Communion goes to the birds?

[Mysterium_Fidei]

I've recently heard of an incident where consecrated hosts were thrown and fed to birds, under the supervision of an Anglican priest in the Sydney diocese. can anyone confirm that this occured? :(

[Wiffey]

Holy flying seagulls! :doh:

[Fish and Bread]

I've recently heard of an incident where consecrated hosts were thrown and fed to birds, under the supervision of an Anglican priest in the Sydney diocese. can anyone confirm that this occured? :(

Someone on this very board in Australia mentioned witnessing a similar thing.

[TomUK]

:eek:

[Father Rick]

I know of several ECUSA parishes who follow the same practice.

If there is too much reserve sacrament (or if leavened bread is used) then the extra is put out for the birds.

[AngCath]

The parish I belong used to do that when we used levened bread. under our new (interim) rector we've switched to wafers only and no longer do that practice.

[Mysterium_Fidei]

Oh, God... er... :(

[PaladinValer]

Is Outrage!

Bury the Body reverently!

[Naomi4Christ]

Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.

[AveMaria]

I'm not aware of it happening anywhere. Every parish I've ever attended, any excess was either consumed by the clergy, reverently put down the piscina, or held as reserve sacrament.

[RobNJ]

Back in my days as a member of the Reformed church, we used actual bread...being that the elements were considered "symbolic", there were no prohibitions on what to do with the "left-overs"....An aside..the "power" of the communion was considered to reside in the act, not the elements (Hey, I must have taught catechism;) ).

Soo.... it's not a stretch to see those who don't hold to a transubstantiation to let the birds at the stuff



PS... Some of the finest bread pudding, i ever ate..............

[pmcleanj]

I wonder where this practice originated, and how widespread it is. It is referenced in this (http://www.churches-together.net/resources/ecumenicalnotes/pdffiles/06LocalEcumenismGenerally/0602GuidelinesEucharisticElements.pdf) document on ecumenical communion services; and Emily Dickinson's poem "Indian Summer" (http://womenshistory.about.com/library/etext/poem1/blp_dickinson_indian_summer.htm) may also be an allusion to the practice.

[RobNJ]

I wonder where this practice originated, and how widespread it is. It is referenced in this (http://www.churches-together.net/resources/ecumenicalnotes/pdffiles/06LocalEcumenismGenerally/0602GuidelinesEucharisticElements.pdf) document on ecumenical communion services; and Emily Dickinson's poem "Indian Summer" (http://womenshistory.about.com/library/etext/poem1/blp_dickinson_indian_summer.htm) may also be an allusion to the practice.


Could be... In the RCA, communion was only mandated to be served four times a year- any remaining bread would have been looooong inedible by then. Anything not to waste food.

[Andy Broadley]

In my 9rather limited) experience, the minister usually finished it off.

But otherwise I have to agree with Naomi about the Father feeding the birds of the air.

[ebia]

I subscribe fully to real presence and I really can't see the problem with giving it to the birds - so long as they aren't pigeons.

[PaladinValer]

"Feeding the birds" simply means that God takes care of them by giving them their own way.

It doesn't mean giving them His Body. They don't need it. They don't have original sin. To suggest such an interpretation is utterly unbiblical and unorthodox.

The Host is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. You don't just throw it out the window like some piece of trash. That is utterly disrespectful, sacreligious, blasphemous, and downright insulting. You dispose of it with due respect and reverence. You bury it, you put down the piscina, or you hold it as part of the Reserved Sacrament in case of immergencies.

If any of my priests were to simply throw the Body around, I've leave the parish and contact the bishop.

[karen freeinchristman]

"Feeding the birds" simply means that God takes care of them by giving them their own way.

It doesn't mean giving them His Body. They don't need it. They don't have original sin. To suggest such an interpretation is utterly unbiblical and unorthodox.

The Host is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. You don't just throw it out the window like some piece of trash. That is utterly disrespectful, sacreligious, blasphemous, and downright insulting. You dispose of it with due respect and reverence. You bury it, you put down the piscina, or you hold it as part of the Reserved Sacrament in case of immergencies.

If any of my priests were to simply throw the Body around, I've leave the parish and contact the bishop.

I am not agreeing with feeding the host to the birds here, but I wonder what the difference is if one fed birds with the host compared with burying it where it will be eaten by worms or put in a piscina (which is like a drain?). I am actually more convinced that the best thing to do is a)reserve it for emergencies and/or b)eat up all that remains.

[pmcleanj]

I am not agreeing with feeding the host to the birds here, but I wonder what the difference is if one fed birds with the host compared with burying it where it will be eaten by worms or put in a piscina (which is like a drain?). I am actually more convinced that the best thing to do is a)reserve it for emergencies and/or b)eat up all that remains.


1662 Book of Common Prayer: And if any of the Bread and Wine remain unconsecrate, the Curate shall have them for his own use, but if any remain of that which was consecrated, it shall not be carried out of the Church, but the Priest and such other of the Communicants as he shall then call unto him shall, immediately after the Blessing, reverently eat and drink the same.

