Do you call your preacher "pastor"?

[charlesjTEXAX]

Preachers are not “Pastors.”

The New Testament (New Covenant) does not refer to its evangelists or preachers as “pastors.” This is a denominational misuse of the term, just as man has made up the office of “pope”, calling a minister "reverend", or Father. Nor is there a difference between an evangelist and a gospel preacher, a man who preaches for a local church as Timothy did at Ephesus.
The one place where the Greek word “POIMEN” is translated “pastor’ in the English New Testament is Eph 4:11

Ephesians 4:11 11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors (poimen) and teachers,

There is a very clear line of distinction between evangelists and pastors. An evangelist is a preacher and a pastor is an elder.
Even this distinction has been corrupted through denominational tradition. The denominational pastor system exists in the form of a pastor over a local church, but without elders. An attempt to justify such an arrangement in the face of clear New Testament teaching is supposedly on the grounds that no man is good enough to meet the qualifications of elders laid out in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1; therefore, many denominational churches do not have elders. The distinction between pastors, which are “elders”, and evangelists as clearly revealed in Eph 4:11 is glossed over by denominational tradition and usually explained int this manner: a traveling preacher is an evangelist, but a local preacher is a pastor. Of course, there is no Bible proof. Just tradition.

In the New Testament, however, preachers and evangelists were the same without distinction. In 1 Tim 1:3 and the rest of the epistle to follow, Paul left Timothy at Ephesus to do a certain work with the church which was there. That church had elders. This we know from Acts 20:17-35. There in the Ephesians 4:11 11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, Ephesian church an evangelist (see 2 Tim 4:5) worked together with the pastors (elders) on a local basis. This evangelist was commanded to stay at Ephesus and work, not to go from place to pace. Also, in *** 1:5 Paul eft Titus in Crete to “set I order the things that were wanting, and appointed elders.” Titus could stay at Crete for as long as it required him to set in order what was lacking. Hence, evangelist are not to be equated with traveling preachers; nor are pastors to equated with local preachers who guide the church without elders. A pastor is one thing, and a preacher another. But the evangelist and the preacher are the same.

The New Testament (New Covenant) that God made and His Son sealed has the church government, how to worship the Lord, how to be saved, how to live your life before the Lord and many other church functions. This covenant is like an agreement between man and God. Man must meet the terms of the New Covenant and NOT changed the government of the church. In the government of the church you will find elders, deacons and a preacher, but your will NOT find a pope, a preacher that is called “pastor, reverend, father etc. etc.”
The government of the church began to change around the second century. Since that time, man has polluted the church. Look around you and you can see the pollution. The Lord still has His church and it is organized by the terms of the New Covenant. The true church of our Lord is autonomous; it has elders, deacons and a minister (preacher). This is the way it is identified from all the false ones.

The number of elders for each local church is always in the plural in the New Testament. This is another distinguishing characteristic of the church which follows the pattern of sound words.
The following passages need only to be read from the Bible for one to be convinced this was the New Testament order. There was a plurality of elders in each of the churches at Iconium, Derbe, and Lystra as appointed by Paul and Barnabas (Acts 14:23); At Jerusalem the church had a number of elders (Acts 15:2, 4, 6, 22); The church at Ephesus had a plural number (Acts 20:17,28); the epistle to the Philippian saints with their “bishops and deacons” (Phil 1:1) (Also, bishop and elder are one and the same Greek word) The church of Thessalonians had a number of “them” that were “over” the saints (1Thes 5:12; and so also Titus’ job was to appoint elders in each place. The churches of Christ at Iconium, Derbe, Lystra, Jerusalem, Ephesus, Philippi, Thessalonica, and the churches in the cities of Crete without
exception had elders. (Plural!)
There are no examples to the contrary in the whole of the New Testament. The plurality of elders in each local church is God’s plan for his churches throughout time. I
The departure from this order of things was gradual, resulting finally in a falling away from the New Testament pattern. Paul predicted that from among the eldership would “men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them” (Acts 20:30). That falling away resulted in church located in Rome. This Roman church has “many daughters” that go by various names.

[Col]

No. I just call him by his first name.

[aggie03]

History would seem to suggest that the elders in local congregations were the ones doing the preaching. What do you all think about that?

[HeyHomie]

I call him "Jeff." And when I refer to him, I say "the preaching minister at my church."

Is really necessary to split hair over semantics like this?

[CrazyforYeshua]

The definition of Pastor is shepard, to be over the flock, which is the church. Elders are leadership along with the Pastor, for spiritual matters in the church.
Whether I call him Art, or Pastor Art, doesn't matter. I know God has appointed him to do what he does.

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[aggie03]

The definition of Pastor is shepard, to be over the flock, which is the church. Elders are leadership along with the Pastor, for spiritual matters in the church.
Whether I call him Art, or Pastor Art, doesn't matter. I know God has appointed him to do what he does.

So you think that elders and pastors are two different things? I am assuming this from the things that you posted :)

[aggie03]

I call him "Jeff." And when I refer to him, I say "the preaching minister at my church."

Is really necessary to split hair over semantics like this?

