Holy Water

[SeenAndUnseen]

Can we Anglicans/Episcopalians take holy water home to use for personal devotions (as I always did in the RC church)? The reason I ask is that someone I know recently asked to have some water blessed, but the reverend told him it had to only be for the church itself and that it is not supposed to go outside the church. I thought this sounded odd.

[PaladinValer]

Yes!

[TomUK]

As far as i know then you an individual is free to use blessed holy water in their own devotions.

That actually reminds of another thought i had some time ago, but i'll raise that in another thread.

[RobNJ]

Matter of fact, after going up & having a plastic cup of it, I joined the line of people bringing bottles to take some of it home with them at the Feast of the Theophany.

As our priest calls it "Restored Water"

[AngCath]

Just use it reverently

[Albion]

Can we Anglicans/Episcopalians take holy water home to use for personal devotions (as I always did in the RC church)? The reason I ask is that someone I know recently asked to have some water blessed, but the reverend told him it had to only be for the church itself and that it is not supposed to go outside the church. I thought this sounded odd.

Hey, you said it. You're an Anglican/Episcopalian. You can do anything and believe anything.

But that aside, I would never recommend deliberately flouting your pastor's wishes in matters like this. There is a good reason for keeping the holy water in church and not using it in the RC fashion, and I'd recommend respecting his feelings in the matters, especiallly since there is nothing really critical about doing it any other way.

[gitlance]

How about you ask if he would bless some water specifically for you to take home? If not, find a priest who will. ;)

I, for one, love to have holy water and to occasionally go throughout the house and sprinkle everything with it, realizing that anything can become a sacramental.

[Albion]

How about you ask if he would bless some water specifically for you to take home? If not, find a priest who will. ;)I, for one, love to have holy water and to occasionally go throughout the house and sprinkle everything with it, realizing that anything can become a sacramental.



Sometimes it's hard to follow the mindset that argues the importance of being obedient to "the church," but only until something comes along that you really really really disagree with. Then we read a suggestion like it's fine to defy your pastor's instruction, start shopping around for one who will undercut his authority...and because of a great need to turn sofas into "sacramentals!?"

That's probably exactly the kind of thing the priest in the OP was trying to ward off!

[Mysterium_Fidei]

Sometimes it's hard to follow the mindset that argues the importance of being obedient to "the church," but only until something comes along that you really really really disagree with. Then we read a suggestion like it's fine to defy your pastor's instruction, start shopping around for one who will undercut his authority...and because of a great need to turn sofas into "sacramentals!?"

That's probably exactly the kind of thing the priest in the OP was trying to ward off!
Um... in all honesty we just thought Father was being a bit weird. (We attend the same parish) He's been here with us since we've been growing more and more High Church. He isn't exactly an Anglo-Catholic, and nor is he our pastor. He's a retired priest we've hired to administer the Sacraments for the time being.

[gitlance]

Sometimes it's hard to follow the mindset that argues the importance of being obedient to "the church," but only until something comes along that you really really really disagree with. Then we read a suggestion like it's fine to defy your pastor's instruction, start shopping around for one who will undercut his authority...and because of a great need to turn sofas into "sacramentals!?"

That's probably exactly the kind of thing the priest in the OP was trying to ward off!

In addition to AnglicanCrusader's reply, their one priest does not constitute "The Church". If a priest is denying you a sacrament for no apparent reason (meaning, you are not in a state of sin which would prevent you from receiving said sacrament), then ask the priest again; and, if he still won't give it to you without warrant, find a priest who will.

[Albion]

Um... in all honesty we just thought Father was being a bit weird. (We attend the same parish) He's been here with us since we've been growing more and more High Church. He isn't exactly an Anglo-Catholic, and nor is he our pastor. He's a retired priest we've hired to administer the Sacraments for the time being.

Well sure, but when we read that sprinkling all the furniture with water is thought be a holy and beneficial practice, we ought to pause and reflect. May the priest not have had GOOD REASONS for answering as he did? Possibly it would be appropriate to discuss his reasons further with him before deciding to dismiss his answer. Right?

