Predestination

[MrsOsenga]

I just have a quick question - I know in general that Methodists do not agree with predestination - but can someone tell me which denominations agree/believe in predestination?

I've been reading a really good book "John Wesley's Message Today" by Lovett H. Weems, Jr. - and Wesley made so many good points against predestination. I just became curious as to which denominations do believe in this. Thanks!

[ghs1994]

I would like to jump in here as a Baptist since there are many Baptists who believe in predestination. Some have a very foggy view of what predestination actually is. Any time the word "predestination" is used, it is used in reference with Jesus Christ (that is to be molded to His image once we are born again.) Some folks try to make it out to be something more.

I do believe God sovereignly has foreordained all things that come to pass thru the hearts of men. It can be disputed, but a very weak argument against God's sovereignty really isn't worth the time. He doesn't force us, but He is well aware of the things that will happen.

A good article by RC Sproul really gave me insight to what I already believed, it just helped me gather my thoughts. It's not a super long article if you want to check it out.

www.doctrine.net/freedomofthewill.htm (http://www.doctrine.net/freedomofthewill.htm)

[Qyöt27]

Presbyterians generally do, any 5-point Calvinist does (and it could be argued that all Calvinists do, but I feel uncomfortable making that assertion), some scattered groups throughout other denominations, and there's probably others but the numbers are very patchy from that point on.

[ClementofRome]

Read the following letter from another good Methodist to Mr. Wesley:

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/wesley.htm

I am a Whitefield Methodist (probably the only one on the planet, through I understand that Onisemus85 is toying with the doctrines of grace :) ). I believe that simply turn one's back from the question of predestination and conclude that it not be the case is to turn one's back on Scripture. See Romans 8 and Eph. 1 for starters alone.

In fact, Wesley was not nearly the Arminian that he has been made out to be and certainly the Arminianism of the UMC is much beyond what Wesley would have ever intended.

[MrsOsenga]

Thank you for all your responses - off to do some reading!

[ContraMundum]

Read the following letter from another good Methodist to Mr. Wesley:

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/wesley.htm

I am a Whitefield Methodist (probably the only one on the planet, through I understand that Onisemus85 is toying with the doctrines of grace :) ). I believe that simply turn one's back from the question of predestination and conclude that it not be the case is to turn one's back on Scripture. See Romans 8 and Eph. 1 for starters alone.

In fact, Wesley was not nearly the Arminian that he has been made out to be and certainly the Arminianism of the UMC is much beyond what Wesley would have ever intended.
I agree- there is a difference between Arminianism and Wesleyan-Arminianism. .</p>

I hold to a modified version of predestination/election somewhere between Wesley and Luther. I think it is an important doctrine to consider.
This guy here has some good thoughts on it: http://eternalsecurity.us/biblical_theology.htm
.

His article on decision theology is especially worth thinking about.

[servant4ever]

I agree- there is a difference between Arminianism and Wesleyan-Arminianism. .</p>

I hold to a modified version of predestination/election somewhere between Wesley and Luther. I think it is an important doctrine to consider.
This guy here has some good thoughts on it: http://eternalsecurity.us/biblical_theology.htm
.

His article on decision theology is especially worth thinking about.
What's the difference between Arminianism and Wesleyan-Arminianism?

[ContraMundum]

What's the difference between Arminianism and Wesleyan-Arminianism?

Mainly the difference is centred around how much depravity man has- Wesley held that basically man is so corrupt that he cannot of his own will or desire seek after God. This is alsmost the same as Calvinism/Augustinianism but Wesley taught that instead of God choosing some to have faith and giving those chosen few the irresistable grace to believe, that God instead gave the offer of free grace to all mankind- a prevenient grace that enables all to hear the Gospel and choose to follow. Arminianism tends to emphasize man's free will, although the original Arminian articles don't quite say that either.

I can't find a link that deals with this. I'm sure I've botched it up, so if anyone else has a better explanation, it would be nice.

[ange_kaye13]

Well, I'm a Nazarene, and I firmly believe in predestination, that God knows who will be saved. I don't know if that answers your question or not. God is sovereign, all-knowing, and He isn't bound by the things that we as humans are (i.e. time). He does give us free-will, but I firmly believe that He knows how things will 'pan' out.