Gays, liberal Chistians target Southern Baptists

[Kgreg]

Take a look at this anti-Southern Baptist propaganda that was handed out to attendees at the SBC annual meeting in Nashville last June:

http://www.soulforce.org/pdf/youthstudyguide.pdf

I know these people have good intentions at heart, but we can't let their emotional pleas or guilt-inducing, veiled accusations of complicity in the murder of "LGBT" persons compel us to approve sin.

They even invoke Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., who never advocated homosexuality as acceptable practice for a Christian.

[DawnLuvsTrolls]

Do all SBC indorse this? I can't imagine the SBC , which is supposed to be conservative, allowing such nonsense.

[Lenora56]

Do all SBC indorse this?

Absolutely not. I remember that something having to do with homosexuals occurred a few years ago in a S Baptist church, and the SBC refused to accept any more contributions from them or allow them a voice in the SBC. Of course, if they wanted to, I'm sure they could still call themselves Southern Baptist; I don't know if they did or not.

I can't imagine the SBC , which is supposed to be conservative, allowing such nonsense.

I cannot imagine either.:wave:

[Kgreg]

Do all SBC indorse this? I can't imagine the SBC , which is supposed to be conservative, allowing such nonsense.

Sorry I wasn't totally clear. This organization is not SBC. It's a pro-gay "christian" organization comprised of the liberal "Gay is OK" denominations (United Church of Christ, E Lutheran Church, Prebyterian USA, etc.. They passed out this literature OUTSIDE the convention, on the street, to attendees going in.

[TwinCrier]

Sorry I wasn't totally clear. This organization is not SBC. It's a pro-gay "christian" organization comprised of the liberal "Gay is OK" denominations (United Church of Christ, E Lutheran Church, Prebyterian USA, etc.. They passed out this literature OUTSIDE the convention, on the street, to attendees going in.Sounds like a hate crime... ;)

[CandleLightSky]

Definitely nothing SBC would publish...sounds like they are just using the name to add credibility.

[DeaconDean]

Being a member of the SBC, we do not endorse in any way the views of the more liberal churches. We do not allow "gay" pastors, nor "gay" elders or deacons, or "gay" teachers, or "gays" to hold any position within the church body. Now we do not exclude them from the services, but as to having a say so in church business, no way. To the SBC these people are living in sin and there is no true repentance in their lives and unless they repent and turn from their sins, they can't have no say so in anything the church does. As I said before in another thread, we are to "hate the sin, but love the sinner." And BTW, here in the southern part of the USA, I have to give a hand of thanks to the Presbyterian denomination, they have adopted the same position as the Baptists. Kudos to them, God will remember them someday.

[arunma]

Ah, let them do what they want. The way I see it, the more information people have, the better. Just as Moses presented good and evil to the children of Israel, and implored them to choose the good, I suppose that the same is happening here. I've attended a liberal church before, and while they are nice people, it's plainly obvious to me that what they preach is not the Gospel in its purest form.

[Kgreg]

Being a member of the SBC, we do not endorse in any way the views of the more liberal churches. We do not allow "gay" pastors, nor "gay" elders or deacons, or "gay" teachers, or "gays" to hold any position within the church body. Now we do not exclude them from the services, but as to having a say so in church business, no way. To the SBC these people are living in sin and there is no true repentance in their lives and unless they repent and turn from their sins, they can't have no say so in anything the church does. As I said before in another thread, we are to "hate the sin, but love the sinner." And BTW, here in the southern part of the USA, I have to give a hand of thanks to the Presbyterian denomination, they have adopted the same position as the Baptists. Kudos to them, God will remember them someday.

You must mean the Presbyterian Church (PCA) the conservative one. The Presbyterian Church (USA) is liberal and allows homosexuals to be unrepentant. It's important to distingish between the two branches.

[CandleLightSky]

I read most of it last night out of curiousity and the Bible studies are basically that Jesus loved outcasts and yada yada yada. It expects you to connect the dots and saw- well gays are outcasts and we should love them too. Pushes for a more progressive culture and gays are the new outcasts that Jesus would have included in his church...very predictable.

[arunma]

I read most of it last night out of curiousity and the Bible studies are basically that Jesus loved outcasts and yada yada yada. It expects you to connect the dots and saw- well gays are outcasts and we should love them too. Pushes for a more progressive culture and gays are the new outcasts that Jesus would have included in his church...very predictable.

But it is wrong for them to make the analogy between gays and "outcasts" in the first place. It minimizes the situation of those who really are outcasts. The outcasts to whom Jesus ministered were mostly racial and class minorities. A person cannot change the color of his skin or his class in society, and Jesus loved these people because they were oppressed. Gays, on the other hand, make a conscious choice to practice homosexuality and to violate the law of God.