I'm not saying that anyone in your parish was planning to do this or that in reaction, because the OP merely put the question out there. But you see how the responses have gone.

Any good pastor will try to restrain the impulses of sincere parishioners whose ideas about spirituality have gone too far. And in this case, the individual came to him and asked for the rector's guidance...then didn't care for it. The priest doesn't seem to have been on any campaign himself.

Would that clergy in another faith we are familiar with would be as up front when prayers are being directed by their people to stains on concrete underpasses, office windows and so on. Those priests seem usually to shrug their shoulders and take the position that "their intention is good, even if the belief is unfounded, etc.."

What do we think we have a pastor for? Why do we assume that his considerable training didn't teach him the right answer when we approach him with a question? ( You can see that I am taking this little issue as symptomatic of a bigger trend.)

Like a good parent, sometimes a dedicated pastor has to take a stand, even if going alone would be easier and make him more popular.

Of course he might still be weird in other ways. :)

[pmcleanj]

Okay, I'll be the one to ask the stupid low-churcher question: Just how does one use 'holy water' in personal devotions? And for classical Anglican purposes, what constitutes 'holy water'?

(Of course, I've played enough Call of Cthulhu and seen enough vampire movies to know the non-devotional urban-legend uses of holy water, but I'm assuming that's irrelevant to this discussion; and anyway I'm here to tell you that a reeally good Power-versus-power roll on D100 is more reliable;) ).

The only Prayer-book rite I know of for blessing water is in the context of baptism. In the same context I am familiar with the idea of asperging the congregation as remembrance of their own baptism. And it's quite common to see people bless themselves or their spouse and children, as they pass the font on the way up to the sanctuary rail for communion, by dipping their fingers into the font and signing the Cross on the forehead with the water.

In personal devotional use of holy water do you asperge yourself and family? Or do you just keep a vessel out for signing yourself with the cross?

[gitlance]

So, what do we do when we have pastor-priests who are telling us we should believe in universalism, or should reject the idea that Jesus is the Only Way, or that the Real Presence is an outdated religious myth?

Do we believe them and do as they say? Or, rather, do we do as Christians have done from the beginning and say, "no thank you, sir, but I will seek help elsewhere -- you have crossed the line of Orthodoxy." ?

[Mysterium_Fidei]

Okay, I'll be the one to ask the stupid low-churcher question: Just how does one use 'holy water' in personal devotions? And for classical Anglican purposes, what constitutes 'holy water'?

(Of course, I've played enough Call of Cthulhu and seen enough vampire movies to know the non-devotional urban-legend uses of holy water, but I'm assuming that's irrelevant to this discussion; and anyway I'm here to tell you that a reeally good Power-versus-power roll on D100 is more reliable;) ).

The only Prayer-book rite I know of for blessing water is in the context of baptism. In the same context I am familiar with the idea of asperging the congregation as remembrance of their own baptism. And it's quite common to see people bless themselves or their spouse and children, as they pass the font on the way up to the sanctuary rail for communion, by dipping their fingers into the font and signing the Cross on the forehead with the water.

In personal devotional use of holy water do you asperge yourself and family? Or do you just keep a vessel out for signing yourself with the cross?


We usually sprinkle it about the house as a reminder that we are Baptized Christians, and ask God's blessing over the family and His protection from sin and the Enemy. I keep a font at my shrine and cross my self before I pray as a reminder, once again, that I have been baptized and I ask God to cleanse me of the sins I've committed.

Hope that helps?

[Mysterium_Fidei]

Well sure, but when we read that sprinkling all the furniture with water is thought be a holy and beneficial practice, we ought to pause and reflect. May the priest not have had GOOD REASONS for answering as he did? Possibly it would be appropriate to discuss his reasons further with him before deciding to dismiss his answer. Right?

I'm not saying that anyone in your parish was planning to do this or that in reaction, because the OP merely put the question out there. But you see how the responses have gone.

