Baptist response to homosexuals

[thehayesman]

I would like to know how we should respond to homosexuals in church or if we work with them? What would you say to this statement? (yes, no, suggestions)

"I worship Jesus Christ, who never mentioned homosexuals in any
way—certainly not in a deleterious fashion. I've never looked upon
it as a reason to condemn a person."
--Jimmy Carter, in The Advocate,
January 17, 2006:hug:

[TwinCrier]

Unfortunately anyone who would say that probably doesn't believe the bible is the word of God, at least not in it's entirety (translation: only the parts they agree with are God's word).

I think it's important that we are careful not to even make the appearance of accepting buggery as it makes it difficult to witness the truth of the bible once you've made someone comfortable in their sin. No doubt 2000 years ago sodomy was accepted as a sin and needed no further condemnation from the Lord. Even sexual relations between a heterosexual couple that was engaged was punishable by death. We live in an evil age and we can't expect the world to see how truly evil it is without Christ.

[Kgreg]

I would like to know how we should respond to homosexuals in church or if we work with them? What would you say to this statement? (yes, no, suggestions)

"I worship Jesus Christ, who never mentioned homosexuals in any
way—certainly not in a deleterious fashion. I've never looked upon
it as a reason to condemn a person."
--Jimmy Carter, in The Advocate,
January 17, 2006:hug:

I'm a repentant homosexual. I've been asked a number of times around here how to witness to homosexuals. I wish I had a really good answer that specifically addressed their condition, but I don't.

I really think it's like witnessing to anyone else. Everyone is fallen and outside of God's will for HIs creation until they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. Those who accept Him must then live within His will, and a part of that is no sex outside of marriage, for anyone, and the Bible provides only for marriage between a man and a woman.

I don't condemn anyone, because Jesus said He didn't come to comdenm the world, but to free it. So, we're really always trying to do the "hate the sin, but love sinner" thing. It's easy for the homosexuals to misunderstand that. I just tell them the truth about the Gospel, that everyone needs Jesus and why, and then treat them like anyone else I have to deal with. It guess that's easy for the "work" part of your question.

In church it's a little different. If they are there to hear the Gospel and they have questions tell them the truth. If they want to become a member, but are not repentant, that's a different issue. My church, which is a baptist church without "baptist" in it's name, doesn't allow unrepentant homosexuals to become members, but they are always welcome at our services. We're in NYC (Manhattan) so we have some repentant homosexuals, like I am, and we have a few unrepentant ones who come to church but are still clinging to the idea that gay sex is not sin. (Please pray for them.) The church doesn't allow them to become members.

As far as former president Carter is concerned, I think he's a good man, and maybe he knows the Lord, but he's a politician. They can't always tell the truth, even if they know it and want to. I agree with him that we shouldn't comdemn the person, and making deliterious remarks about "gays" doesn't serve to spread the Good News, but we can't let people think that homosexual sex acts are acceptable to God. The Bible is clear on this, no matter how people, even some Christians, seem to think it isn't.

[CandleLightSky]

I don't know about "Hate the sin love the sinner" thing...always sounds like a cheesy jingle, it also implies that your hating people for their sin--to say the hate the sin and love the sinner separates the sin from the sinner....that doesn't make sense at all and confuses me(Honestly it sounds like Arminianism to me).

[the truth]

I think Ray Comfort's method is pretty good here. You use the law to show a homosexual he is damned despite his sin. go to www.wayofthemaster.com (http://www.wayofthemaster.com) they should have more info on it. God bless. :)

[MrJim]

I don't know about "Hate the sin love the sinner" thing...always sounds like a cheesy jingle, it also implies that your hating people for their sin--to say the hate the sin and love the sinner separates the sin from the sinner....that doesn't make sense at all and confuses me(Honestly it sounds like Arminianism to me).

:D I don't even know what that means but it's interesting

I had a homosexual working for me for a lot of years and wish he was still with me and that I had more like him. He was open about and had the rainbow triangle tattoo and brought his boyfriend to the corporate functions.

He knew how I felt about his choice and we discussed it once many years ago.

