be in union with the Pope but they don't have to agree on what day it is?????:scratch:

^_^ For some reason that made me laugh out loud.