[OPEN]are you modestly dressed?

[Elisheva413]

Hi everyone,
I was wondering what peoples thoughts on modest dress are? Should women only wear long skirts or dresses...cover their arms and no low cut blouses or collar bones showing? And if so for women, what is considered modest dress for men? Looking forward to hearing your responses!
Elisheva413

[jgonz]

This is one of those areas where everyone is going to have a different answer, I think. Each of us has a different walk with the L-rd, so what He asks each of us to do is a little different...

I personally do not feel called to wear a head covering, long skirts/dresses, etc. My DH and I have prayed about this a lot and neither of us feels that's what I'm to do, at least at this time.

I have 3 daughters and we've always felt that modest dressing includes no showing the midriff, cleavage, and the attitude that goes with that. ;) I also have 5 boys, and they wear jeans and t-shirts all the time. They are casual looking, but aren't sloppy dressers. The general consensus in our house is how nasty most of the girls look at the mall :doh: ... and how sad that is in so many ways.

[Yovel]

Some women have no idea how they effect a man by the way they dress. Men are turned on visually. Thats the way G-d wired us. Before I married my wife I told her this and she was quite shocked because she had never been taught how men react to the way women dress. When girls don't dress modestly they are playing with fire. Parents need to teach there daughters and sons to dress in a modest manner.

[HaNotsri]

Yovel,

Don't forget a little personal responsibility on the man's part too!

[Mirelys]

Some women have no idea how they effect a man by the way they dress. Men are turned on visually. Thats the way G-d wired us. Before I married my wife I told her this and she was quite shocked because she had never been taught how men react to the way women dress. When girls don't dress modestly they are playing with fire. Parents need to teach there daughters and sons to dress in a modest manner.

This is just from my personal experience:
I have dressed in many different ways in the past couple of years, and there is one way I am very careful not to dress anymore: in a hooded sweatshirt with baggy jeans or an ankle-length skirt.
I have never had problems with creeps when I was wearing jeans and a tank top (and I don't think I look scary in those, either :) ). But put on a hooded sweatshirt, and even though my figure is completely hidden, I WILL be approached by at least one creepy man, whether I'm at the grocery store, the bus stop, or the library. If I don't put on makeup, it's worse. My theory is that while the average man on the street may prefer to look at a tank top, the dangerous creepy ones are not looking for those who are showing the most skin. They are looking for girls and women who appear easily intimidated and non-assertive, and bonus points if you look twelve :sigh:
So IMO, safety is not as much about modesty as about the image a woman projects.

But back to personal modesty: for me, no cleavage, no tight clingy clothes, and I much prefer skirts over pants. Also I don't wear shorts and my skirts are at least calf-length.
For men, I think loose jeans and a shirt are necessary for modesty. I think it's funny guys make such a fuss about girls' modesty, and then run around barechested and in tight jeans. I mean seriously...

[visionary]

But put on a hooded sweatshirt, and even though my figure is completely hidden, I WILL be approached by at least one creepy man, whether I'm at the grocery store, the bus stop, or the library. If I don't put on makeup, it's worse.So true... men blame women wearing the skimpy outfits for their behavior, but the outfits on the women that are raped and murdered do not attest to this theory.

[Torah]

Hi everyone,
I was wondering what peoples thoughts on modest dress are? Should women only wear long skirts or dresses...cover their arms and no low cut blouses or collar bones showing? And if so for women, what is considered modest dress for men? Looking forward to hearing your responses!
Elisheva413



Shalom Elisheva, I would like to throw my opinion out on this subject that I feel very strong about. I am 52 and have grown up in the times when Modesty was replaced with burning of the bra, mine skirts, and free love. And in the past 40 years what was immodest has now become the normal dress with tight clingy clothes, showing of cleavage, short shorts and skirts above the knee and higher. What the bad girls use to wear has become the normal dress of today. Most people are not aware of this change of “dress code” because they were born in a time when immodest dress is the normal. Look at some of the old black & white TV shows [that are made fun of today] like “leave it to beaver”, “Father knows best”, & “Andy of Mayberry”.

What does the word of G-d say about modest dress?

1 tim 2: 9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes.

The Dictionary says:

Modest. : Observing the proprieties of dress and behavior.

And

Decent a: conforming to standards of propriety, good taste, or morality b: modestly clothed: free from immodesty or obscenity: marked by moral integrity,



We are to be a Holy people. [Holy – Kodosh: Separate a : to set or keep apart b : to make a distinction between.] We should not look or dress like the world but should keep ourselves separate.



But there is a stronger word for a Believer who dresses immodest.

Defraud: to deprive of something by deception or fraud.

Woman who wear tight clingy clothes, showing of cleavage, short shorts and skirts above the knee and higher are sending out a silent message to men that says. Look at my body, aren’t I sexy, don’t I turn you on. Like it or not this is the message that men receive and where there eyes will go to. And if you don’t believe it, look at a man’s eyes when a woman sits down with cleavage showing and you can see down the blouse. Or when a woman walks in a room with tight or clingy blouse showing all the curves of her chest or when a woman sits down with a short dress. This is why scripture says.