I made it clear to others (in a strong but subtle way) that I would tolerate no verbal abuse at all. His work was his testimony that he simply was there to do his job.

Anyhow, hating the sin and loving the sinner--Glad that is how God loves us.

[Joykins]

I don't know.

What I do think is that homosexuals are exactly the kind of people Jesus came for, associated with, hung out with, etc. ... somehow I think whatever I say I won't get the same reaction he did, best to let the gospel itself speak to people's hearts.

[DeaconDean]

I would like to know how we should respond to homosexuals in church or if we work with them? What would you say to this statement? (yes, no, suggestions)

"I worship Jesus Christ, who never mentioned homosexuals in any
way—certainly not in a deleterious fashion. I've never looked upon
it as a reason to condemn a person."
--Jimmy Carter, in The Advocate,
January 17, 2006:hug:

I don't know how it is anywhere else, but if you confront someone in the workplace about their sexual orintation here in the south, you can be sued for harassment. Me personally, I ask them if they know Jesus Christ as their Savior. If not the I witness for about 5 minutes and them wish them well. If they are in the workplace, after witnessing to them, I believe one of the strongest witnesses we can give them is to show, by our lives, how we live, and how we talk, and how God is blessing us. As far as church, the usual tactics work well, but you don't want to be pushy. One method I found that works well is the F.I.R.E. method.

Friendship, get to know them on a personal level first.
Interests, get to know their likes and dislikes and see if you are together on the same grounds.
Relationship, build a relationship with them so that they can see your sincerity.
Evangelize, present the gospel in a non-confrontational way.
It's not always perfect, but you'll be suprised at the results.

[Joykins]

I think it's important that we are careful not to even make the appearance of accepting buggery as it makes it difficult to witness the truth of the bible once you've made someone comfortable in their sin. No doubt 2000 years ago sodomy was accepted as a sin and needed no further condemnation from the Lord.

Actually, some forms of homosexuality were pretty much acceptable for men in the ancient Greek and Roman world.

Even sexual relations between a heterosexual couple that was engaged was punishable by death.

This sounds like a complete fabrication. Usually it was punishable by moving up the wedding date in case of a pregnancy, and it certainly is NOT punishable by death under Levitical law.

[Sword-In-Hand]

Actually, some forms of homosexuality were pretty much acceptable for men in the ancient Greek and Roman world.



This sounds like a complete fabrication. Usually it was punishable by moving up the wedding date in case of a pregnancy, and it certainly is NOT punishable by death under Levitical law.

It was only punishable by death if it involved a woman having sex with a married man, or a unmarried, or married man having sex with a married woman. The punishment for an umarried man and woman was to get married.

[arunma]

I would like to know how we should respond to homosexuals in church or if we work with them? What would you say to this statement? (yes, no, suggestions)

"I worship Jesus Christ, who never mentioned homosexuals in any
way—certainly not in a deleterious fashion. I've never looked upon
it as a reason to condemn a person."
--Jimmy Carter, in The Advocate,
January 17, 2006:hug:

Assuming that this faithfully records President Carter's words, it is a horrible argument. It is true that the Gospels don't record Jesus discussing homosexuality. But he also did not discuss pedophilia, racism, abortion, and a whole host of other equally abominable sins. Yet we do not deny that these things are also evil. The Apostle John openly admitted in his Gospel that there were many acts of the Lord Jesus that were went unrecorded. Furthermore, the Prophet Moses and the Apostle Paul, who wrote under the Spirit's inspiration, did mention homosexuality.

As to how we should minister to homosexuals, I haven't had much experience, so I can't say for certain. But as others have said, we ought to condemn the sin, but not the homosexual. Gay people are not greater sinners than the rest of us, and we should keep that in mind.

