Baptist/Anabaptist interesting combo

[Danfrey]

First, let me start out with saying that I am an Anabaptist for the lack of a better description.

I find the combo of Anabaptist/Baptist interesting. The two denominations are very far apart in theology. The biggest one that sticks out in my mind is "Two Kindoms Theology" this is a key teaching in Anabaptism. Please don't think I am trying to insult my Baptist brothers and sisters. I just thought it was a funny combo.

[rural_preacher]

First, let me start out with saying that I am an Anabaptist for the lack of a better description.

I find the combo of Anabaptist/Baptist interesting. The two denominations are very far apart in theology. The biggest one that sticks out in my mind is "Two Kindoms Theology" this is a key teaching in Anabaptism. Please don't think I am trying to insult my Baptist brothers and sisters. I just thought it was a funny combo.

Two Kindoms Theology?




--

[Athanasian Creed]

Is this what you mean regarding 'Two Kingdom' theology?? -

Luther's doctrine of the two kingdoms and two reigns of God teaches that God is the ruler of the whole world and that he rules in two ways.
He rules the earthly or left-hand kingdom through secular government (http://www.christianforums.com/wiki/Government), by means of law (i.e., the sword or force) and in the heavenly or righthand kingdom (his spiritual kingdom, that is, Christians and the Church) through the gospel (http://www.christianforums.com/wiki/Gospel) or grace.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_of_the_Two_Kingdoms

If so, how do you connect Luther with Anabaptists??:scratch: Luther was vehemently opposed to Anabaptists (meaning rebaptizers) Luther held that baptism imparted grace to the infant. Luther viewed baptism as a sign of justification. The Anabaptists denied both! :scratch:




Ray :wave:

[Danfrey]

Two Kindoms Theology?




--
There are those who can define this much better than I can, but I will give it shot. Please understand that I have strong opinions on this one and they will show in my description.

Two Kingdoms theology from one anabaptist perspective says that there is the kingdom of this world and there is the kingdom of God. The worldly kingdom is ordained by God to use force, but a member of the kingdom of God cannot participate in that use of force.

Many (including myself) would also see it as a noninvolvement in the political systems of this world. We are in the world, but not of the world.

My point in bringing up the Two Kingdoms issue was to show that there is a huge gap in the theology of Baptists and Anabaptists. I belive Baptists tend to be very patriotic, most Anabaptists are not.

This can be illustrated by reading the Schleitheim confession of faith. It is very short, but a good description of what the early anabaptists believed. You will have to google it as I don't have the rights to post a link.

[mlqurgw]

There are as many different theologies included under the Baptisy umbrella as there are flavors of ice cream. There are dispensational Baptists, Calvinistic Baptists, Reformed Baptists, Arminain Baptists and so on. As far as there being a difference in theology in the Anabaptists it would fit right in with the rest of us. ;)

[Danfrey]

There are as many different theologies included under the Baptisy umbrella as there are flavors of ice cream. There are dispensational Baptists, Calvinistic Baptists, Reformed Baptists, Arminain Baptists and so on. As far as there being a difference in theology in the Anabaptists it would fit right in with the rest of us. ;)
So much for my antibaptist stereo types. :)

I was nervous that if I spoke openly on here I might offend. Hopefully I can speak in a way that honors God and my brothers and sisters from all the different groups.

Blessings

[mlqurgw]

So much for my antibaptist stereo types. :)

I was nervous that if I spoke openly on here I might offend. Hopefully I can speak in a way that honors God and my brothers and sisters from all the different groups.

BlessingsI am sure you have much to bring but be warned there are several here who have no qualms about attacking you personally and be prepared to defend what you say. By far most are not that way but those who are make it difficult to discuss calmly our differences. Then of course there are those who are just heretical altogether.

[rural_preacher]

Danfrey,

Welcome to the Baptist/Anabaptist Forum!

:clap: :hug:
--

[HumbleMan]

I second the welcome!

Bienvinedos, Amigo!

[MrJim]

Hey Danfrey-welcome to the family.

The question you asked is asked by every anabaptist that comes this way.