Numbers 15: 39 “You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the LORD, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by going after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes”.

And

1 John 2: 16 “For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world”.







SO, with the eyes a man lust after a woman and a woman who shows off her body is saying “go ahead and lust after me, but you can’t have me”.

Fraud: a person who is not what he or she pretends to be: one who defrauds one that is not what it seems or is represented to be.

Scriptures warns not to defraud.


Leviticus 19: 13" 'Do not defraud your neighbor or rob him. “‘Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight.”




Mark 10: 19 “You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.' "



And men can defraud a woman when he tell a girl that he lovers her and that they will get married one day and then they break up.

He is in fact playing with her heart and then breaks it. This is fraud weather international or unintentional it is still fraud.


This is what is going on in churches & Synagogue’s all over the world today. Lets become a Holy people and dress modest.








Yovel

Some women have no idea how they effect a man by the way they dress. Men are turned on visually. Thats the way G-d wired us. Before I married my wife I told her this and she was quite shocked because she had never been taught how men react to the way women dress. When girls don't dress modestly they are playing with fire. Parents need to teach there daughters and sons to dress in a modest manner.:thumbsup: right on.

[Yovel]

Some women have no idea how they effect a man by the way they dress. Men are turned on visually. Thats the way G-d wired us. Before I married my wife I told her this and she was quite shocked because she had never been taught how men react to the way women dress. When girls don't dress modestly they are playing with fire. Parents need to teach there daughters and sons to dress in a modest manner.HaNotsri, I thought parents included the man. ;)

[Elisheva413]

The Dictionary says:

Modest. : Observing the proprieties of dress and behavior.

And

Decent a: conforming to standards of propriety, good taste, or morality b: modestly clothed: free from immodesty or obscenity: marked by moral integrity,



We are to be a Holy people. [Holy – Kodosh: Separate a : to set or keep apart b : to make a distinction between.] We should not look or dress like the world but should keep ourselves separate.








Shalom Torah,
I appreciate your comments, very insightful. I especially liked this part from the dictionary talking about the behavior, I do believe our clothing can help dictate our behavior. So modesty is much more than dress, it is also an attitude. I have been curious about what others find appropriate and why and it is very insightful and enlightening to hear other peoples opinions.
Thank you all for sharing!
Shalom,
Elisheva413:thumbsup:

[Tishri1]

growing up mom and dad had one law...every body part that starts with the letter "B" must be covered ...pretty simple^_^This is one of those areas where everyone is going to have a different answer, I think. Each of us has a different walk with the L-rd, so what He asks each of us to do is a little different...

I personally do not feel called to wear a head covering, long skirts/dresses, etc. My DH and I have prayed about this a lot and neither of us feels that's what I'm to do, at least at this time.

I have 3 daughters and we've always felt that modest dressing includes no showing the midriff, cleavage, and the attitude that goes with that. ;) I also have 5 boys, and they wear jeans and t-shirts all the time. They are casual looking, but aren't sloppy dressers. The general consensus in our house is how nasty most of the girls look at the mall :doh: ... and how sad that is in so many ways.

[Elisheva413]

^_^ LOL! I like that...although I have to admit, I sat there thinking about it for a minute!:blush:
Very cute!
Elisheva413

[Mary_Magdalene]

being brought out of the '80's hard rock' lifestyle, i can attest to this.

when i wore the shortest mini skirts, push up bras, spandex pants, etc. I can tell you...i was looking for approval (and to feel wanted) from men. plain and simple.

i can see how people who dont know Christ would dress this way but for His born again children, there is no excuse. we are to look for approval from Him only-not men. what i know now, is that i was looking for a love that can only be found in Him. :bow:

the way i feel is that skirts should be way below the knee, no tight fitting clothes, no plunging necklines.

I have found also that there are clothes out there that may cover everything but i still have issue with - my 6 yr old found a blouse on a sale rack recently and wanted me to buy it for her. although the colors were what she was attracted to, the top part of the blouse had a lacy effect to it that reminded me of a woman's negligee. I told her no and explained why.

[jgonz]

growing up mom and dad had one law...every body part that starts with the letter "B" must be covered ...pretty simple
I had to think about it for a minute too! ^_^

I grew up in the '60's & '70's, so styles were a little different. I remember my Dad having a complete cow when my mom made me my Christmas dress one year when I was in high school~ the shortest mini-skirt I'd ever had, in dark blue crushed velvet. I froze my toosh off and never asked for a skirt that short again (I grew up in Ohio). I was mostly into the hippie clothes though~ long free flowing skirts, gauzy shirts, etc. Either that or jeans and tshirts with hiking boots. In my experience it was never the clothes that I wore that attracted guys to me, it was my attitude and who I hung out with. I got saved in January of 1979 and didn't really change my clothing style much (if at all). My attitude changed radically though!

But it wasn't until I was buying clothes for my oldest daughter in the mid '80's when Madonna was a hit that I realized what a challenge it was going to be to keep my daughters decent looking. :doh:

[Ivy]

I understand in Orthodox tradition, the men are supposed to avert their eyes when a woman walks by on the street.