Does this mean that Jesus does not love these people also? Of course not; Christ does love such people. But whereas Jesus would never ask a Samaritan (that is, a racial minority) to repent for being a Samaritan, or a poor man for being poor, he does demand that even homosexuals repent for their sin.

[Andyman_1970]

As a member of an SBC church I’d like to comment on this subject……..

……….. but as to having a say so in church business, no way. To the SBC these people are living in sin and there is no true repentance in their lives and unless they repent and turn from their sins, they can't have no say so in anything the church does.

What about all the non-gay members of our SBC church who live in sin like gluttony (how many overweight pastors and deacons are there in SBC churches), gossip (I have a prayer request about so and so), liars, adulterers (remember Matthew 5 it only has to be looking), murder (remember Matthew 5 it only has to be “I don’t like so and so”), greed, coveting……….the list could go on.

While I understand the point you are trying to make (and agree with it as well), it’s a bit hypocritical to exclude one group of sinners because it’s more “public” than the sins of the congregation that we get so good at hiding from the general public.

Sometimes I think the church needs to get it’s act cleaned up before it can ever look outside itself and comment on the lives of others….that whole log and speck deal Jesus talks about.

[arunma]

As a member of an SBC church I’d like to comment on this subject……..



What about all the non-gay members of our SBC church who live in sin like gluttony (how many overweight pastors and deacons are there in SBC churches), gossip (I have a prayer request about so and so), liars, adulterers (remember Matthew 5 it only has to be looking), murder (remember Matthew 5 it only has to be “I don’t like so and so”), greed, coveting……….the list could go on.

While I understand the point you are trying to make (and agree with it as well), it’s a bit hypocritical to exclude one group of sinners because it’s more “public” than the sins of the congregation that we get so good at hiding from the general public.

Sometimes I think the church needs to get it’s act cleaned up before it can ever look outside itself and comment on the lives of others….that whole log and speck deal Jesus talks about.

I agree with you in philosophy. Fortunately, most people agree that gluttony, gossip, lying, lust, murder, greed, and coveting are all sins. There is some debate as to whether or not homosexuality really is a sin. Christians should all be convinced that homosexuality is not proper according to God's laws. That is why we focus on it to such an extent. But you are right to say that we should all examine ourselves. Lusting after a person of the opposite sex is no better than having a homosexual relationship.

[Stacey]

It's true all sins are equal in God's eyes, but we can't continue to sin especially when we know it's wrong. Their 'problem' is that they are blind to the fact that they are wrong.

[Joykins]

But it is wrong for them to make the analogy between gays and "outcasts" in the first place. It minimizes the situation of those who really are outcasts. The outcasts to whom Jesus ministered were mostly racial and class minorities. A person cannot change the color of his skin or his class in society, and Jesus loved these people because they were oppressed. Gays, on the other hand, make a conscious choice to practice homosexuality and to violate the law of God.


Verses in the gospels about Jesus associating with sinners and tax collectors: 8 (6 passages)
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=tax+collectors+sinners&searchtype=all&version1=31&bookset=4

Verses in the gospels about Jesus associating with Samaritans: 4 (1 passage) http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=tax+collectors+sinners&searchtype=all&version1=31&bookset=4

[Topaz]

It's true all sins are equal in God's eyes, but we can't continue to sin especially when we know it's wrong. Their 'problem' is that they are blind to the fact that they are wrong.


I so agree with you!! God bless. :hug:

[MrJim]

Thank God for organisations like Soulforce. Some day justice will prevail... even in fundamentalist denominations that are kicking and screaming against it now.

:sigh:

[arunma]

Verses in the gospels about Jesus associating with sinners and tax collectors: 8 (6 passages)
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=tax+collectors+sinners&searchtype=all&version1=31&bookset=4

Verses in the gospels about Jesus associating with Samaritans: 4 (1 passage) http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=tax+collectors+sinners&searchtype=all&version1=31&bookset=4

I don't think that Christians should refrain from associating with gays. But just as Jesus told the lame man "stop sinning, before something worse happens" after healing him, so too should Christians show a clear disapproval of the gay lifestyle.

[Lenora56]

I don't think that Christians should refrain from associating with gays. But just as Jesus told the lame man "stop sinning, before something worse happens" after healing him, so too should Christians show a clear disapproval of the gay lifestyle.


Yes, and we need to bathe it in prayer. Without Him we are nothing.

[Stinker]

Just imagine that you woke up in the morning with the psychology & emotions of the opposite sex!

Think you could deal with this condition for the rest of your life?

[Joykins]

Just imagine that you woke up in the morning with the psychology & emotions of the opposite sex!