Well, the New Testament does spend a significant amount of time talking about elders and the qualifications for becomming one. I'm not sure that I would call this "splitting hairs".

In fact, there are very, very few things that I would ever call that when it comes to the Bible and learning more about it - so long as our goal is to learn more about God and how to be pleasing to him :)

[CrazyforYeshua]

So you think that elders and pastors are two different things? I am assuming this from the things that you posted :)

Yes, I do. The Pastor is the shepard over the flock, the main preacher, if you will. The elders are appointed by the Pastor, under Gods annointing, as a board of men to help him be accountable, and to help with the spiritual matters of the church. They also teach, counsel, etc.

[aggie03]

Yes, I do. The Pastor is the shepard over the flock, the main preacher, if you will. The elders are appointed by the Pastor, under Gods annointing, as a board of men to help him be accountable, and to help with the spiritual matters of the church. They also teach, counsel, etc.

I am assuming that this is how the local congregation where you are a member is setup, so if that's wrong, please correct me :).

Could you show me where you derive this understanding from the Scriptures, apart from an understanding that you have gained from experience where you are a member?

[Frame1520]

No I do not call him pastor. As stated above, an Elder is a Pastor. However, I would not think it inappropriate to call him Pastor, considering he does all of the work of a biblical elder. He just does not have the title of elder.

He is the "Minister" or "Preacher" most of the time. But mainly, just Dad.

[aggie03]

Whether or not one does the "work of an elder" doesn't make them an elder/bishop/shepherd. So even though they may do some of the things that elders do, a preacher is not an elder.

[Frame1520]

Whether or not one does the "work of an elder" doesn't make them an elder/bishop/shepherd. So even though they may do some of the things that elders do, a preacher is not an elder.

Did it sound as though I was saying that? If it did, thats not what I meant.

[aggie03]

Did it sound as though I was saying that? If it did, thats not what I meant.

No, it didn't sound like that's what you were saying :) And that would also run contrary to some of the other things that I've seen you say on here. Sometime I just post things that I think will help out people that happen to read through our discussions, and sometimes I just post things because I like to hear myself talk (j/k ;) )

[Mrs. Enigma]

No, I don't call preacher's pastor cuz I was raised in the coC, so I was taught not to.

[aggie03]

Do you only practice that because you were brought up that way, or do you practice that because you believe it to be to true based upon what the Bible says?

[Mrs. Enigma]

Do you only practice that because you were brought up that way, or do you practice that because you believe it to be to true based upon what the Bible says?

Well, seeing as I am not attending a coC, I don't have to worry about that.
We home church with some other people who used to be in the coC. The men take turns giving lessons, so there is not really any preacher.
I guess, I practice calling preachers "preacher" because that is what they are. Some may also be a pastor, though.
I am aware of the Biblical reasons, as I said my dad is a coC preacher, so I was fully taught the why and wherefore of every belief.

[constance]

I call mine "Honey"

:)

[jturpin4]

I call mine by his first name.

[ParsonJefferson]

Well, I probably better begin with a clarification.

I've been a full-time preacher/pastor in a "northern" (we use instruments) Church of Christ for 20 years. In fact, the church I've pastored for the past 17 years just changed our name to "Christian Church" this past year - largely due to name confusion with the United Church of Christ and Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Personally, I have chosen NOT to make a big issue out of whether people call me "preacher" or "pastor". And though I stay away from it as much as humanly possible, I'm not going to chew somebody out for calling me "Reverend". Honestly, here in the Northern Midwest, MOST people are accustomed to saying "Pastor".

In our local newspaper, in the obituaries, the "officiant" at funerals is ALWAYS referred to as "Reverend". It is their policy, so there's not much to do about it.

I believe we have far more important things to focus our energy on.

[WesWoodell]

I believe we have far more important things to focus our energy on.

Not me I think we should argue about every mundane detail and tell people they're going to hell if they dare to disagree with us. :P

[aggie03]

Not me I think we should argue about every mundane detail and tell people they're going to hell if they dare to disagree with us. :P

Shhhh!!!! Don't tell them that we're going to do that or we won't catch anyone by surprise! ;)

[stone]

rabbi

*and i hope you guys don't mind my passing through*

[woman.at.the.well]

(as do all the members of our congregation) call our preacher "pastor."

[aggie03]

(as do all the members of our congregation) call our preacher "pastor."

Why do you call them that?

[*Lu*]

Just call him by his first name, but wen im talking about him to people tht dont kno him i call him our pastor

[Churdy_Lyn]

Here's another perspective for you...
I am a member of a church of Christ congregation that practices mutual edification.
We have no one particular preacher. The men of the congregation take turns preaching, teaching, reading, presiding at the Lord's Table, praying and leading songs, all of the tasks required for our worship together.

Don't know how many of you may be aware of any congregations like mine. (I have always attended in mutual edification congregations)

And no, I've never called any man pastor.

[aggie03]

Here's another perspective for you...
I am a member of a church of Christ congregation that practices mutual edification.
We have no one particular preacher. The men of the congregation take turns preaching, teaching, reading, presiding at the Lord's Table, praying and leading songs, all of the tasks required for our worship together.