You know, I feel we women really are naive when it comes to how dress affects men. To me for many years, it was just fashion, art, color coordination....when I'd see a nice outfit in a magazine, it wouldn't affect me as being titillating at all, it would never have occurred to me.....but......I ain't a man. God designed 'em that certain things may be just more on the surface of their consciousness. And if I was a man, I'd find it really counterrproductive, if when I went to shul or church, and I was trying to focus to love God with all my heart/soul/mind/strength.....and I look over and I see a female that looks hubba hubba....just my thought

[Elisheva413]

I understand in Orthodox tradition, the men are supposed to avert their eyes when a woman walks by on the street.

You know, I feel we women really are naive when it comes to how dress affects men. To me for many years, it was just fashion, art, color coordination....when I'd see a nice outfit in a magazine, it wouldn't affect me as being titillating at all, it would never have occurred to me.....but......I ain't a man. God designed 'em that certain things may be just more on the surface of their consciousness. And if I was a man, I'd find it really counterrproductive, if when I went to shul or church, and I was trying to focus to love God with all my heart/soul/mind/strength.....and I look over and I see a female that looks hubba hubba....just my thought

I agree with you...I think it is a sad state where so many people feel 'free' to dress as they please at church and nobody says anything. We have become so pc that we cannot even help guide one another in the body w/o offending. I once read a story of a woman that was a secular Jew, she had had a change in her heart and embraced her religion, over time she began dressing modestly and taking on a more modest attitude in her behavior as well. One day while at the mall she came off of an elevator and in front of her was a poster with a half naked man, she looked up not expecting to see it and blushed to her own surprise. She had changed so much, not just on the outside but the inside as well, she had been renewed both in and out. I just thought it was quite an experience. Especially considering how far our society has come, children dressing like women and women dressing like teenagers. I feel being a good example is the best testimony, especially when it comes from a heart truly working to please God.
Shalom~

[simchat_torah]

HaNotsri, I thought parents included the man. ;)I think he meant a man's responsibility in keeping control of himself (not in the way he dresses). I don't think men are total animals, we certainly have the ability to exude some sort of self control.

[Tishri1]

My DH had great advice when he was a young man...relate to every woman as your sister or your daughter in the lord.....sure takes the "zing" you may get from any flesh pot walking down the street...:wave:

[AnnieBanannie]

I have a question for all y'll ladies now that we have talked about how dressing affects man.. maybe some of you could answer them and give me your honest opinions of what you think of the matter...

What do you guys think is appropiate and innapropiate...

are jeans appropiate?
long tops?

what constitues as "not modest"

hope I get some answers ;)

shalom shalom to all!

[plum]

there is no one answer for what to wear, folks.. really.

[jgonz]

What do you guys think is appropiate and innapropiate...

are jeans appropiate?
long tops?

what constitues as "not modest"

Well, like I said a year ago~ it's going to depend on How you Act moreso than what you are actually wearing. (Unless you're dressing like Britney Spears/Christina Aguilara/etc. and look like a tramp all the time. ;))

I'm fine with jeans~ unless they're too tight, too low on the bum, or have suggestive words/things embroidered on them.

Long tops are fine, unless the woman is braless or something. The midriff look, halter tops, tops that show a lot of skin aren't really appropriate, however I've run across quite a few women who wore things like this, but since their attitude wasn't Trying to attract attention, they generally didn't...

Generally speaking though, I would NOT want to see a woman wearing a miniskirt to congregation, or a halter top or a top that showed cleavage, or was suggestive.

I'm sure that wasn't helpful at all... lol

[Dvorah27]

1 tim 2: 9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes.




I just want to pop in here & say that that scripture does not actually say braided (unless it's a bad translation you have) , but rather broidered. It means when a woman goes to great lengths, using alot of resources & time, to weave things such as jewels, pearls, trinkets, etc... into her hair & make great designs with her hair. It doesn't mean a simple braid.

[Torah]

Originally Posted by Torah http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=21235115#post21235115)

1 tim 2: 9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes.




I just want to pop in here & say that that scripture does not actually say braided (unless it's a bad translation you have) , but rather broidered. It means when a woman goes to great lengths, using alot of resources & time, to weave things such as jewels, pearls, trinkets, etc... into her hair & make great designs with her hair. It doesn't mean a simple braid.

And what does your “[good Translation]” say on “Modestly”. As modest was the word I was emphasizing in my post. Not “braided hair”.


What does the word of G-d say about modest dress?

1 tim 2: 9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes.

The Dictionary says:

Modest. : Observing the proprieties of dress and behavior.

And

Decent a: conforming to standards of propriety, good taste, or morality b: modestly clothed: free from immodesty or obscenity: marked by moral integrity,



We are to be a Holy people. [Holy – Kodosh: Separate a : to set or keep apart b : to make a distinction between.] We should not look or dress like the world but should keep ourselves separate.

[Dvorah27]

And what does your “[good Translation]” say on “Modestly”. As modest was the word I was emphasizing in my post. Not “braided hair”.


