Adam loved his wife.

[ronmathison]

I've started this new seperate-thread,

to address what I feel is a seperate-issue,

from that 'other' one.


Here goes:






People like to read a whole lot into this:

Gen 3:1-7

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." 6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

Last time I looked, handing something to someone who was there the whole time isn't deceiving them. You all just keep saying something that isn't Biblical. Eve was deceived by the Father of Lies, a fallen angel. Adam (like me and most husbands I know) just ate what his wife handed him. That is what the Bible says.






I feel (in my opinion), that Adam WOULD have tried to prevent his wife

from eating of the forbidden fruit, if he could have.


(It seems to me, that Eve was ALONE, when she was tempted by the serpent,

yet was WITH ADAM, when she then decided to eat of the 'forbidden-fruit'.)


I feel he was surprised, and shocked when she ate of

the forbidden-fruit.


I feel he then received of it, in order to NOT be

seperated from her, because he loved her very-much.


She would have been DRIVEN from the garden,

and then SLOWLY DIE, of old-age,

as her husband looked on in utter-helpless-agony,

leaving him WITHOUT his helper,

that God had provided him for his loneliness.

(to whom he had also grown attached)


Adam still sinned, however, by disobeying God.

Thoughts anyone?

[CrazyforYeshua]

In a way I agree with you, without the sin seperating them from God at that point, and being made in His image, they probably experienced "agape" love. But, I don't know if I would say that is what actually drove him to eat....

[twistedsketch]

Adam did choose keeping Eve over obeying God, but he was right there when Eve said "yes" to the temptation.

[Biliskner]

The text of Gen 3:1-7 serves no purpose for us to deduce that Adam was "apart/away" from his Wife while the serpent did its dirty.
Moreover, it says "She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it." key being: "who was with her". If it had said, she took a bit of fruit and picked another and ran off to where Adam was and gave it to him to eat and he ate, I could possibly agree with you that she was alone, but I don't think she was.
I agree with you that Adam sinned by choosing Eve over God... just think about it for a minute: For a few seconds/possibly minutes there, Eve was Fallen and Adam was not... wonder what would've happened if Adam did not partake of her sin?

[ronmathison]

Adam did choose keeping Eve over obeying God, but he was right there when Eve said "yes" to the temptation.

I disagree:

Please try to see it this way:


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gen 3:1-7

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made.
He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit
from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say,
'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden,
and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.
5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened,
and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In the above passage, we read about the serpent deceiving Eve,

yet NOWHERE is Adam mentioned, as being present.

(please try to imagine her being alone. Please at least consider that it's a possibility)

Now...


In the following passage (which comes right after it) , we read it start out:

WHEN the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food...

Yet, we're NOT told WHEN that was.

Could she have been ALONE when deceived (above) ?

And then (later) on (WHEN the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food...) ,

she was with Adam?



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food
and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom,
she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband,
who was with her, and he ate it.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In other words could there have been a space of time between the two events?


I feel there was.

At the very least the possibilty exists.

There seems to be a clear indication of

so called GAPS in scripture:

We read of Cain killing able,

and then being AFRAID of

being killed by others.


What others?


We read of Cain having a wife.

Where did she come from?


Considering that the bible says that Eve was deceived,

yet Adam wasn't, I feel personally,

that the above explaination MUST have been the case.


If adam wasn't deceived in his sin, what was his motive to sin?

To me the above reason is the ONLY logical reason to explain it.

(so he and his wife wouldn't be seperated)

[JContinuum]

Adam saw where Eve was and he was still in his place and fellowship with God. He made the choice to sin against God in his disobedience. He chose the "lower level." Eve was punished in her disobedience bringing pain into existence. Adam brought death, both spiritual and physical into existence.

He loved the woman more than he loved God, just as men do today. He wanted to please his wife more than he wanted to please God, just as men do today.

Look at God's language in explaining Adam's punishment.

Gen 3:17 "Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife . . ."

Adam was not decieved, which means he knew his wife was deceived, and he chose to please the one that was taken out of him, instead of pleasing the one that gave him life, just as men do today.

[oliveplants]

I guess it's possible Adam wasn't with Eve initially. Either way, Eve thought she was doing a good thing (being decieved); Adam apparently knew it was wrong and chose to do it anyway.

Maybe it was an attempt to make up to her for not telling her verbatum what God said about the fruit. (Eve wasn't there when God told Adam not to eat it. You notice she changed the rule a bit when she relayed it to the serpent.)

Focus on the Family has a book out called "Raising a Modern Day Knight" and it parallels Adam's and Jesus' response to temptation. Pretty interesting contrasts between what comes easy to a man and what a man should do.