Any good pastor will try to restrain the impulses of sincere parishioners whose ideas about spirituality have gone too far. And in this case, the individual came to him and asked for the rector's guidance...then didn't care for it. The priest doesn't seem to have been on any campaign himself.

Would that clergy in another faith we are familiar with would be as up front when prayers are being directed by their people to stains on concrete underpasses, office windows and so on. Those priests seem usually to shrug their shoulders and take the position that "their intention is good, even if the belief is unfounded, etc.."

What do we think we have a pastor for? Why do we assume that his considerable training didn't teach him the right answer when we approach him with a question? ( You can see that I am taking this little issue as symptomatic of a bigger trend.)

Like a good parent, sometimes a dedicated pastor has to take a stand, even if going alone would be easier and make him more popular.

Of course he might still be weird in other ways. :)
I think the situation would make a bit more sense if you knew our priest. We didn't ask him, either, if we could take any home. It was all very strange, and the conversation went something like this:

My friend and I, both Acolytes, took a bottle of water to the priest to have blessed because the fonts at church were running low, and had a rosary and some other things to have blessed. He mumbled something about:

"This water is for the church, right...?"
"Yes, Father, the fonts are running low."
"OK, just making sure, because you can't take it home."

Which we thought was strange. I don't want to go running to the local Roman Catholic Church to have my bottles filled, after all! ;)

[higgs2]

In addition to AnglicanCrusader's reply, their one priest does not constitute "The Church". If a priest is denying you a sacrament for no apparent reason (meaning, you are not in a state of sin which would prevent you from receiving said sacrament), then ask the priest again; and, if he still won't give it to you without warrant, find a priest who will.
What sacrament is being denied?

[gitlance]

What sacrament is being denied?

In this case, a sacramental is being denied (holy water).

Yeah, yeah, I know I sound like a Roman. ;)

[SeenAndUnseen]

Yes, I also consider Holy Water to be a sacramental (the "al" at the end extremely important!) -- and that any priest would suggest it ought not be used as such seemed a bit offish to me.

In starting this thread, I just wondered whether this is the common view taken by Anglicans/Episcopalians, or if this was merely the priest's opinion -- because it caused the Roman in me to rear its head a little and I realized I have never had cause to consider it before this incident.

[Albion]

I think the situation would make a bit more sense if you knew our priest. We didn't ask him, either, if we could take any home. It was all very strange, and the conversation went something like this:

My friend and I, both Acolytes, took a bottle of water to the priest to have blessed because the fonts at church were running low, and had a rosary and some other things to have blessed. He mumbled something about:

"This water is for the church, right...?"
"Yes, Father, the fonts are running low."
"OK, just making sure, because you can't take it home."

Which we thought was strange. I don't want to go running to the local Roman Catholic Church to have my bottles filled, after all! ;)

Ok, you're much closer to the situation and the guy may be peculiar...but it sounds to me that he had a reason for making the point that holy water is not to used improperly. And I still think running to a Roman Catholic priest to have your bottles filled indicates some mindset that ought to be reconsidered. Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't sound right or respectful.

[Mysterium_Fidei]

Ok, you're much closer to the situation and the guy may be peculiar...but it sounds to me that he had a reason for making the point that holy water is not to used improperly. And I still think running to a Roman Catholic priest to have your bottles filled indicates some mindset that ought to be reconsidered. Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't sound right or respectful.
I'm not going to convert YET, Albion. :-)

[SeenAndUnseen]

There is a good reason for keeping the holy water in church and not using it in the RC fashion, and I'd recommend respecting his feelings in the matters, especiallly since there is nothing really critical about doing it any other way.

Albion, it is not at all my intention to flout any church authority's wishes. I have only asked whether this is common or uncommon, but from your answer I see that there are some who take this use of Holy Water in "the RC fashion" quite seriously -- so perhaps my priest is one who shares this view.