I wasn't saying you specifically, I was saying the "general" you. I'm all for modesty. I've just seen a woman once lay into another sister telling her she was sinning because her hair was braided, saying she was immodestly showing off her hair simply by braiding it. Ever since then, seeing that woman mistreated so because a person did not understand what the scripture was actually talking about, I always point it out when given the opportunity. You need to try not to be so confrontational, friend.

[stone]

I wasn't saying you specifically, I was saying the "general" you. I'm all for modesty. I've just seen a woman once lay into another sister telling her she was sinning because her hair was braided, saying she was immodestly showing off her hair simply by braiding it. Ever since then, seeing that woman mistreated so because a person did not understand what the scripture was actually talking about, I always point it out when given the opportunity. You need to try not to be so confrontational, friend.

that's weird, i've never heard of this kind of behavior over hair before?

[AnnieBanannie]

I would agree with you jgonz

[jgonz]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvorah27 http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=33679731#post33679731)
I wasn't saying you specifically, I was saying the "general" you. I'm all for modesty. I've just seen a woman once lay into another sister telling her she was sinning because her hair was braided, saying she was immodestly showing off her hair simply by braiding it. Ever since then, seeing that woman mistreated so because a person did not understand what the scripture was actually talking about, I always point it out when given the opportunity. You need to try not to be so confrontational, friend.

that's weird, i've never heard of this kind of behavior over hair before?

I've heard of it, and seen it myself. :doh: There are whole churches who teach that a woman should Never braid her hair... so the women leave their hair long and unbound in any way. (Except that many Do cover somewhat with a kercheif, so their hair is out of their faces.)

[visionary]

Before I leave the house, I ask my husband what he thinks... His reaction gives me a lot of clues as to how attractive it is.. and what kind.

[ContraMundum]

I think this is highly cultural- unfortunately! Personally, I think it's up to the individual to try to apply this for themselves, but sometimes it's difficult to work it out. What I mean is this- how high should a skirt be? How high should men's shorts be? Should they even wear shorts?

Difficult, because the principle is solid but the application can be a minefield. Cults use principles like this, interpret them for others and then enforce them under pain of sin and disfellowship. Christian fellowships should never be cultic in their approach, but likewise shouldn't be remiss in teaching the principle and letting consciences decide.

To me, the modesty issue is tied in with Dt 22:5 which deals with the matter of cross-dressing, which is perhaps one of the lesser known and taught about "abominations" to G-d. To me, this is a far more difficult and necessary question. For example- are bifurcated garments meant only for men in our culture? How about the kilt? What is the role of culture in all this?

[HadassahSukkot]

For me, I have a lot of different answers.

I Have some short sleeved shirts, but for the most part, I have been actively seeking 3/4 length shirts to go under them, or improvising by wearing the layer-shirts I have from Old Navy under them...

I got rid of a LOT of short sleeved shirts recently (a whole garbage bag worth) and kept only a few for me to use at night during summer.

I do not typically wear pants, unless I wear a very long tunic shirt or the pants I have are palazzo pants (kind of like gauchos, but LONG - you almost can't tell it isn't a skirt) - with the exception being that I have a lot of jazz pants that I wear around the house or only as PJs.

I have one pair of jeans, and I have it packed in my suitcase and ready to go, but I really have been debating getting rid of it altogether since I never wear them anyhow. I guess I keep it as a reminder.

The only other pants I have is a pair of riding breeches, and I haven't worn those in... uhm.... since 2000. (guess I'm still hoping for those riding lessons and pet horse :P) Even when I did wear them, I wore long baggy shirts over them since they're basically tights.

As far as shirts, I pretty much wear layered stuff, or nice work shirts. With the short sleeved shirts I kept and the tanks I got at Old Navy (they come just below the collar bone) - I wear them with the layered shirts from Old Navy and with nice fitted blouses.

By "fitted" I mean that it is not baggy where it shows me having no figure or me trying to completely obliviate my figure - but rather that I am modestly covering that figure in a flattering yet modest way.

I've debated going back to a more traditional German style dress complete with bodice and peasant blouse, but I wonder if that would draw more attention than I draw already with the long tznius skirts and the long sleeve shirts year round.

I do cover my hair - either with kercheifs, scarves (also from Tznius and Modest World, A Zara...) and I have invested recently in hats.

I purchased some fairly nice hairnets not too long ago (and it's time to replace them actually) and what I will do a lot of times that I don't feel like really paying attention to my hair and I want to wear a hat, I will put my hair in a pony tail and braid only the bottom half and then put that into a bun.

A lot of people have no idea how long my hair really is due to how I put it up or cover it.

Sometimes I wear it just in the pony tail and do a "loop" in the back and wear a hat or shorter scarf...

As thick and long as my hair is, I am just not in the state of mind to put it up elaborately at 5:30 in the morning to go to work. LOL

I did grow up under Mennonite Homeschooling, and braiding is totally out of the question with them... and I got talks in a couple of other congregations we went to that were against braiding due to the poor translation of "Broidered" into more modern English.... but I just slough it off at this point.

Either someone is ticked off at me for covering and being modest, or someone ticked off because I didn't do 'enough'..

I agree that children of both sexes should be instructed and discipled about modesty, and true modesty goes beyond what you wear, but also into your actions, your speech and your body language as well.