[Stan53]

I am a bit mystified by at what the original post was all about.
There are a couple of things worth noting. I take it from reading the text Eve was alone when tempted. It leaves me with a question. What was Adam doing/where was he? What ever the answer he certainly wasn't guarding her as he ought to have been/was instructed by God to do. The next item is that Adam actually, when found out, trys to accuse God of being in the wrong. Well, that wasn't a really clever career move.
Now to the question: would have Adam tried to prevent Eve from doing what she did? No. I doubt it. Adam was to busy off doing his own thing to worry about Eve. Despite his earlier statement about Eve being "bone of my bones" he was too busy enjoying creation. That's number 1. Second, if Adam had tried to prevent Eve from her cause of action A) we wouldn't be where we are now, or/and B) some one else would have.

[Super Gnat]

I feel (in my opinion), that Adam WOULD have tried to prevent his wife

from eating of the forbidden fruit, if he could have.


(It seems to me, that Eve was ALONE, when she was tempted by the serpent,

yet was WITH ADAM, when she then decided to eat of the 'forbidden-fruit'.)


I feel he was surprised, and shocked when she ate of

the forbidden-fruit.


I feel he then received of it, in order to NOT be

seperated from her, because he loved her very-much.


She would have been DRIVEN from the garden,

and then SLOWLY DIE, of old-age,

as her husband looked on in utter-helpless-agony,

leaving him WITHOUT his helper,

that God had provided him for his loneliness.

(to whom he had also grown attached)


Adam still sinned, however, by disobeying God.

Thoughts anyone?
I always figured Adam was right there next to his wife, not saying anything, on the basis of verse 6, but I dunno if that's a big deal either way.

If Adam's motivation was what you posit, it still has a bunch of problems with it.
1. No matter where Eve was when she was tempted, in verse 6, she was very clearly with Adam when she ate the fruit. So obviously he didn't stop her, even though he easily could have at least suggested that she leave it alone.
2. Adam didn't know exactly what would happen as a result of eating the fruit. I mean, he must've known that death was a Bad Thing, but I doubt that he could imagine it in all the gory detail that we can. If anything, he probably would've expected instant death, not the slow sort.
3. Adam's motivation, if it is what you posit, demonstrates a stunning lack of faith in God. Did he truly believe that God could not fix the situation?
4. What's more, he didn't even try to talk to God about it. He could've waited until the cool of the evening, poured out the situation and his conflicted feelings to God, and God would've shown him the right way to go. But instead he decided to do what he thought in his own head to be the right action.
5. In your interpretation, he loves Eve more than he loves God. In a clear-cut choice between dwelling with Eve and dwelling with God, he put Eve first. And that ain't right.
6. And then, if Adam did it for Eve's love, then why did he blame her for giving him the fruit when God came to talk to them, instead of telling God what had happened?

I never really liked your interpretation of Adam's motivations (also espoused by such luminaries as Milton), because I feel like it tries to prettify Adam's sin by turning it into some kind of starcrossed love story. But if you examine its underpinnings, it's really, really messed up. In this interpretation, we see Adam going his own way, deciding for himself what is the right thing to do, and holding his own morality as being higher than God's. And then betraying that morality; when God comes, he blames the woman he theoretically did all for to try to get off the hook, because of course in the end it was all about himself and getting what he wanted: doing whatever he wanted to do, yet still abiding in the garden and living forever. There is nothing of true love in it.

[Advent Christian]

Hello all; :wave: I have a question/comment. Have you ever noticed who God’s Word lays the first sin at the feet of? It is not Eve, it is Adam. JContinuum to me was headed down the correct line of reason when he pointed to the scripture pertaining to the judgment of God to Adam
Adam had to make a free and clear choice at the time Eve handed him the fruit, eat or not eat; decide to go along with his wife or choose to follow God. I believe the love and desire Adam had for Eve was greater then that he had for God and this is the true sin which caused the condemnation of mankind.
While I agree totally that to disobey God is a sin; the eating of the fruit would have produced exactly the results God had laid before Adam, that of death entering the world. It was the conscious choice of Adam to choose his wife over God which condemned the fate of man into sin. Adam, not Eve opted to place more importance on another person then he did on God and this began to established the separation of man from God. This is why the Bible lays the failure at Adams feet, not because he was a man, or because he knew exactly what God had said concerning the fruit when Eve did not because she was not there, but simply because he decided to place something between himself and God; his love and desire for his wife. This is to me the true first sin; that of selfish desire. While Eve disobeyed God she had not broken the placement of His being center totally. Yes she had begun the slide and I believe would have ended up separating herself also if let go but as it stands I believe Satan simply used her to get God’s creation to turn away from Him.
Adam in a sense gave Satan part of his power. God gave man dominion over the earth, by choosing the way Adam did he in turn gave the world over to Satan.
Long story short Adam loved Eve (and his own desires for fleshly fulfillment,) more then he loved God and that sealed the fate of Man.
As always my love to all and May God Bless. :prayer:

[beetlequeendiva]

Ron - I think you're reading to much in to something we are not told about; we don't know if Adam was with Eve or not; it's not something that we are told. I have been taught that if we're not told something specificaly it's because it's not really important - the important thing about the story of Adam and Eve is that it was the fall from grace, not who's fault it was.