Think you could deal with this condition for the rest of your life?

That's not gay; that's transgendered.

[MrJim]

Just imagine that you woke up in the morning with the psychology & emotions of the opposite sex!

Think you could deal with this condition for the rest of your life?

Not to sound sensational but I would have to think something like this is demonic. Yeah I know in our modern 21st century we are to be "beyond" this sort of thinking...but maybe satan just has us blinded to the truth.

[arunma]

Just imagine that you woke up in the morning with the psychology & emotions of the opposite sex!

Think you could deal with this condition for the rest of your life?

I'm not saying that gays don't have a hard time dealing with their problems. We all deal with sexual sin, whether homosexual or heterosexual. But again, this does not alter the sinful nature of homosexuality. Sometimes I have a difficult time forgiving people who have sinned against me. Does that mitigate the sinfulness of my anger against such people? No, it does not. By the same token, the fact that gays experience a very real struggle with their sin does not diminish the fact that homosexuality is sin.

[Joykins]

I'm not saying that gays don't have a hard time dealing with their problems. We all deal with sexual sin, whether homosexual or heterosexual. But again, this does not alter the sinful nature of homosexuality. Sometimes I have a difficult time forgiving people who have sinned against me. Does that mitigate the sinfulness of my anger against such people? No, it does not. By the same token, the fact that gays experience a very real struggle with their sin does not diminish the fact that homosexuality is sin.

There is a legitimate God-and-Bible-approved outlet for heterosexual sexuality that does not exist in much of the Christian world for homosexual sexuality. If everytime I made love to my husband it were also considered a sin, then the statement that "every sexual sin is the same" would be a more accurate comparison.

[arunma]

There is a legitimate God-and-Bible-approved outlet for heterosexual sexuality that does not exist in much of the Christian world for homosexual sexuality. If everytime I made love to my husband it were also considered a sin, then the statement that "every sexual sin is the same" would be a more accurate comparison.

But the Bible never portrays sex as a sin at all. God created sex, and Paul taught us that sex is actually a weapon that can be used to protect oneself from Satan. Sexual sin is the misuse of sex, as in homosexuality.

I would prefer to compare homosexual sex to other sins, such as wrath. We are all subject to the latter when we become angry with others, and there is no outlet for it (at least not that I am aware of). Would I therefore be right to excuse anger against others, because there is no sinless outlet for it? Certainly not! Temptation is a part of this earthly life. And as God told Cain, we must learn to master sin.

Because Christ Jesus makes us a new creation, we have even less of an excuse to sin than Cain did. Therefore, I do not think that it is right to justify homosexuality on these grounds.

[Andyman_1970]

But the Bible never portrays sex as a sin at all.

But Christianity does.

Christianity offers the doctrine original sin, beginning with Augustine (355-430), bishop of Hippo in Africa. He was the architect of an ideology that taught that the act of sex was the vehicle of original sin. (See D.J. Bailey, "Sexual Relations in Christian Thought," pg. 53-56; D. Feldman, Marital Relation, Birth Control and Abortion in Jewish Law, pg. 83-84) Augustine taught that the consequence of this sin is transmitted through the sexual act from one generation to the next. Because of this, a child, he said, was literally conceived in the "sin" of its parents. The connection between this idea and the doctrine of Immaculate Conception and Virgin Birth should be obvious.

Sin should be understood as defiance and rebellion to divine law. It is not a hereditary evil. It should be clear that if there did exist such a thing as "original sin," transferred from one generation to the next, this would undermine man's divine right to a free will. Man would no- longer be a free moral agent. Man, contrary to this, has to choose the good and reject the evil; overcome the evil with good. (For an analysis of this see S. Schechter, Aspects of Rabbinic Theology, New York: Schocken Books, 1961, pp. 242-263.)

[Argent]

Just imagine that you woke up in the morning with the psychology & emotions of the opposite sex!

Think you could deal with this condition for the rest of your life?

Do I think it would be easy? No, but Jesus said to take up our cross and bear it and that with God all things are possible.

Just because living righteously is hard, we still have to do it. That's why we are supposed to serve each other. We all need the help of our brothers and sisters.

[arunma]

But Christianity does.

I'd like to read Augustine's writing on the issue for myself before I say too much. But despite being a fan of his, even I don't think that he was always right. In any case, not all Christians have viewed sex as evil. I believe Martin Luther explained that sex was holy, being one of God's creations for the pleasure of man. Even my pastor has given a sermon refuting the notion that sex is inherently evil.

Yet it is true that some branches of Christianity have erred by viewing sex as evil. We ought to refute this notion.

[Andyman_1970]

We ought to refute this notion.

I agree since there is a whole book of the Bible about erotic love between a man and wife.