I will ask a lot of times when I leave the house how I look, and I get such mixed reactions... at this point I will be glad to be in my own home and be able to tell on my own and with the help of my husband if something is or isn't appropriate for somewhere I am going.

You just never know really.

I had to make the decision about 5 years ago that I wouldn't really care what anyone else thought about how I dress but make the attempt to please G-d and let Him begin to change my perceptions.

Slowly but surely, the items in my closet and dresser have changed out considerably and you can tell that I am definitely not looking for anyone's attention, but I am also not letting myself bleed into the background either.


One can be modest AND fashionable without being gaudy or immodest :P


Speaking of "bifurcated garments" I think that palazzos, old style gauchos (like what the ladies in the west wore when riding any way other than side-saddle was just "scandalous" (sorry, I still have to laugh at that one) and outfits like unto what are worn in the East (Pakistan/India, Japan, China, Korea) by ladies are very beautiful and can be quite modest in and of themselves.

Personally, I cannot comfortably wear short sleeves any more so that makes some of the outfits out of the question for me.

Tunics are "my big thing" right now and I'm totally jumping on that fashion bandwagon.. LOL

It's very hard for me, because I do have an hour-glass shape. What works for Many women, simply doesn't work in my case.

I'm a hard fit.. but I get by ok ;)



Speaking of men and shorts, or men with no shirts... personally that is something that still gets on my nerves and I am totally into 'surfer shorts' (the kind that come below the knee to around above mid-calf) -- and I don't mind men wearing those... something above the knee... I think if women shouldn't neither should men... and for the same reasons... Not to mention the fact I think that a lot of men do not think about how they sit when wearing said shorts....

Nakedness is nakedness, so I think it goes without saying I don't like the "no shirt" thing... Yeah I know, I have a few quirks...

[ChavaK]

I understand in Orthodox tradition, the men are supposed to avert their eyes when a woman walks by on the street.


The only time I have seen men do this is when
an immodestly dressed woman walks by.....

[ChavaK]

I personaly only wear skirts or dresses. Sleeves below
the elbows, modest tops, no tight clothing.
Skirts to midcalf.
And a sheitl to top it all off... :)

[HadassahSukkot]

The only time I have seen men do this is when
an immodestly dressed woman walks by.....
Yep.

Something really cool I found out early on when 'dating' my fiance, is that he does this regularly, and was not raised to do such...

Funny the little things that one can come back to without anyone other than HaShem leading after two generations of assimilation...

[1000 Elite Spoons]

I'll tell all you gals that it is 100% true that what you wear, regardless of how prudent I or other men are, will effect your surrounding men. It's not even a matter of how holy the other guy is... if you see a very godly man looking away from some girl in skimpy dress it's because he's had an eyeful and he doesn't care to be tempted! Men are just programmed to look. So the best thing, I suppose, it to give us nothing tempting to look at us besides a killer smile ;)

[ChavaK]

[quote=HadassahSukkot;33860080]Yep.

Something really cool I found out early on when 'dating' my fiance, is that he does this regularly, and was not raised to do such...
quote]

This is one of the things I like about tznuius....it is
not totaly dependent on the woman. Unlike Muslims,
we are not required to dress in sack like dresses
or wear burkas. We are to do our part, to dress
attractive but not attracting, and if a man has
any problems with how we look (as long as we
are following the laws of tzunius) then it is his
responsibility to look away.

[MattyJames]

[quote=HadassahSukkot;33860080]Yep.

Something really cool I found out early on when 'dating' my fiance, is that he does this regularly, and was not raised to do such...
quote]

This is one of the things I like about tznuius....it is
not totaly dependent on the woman. Unlike Muslims,
we are not required to dress in sack like dresses
or wear burkas. We are to do our part, to dress
attractive but not attracting, and if a man has
any problems with how we look (as long as we
are following the laws of tzunius) then it is his
responsibility to look away.

I've been contemplating what to say, so I thought I'd jump in here.

Well said Chavak. There is equal responsibility on both parties.
It seems to me, that evil men will always lust after women, regardless of how 'covered' they are. And likewise, evil women will always lust after men, regardless of how 'covered' they are. This of course, doesn't negate the responsibility of both parties, who are walking in goodness, purity and sanctitiy, to dress in a way that is modest. Of course, our definitions of what 'Modest' entails will differ, but I think there needs to be a recognition that both parties need to do their bit to 'examine' themselves.

Personally, for me; No shoulders, no low neck cuts (I am personally tired of seeing this), no midrift, shirts long enough that when one bends over, they don't end up with 3" on waist or otherwise showing, Pants/skirts high enough that they cover the obvious, and nothing above the knee, especially skirts. Of course, no 'clingy', streach materials, and wear the right size.

But I think it also depends on time and place. Things I wear around the house, I wouldn't be seen dead outside in. And so likewise, I don't wear jeans to bed! LOL Well, not all the time anyway :D

Another thing that gives me the hebejebies; Couples that are walking together and he is wearing jeans and longsleeve shirt - and She is wearing a skirt/ pants just covering the obvious and a small strappy top!!! What the? Ok - I understand the mentality, but it still gets to me. :doh:

I think I'm done for now.