[twistedsketch]

1. No matter where Eve was when she was tempted, in verse 6, she was very clearly with Adam when she ate the fruit. So obviously he didn't stop her, even though he easily could have at least suggested that she leave it alone.
Thank you. End of debate.

[BenAdam]

I believe that Adam could have intercedded on Eve's behalf had he not eaten. As pointed out previously, Eve was deceived, Adam sinned.

[ronmathison]

Thank you. End of debate.

Not necessarily.

Please consider...

PERHAPS Adam PLEADED with Eve, to NEVER eat from the fruit,

IN VAIN.

Something like:

"No dear, the serpent is LYING to you. You will NOT become like God in the way that YOU expect to. "

Perhaps Eve was SO deceived, that NOTHING Adam did, or tried to do, could stop her, and, using her free-will...

Perhaps she had that nagging question:

What if?

and quickly ate from the fruit, while her HORRIFIED husband looked on, gasping in shock.

(more on this later)

[ronmathison]

I believe that Adam could have intercedded on Eve's behalf had he not eaten. As pointed out previously, Eve was deceived, Adam sinned.

Hmm....

Perhaps God would have provided Adam with ANOTHER helper, to replace her, once she died of old age.

or (?)

[twistedsketch]

Not necessarily.

Please consider...

PERHAPS Adam PLEADED with Eve, to NEVER eat from the fruit,

IN VAIN.

Something like:

"No dear, the serpent is LYING to you. You will NOT become like God in the way that YOU expect to. "

Perhaps Eve was SO deceived, that NOTHING Adam did, or tried to do, could stop her, and, using her free-will...

Perhaps she had that nagging question:

What if?

and quickly ate from the fruit, while her HORRIFIED husband looked on, gasping in shock.

(more on this later)
That wouldn't make sense since he ate it right after she did.

[ronmathison]

That wouldn't make sense since he ate it right after she did.

I feel it does make sense.


I feel he ate of the fruit as well,

so he WOULDN'T be seperated from her.


(Please re-read the o.p. :http://www.christianforums.com/t2560853-adam-loved-his-wife.html )


After all:

Adam WASN'T deceived (as scripture clearly tells us)

[twistedsketch]

Yeah, what he did was worse, as he did it anyway. But I wouldn't make it longer and more drawn out that this needs to be. I take Milton as fiction, not Scripture.

[ronmathison]

Yeah, what he did was worse, as he did it anyway.

I disagree.

I feel what SHE did was worse.

She sinned to get extra powers (to be like God),

Whereas Adam sinned to be with his wife.

Have a nice day.

:)

[twistedsketch]

I disagree.

I feel what SHE did was worse.

She sinned to get extra powers (to be like God),

Whereas Adam sinned to be with his wife.

Have a nice day.

:)
When you sin and are decieved, that's bad enough. When you're not decieved about a sin and choose to do it anyway, that is sheer, undiluted rebellion.

[Super Gnat]

Not necessarily.

Please consider...

PERHAPS Adam PLEADED with Eve, to NEVER eat from the fruit,

IN VAIN.

Something like:

"No dear, the serpent is LYING to you. You will NOT become like God in the way that YOU expect to. "

Perhaps Eve was SO deceived, that NOTHING Adam did, or tried to do, could stop her, and, using her free-will...

Perhaps she had that nagging question:

What if?

and quickly ate from the fruit, while her HORRIFIED husband looked on, gasping in shock.

(more on this later)There is no reason whatsoever to believe that this is true.

[ronmathison]

When you sin and are decieved, that's bad enough. When you're not decieved about a sin and choose to do it anyway, that is sheer, undiluted rebellion.

Eve rebelled JUST AS MUCH as Adam did.

BOTH of them KNEW that they were disobeying God 100%.

However...

Eve expected to 'be like God' ,

whereas Adam expected to

NOT be SEPERATED from Eve.

[ronmathison]

There is no reason whatsoever to believe that this is true.

What I'm attempting to do (with prayer),

is to EXPLORE how:

Eve was deceived , and NOT Adam.


I feel that this thread,

has given a good answer to that.


If you have a better answer

as to how EVE was DECEIVED,

and NOT Adam,

please let's do hear it.