[Flynmonkie]

I would like to know how we should respond to homosexuals in church or if we work with them? What would you say to this statement? (yes, no, suggestions)

I respond to them in no different way than I would anyone. First of all I think of the mercy God has given me in learning in my walk, the instructions that I should also represent this sort of mercy in my daily life. I think of all the times I have made mistakes, or will make mistakes in my walk and it humbles me. I don't give my opinion on this subject, unless asked. Which is usually stated with an "I believe" and ends with "but this is something between you and God". I cannot judge you in this manner; I can never know your heart. I have been in conversation and friends with others that lead a lifestyle like this. It was rather difficult at first. But I think it all boils down to humility. If someone is earnestly seeking God, I am not going to divert that in any way, I have that much faith in the Holy Spirit. This sin is no different than struggles any one of us have in our own daily Christian walk. IMHO

People have to realize, many whom are this way I feel truly do not believe what they are doing is wrong. What makes matters worse is that there are people out there, feeding them twisted scripture to boost that thought. I believe conviction comes from God, not from us in this sense. You have no idea their background, what causes one to feel this way. Only God can see and understand this. I believe God wants them to come to him too. (The lost sheep)

So I leave it at that, they are people that have learning to do in their walk—just like me. It is just that simple. I believe by "disowning" or "shunning" gives no encouragement for anyone to want to be a Christian. This way simply makes no sense. I believe our role here is to uplift not to condemn, that is the role of the Holy Spirit. There are times and places where our opinion should be given, but this is not one of them.

[Jebediah]

I know this is a sticky issue, but I go to a Baptist church and thought I would put in my 2 cents. There simply doesn't need to be a direct negative injunction against homosexuality (let's ignore the whole arsenokoites bits for the moment, as that is contestable and debatable, the following argument is not).

1. Sexual relations are only acceptable in marriage. Porneia is the NT Greek word used in all cases where "sexual immorality" or "fornication" is translated and is very clear and consistent in meaning all "illegitimate sex", legitimate meaning within marriage.

2. Marriage is defined in Genesis and in general throughout the Bible. Paul (as usual) is quite distinct in all instructions on marriage in naming both the wife and husband and NT Greek words used are not generic...they define a woman and a man (each woman and each man, to be precise) and they, when used like this, clearly imply husband/wife relationship. Greek is not as vague as some would like you to think...remember, this was the language of the first philosophers and the language in which the first rhetoric and logic was defined as such.

3. Therefore, any sexual relations other than between married partners is "porneia" and therefore forbidden and is sin throughout the NT. All the "sin lists" are just a scattering of sex acts outside marriage that were common then (adultery, actual fornication, incest, bestiality, etc). The inclusion of "arsenokoites" in these lists may well refer to pederasty, as some assert, or indeed be translated as homosexuals...but in the end it simply does not matter because either one is "porneia"...sex outside Biblically defined marriage.

4. Therefore homosexual acts, being between people not only unmarried but, by the Biblical definition unmarryable, are clearly sinful. So are all those things not directly forbidden in the Bible even though we know there is no way it is okay (I really think no apostle would have thought they needed to tell us necrophilia was not ok) because they also fall into this category.

There you go. No weird meanderings on what a Greek "fake word" created out of two words from the Greek OT (Septuagint) and therefore infinitely arguable and debatable. No need to fall back on questionable human interpretations and traditions of one church or another. No need to be persuaded by homophobia or bigotry. Very simply, perfection is a very high standard, and yet it is the one we are called to by our God.

No amount of weaseling gets around this...there is one righteous place for sexual reltionships, and that is marriage. There is one definition of marriage, and it is between a man and a woman, consistent throughout scripture. There is no need for actual negative injunctions against individual sexual sins...the positive injunction towards marriage defines all exclusions for us.

Just my .02$

[blessedmomof5]

I have no problems with homosexuals, i have a few in my family that are, i am not here to judge them , that is not my job. like a few said here we are all sinners and are there any sins greater then the next? all the preaching to them in the world will not change them unless they are willing to change.:prayer:

[Lilit]

Homosexuals are gay

[blessedmomof5]

nm

[SOTK]

I don't know about "Hate the sin love the sinner" thing...always sounds like a cheesy jingle, it also implies that your hating people for their sin--to say the hate the sin and love the sinner separates the sin from the sinner....that doesn't make sense at all and confuses me(Honestly it sounds like Arminianism to me).

It is arminianism. I can't stand hearing that phrase. I believe it's unbiblical.

I believe God loathes sin. Jesus rebuked often and was quick to point out the sin in others. He forgave when the person engaging in the sinful behavior stopped and they repented. Forgiveness did not come until then.