It is a view that I do not understand though. Could you please explain to me what the good reason you speak of ("...for not using it in the RC fashion") is? Thank you.

[gitlance]

Ok, you're much closer to the situation and the guy may be peculiar...but it sounds to me that he had a reason for making the point that holy water is not to used improperly. And I still think running to a Roman Catholic priest to have your bottles filled indicates some mindset that ought to be reconsidered. Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't sound right or respectful.

Well, because AC is Episcopalian, I certainly wouldn't recommend running to an RC priest first off to get the water blessed. I am quite surprised, to be honest, that an Episcopal priest wouldn't do it for him. Our priests around here will bless our rosaries for us, our prayer books, crucifixes, etc.

[Albion]

Albion, it is not at all my intention to flout any church authority's wishes. I have only asked whether this is common or uncommon, but from your answer I see that there are some who take this use of Holy Water in "the RC fashion" quite seriously -- so perhaps my priest is one who shares this view.

It is a view that I do not understand though. Could you please explain to me what the good reason you speak of ("...for not using it in the RC fashion") is? Thank you.

Rightly or wrongly, many Roman Catholics tend to view a bottle of blessed water kept at home, etc. as akin to a talisman. To a lesser extent, these otherwise good and sincere Christians ,ay also feel protected by having a plastic figurine on the car dashboard and, until recently at least, felt protected from harm if there were a St. Christopher medal on their person while travelling. We generally do not see blessed objects in that way.

[SeenAndUnseen]

Rightly or wrongly, many Roman Catholics tend to view a bottle of blessed water kept at home, etc. as akin to a talisman. To a lesser extent, these otherwise good and sincere Christians ,ay also feel protected by having a plastic figurine on the car dashboard and, until recently at least, felt protected from harm if there were a St. Christopher medal on their person while travelling. We generally do not see blessed objects in that way.

I understand what you mean now and I thank you again for exlaining. I feel compelled to toss in, however, that when I practiced Roman Catholicism and wore blessed medals (I have a Miraculous Medal I wear often to this day) I considered them the way RCs are supposed to: as ongoing prayers for intercession from whatever saint the medal depicts. I do not feel protected from harm or damnation as if the blessed things were magical items. My personal feelings about blessed items and medals hasn't really ever changed either. I suppose there might always be a few people who really believe they work like talismans, but I am not sure I have ever met any of them.

[Albion]

I understand what you mean now and I thank you again for exlaining. I feel compelled to toss in, however, that when I practiced Roman Catholicism and wore blessed medals (I have a Miraculous Medal I wear often to this day) I considered them the way RCs are supposed to: as ongoing prayers for intercession from whatever saint the medal depicts. I do not feel protected from harm or damnation as if the blessed things were magical items. My personal feelings about blessed items and medals hasn't really ever changed either. I suppose there might always be a few people who really believe they work like talismans, but I am not sure I have ever met any of them.

Well, I've met and known many. Included are some folks I love dearly, so I'm not in a position to deny that what I've observed is factual. On the other hand, we all admit, openly or tacitly, that there is a proper use of many of these items.

Most wearers of religious medals don't do so with an incorrect understanding, not any more than you do. But that doesn't mean that there is not improper use by some people. And if we turn from discussing medals to other items already mentioned, I think you'd find that the wrongful use would increase.

[ChessCastle]

I understand what you mean now and I thank you again for exlaining. I feel compelled to toss in, however, that when I practiced Roman Catholicism and wore blessed medals (I have a Miraculous Medal I wear often to this day) I considered them the way RCs are supposed to: as ongoing prayers for intercession from whatever saint the medal depicts. I do not feel protected from harm or damnation as if the blessed things were magical items. My personal feelings about blessed items and medals hasn't really ever changed either. I suppose there might always be a few people who really believe they work like talismans, but I am not sure I have ever met any of them.

I share your views on this topic. And although there may be people who view medals or blessed items in an 'improper' way, I've not come across them either, nor do I think it should discourage anyone who incorporates these items in their worship.

CC