MJ

[Bon]

I know a girl whose husband wants her to wear revealing clothes.
Now why does he want her to do that?
For his own pleasure, or to show her off to other guys?

I dont get that kind of mentality.
I can understand a man feeling proud to have a beautiful woman by his side, but why the desire to see her revealling most intimate body parts to the rest of the world? :eek:

Bon

[MattyJames]

I know a girl whose husband wants her to wear revealing clothes.
Now why does he want her to do that?
For his own pleasure, or to show her off to other guys?

I dont get that kind of mentality.
I can understand a man feeling proud to have a beautiful woman by his side, but why the desire to see her revealling most intimate body parts to the rest of the world? :eek:

Bon

Its a bit of both Bon. As a man, I can understand where he is comming from. But I fear that the relationship would be on very rocky ground.

JMO.

MJ

[Henaynei]

I know a girl whose husband wants her to wear revealing clothes.
Now why does he want her to do that?
For his own pleasure, or to show her off to other guys?

I don't get that kind of mentality.
I can understand a man feeling proud to have a beautiful woman by his side, but why the desire to see her revealing most intimate body parts to the rest of the world? :eek:

Bon I was married to someone like that once, many years ago ... and it eventually progressed to him sending his friends into our bedroom while I was sleeping (and the objective was NOT for them to just visually admire my sleeping figure) - why does a man want to share with the world that which G-d has ordained to be uniquely his (the husband's) alone? :scratch: Why don't they naturally feel rather the desire to protect and hold as precious such a gift? :scratch: :doh:

Dressing your wife or girlfriend in alluring clothing (either requiring or allowing it) and taking her out in public telegraphs to all the men the same message you got from her when you saw her like that - that message being that she is available - when the one who possesses this treasure takes it out and displays it publically the message is that the possession is for sale... :( :sigh: - and then the possessor gets wounded, angry and surprised when the possession is snapped up by a higher bidder :confused: :scratch:

[Tishri1]

I have a question for all y'll ladies now that we have talked about how dressing affects man.. maybe some of you could answer them and give me your honest opinions of what you think of the matter...

What do you guys think is appropiate and innapropiate...

are jeans appropiate?
long tops?

what constitues as "not modest"

hope I get some answers ;)

shalom shalom to all!I wear Jeans and long tops:wave:

I think wearing a great personality full of love and kindness is just as important as what you have over your flesh.....you know I dont even have many clothes and some of the outfits that fit me well I have duplicates of for convenience sake (it does get harder these days to fit the modern styles to your body and feel nice and comfortable and tasteful in them, so I'll buy 2 or 3 of the same item if needed) ....But you know people dont really notice that I do this.... really when I tell them that I have a sparse wardrobe they are actually shocked, as they really dont see me for my clothes......they see ME.... and if they see Yeshua in me then I feel that I am clothed in a priceless garment, and have a million dollar wardrobe:thumbsup:

[yeshuaslavejeff]

[quote=HadassahSukkot;33860080]

We are to do our part, to dress
attractive but not attracting, and if a man has
any problems with how we look (as long as we
are following the laws of tzunius) then it is his
responsibility to look away.

Does Yahweh's Word anywhere say
for a man or a woman to dress in a way that is attractive ?????

And if someone stumbles,
Does Scripture say 'woe to him that stumbles' ?
OR
Does Scripture say 'Don't do anything that causes stumbling ' ?

Shalom in Scripture.

[Henaynei]

Does Yahweh's Word anywhere say
for a man or a woman to dress in a way that is attractive ?????

And if someone stumbles,
Does Scripture say 'woe to him that stumbles' ?
OR
Does Scripture say 'Don't do anything that causes stumbling ' ?

Shalom in Scripture.I've always wondered,.... just who or what it is we are trying to attract when we are trying to be attractive, why and who are we trying to allure when we dress to be alluring, what is it we are trying to fetch when we work so hard to dress in a fashion that is fetching?

When and why did dressing in a prim and proper manner become improper? What made dressing like a Lady become a drag?

[AbiYah]

I think everyone is taking out of context something someone said.... :sigh:

[Tishri1]

lol probably isnt that what happens alot.....ok so the question was are we modestly dressed?

I say yes:thumbsup:

[Henaynei]

;) you still have to define "modest dress" before you can answer that question and that is where this all got "off track," although I'm not convinced that it really did ;)

[HadassahSukkot]

Does Yahweh's Word anywhere say
for a man or a woman to dress in a way that is attractive ?????


I can see I have been taken out of context. There is a difference in attractive-modest and "Atrracting immodest". Then again, I may be thinking of "attractive" in a completely different way than ya'll are perceiving me to say..

Examples:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/antsinmypants/modest_dress.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/antsinmypants/97_1_b.jpg

Or how about a trip to the Shabbos Robes (http://www.larobes.com/) website?

Add a scarf or hat and it looks nice. Typical or similar to the wear of the Observant Jewish lady/girl here.

One can be dressed modestly without looking frumpy or like they put on a potato sack with arm holes.

One can do this without revealing all of the figure as well, but without making that said figure look 3x the size it is...

