Jesus Geneology

[FriarTuck]

I'm posting this in OBOB and TAW because I don't want this to turn into Mary bashing.

In the Gospels Jesus traces his geneology to David through Joseph. If Joseph wasn't his father he couldn't do that. Also if Mary was his only physical parent that is the only genetic donor then Jesus would have been a female since you can't get XY from XX. Is it possible that God used genetic material from Joseph to complete Jesus's DNA. Does Jesus even have a Genetic code. Did God simply choose each chromosome himself? Since I don't think God the Father has a genetic code I was wondering what you think. Am I being silly or reading to much into this?

This is an honest question. I mean it in all respect.

Peace and Love of Christ Jesus.

[jckstraw72]

I wondered that myself the other day. I asked some friends what Jesus' DNA looked like.

[choirfiend]

No, I dont think God took DNA from Joseph to complete Jesus'. I think His conception was through the Holy Spirit, just as it says, and since the Holy Spirit makes each and every one of us, I think He could manage to make Christ.

Joseph named Christ. In Jewish tradition, you were biologically only the son of your mother, since it was traceable whose womb you came from, but, realistically speaking at the time, you couldnt trace who the father was for sure. However, fathers laid claim to their sons/daughters by naming them. By being the one to give them a name, you claimed them as your own, no matter who the physical father might have been (since it was chancey in those days). As such, Joseph was basically Christ's stepfather, His father as far as earthy, human, legal things were concerned.

Hope that helps!

[Oblio]

Good question, and I have though about this before. My guess is the best you will get from us is, you guessed it ... It is Mystery :) :D


I'm posting this in OBOB and TAW because I don't want this to turn into Mary bashing.


I'm sure I will speak for most all of us when I say - Thank You :thumbsup:

[Dust and Ashes]

No, I dont think God took DNA from Joseph to complete Jesus'. I think His conception was through the Holy Spirit, just as it says, and since the Holy Spirit makes each and every one of us, I think He could manage to make Christ.

Joseph named Christ. In Jewish tradition, you were biologically only the son of your mother, since it was traceable whose womb you came from, but, realistically speaking at the time, you couldnt trace who the father was for sure. However, fathers laid claim to their sons/daughters by naming them. By being the one to give them a name, you claimed them as your own, no matter who the physical father might have been (since it was chancey in those days). As such, Joseph was basically Christ's stepfather, His father as far as earthy, human, legal things were concerned.

Hope that helps!

:thumbsup:

That's my understanding as well.

[EvangeliGirl]

No, I dont think God took DNA from Joseph to complete Jesus'. I think His conception was through the Holy Spirit, just as it says, and since the Holy Spirit makes each and every one of us, I think He could manage to make Christ.

Joseph named Christ. In Jewish tradition, you were biologically only the son of your mother, since it was traceable whose womb you came from, but, realistically speaking at the time, you couldnt trace who the father was for sure. However, fathers laid claim to their sons/daughters by naming them. By being the one to give them a name, you claimed them as your own, no matter who the physical father might have been (since it was chancey in those days). As such, Joseph was basically Christ's stepfather, His father as far as earthy, human, legal things were concerned.

Hope that helps!

Youre so smart! :)

[choirfiend]

Nah, I just repeat stuff smart people tell me.

[EvangeliGirl]

Nah, I just repeat stuff smart people tell me.

Well, good memory, at least! :thumbsup:

[icxn]

Nah, I just repeat stuff smart people tell me.
That's even smarter. ;)

[Annoula]

hm... i really don't know what jewish tradition used to be, but i've heard that geneology was from the father's side. but i can't back that up.

the "chancy" of the father could be tricky. women going with other men except their husband could lead them to stoning.
i think that's why Joseph didn't like Mary's pregnancy in the beginning.


isn't the geneology of Christ in the 2 gospels a bit messy? it's in Mark and Loucas if i am correct, or Mathew and Loucas....

i think they are the same from Adam till Solomon, after that they get different.

i asked a priest why is that, and he gave me the typical answer : pray that God will give you the answer.

does anyone know more on this?????

[theoforos]

isn't the geneology of Christ in the 2 gospels a bit messy? it's in Mark and Loucas if i am correct, or Mathew and Loucas....

Someone said that one of the gospels gives the genealogy on Joseph's side and the other one on Mary's side, but I never checked if that fits the picture. I remember at least one of them ends in Joseph because I thought it was odd, but does the other one end in Mary?

[icxn]

...does anyone know more on this?????
Read St. John Chrysostom homiles:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-10/npnf1-10-08.htm
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-10/npnf1-10-09.htm
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-10/npnf1-10-10.htm

[icxn]

Someone said that one of the gospels gives the genealogy on Joseph's side and the other one on Mary's side, but I never checked if that fits the picture. I remember at least one of them ends in Joseph because I thought it was odd, but does the other one end in Mary?
Here's what St. John Damascene says:

Concerning our Lord's genealogy and concerning the holy Mother of God.
(http://orthodox.net/fathers/exactiv.html#BOOK_IV_CHAPTER_XIV)
Concerning the holy and much-lauded ever-virgin one, Mary, the Mother of God, we have said something in the preceding chapters, bringing forward what was most opportune, viz., that strictly and truly she is and is called the Mother of God. Now let us fill up the blanks. For she being pre-ordained by the eternal prescient counsel of God and imaged forth and proclaimed in diverse images and discourses of the prophets through the Holy Spirit, sprang at the pre-determined time from the root of David, according to the promises that were made to him. For the lord hath sworn, He saith in truth to David, He will not turn from it: of the fruit of Thy body will I set upon Thy throne(5). And again, Once have I sworn by My holiness, that I will not lie unto David. His seed shall endure for ever, and His throne as the sun before Me. It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven(6). And Isaiah says: And there shall come out a rod out of the stem of Jesse and a branch shall grow out of his roots(7).