You're right. The sin cannot be seperated from the sinner, because when we sin we sin from our heart.

Homosexuality is an abomination and should be viewed as such. I am disgusted by society's acceptance of this type of depravity but even more disgusted by the Christian indifference displayed towards homosexuality. Personally, I speak out every chance I can get about this form of depravity. We all should.

I will work with a homosexual. I can't control their employment, however, they will know how I feel, and I will speak about Christ and His Word every chance I get. I won't soft-soap the Truth. It wasn't with me, thank Christ! I had a one-way ticket to Hell before God granted me the Gift of Faith and placed His Children in my life to witness to me. Amen!

There is a spiritual battle going on around us. The quote from Jimmy Carter is evidence of that. All one has to do is watch the news or read the paper to see more. Homosexuality is one arena that Satan is having a lot of fun with right now, and if you ask me, too much fun!

Homosexuals need to know that they are going to Hell. Once they hear this, we can talk with them about the sweet atoning blood of Jesus Christ.

[Flynmonkie]

No one said anything about not discussing consequence to action.

Question, do you believe everything you hear when you think your right?
What does it take? What kind of attitude should be displayed that will make you listen? Or even have a desire to?

Each person has a different path of understanding, or growth. I cannot EVER assume you are on the same path at the same time of sanctification. You might know Christ but still continue to gossip, be a troublemaker, or be proud, or hurt the innocent. It seems clear in the Bible those are things the Lord hates most. Yes, God hates sin, but there are some that are particularly more evil than others IMHO. Being a stumbling block (feet that run rapidly to evil) is another. Sorry, those are the sins I concentrate more on in people than the every day run of the mill screw-ups.

Is this how you feel our Merciful God has dealt with your sin? God hates sin – not you. God loves all of us and wants ALL to come to Him. That is the message we should be carrying. Once people have a firm grasp of Gods love- they then can understand Gods justice. I firmly believe it is not the other way around.

God is love. God is just but the whole purpose for everything He stands for is Love. Pure undying love for each and every one of us.

[MrJim]

It is arminianism. I can't stand hearing that phrase. I believe it's unbiblical.

Do you think those arminians are as big a threat to the faith as the homosexuals?

[Joykins]

I respond to them in no different way than I would anyone. First of all I think of the mercy God has given me in learning in my walk, the instructions that I should also represent this sort of mercy in my daily life. I think of all the times I have made mistakes, or will make mistakes in my walk and it humbles me. I don't give my opinion on this subject, unless asked. Which is usually stated with an "I believe" and ends with "but this is something between you and God". I cannot judge you in this manner; I can never know your heart. I have been in conversation and friends with others that lead a lifestyle like this. It was rather difficult at first. But I think it all boils down to humility. If someone is earnestly seeking God, I am not going to divert that in any way, I have that much faith in the Holy Spirit. This sin is no different than struggles any one of us have in our own daily Christian walk. IMHO

People have to realize, many whom are this way I feel truly do not believe what they are doing is wrong. What makes matters worse is that there are people out there, feeding them twisted scripture to boost that thought. I believe conviction comes from God, not from us in this sense. You have no idea their background, what causes one to feel this way. Only God can see and understand this. I believe God wants them to come to him too. (The lost sheep)

So I leave it at that, they are people that have learning to do in their walk—just like me. It is just that simple. I believe by "disowning" or "shunning" gives no encouragement for anyone to want to be a Christian. This way simply makes no sense. I believe our role here is to uplift not to condemn, that is the role of the Holy Spirit. There are times and places where our opinion should be given, but this is not one of them.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Flynmonkie again.