One can dress with all of the mindset and heart of modesty and still have someone to lust at them. Is it then their fault? No.

Modesty is at first a heart, attitude, action, then a clothing issue.

One can dress modestly and still be immodest in word, thought and action.

[Henaynei]

One can dress with all of the mindset and heart of modesty and still have someone to lust at them. Is it then their fault? No.

Modesty is at first a heart, attitude, action, then a clothing issue.

One can dress modestly and still be immodest in word, thought and action. OMEYN:thumbsup:

[MattyJames]

I can see I have been taken out of context. There is a difference in attractive-modest and "Atrracting immodest". Then again, I may be thinking of "attractive" in a completely different way than ya'll are perceiving me to say..

Examples:

Or how about a trip to the Shabbos Robes (http://www.larobes.com/) website?

Add a scarf or hat and it looks nice. Typical or similar to the wear of the Observant Jewish lady/girl here.

One can be dressed modestly without looking frumpy or like they put on a potato sack with arm holes.

One can do this without revealing all of the figure as well, but without making that said figure look 3x the size it is...

One can dress with all of the mindset and heart of modesty and still have someone to lust at them. Is it then their fault? No.

Modesty is at first a heart, attitude, action, then a clothing issue.

One can dress modestly and still be immodest in word, thought and action.

Yes agreed. I understand the intent of your post. I too feel that we need to be careful in not going 'Over board'. - the whole sack with three holes.

MJ

[Torah]

HadassahSukkot I tip my hat to you madam & applaud you. :clap: :thumbsup:

[MattyJames]

HadassahSukkot I tip my hat to you madam & applaud you. :clap: :thumbsup:

OK then - I'll join in.

Well said mam. :D :wave:

MJ

[ChavaK]

There is a difference in attractive-modest and "Atrracting immodest".


We are not required to make ourselves unattractive-
we are to dress nicely, keep ourselves presentable,
but to follow tzunius. By attractive I meant "well
put togther" in nice, modest clothing, with
understated make up, jewelry, and hair/hat style.
You can be attractive without being "attracting"...

[HadassahSukkot]

Yep, that's what I meant too.

Here in the South, "attractive" doesn't nessisarily mean "attracting". It is more like "well put together", "pretty" -- but Pretty in letting your soul shine through rather than it being the 'feathers' you wear...

Unlike what I have seen taught in some denominations I have been affiliated with in the past who would have their women dress modestly though in a manner that makes them frumpy and unattractive in many ways...

When I think "attractive" I think like what I have shown in those photos. Feminine, but proper and unassuming. :)

[Sephania]

B"H

After reading through all the posts I am wondering if the ladies would give me their opinion on something. Some women in my congregation are not as modestly dressed as they could be, I have on many occasions had parts of flesh before my eyes and had to quickly look away.

I have been turning this over in my mind as what would be the best approach, I have thought of speaking directly to their husbands, and let them over see it as they are their head, but again since they come with their wives dressed this way I don't know if they realize the problem.

So ladies, if you were approached, in what way do you think best, so you would understand and not be offended but take to heart what is being relayed if what you were wearing was giving the wrong message? I do not want to put anyone on the defensive, nor turn anyone away, or embarrass either them or myself.:)

Very grateful for your insight.

[simchat_torah]

Do any of you think modest dress is culturally relevant? For example, could one outfit in a particular culture be considered modest, while in another culture that same outfit be considered immodest? Would this apply to the question the OP posted?

[ContentInHim]

B"H

After reading through all the posts I am wondering if the ladies would give me their opinion on something. Some women in my congregation are not as modestly dressed as they could be, I have on many occasions had parts of flesh before my eyes and had to quickly look away.

I have been turning this over in my mind as what would be the best approach, I have thought of speaking directly to their husbands, and let them over see it as they are their head, but again since they come with their wives dressed this way I don't know if they realize the problem.

So ladies, if you were approached, in what way do you think best, so you would understand and not be offended but take to heart what is being relayed if what you were wearing was giving the wrong message? I do not want to put anyone on the defensive, nor turn anyone away, or embarrass either them or myself.:)

Very grateful for your insight.
Could your wife speak to them?

This happened at a conference I attended in December. A young woman wore a sweater top cut down to there. She constantly tugged at it to cover herself. That day there was a women's meeting to cover various topics of interest to younger women and it was interesting to see that in the afternoon, this young woman had on a tank top under her low cut sweater. So I take it the older women had a bit of a talk with her. :D

[Henaynei]

Do any of you think modest dress is culturally relevant? For example, could one outfit in a particular culture be considered modest, while in another culture that same outfit be considered immodest? Would this apply to the question the OP posted?Yafet :wave: , while your premise is true and all culture today is considered relevant... yet I personally don't think modesty in the eyes of G-d is "relative" :) I think He has given standards that are immutable, and that the rabbis have known what these are for millennia ... and I struggle to grow and follow them in the face of the waves of oncoming culture relativity....

[Henaynei]

Could your wife speak to them?