You are correct in regards to the Doctrine of the Two Kingdoms being absent in most baptist theologies.

Are you familiar with David Bercot/Scroll Publishing?

[Danfrey]

Hey Danfrey-welcome to the family.

The question you asked is asked by every anabaptist that comes this way.

You are correct in regards to the Doctrine of the Two Kingdoms being absent in most baptist theologies.

Are you familiar with David Bercot/Scroll Publishing?
I am familiar with the writings of David Bercot. I have read...

Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up
The Kingdom that Turned the World Upside Down
Common Sense

I am in contact with the Deer Park Washington Disciples on a semi-regular basis. I attend a home meeting in Quakertown with another family that appreciates his writings. I appreciate his take on the early church. His writings will shake you out of your comfort zone.

[MrJim]

I am familiar with the writings of David Bercot. I have read...

Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up
The Kingdom that Turned the World Upside Down
Common Sense

I am in contact with the Deer Park Washington Disciples on a semi-regular basis. I attend a home meeting in Quakertown with another family that appreciates his writings. I appreciate his take on the early church. His writings will shake you out of your comfort zone.

Yeah, I've read those a few times over-great stuff.

Have you listened to any of his teaching CDs? He has a great one on the doctrine of the two kingdoms.

Did you know he was an Anglican priest at one time? He's here in PA now (in fact right here in Franklin County) having moved up from TX to be closer (I guess) to these plain mennonite folks up here.

[ZiSunka]

First, let me start out with saying that I am an Anabaptist for the lack of a better description.

I find the combo of Anabaptist/Baptist interesting. The two denominations are very far apart in theology. The biggest one that sticks out in my mind is "Two Kindoms Theology" this is a key teaching in Anabaptism. Please don't think I am trying to insult my Baptist brothers and sisters. I just thought it was a funny combo.

We've learned to live together pretty much in harmony and to love each other very much. I guess God allowed us to be brought together for a reason.

[Danfrey]

Yeah, I've read those a few times over-great stuff.

Have you listened to any of his teaching CDs? He has a great one on the doctrine of the two kingdoms.

Did you know he was an Anglican priest at one time? He's here in PA now (in fact right here in Franklin County) having moved up from TX to be closer (I guess) to these plain mennonite folks up here.
Menno,

I have been to the church he attends. We only spoke for a moment as he doesn't care to get alot of attention. I enjoyed the visit. He has chosen to attend a traditional mennonite church for several reasons. He has a very interesting CD on seeking fellowship that discusses some of the pros and cons of the different fellowship choices. I personally attend a small modern mennonite fellowship on the camp where I work and home based fellowship anytime I get the chance.

I have a set of 5 of his CD's coming in very soon. I am looking forward to it.

[MrJim]

Menno,

I have been to the church he attends. We only spoke for a moment as he doesn't care to get alot of attention. I enjoyed the visit. He has chosen to attend a traditional mennonite church for several reasons. He has a very interesting CD on seeking fellowship that discusses some of the pros and cons of the different fellowship choices. I personally attend a small modern mennonite fellowship on the camp where I work and home based fellowship anytime I get the chance.

I have a set of 5 of his CD's coming in very soon. I am looking forward to it.

I know of some folks over at the Shippensburg church. Are you conservative? Are you at at MennoniteUSA congregation?

[Danfrey]

I know of some folks over at the Shippensburg church. Are you conservative? Are you at at MennoniteUSA congregation?
This one will take some explaining.....

I left the Air Force in 2001 as a contientious objector
(applied long before 9/11)

Converted to anabaptist through my studies of the early church, contact with people online, reading the early writings and leading of the Holy Spirit

I was in a catch 22. I would consider myself a semi-conservative anabaptist (I like my internet, I have a television, I am not crazy about man made add-ons to scripture aka. church standards but I do hold to those things which prove out in scripture that most modern mennonites reject...nonconformity, veiling, non-involvement in politics, etc.) . I was unable to join a church because my recently deceased wife was my 3rd wife. As you probably know, remarriage is out of the question with most conservative anabaptists. We were converted after we were married and just didn't see that this was a sin that God continued to hold against us. Let me add that now that I am widowed, I will not remarry.