Don't know how many of you may be aware of any congregations like mine. (I have always attended in mutual edification congregations)

And no, I've never called any man pastor.

This is actually my favorite setup and most like what I think the first century church was like. Historically we can determine that there was not a single person who did all of the teaching in local congregations, but there were a few men who usually did most of the teaching - the elders. Aside from them, anyone who had an insight was given opportunity to share that with the rest of the congregation. This is the best way to avoid a clergy-laity distinction from beginning. If everyone is fulfilling their priestly duties, then there is no need to have an "official" priesthood.

[hoadelphos]

But a paster can be a preacher too. :thumbsup:

[GettingIntoYou]

I call my preacher Doc.

=]

[cremi]

Depends on where I'm going to church. If I am going to a church of Christ, I definitely use the term, "preacher" or "minister", (otherwise I might have tomatoes thrown at me!:) ) but if I am in a Chirstian church, then I use the term "pastor".

Technically, I think the CoC is correct on their useage of the proper term, but the truth is that in our culture and world today, the term "pastor" has taken on a different meaning than the Greek intended. In that sense, I do think people can make too big of an issue out of something quite minor.

It's sort of like the word, "gay". Originally, it was meant to describe being happy, but today the term is used to describe something entirely different.

[WesWoodell]

Depends on where I'm going to church. If I am going to a church of Christ, I definitely use the term, "preacher" or "minister", (otherwise I might have tomatoes thrown at me!:) ) but if I am in a Chirstian church, then I use the term "pastor".

Technically, I think the CoC is correct on their useage of the proper term, but the truth is that in our culture and world today, the term "pastor" has taken on a different meaning than the Greek intended. In that sense, I do think people can make too big of an issue out of something quite minor.

It's sort of like the word, "gay". Originally, it was meant to describe being happy, but today the term is used to describe something entirely different.


Good post - I agree with you.

[aggie03]

Depends on where I'm going to church. If I am going to a church of Christ, I definitely use the term, "preacher" or "minister", (otherwise I might have tomatoes thrown at me!:) ) but if I am in a Chirstian church, then I use the term "pastor".

Technically, I think the CoC is correct on their useage of the proper term, but the truth is that in our culture and world today, the term "pastor" has taken on a different meaning than the Greek intended. In that sense, I do think people can make too big of an issue out of something quite minor.

It's sort of like the word, "gay". Originally, it was meant to describe being happy, but today the term is used to describe something entirely different.

I agree that the use of the term pastor to describe someone who is not an elder is not the way that the Biblical term was originally used. You are also correct in stating that very few people understand the difference between what a "preacher" is and what a "pastor" or "elder" is.

I am frequently asked if I am a "pastor" when I study the Bible with people, to which I usually reply with a "Yes, I am. I preach at ..." The reason that I do this is that I am more interested in sharing the gospel with people than with correcting their use of the term pastor. After someone has been obedient to the Gospel, believed in Christ as the Son of God, and been saved from their sins, then we can talk about what the correct term is. Most people, at that point, are more than willing to use the correct words in the correct way. We can very easily make that single word the very thing that keeps people from coming to Christ. We must be careful of that.

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I call my preacher pastor as he is a member of the board of elders. We are not usual in that manner but every elder in our church is ordained upon being elected an elder. We do not have the traditional hired gun preacher but rather a board of Godly men with gifts that they all use including one with an amazing gift for preaching. We also have a youth minister who preachers and we do not call him pastor.

Although I would say that the definition of the word has changed over the years as English is a living language and it is not wrong, according to the dictionary, to refer to a preacher as a pastor.

[Waymark]

Here's another perspective for you...
I am a member of a church of Christ congregation that practices mutual edification.
We have no one particular preacher. The men of the congregation take turns preaching, teaching, reading, presiding at the Lord's Table, praying and leading songs, all of the tasks required for our worship together.

Don't know how many of you may be aware of any congregations like mine. (I have always attended in mutual edification congregations)

And no, I've never called any man pastor.

Hello Churdy-Lyn! :wave: Our congregation is like yours (mutual edification). My husband was raised in a mutual edification congregation.

Like you, we don't use "pastor" as a title.

In awe of Him, :bow:

Waymark

[gratefulgrace]

A preacher can be a pastor but necessarily. I have had leadership in my church that truly had a shepherds heart for the people which is how I understand the term. To lead and guide the flock. In other cases I have had leadership that are awesome preachers of God's word but were more removed fromt he people, poor counselling and other people skills . I think both terms are prefectly legitimately given attention in scripture. No one will perfectly fill all roles in the church and although I have no problem with calling my pastor, Pastor I balk at the word reverend as I think this creates too big a distinciton between the congregants and the leadership that was never spiritually intended.

[bithiah2]

i call the pastor "Pastor" when i speak to him or mention him. that is his calling and what he is. i don't call him by his first name, personally i think that is too common for me. "Pastor" is comfortable for me, and i have no problem with it.
blessings
bithiah2

[Randi]

I call my preacher "dad". But besides that fact, he's not a pastor..he's a preacher. :) ;)