[mesue]

I would like to know how we should respond to homosexuals in church or if we work with them? What would you say to this statement? (yes, no, suggestions)

"I worship Jesus Christ, who never mentioned homosexuals in any
way—certainly not in a deleterious fashion. I've never looked upon
it as a reason to condemn a person."
--Jimmy Carter, in The Advocate,
January 17, 2006:hug:

We need to respond to a homsexual as we would respond to any other sinner that comes to our church. Homosexuality is only one sin. All sin separates us from God. All sin requires attonement. Jesus died for all sin. We're all sinners. We, who have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior, are sinners saved by grace.
How do we respond to adulterers, fornicators, gluttony, backbitting, etc? How did Jesus respond to sinner? He healed them and forgave them. Are we not called to do the same, we who are sinners saved by grace?
FWIW Jesus and God are one in the same. God wrote the Bible both OT and NT. Therefore Jimmy Carter was mis-spoken, or taken out of context.

[mesue]

:wave: :hug: Hi friends from another site that love to see what we have to say ;) LOL

[SOTK]

Do you think those arminians are as big a threat to the faith as the homosexuals?

To the Faith? No, not necessarily. I do strongly disagree with Arminianism, however, Arminians are Christians. The theological differences between Calvinists and Arminians is nonsalvific for the most part.

I do, however, believe that the Five Points of Arminianism do not hold up to sound scriptural exegesis. While I disagree with all five of these points, I do believe the fifth point is especially harmful to the brother or sister in Christ. In this point, it's asserted that one can lose their salvation.

[SOTK]

:wave: :hug: Hi friends from another site that love to see what we have to say ;) LOL

Hi! :wave:

[MrJim]

To the Faith? No, not necessarily. I do strongly disagree with Arminianism, however, Arminians are Christians. .

Thanks for recognizing us as Christians...:sigh:

[Crazy Liz]

:wave: :hug: Hi friends from another site that love to see what we have to say ;) LOL
Hi, Mesue! Miss you elsewhere.

[ZiSunka]

I would like to know how we should respond to homosexuals in church or if we work with them? What would you say to this statement? (yes, no, suggestions)

"I worship Jesus Christ, who never mentioned homosexuals in any
way—certainly not in a deleterious fashion. I've never looked upon
it as a reason to condemn a person."
--Jimmy Carter, in The Advocate,
January 17, 2006:hug:

I worship Jesus Christ, who never condemned anyone, even sinners. Jesus didn't come into the world to condemn people, but that through Him, sinners might be saved (John 3:17).

I don't see any reason to condemn any person. We can criticize their behaviors without condemning the people who do those behaviors.

[SOTK]

We need to respond to a homsexual as we would respond to any other sinner that comes to our church. Homosexuality is only one sin. All sin separates us from God. All sin requires attonement. Jesus died for all sin. We're all sinners. We, who have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior, are sinners saved by grace.
How do we respond to adulterers, fornicators, gluttony, backbitting, etc? How did Jesus respond to sinner? He healed them and forgave them. Are we not called to do the same, we who are sinners saved by grace?
FWIW Jesus and God are one in the same. God wrote the Bible both OT and NT. Therefore Jimmy Carter was mis-spoken, or taken out of context.

I pretty much agree with this except for a few parts. ;)

I don't believe Christians are sinners. It is wrong to label ourselves in this way. Christians are Children of God. We are Saints. We are the Elect. If one does a careful analysis of the New Testament, we are never referred to as "sinners". The term "sinners" is a term which is almost exclusively reserved for the unregenerate man. In other words, the pagan or the non-believer. Organized religion has wrongfully taught us to refer to ourselves in such a manner, but this is unbiblical. We are Saints! When we are given the Gift of Faith by God and then repent, we become regenerated. Our old sin nature is destroyed. We are baptized in the Holy Spirit and become new. We are made righteous by the atoning blood of Jesus Christ! Amen! This is a very important truth to grasp. Our Identity is in Christ and not sin. We are already righteous! We don't need to act (works) towards righteousness. Righteousness comes from our state of being- our identity.

Paul taught us how to respond to sin within our Churches:

1 Corinthians 5:9-11
I wrote to you in my epistle not keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need togo out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner- not ever to eat with such a person.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3
Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

Yes, all sin needs to be rebuked within our church. It was not my intention to state otherwise, however, the topic of this thread has to do with homosexuality. And this is one sin which has been labeled as an "abomination" by God and it is a sin which the world is attempting to excuse (amongst others).

Regarding forgiveness, Jesus did not forgive until the sinner was repentent. Forgiveness comes after repentence. He taught this.