But that Joseph is descended from the tribe of David is expressly demonstrated by Matthew and Luke, the most holy evangelists. But Matthew derives Joseph from David through Solomon, while Luke does so through Nathan; while over the holy Virgin's origin both pass in silence.

One ought to remember that it was not the custom of the Hebrews nor of the divine Scripture to give genealogies of women; and the law was to prevent one tribe seeking wives from another(8). And so since Joseph was descended from the tribe of David and was a just man (for this the divine Gospel testifies), he would not have espoused the holy Virgin contrary to the law; he would not have taken her unless she had been of the same tribe(8a). It was sufficient, therefore, to demonstrate the descent of Joseph.

One ought also to observe(9) this, that the law was that when a man died without seed, this maws brother should take to wife the wife of the dead man and raise up seed to his brother(1). The offspring, therefore, belonged by nature to the second, that is, to him that begat it, but by law to the dead.

Born then of the line of Nathan, the son of David, Levi begat Melchi(2) and Panther: Panther begat Barpanther, so called. This Barpanther begat Joachim: Joachim begat the holy Mother of God(3)(4). And of the line of Solomon, the son of David, Mathan had a wife(5) of whom he begat Jacob. Now on the death of Mathan, Melchi, of the tribe of Nathan, the son of Levi and brother of Panther, married the wife of Mathan, Jacob's mother, of whom he begat Heli. Therefore Jacob and Hell became brothers on their mother's side, Jacob being of the tribe of Solomon and Heli of the tribe of Nathan. Then Heli of the tribe of Nathan died childless, and Jacob his brother, of the tribe of Solomon, took his wife and raised up seed to his brother and begat Joseph. Joseph, therefore, is by nature the son of Jacob, of the line of Solomon, but by law he is the son of Hell of the line of Nathan.

[Kolya]

I wondered that myself the other day. I asked some friends what Jesus' DNA looked like.

Possibly the same as Adam's.:) Realitically, it's a Mystery, but we could speculate. God created man in the first place, so why would the Holy Spirit change the recipe?

[copticorthodoxy]

I'm posting this in OBOB and TAW because I don't want this to turn into Mary bashing.

In the Gospels Jesus traces his geneology to David through Joseph. If Joseph wasn't his father he couldn't do that. Also if Mary was his only physical parent that is the only genetic donor then Jesus would have been a female since you can't get XY from XX. Is it possible that God used genetic material from Joseph to complete Jesus's DNA. Does Jesus even have a Genetic code. Did God simply choose each chromosome himself? Since I don't think God the Father has a genetic code I was wondering what you think. Am I being silly or reading to much into this?

This is an honest question. I mean it in all respect.

Peace and Love of Christ Jesus.

why you want to know Jesus DNA !!!!

the fact that jesus christ is full man and full God is enough for me

[Annoula]

Joseph, therefore, is by nature the son of Jacob, of the line of Solomon, but by law he is the son of Hell of the line of Nathan.


that is interesting. i didn't see the links yet, but i will.

so if i understand this clearly, one gospel gives the geneology of Joseph through David and the other through David's son Nathan. correct?


ok another question please. why is Nathan the son of Hell???
asking out of curiosity, and because i want to clarify as much as possible in my limited and silly head.

thanx

[prodromos]

ok another question please. why is Nathan the son of Hell???
asking out of curiosity, and because i want to clarify as much as possible in my limited and silly head.Tsk, tsk Annoula, shouldn't you be doing as the Bereans and checking what was said against scripture, and in doing so discovering that it was the result of a typo and should have read "Heli" :P ;)

John

[prodromos]

Also, as Orthodox christians we know that neither genealogy is of Mary since neither mentions her father Ioachim.

[Emmanuel-A]

isn't the geneology of Christ in the 2 gospels a bit messy? it's in Mark and Loucas if i am correct, or Mathew and Loucas....


Eusebius of Cesarea explained why the 2 genealogies are different.

That's in his Church History, Book 1 Chapter 7.

Does anyone knows if this book is somewhere on-line in english so I can quote him ? I only have it in french.

[Annoula]

Tsk, tsk Annoula, shouldn't you be doing as the Bereans and checking what was said against scripture, and in doing so discovering that it was the result of a typo and should have read "Heli" :P ;)

John


Johnnie... who are the Bereans??? you mean people from Βέροια?

i don't have the NT with me... and i can't check any english version cause it will still be a problem for me.

i am a problematic...


Johnnie be good tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(i like the song)

[theoforos]

Eusebius of Cesarea explained why the 2 genealogies are different.

That's in his Church History, Book 1 Chapter 7.

Does anyone knows if this book is somewhere on-line in english so I can quote him ? I only have it in french.


I've got it in English at home. So if noone finds it online I can try to remember to check it when I get home. But maybe some of the Americans know about an online source when they wake up in larger quantities. :)

[choirfiend]

bible lookup (http://www.biblegateway.com/)