We eventually joined a Holdeman Mennonite Church in Missouri. They are the only conservative group that allows remarried people to join without seperating. My wife became a member 2 weeks before her death. She was baptised one Sunday and burried the next. I was glad that she felt excepted. After her death things were going pretty well until I started questioning the "One True Church" teaching. This eventually led to me leaving that church.

I currently attend a home meeting that leans toward the conservative side of the house. It is led by a younger man that was raised in the Lancaster Conference. He attend Charity Churches for quite awhile, but is not comfortable with the way they are headed. They are quickly becoming like most conservative mennonite churches.

I have respect for Mennonite Church USA and work for a camp that would be part of that larger body. I see the larger Mennonite body heading in directions that I am not comfortable with.

Off subject question....Do you know Gary Miles out in Washington. They are one of the home based groups that David Bercot endorses. They have a great website at http://www.deerparkwashingtondisciples.net/believers/main.php

If anyone is interested in reading a little about my wife and my journey during her last couple of months, we were blogging at the time. It is still online at http://freysinger.blogspot.com

[MrJim]

That is some life you've had so far.

Sorry that you lost your wife-I can't even imagine what you've gone through nor the pain you carry.

I am familiar with Charity but not Gary Miles.

[JPPT1974]

Sorry that you lost your wife
Praying for you and your family
Just lean on the Lord
He will strengthen & guide you!

[YesPraiseHim]

We were involved with the Deer Park fellowship. Great Caution to all interested - due to their false teachings we had to leave.

More information is coming on this. In the meantime, hold fast to the Word of God -- in doing this -- if you TRULY hold on to the Truth -- then you will not succomb.

[MadFingerPainter]

There are as many different theologies included under the Baptisy umbrella as there are flavors of ice cream. There are dispensational Baptists, Calvinistic Baptists, Reformed Baptists, Arminain Baptists and so on. As far as there being a difference in theology in the Anabaptists it would fit right in with the rest of us. ;)
i have no clue which one of those i am.

but i'm also not much into politics. can't say that i'm horribly patriotic either. i've never really gotten into any of the government stuff. in part to not understanding it and then because i don't generally like what i see.

hey there Danfrey :wave:

[MadFingerPainter]

This one will take some explaining.....

I left the Air Force in 2001 as a contientious objector
(applied long before 9/11)

Converted to anabaptist through my studies of the early church, contact with people online, reading the early writings and leading of the Holy Spirit

I was in a catch 22. I would consider myself a semi-conservative anabaptist (I like my internet, I have a television, I am not crazy about man made add-ons to scripture aka. church standards but I do hold to those things which prove out in scripture that most modern mennonites reject...nonconformity, veiling, non-involvement in politics, etc.) . I was unable to join a church because my recently deceased wife was my 3rd wife. As you probably know, remarriage is out of the question with most conservative anabaptists. We were converted after we were married and just didn't see that this was a sin that God continued to hold against us. Let me add that now that I am widowed, I will not remarry.

We eventually joined a Holdeman Mennonite Church in Missouri. They are the only conservative group that allows remarried people to join without seperating. My wife became a member 2 weeks before her death. She was baptised one Sunday and burried the next. I was glad that she felt excepted. After her death things were going pretty well until I started questioning the "One True Church" teaching. This eventually led to me leaving that church.

I currently attend a home meeting that leans toward the conservative side of the house. It is led by a younger man that was raised in the Lancaster Conference. He attend Charity Churches for quite awhile, but is not comfortable with the way they are headed. They are quickly becoming like most conservative mennonite churches.

I have respect for Mennonite Church USA and work for a camp that would be part of that larger body. I see the larger Mennonite body heading in directions that I am not comfortable with.

Off subject question....Do you know Gary Miles out in Washington. They are one of the home based groups that David Bercot endorses. They have a great website at http://www.deerparkwashingtondisciples.net/believers/main.php

If anyone is interested in reading a little about my wife and my journey during her last couple of months, we were blogging at the time. It is still online at http://freysinger.blogspot.com
i'm sorry to hear about your wife. if i may...i do have one question...considering your age...you're so young yet...you want to spend the remainder of your life with no spouse? please forgive me if this is being too bold or too nosey.