Matthew 18:15-17
"Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother." 16 "But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' 17 "And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector".

Jesus teaches us how to judge here:

Matthew 7:1-5
"Judge not , that you be not judged. 2 "For with what judgement you judge, you will be judged: and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 "And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?" 4 "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

Matthew 7 is often misinterpreted. The message is twofold: 1) He warns us about hypocritical judgement 2) He teaches us the proper way to judge.

Listen, I am big on forgiveness and grace. Believe me! I love extending both! Both have been extended to me! Amen! It's just that repentance is huge. And Going to hell is permanent. The unregenerate person needs to understand this. Their behavior and sin is unacceptable to God. Continued disobedience and immorality leads to permament death. This needs to be communicated. Once it has and the sinner is open to discussing the solution, the grace and love which exists in our Lord can be communicated.

God does not tolerate sin. If He did, than Christ would not have been necessary. We, as Children of God, should also not tolerate sin- within the Body or within the world. Christianity is not about tolerance. It's about Life and communion with God!

In Christ,

SOTK

[SOTK]

Thanks for recognizing us as Christians...:sigh:

Do others not recognize Arminians as Christians here?

[MrJim]

Do others not recognize Arminians as Christians here?

I've not had problems here but I have run into those that believe arminian teachings are "another gospel"

[mesue]

I pretty much agree with this except for a few parts. ;)

I don't believe Christians are sinners. It is wrong to label ourselves in this way. Christians are Children of God. We are Saints. We are the Elect. If one does a careful analysis of the New Testament, we are never referred to as "sinners" ...
It's okay to disagree, and I have to disagree with you.
I sin every day, I may lie, I may gossip, I may over indulge in food or the computer or spending or something, and yet I know that when I die I will go straight to heaven. Why, because I have trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior.
Paul tells us that we all struggle with sin, and that some sins we easily go back to. That sin that doth easily beset us. But he encourages us to perservere in our race towards Christ likeness. To keep going to Christ and laying down our burdens at the foot of the Cross until we get the victory over that sin that doth easily beset us.


Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,


John tells us that we can get right with the Lord again. And we lie if we say we aren't sinning.

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

[SOTK]

It's okay to disagree, and I have to disagree with you.
I sin every day, I may lie, I may gossip, I may over indulge in food or the computer or spending or something, and yet I know that when I die I will go straight to heaven. Why, because I have trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior.
Paul tells us that we all struggle with sin, and that some sins we easily go back to. That sin that doth easily beset us. But he encourages us to perservere in our race towards Christ likeness. To keep going to Christ and laying down our burdens at the foot of the Cross until we get the victory over that sin that doth easily beset us.

John tells us that we can get right with the Lord again. And we lie if we say we aren't sinning.


I don't say that I have never sinned. I don't sin anymore! Christ conquered sin on the cross! I am free of it! Through Christ I have been made righteous. I will not crucify Him over and over and over again.

1 John 1:9 is not a license to sin. It says we will be forgiven if we confess our sins. I have already done that. I did it the day God granted me the Gift of Faith.

If you read Paul's epistle's carefully, he talks about the flesh. We all still have our flesh, but we also have the Holy Spirit. Because we have this, we are new righteous creatures in God, however, our flesh still exists. We won't receive our new bodies until later. While in the world and while existing with this flesh, we may make errors, but we don't have to. If we recognize our Identity in Christ on a daily basis and recognize that we are already righteous, we will act accordingly.

[Flynmonkie]

I don't sin anymore! Christ conquered sin on the cross! I am free of it! Through Christ I have been made righteous. I will not crucify Him over and over and over again.

I do not believe that Perfection will be attained until Glorification. Sue I agree with you completely. The difference between a Christian and a non Christian and what Christ has done for us is that we can recognize that sinful nature in our lives as believers - as we mature in Christ we learn put away those things. This is what I consider sanctification . Sanctification is a life long process. We will never become perfect in this lifetime, but we want to strive for perfection. IMHCO

To walk this earth and believe that you are sinless - to me is a smack in Gods face. The only sinless being here was Christ. Yes penalty was paid, however we are still by far from sinless creatures. We will always have that sinful nature to struggle with as Paul explains to us. The difference is that now we have a way through it. IMHCO

[mesue]

I don't say that I have never sinned. I don't sin anymore! Christ conquered sin on the cross! I am free of it! Through Christ I have been made righteous. I will not crucify Him over and over and over again.