1962 Book of Common Prayer (ACC): If any of the consecrated Bread and Wine remain, the Priest and other Communicaaants shall reverently eat and drink the same, either when all have communicated, or immediately after the Blessing.

1979 Book of Common Prayer (ECUSA): If any of the consecrated Bread and Wine remain, apart from any which may be required for the Communion of the sick, or of others who for weighty cause could not be present at the celebration, or for the administration of Communion by a deacon to a congregation when no priest is available, the celebrant or deacon, and other communicants, reverently eat and drink it, either after the Communion of the people or after the Dismissal.

What a burden of offense we could avoid laying upon our brothers and sisters, if we only followed the rubrics of our lovely Book of Common Prayer, which is the Great Possession of the church.

But if we did that, we might find some of the other rubrics constrain the things we do want to do. Like the ECUSA rubric, whose reasons for retaining the bread do NOT include Adoration. Or like the 1662 rubric that to take away all occasion of dissension, and superstition which any person hath or might have concerning the Bread and Wine, it shall suffice that the Bread be such as is usual to be eaten... Some among us are pretty committed to the idea of hosts rather than bread, despite this historic tradition of using plain bread; but anyone who thinks that the shape and form of the host doesn't engender an abnormal mystique hasn't followed the controversy engendered by a Montreal firm's marketing round white flat-breads as a snack-food.

[pmcleanj]

I subscribe fully to real presence and I really can't see the problem with giving it to the birds - so long as they aren't pigeons.
The personal habits of starlings are not really much better than those of pigeons. And Canada Geese are ... problematic ... too (trust me on this one -- our city has been known to employ "egg-shakers" to keep the population down so that children can use the playgrounds in relative safety!)

[Mysterium_Fidei]

"Feeding the birds" simply means that God takes care of them by giving them their own way.

It doesn't mean giving them His Body. They don't need it. They don't have original sin. To suggest such an interpretation is utterly unbiblical and unorthodox.

The Host is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. You don't just throw it out the window like some piece of trash. That is utterly disrespectful, sacreligious, blasphemous, and downright insulting. You dispose of it with due respect and reverence. You bury it, you put down the piscina, or you hold it as part of the Reserved Sacrament in case of immergencies.

If any of my priests were to simply throw the Body around, I've leave the parish and contact the bishop.
You would actually expect a bishop of ECUSA to do something about this?

[john23237]

You would actually expect a bishop of ECUSA to do something about this?


You #@%*% I would and please feel free to quote me on that one!

[Mysterium_Fidei]

You #@%*% I would and please feel free to quote me on that one!

Mmm K. ;)

[john23237]

"Feeding the birds" simply means that God takes care of them by giving them their own way.

It doesn't mean giving them His Body. They don't need it. They don't have original sin. To suggest such an interpretation is utterly unbiblical and unorthodox.

The Host is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. You don't just throw it out the window like some piece of trash. That is utterly disrespectful, sacreligious, blasphemous, and downright insulting. You dispose of it with due respect and reverence. You bury it, you put down the piscina, or you hold it as part of the Reserved Sacrament in case of immergencies.

If any of my priests were to simply throw the Body around, I've leave the parish and contact the bishop.

AMEN!

[Thomas2618]

I'll second that AMEN

[SeenAndUnseen]

#@%*%


:eek:
:D

[SirTimothy]

Frankly if that happened in my diocese, I would go straight to my bishop (Archbishop of the province) and you BET he would do something about this. I don't agree with my bishop on some things, but on this one I think we'd be 100% together. The president or other assisting members consume all that is not kept for the Reserve Sacrament. We even carefully wash the paten into the chalice to make sure all crumbs of the Body are consumed.

Timothy

[Mysterium_Fidei]

If it happened in my church I'd cross the Tiber and run to the SSPX, frankly.

[Naomi4Christ]

Frankly if that happened in my diocese, I would go straight to my bishop (Archbishop of the province) and you BET he would do something about this. I don't agree with my bishop on some things, but on this one I think we'd be 100% together. The president or other assisting members consume all that is not kept for the Reserve Sacrament. We even carefully wash the paten into the chalice to make sure all crumbs of the Body are consumed.

Timothy

Don't you think it would be courteous to go via the vicar and PCC?

[SirTimothy]

Don't you think it would be courteous to go via the vicar and PCC?

If it wasn't the Vicar doing it, yes, then he's the one to talk to. If he's the one doing it (which he must be) then the PCC aren't involved, as their responsibility is financial and administrative, nothing to do with this, the Vicar is responsible to his bishop for sacramental stuff, not to the PCC.

Timothy

[Naomi4Christ]

If it wasn't the Vicar doing it, yes, then he's the one to talk to. If he's the one doing it (which he must be) then the PCC aren't involved, as their responsibility is financial and administrative, nothing to do with this, the Vicar is responsible to his bishop for sacramental stuff, not to the PCC.

Timothy

I think the PCC are responsible for the decisions taken regarding adherance to official liturgy.

To write to the PCC would definitely be the first step on the protest ladder if there is anything you think is not quite so. I would imagine that the views/actions of the PCC would be the first question the bishop would have in any case.