[MrJim]

Hey, glad to see this old thread brought over from the baptist forum!

[ZiSunka]

Wow! I thought this one was gone forever.

[Danfrey]

i'm sorry to hear about your wife. if i may...i do have one question...considering your age...you're so young yet...you want to spend the remainder of your life with no spouse? please forgive me if this is being too bold or too nosey.

Actually, this is a good question and one I like to talk about. First, I am too lazy to read my old post so I will recap. I have been married 3 times. The first two were in my years away from God. At the time I was an alcoholic and was more worried about making money, serving in the military and drinking than about being a good husband and father. Both marriages ended with my wife looking for attention elsewhere. When my third wife Candice and I married we decided we would serve God together and eventually converted to Anabaptist. As part of this journey we realized that remarriage was questionable if not forbidden. Because of the adultery, there was some question for us. We remained in the state we were in when we came to God but agreed that if anything ever happened to her that I would not remarry. Well, this did happen and now I have an opportunity to follow through on this commitment. There is a place in the kingdom of God for those who remain unmarried, and I have chosen to be one of those people.

On the purely selfish side of things :) I really don't have it in me to learn to live with another wife. My children are 12 and 15 and most ladies my age would still want a family. The thought of an infant in the house makes be break out in cold sweats.

[Jehane]

Man, I didn't realise you were such a sook! You've served in the air force & a baby makes you break out in a cold sweat? :confused:

If you're ealier wives also pre-deceased you, would you still feel the same way? (Not that I want anything to happen to them, just curious.)

[Danfrey]

Man, I didn't realise you were such a sook! You've served in the air force & a baby makes you break out in a cold sweat?

If you're ealier wives also pre-deceased you would you still feel the same way? (Not that I want anything to happen to them, just curious.)
If we are talking strictley biblical, I believe that the first wife passing away would allow for remarriage. Speaking personally, it would not be a choice that I would make. At this point the decision to remain single goes beyond the remarriage issue to a commitment to Candice and to God.

Besides that, I what woman in her right mind would want to be a fourth wife?

[Jehane]

Understood.

[MrJim]

Man, I didn't realise you were such a sook!

sook:scratch:

[Jehane]

I don't think it's translatable. Anything equivilant I can think of in yankee slang is much ruder than I intended. While this can be a derogatory term it is often a friendly tease with no hard feelings attached.

[MrJim]

I don't think it's translatable. Anything equivilant I can think of in yankee slang is much ruder than I intended. While this can be a derogatory term it is often a friendly tease with no hard feelings attached.

^_^For speaking the same language we don't often speak the same language-just let me know if I'm ever being sooky.^_^

[Danfrey]

I don't think it's translatable. Anything equivilant I can think of in yankee slang is much ruder than I intended. While this can be a derogatory term it is often a friendly tease with no hard feelings attached.
I think the correct translation would be wimp. I have lived through a terrorist bombing and a baby in the house would still make me break out in cold sweats. Dirty diapers, waking up at all hours of the night, crying for no apparent reason, etc, etc. The baby raising days are far behind me. At least when my teenagers need something the can tell me. That is if they take their headphones off long enough.

[Jehane]

Mmmm, I considered wimp but wimp's not quite the same thing. Close but not really. More acting like a baby & having a whinge. Like if we're shopping & the little one's start getting tired & crankey & having a grizzle they might be told not to sook. It is a fairly versatile word. It can be used to mean not sulk or pout. It can be used to mean don't be a silly-billy or to be brave.

[MadFingerPainter]

not all women your age want babies. and not all of women your age are against being a 4th wife. but what matters is what you've come to terms with in your own beliefs. and that's a good thing.

[Danfrey]

not all women your age want babies. and not all of women your age are against being a 4th wife. but what matters is what you've come to terms with in your own beliefs. and that's a good thing.
Thanks MFP, I understand what you are saying and appreciate the encouragement.

[MadFingerPainter]

that's one of the reasons i'm here. ~smiles~