Methodists and Dispensationalism

[Cary.Melvin]

In light of Pat Robertson's comments about Ariel Sharon being struck down by God for dividing the holy land up for peace with the Palistinians and President George W. Bush being a Methodist, Do Methodists adhear to dispensationalist notions reguarding the future of the modern state of Isreal, the rebuilding of the temple, rapture, etc. as being part of God's plans?

Thanks

Cary

[alaurie]

Methodist are historically amillennialial. But as it is with most Methodist beliefs, you'll find a wide range of views on the subject of eschatology. I've been reading a little here and there about the subject for years and tend to lean towards an Ante-Nicene type historic premillenialism.

I grew up Southern Baptist which is predominately dispensationalist. The teaching never made sense to me as a child. I'd hear dramatic Sunday School lessons about Roman persecution of the early church, then hear a few weeks later about the horrors of the tribulation that we were going to magically get to escape via the pre-mil Rapture. Never did add up to me.

Bush grew up Episcopalian; they teach the amillennial view as do many Methodist, so I'd guess that's his stance.

You're not going to find many UMC Pat Robertson fans! :)

[Cary.Melvin]

Methodist are historically amillennialial. But as it is with most Methodist beliefs, you'll find a wide range of views on the subject of eschatology. I've been reading a little here and there about the subject for years and tend to lean towards an Ante-Nicene type historic premillenialism.

I grew up Southern Baptist which is predominately dispensationalist. The teaching never made sense to me as a child. I'd hear dramatic Sunday School lessons about Roman persecution of the early church, then hear a few weeks later about the horrors of the tribulation that we were going to magically get to escape via the pre-mil Rapture. Never did add up to me.

Bush grew up Episcopalian; they teach the amillennial view as do many Methodist, so I'd guess that's his stance.

You're not going to find many UMC Pat Robertson fans! :)

So in general, Methodist hold to Covenant Theology, not Dispensationalism?

[alaurie]

So in general, Methodist hold to Covenant Theology, not Dispensationalism?


I'm probably not the best person to answer the question the way you phrased it since my transition years from Baptist to Methodist were spent in a strict Calvinist denomination. The term Convenant Theology means a good deal more than just an eschatological view to someone who has spent time in a Calvinist church.

Again, it is safe to say most Methodist are amillennial.

[Jadis40]

Actually, I'd probably be safe in saying that Methodists may be all over the board as far as their views go. Covenant Theology and Dispensationalism really don't come up often, if at all. In recent memory, I can't recall a single sermon on that topic at the church I attend, but then again, I've heard a lot of sermons, but I've forgotten a lot of what was said.

As for myself, I'd probably be on the side amillennialism, as it's not for man to know the when's and how's of Christ's return, except that He will return in time. As the mystery of faith states:

"Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again."

I think pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation etc are all just human speculation. We won't know until God decides it's time to be revealed.

As for myself, I would classify myself as a partial preterist, who believes that what was prophesized in Daniel and Revelation happened both with the fall and destruction of the temple in 70 AD, and then later the fall of the Roman Empire.

[herev]

Methodist are historically amillennialial. But as it is with most Methodist beliefs, you'll find a wide range of views on the subject of eschatology. I've been reading a little here and there about the subject for years and tend to lean towards an Ante-Nicene type historic premillenialism.

I grew up Southern Baptist which is predominately dispensationalist. The teaching never made sense to me as a child. I'd hear dramatic Sunday School lessons about Roman persecution of the early church, then hear a few weeks later about the horrors of the tribulation that we were going to magically get to escape via the pre-mil Rapture. Never did add up to me.

Bush grew up Episcopalian; they teach the amillennial view as do many Methodist, so I'd guess that's his stance.

You're not going to find many UMC Pat Robertson fans! :)
well said and AMEN

[ContraMundum]

I know I'm not "Methodist" but I was trained by them initially so I'll chip in if you all don't mind...

Wesley and many of his colleagues held a view closer to Post-Millenialism than amillenialism, but there is not much difference as the modifiers within each system are so slender.

The terms "covenant theology" and "dispensationalism" are quite foreign to Methodist theology, although in this current age of information it's obvious that the boundaries are more permeable than before so no doubt those schools have influenced all others to some degree.

Anyway, FWIW, Pat Robertson embarrasses me. Sorry if that offends any of you, but I'm saddened when my brethren say things that they can't prove as if they could.

[Diane_Windsor]

I grew up Southern Baptist which is predominately dispensationalist.

I tend to disagree with this statement. Here is the relevant passage from The Baptist Faith and Message: Last Things (http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp#x)

I grew up Southern Baptist as well, my grandfather was a deacon, and I graduated from Baylor University. In my experience Southern Baptists do not embrace dispensationalism, nor do they overly concern themselves with the future. I was not taught about the "Rapture" in Sunday School, or in GAs, and I don't recall my pastors teaching me about it. I was taught that Christ was coming back of course, but was not told any specifics. Southern Baptists are primarily concerned with evangelization and carrying out the Great Commission.

As for your questions Cary, I cannot speak for President Bush, who has Evangelical leanings. I can only speak for myself. I do not adhere to dispensationalist theology. As for what the United Metodist Church teaches about the subject then I refer you to their website (http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=519).

DIANE
:wave:

[Qyöt27]

While I'd definitely be the first to say that it's a nice thought that there is a specific plan for the Jews, seeing as how Judaism is where Christianity sprang from, I very much disagree on practically everything else that comes as a package deal with Dispensationalism, including but certainly not limited to Zionism, futurist premillennialism, and more or less rampant literalism as well.

That kind of stuff is why I went through a particularly dark period of faith a couple of years ago, when I started to distance myself from that line of thinking, 'cause that's how I had been raised. I've mostly cut off that dead appendage, but it still lingers around in some of my thought processes.

[alaurie]

You got me curious, Diane, that maybe Mississippi Southern Baptists are aberrant (our neck of the woods has been known to get off track before ;) ). I posted a poll in the Baptist forum (http://www.christianforums.com/t2505878-southern-baptist-end-times-poll.html)to see if my experience is common to other current or former Southern Baptists.

I tend to disagree with this statement. Here is the relevant passage from The Baptist Faith and Message: Last Things (http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp#x)

I grew up Southern Baptist as well, my grandfather was a deacon, and I graduated from Baylor University. In my experience Southern Baptists do not embrace dispensationalism, nor do they overly concern themselves with the future. I was not taught about the "Rapture" in Sunday School, or in GAs, and I don't recall my pastors teaching me about it. I was taught that Christ was coming back of course, but was not told any specifics. Southern Baptists are primarily concerned with evangelization and carrying out the Great Commission.