This happened at a conference I attended in December. A young woman wore a sweater top cut down to there. She constantly tugged at it to cover herself. That day there was a women's meeting to cover various topics of interest to younger women and it was interesting to see that in the afternoon, this young woman had on a tank top under her low cut sweater. So I take it the older women had a bit of a talk with her. :D**excellent** solution! I'll pray that it be G-d's will that she is teachable on this issue...

but what do you think you should personally do about your "view" if she is not??

could you move to a different piece of real estate in your congregation? Perhaps you could wear your "tent" of prayer, your tallit, to cover you during prayer as well ... it makes an excellent private prayer closet ;)

b'Shalom
Henaynei

[colslass]

I was a driving instructor for over three years.... I wore 'office dress code' eg. .. baggy tops, long sleeves, no low necklines / jacket, long skirts - usually ankle boots.... and I STILL got chatted up and flirted with! (sigh) I remember one chappy had a thing going on for my ankles.... evenutally I actually gave up teaching men in such close confines and only took on lady pupils.

G-d bless men! I totally agree with the comments that men are visual creatures but what are we girlies? At the risk of shocking the more modest amongst us.... I am going to confess, as an artist I can fully appreciate a human form ... the sight of a last years firemen calendar was enough to get even my pulse racing...

but yes in answer to your question - I tend to wear long skirts and cover up tops / jackets and wear my hair tied up either in a bun / french plait with some sort of scarf or hat....

I think I would say to Ed (the one who is having trouble with scantly dressed maidens at his church) I think I would be inclined to approach my minister / rabbi / pastor and talk how I feel over with him / her. Perhaps the L-rd is (gently) trying to show you something in your walk that needs addressing...

failing that ... WWJD?

[Cheriann]

I too think that modest dress is appropriate, no short skirts, low cut shirts, no bellies showing. When my daughter was small there was controvery over some of the "cute" outfits family and friends would like to buy. I've always been of the mindset that one day she'll grow up and have a figure and then it will be too late to say that certain clothing is not acceptable, it's better not to dress her that way to start. Now that she is "grown" (19), I think she dresses way to provacatively. Hopefully now that she is a mother she will change her mindset.
As for myself, I wear pants, not too tight( I like to breath and feel my toes!!) and skirts that are ankle length as are my dresses as well. I don't wear tank tops outside at all, but do for sleeping. For awhile I always wore 3/4 or long sleeve shirts, due to some scarring I have, but found out I can use those scars to testify to the Love of HaShem and Yeshua, and how far that love can take you from where you were.
I agree that modesty begins with attitude. I learned a long time ago that it is best not to draw the attention of men. Not that it matters, because the sickos don't care what your wearing anyway.
Cheriann

[Charles YTK]

Yafet :wave: , while your premise is true and all culture today is considered relevant... yet I personally don't think modesty in the eyes of G-d is "relative" :) I think He has given standards that are immutable, and that the rabbis have known what these are for millennia ... and I struggle to grow and follow them in the face of the waves of oncoming culture relativity....
Ah Yes, The Rabbis know all. However Yapet is correct in his suggestion.


God created man and woman naked and they walked before him and were without shame.

In the days of the Lord men who worked the boats fishing did so naked. John 21:7 and many historical sources.

[Cheriann]

failing that ... WWJD?

Ask His Father!!:) :wave:

[simchat_torah]

Ah Yes, The Rabbis know all. However Yapet is correct in his suggestion.


God created man and woman naked and they walked before him and were without shame.

In the days of the Lord men who worked the boats fishing did so naked. John 21:7 and many historical sources.I'll be honest and say it isn't even something I've looked at in depth. But I'd suspect that even the Rabbinical interpretation has evolved over time?

But yeah, interesting Charles... even Biblically speaking it has evolved ;)

-Yafet

[colslass]

Ask His Father!!:) :wave:
LOL! :0D

ohhh you have smilies - cant find mine!

[Cheriann]

LOL! :0D

ohhh you have smilies - cant find mine!
When you post a reply, look to the right of "Post Quick Reply", click on "Go Advanced" and there you go.:thumbsup:

[MessianicArtist]

I try to dress very modestly. I do not show cleavage, as seems to be the current fashion, for example, even with my choice of bathing suit.
Just in general (never gave it a thought in years past, so naive) I try not to do anything that would cause me to be a stumbling block to a guy, especially a married man, but any guy really.

Though I have been Messianic for over 3 years I still like to listen to some Christian radio. Recently a man was talking there very frankly about how women's dress sometimes causes him problems. Some may say, Well, he is too easily bothered.

I don't think so. There are horomonal varations with men I'm sure, but I think YHWH made men to be "turned on" at the sight of women's anatomy, and that he intended this to help create a bond between a man and his wife.

One thing that interested me in this man's talk was that he said it bothered him to see women hanging purse straps between their
breasts. That is one thing that had not occured to me.

I think if we women want to know what is modest and what is not, we can go directly to the source - men! - and ask them to tell us. I believe that as long as we just accept them as they are when they tell the truth, that they will be happy to share.

I am not married at this time but I do remember my former husband telling me that summer was a difficult time for him in terms of temptation with other women because of all the shorts.

We need to be smarter than the purveyors of pornography. They know very well how men are so visual and exploit them, while we can help them instead.