[gtsecc]

The bishop is precisely the one responsible for this, because he is entrusted with the theological over sight of the Church. In particular, he is responsible for the Eucharist, because a Priest can only celebrate it with the permission of the Bishop.

[gtsecc]

The bishop is precisely the one responsible for this, because he is entrusted with the theological over sight of the Church. In particular, he is responsible for the Eucharist, because a Priest can only celebrate it with the permission of the Bishop.

[Naomi4Christ]

The bishop is precisely the one responsible for this, because he is entrusted with the theological over sight of the Church. In particular, he is responsible for the Eucharist, because a Priest can only celebrate it with the permission of the Bishop.


He'd also be a miracle worker to be directly responsible for what goes on in 50+ parishes.

The responsibility rests with the clergy, the wardens, and the PCC. Deny it all you like.

[Thomas2618]

I don't see it being a miracle for the Bishop to give permission to Priests to celebrate the Eucharist... Yet in giving the permission, the responsibility is still on the Bishop...he has just entrusted the Priests with the permission to celebrate.

[PaladinValer]

He'd also be a miracle worker to be directly responsible for what goes on in 50+ parishes.

The responsibility rests with the clergy, the wardens, and the PCC. Deny it all you like.

Wrong.

The bishop is the overseer of his or her diocese. Of ALL OF IT. Priests are, as Father Rick has said several times, representatives of their bishop. What they do reflects directly upon the bishop.

The responsibility of a parish, in the end, rests with the bishop. In the Anglican Church, the smallest denomination is the diocese, not the parish.

[UberLutheran]

Except that because of the location of my parish near the Barton Creek Greenbelt, we end up feeding the deer.

Blasphemy? No. Irrevence towards the Sacrament? No. My parish may be liberal, but we take the Sacrament very, very seriously.

Deer have to eat, too; and where I live there are more deer than there is available food. Deer may or may not have souls (I tend to think that all living things probably do have souls); but I do remember God saying in Genesis, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth [and with it, earth's creatures]."

[UberLutheran]

Except that because of the location of my parish near the Barton Creek Greenbelt, we end up feeding the deer.

Blasphemy? No. Irrevence towards the Sacrament? No. My parish may be liberal, but we take the Sacrament very, very seriously.

Deer have to eat, too; and where I live there are more deer than there is available food. Deer may or may not have souls (I tend to think that all living things probably do have souls); but I do remember God saying in Genesis, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth [and with it, earth's creatures]."

[Albion]

I'm quite confident that "replenish the Earth" and the Lord's Supper are not the same thing, even if deer have to eat. So do humans, and I presume that you are not scattering hosts in alleyways for vagrants to find.

But there is a point in this. What is reverent, and reverent disposal of unused bread and wine, is a matter of opinion. I know Lutheran churches in which it is believed that the elements are Christ's body and blood in the most literal sense, but yet the unused wine is poured "reverently" upon the ground. Meanwhile, most Anglicans would be repulsed by such an action, thinking it irreverent. Even those who DO NOT believe that the wafers and wine are literally flesh and blood. Hard to say who's right.

[karen freeinchristman]

I presume that you are not scattering hosts in alleyways for vagrants to find.
Something inside me says that giving out hosts to vagrants would be very Christ-like.

[Mysterium_Fidei]

Er, feeding the Body of Christ to deer seems a bit off to me, sorry.

[gtsecc]

Lutherans believe in the RP during the service, so to them, the host is no longer the Body and Blood after the service, so disposal is different.

[gtsecc]

He'd also be a miracle worker to be directly responsible for what goes on in 50+ parishes.

The responsibility rests with the clergy, the wardens, and the PCC. Deny it all you like.
Our Bishop IS a miracle worker.

You are right that teh Bishop can't practically be involved directly in all the aspects of every parish, but communion is actually the one thing he is responsible for in every single parish.

[SirTimothy]

The bishop is responsible not just for communion, but for the distribution of the sacraments in every church, just as a deacon is responsible directly to his/her priest, so the priest is responsible to his/her bishop.

Timothy

[UberLutheran]

I didn't know that!

I always thought after it had been consecrated, it remained the Body and Blood.

For that reason, if something has happened before (or occasionally during) the service* which puts me in a place where I'm really not in a good emotional state to partake in the Eucharist, I partake later (when I am in a good state).

*You know -- things like the cantor not showing up for service and leaving no message saying he won't be there; someone's fussy kid decides to projectile vomit during service, my best friend's ex-wife makes an appearance, acts out and becomes a horse's rear end -- so we have to threaten to call 911 to stop her disruptive acting out, etc.

[Albion]

Something inside me says that giving out hosts to vagrants would be very Christ-like.

Maybe, but that wasn't the hypothetical situation I described.

When deer come to the Communion rail during the service itself, you'll have a genuine comparison.

[kiwimac]

Actually,

I would argue that giving the hosts to the birds fulfils Jesus saying in Matthew.

Matthew 6: 26 See the birds of the sky, that they don't sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns. Your heavenly Father feeds them. Aren't you of much more value than they?

Kiwimac