[Super Gnat]

Eve believed the serpent, and ate. Adam did not believe the serpent, yet still ate because he wanted to disobey God. I don't know why you insist that Adam's sin must have been for love of Eve. If it was, then why did he turn right around that evening and try to blame her?

[ronmathison]

Eve believed the serpent, and ate. Adam did not believe the serpent, yet still ate because he wanted to disobey God. I don't know why you insist that Adam's sin must have been for love of Eve.

If it was, then why did he turn right around that evening and try to blame her?

I feel Adam didn't just 'disobey God for kicks.' as you seem to suggest.


After all, he WOULD have been seperated from his wife,

if he did not. She WOULD have died , apart from him.


As per your question:


Perhaps it was out of FEAR of God,

that they BOTH

tried to shift the blame to someone else.


Eve blamed the serpent.

Adam blamed Eve.


Have a nice day.

:)

[Super Gnat]

I feel Adam didn't just 'disobey God for kicks.' as you seem to suggest.Well, not for kicks exactly, but because he wanted to follow his own way, not God's way. I don't find that so hard to believe; I do the same thing every single day, for the same banal reason.


After all, he WOULD have been seperated from his wife,

if he did not. She WOULD have died , apart from him.


As per your question:


Perhaps it was out of FEAR of God,

that they BOTH

tried to shift the blame to someone else.


Eve blamed the serpent.

Adam blamed Eve.
I guess this is what I'm seeing. Adam wanted to eat of the forbidden fruit more than he wanted to obey God. Whatever superficial reason he may have had for this, it boiled down to the fact that he was putting his wishes ahead of God's. And he wanted to live without Eve more than he wanted to die with Eve. (Remember, at this point they were unaware that disobedience would result in being cast out of the garden.) So whatever the superficial reason was, I find it unlikely that it had anything to do with being with Eve.

Have a nice day.

:)
And you as well! I'm going to go make origami soon, so I may not be able to reply as quickly as I have been.
:wave:

[ronmathison]

(Remember, at this point they were unaware that disobedience would result in being cast out of the garden.)

For now:

Perhaps. Yet:

They knew they would DIE.


And they did.


I feel he wanted to be with her,

wherever she went.

:)

[calidog]

The text of Gen 3:1-7 serves no purpose for us to deduce that Adam was "apart/away" from his Wife while the serpent did its dirty.
Moreover, it says "She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it." key being: "who was with her". If it had said, she took a bit of fruit and picked another and ran off to where Adam was and gave it to him to eat and he ate, I could possibly agree with you that she was alone, but I don't think she was.
I agree with you that Adam sinned by choosing Eve over God... just think about it for a minute: For a few seconds/possibly minutes there, Eve was Fallen and Adam was not... wonder what would've happened if Adam did not partake of her sin?

since sin came by the man, we would be sinless despite what ever eve did

[daverain]

.






since sin came by the

man, we would be sinless

despite what ever eve did




Correct,


since...



We wouldn't


have been


-BORN- ,


-EVER- ,


as it were.



( hello to all )



Peace in Christ.



.

[calidog]

.







Correct,


since...



We wouldn't


have been


-BORN- ,


-EVER- ,


as it were.



( hello to all )



Peace in Christ.



.if adam never sinned we would'nt have been born?

[Super Gnat]

For now:

Perhaps. Yet:

They knew they would DIE.


And they did.


I feel he wanted to be with her,

wherever she went.

:)
Then why did he blame her?

[ronmathison]

.







Correct,


since...



We wouldn't


have been


-BORN- ,


-EVER- ,


as it were.



( hello to all )



Peace in Christ.



.

Good point.

(hello daverain)

What my friend daverain means (I feel),

is that Adam had sex with Eve,

so...

Through Adam, (Eve's) sin entered the world.

Ah. That IS a VERY neat way to look at things.

Have a nice day, all.

:)

[Super Gnat]

*blinks* I... don't think that's a correct interpretation. Sinfulness passes down through the man's seed, yes? So if the sin was coming through Eve and not Adam, it would've stopped with her.

[ronmathison]

*blinks* I... don't think that's a correct interpretation. Sinfulness passes down through the man's seed, yes? So if the sin was coming through Eve and not Adam, it would've stopped with her.

Hmmm.

We're not told through scripture WHO'S sin entered the world.

However:


For the sake of exploration,

let's suppose your hypothesis is correct, and that the sin of Adam, entered the world.

Even IF that's the case, it was BECAUSE of EVE, that Adam sinned, in the first place (although he sinned secondly) .

So, even IF it was his sin entering the world, we can ultimately trace it back to the 'old-nucklehead' herself.

Have a nice day.

:)