1 John 1:9 is not a license to sin. It says we will be forgiven if we confess our sins. I have already done that. I did it the day God granted me the Gift of Faith.

If you read Paul's epistle's carefully, he talks about the flesh. We all still have our flesh, but we also have the Holy Spirit. Because we have this, we are new righteous creatures in God, however, our flesh still exists. We won't receive our new bodies until later. While in the world and while existing with this flesh, we may make errors, but we don't have to. If we recognize our Identity in Christ on a daily basis and recognize that we are already righteous, we will act accordingly.
You are free from the consequences, wages, of your sin. But one cannot purport that they no longer sin. It just isn't so. 1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

There was only One that was sinless and that was Christ Jesus. Even He said He wasn't good. He said there is none good.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Can you keep all 613 commandments? Have you kept them since the day you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior?
I never said I had a license to sin. I do read Paul's epistles carefully, I believe what Paul says:


Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
But when we do sin, if we confess our sin He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteouness. Because we will sin. If we didn't sin, we would be God. I'm not God. I love Jesus and want to be like Jesus, and I think I'm better at it than I was when I was first saved, but I am so short of the mark. I'm not Jesus. I'm not perfect. Nor will I be until the day He calls me home.

[MrJim]

It's okay to disagree, and I have to disagree with you.
I sin every day, I may lie, I may gossip, I may over indulge in food or the computer or spending or something, and yet I know that when I die I will go straight to heaven. Why, because I have trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior.
Paul tells us that we all struggle with sin, and that some sins we easily go back to. That sin that doth easily beset us. But he encourages us to perservere in our race towards Christ likeness. To keep going to Christ and laying down our burdens at the foot of the Cross until we get the victory over that sin that doth easily beset us.

John tells us that we can get right with the Lord again. And we lie if we say we aren't sinning.


:thumbsup: :amen:

[TwinCrier]

It was only punishable by death if it involved a woman having sex with a married man, or a unmarried, or married man having sex with a married woman. The punishment for an umarried man and woman was to get married.
Marriage is a punishment? ^_^ I guess it depends on who you marry. ;)
I worship Jesus Christ, who never condemned anyone, even sinners. Jesus didn't come into the world to condemn people, but that through Him, sinners might be saved (John 3:17).

I don't see any reason to condemn any person. We can criticize their behaviors without condemning the people who do those behaviors.Unfortunately many in society today do not make that distinction. Any condemnation of their behavior is labeled 'hate.' Particularly of this particular sin.

[Crazy Liz]

It was only punishable by death if it involved a woman having sex with a married man, or a unmarried, or married man having sex with a married woman. The punishment for an umarried man and woman was to get married.
I noticed Twin quoting this from page 1, so it seems like there is some discussion on this. Actually, Sword, you are not quite correct. Sex between a married man and a woman not his wife was not considered adultery in the OT, and was not punishable by death or anything else. It was only the woman's marital status (married or betrothed) that made heterosexual sex punishable.

[Sword-In-Hand]

I noticed Twin quoting this from page 1, so it seems like there is some discussion on this. Actually, Sword, you are not quite correct. Sex between a married man and a woman not his wife was not considered adultery in the OT, and was not punishable by death or anything else. It was only the woman's marital status (married or betrothed) that made heterosexual sex punishable.

Yep, you're right;)

[Joykins]

I noticed Twin quoting this from page 1, so it seems like there is some discussion on this. Actually, Sword, you are not quite correct. Sex between a married man and a woman not his wife was not considered adultery in the OT, and was not punishable by death or anything else. It was only the woman's marital status (married or betrothed) that made heterosexual sex punishable.

God has a double standard? :eek:

[Crazy Liz]

God has a double standard? :eek:
The Mosaic Law does.

[Tenorvoice]

Closed for Staff review.