Another Pat Robertson thread

[arunma]

So, what do you all think about Pat Robertson's latest comments that Ariel Sharon's stroke is the divine retribution of the Lord?

This is what I think. For those of us who believe in Covenant Theology (which tells us that the Christian church is God's true Israel), what he has said is especially absurd, since the whole of Israel is owned by Gentiles whether the Israelis or the Palestinians possess it. But even otherwise, I don't think Robertson understands the politics and logistics of the situation. He seems to view the situation as black and white. He has even identified the good guys (Israelis) and bad guys (Palestinians, many of whom are fellow Christians, by the way).

Furthermore, I don't think he knows that when he makes extremist and fundamentalist comments such as this, he makes the rest of us look bad. It is now even harder to spread the Gospel to non-Christians, for we must rid ourselves of the reputation that Robertson has given us. Now what can we say when Gentiles ask us to explain the difference between Christian pastors, and Arab imams who say that the hurricane in New Orleans was God's judgment on the "perverted West?"

[MatthewPoole]

I could say alot of things about this, But at the risk of sounding like I'm full of hate.. (Of Which I have been accused of here on this board) I shall refrain from speaking my opinion of this situation.

MP
:preach:

[strengthinweakness]

So, what do you all think about Pat Robertson's latest comments that Ariel Sharon's stroke is the divine retribution of the Lord?

This is what I think. For those of us who believe in Covenant Theology (which tells us that the Christian church is God's true Israel), what he has said is especially absurd, since the whole of Israel is owned by Gentiles whether the Israelis or the Palestinians possess it. But even otherwise, I don't think Robertson understands the politics and logistics of the situation. He seems to view the situation as black and white. He has even identified the good guys (Israelis) and bad guys (Palestinians, many of whom are fellow Christians, by the way).

Furthermore, I don't think he knows that when he makes extremist and fundamentalist comments such as this, he makes the rest of us look bad. It is now even harder to spread the Gospel to non-Christians, for we must rid ourselves of the reputation that Robertson has given us. Now what can we say when Gentiles ask us to explain the difference between Christian pastors, and Arab imams who say that the hurricane in New Orleans was God's judgment on the "perverted West?"

Arunma, I agree with you, both in that Pat Robertson's remarks are absurd and sad, and in that I also believe that the Christian church (i.e. the body of all true Christian believers around the world) is the true Israel (Romans 9: 4-8). About the negative effects of Robertson's remarks on non-Christians, I agree that such things are frustrating to believers who are attempting to share the Gospel, but we must still remember that fallen man is by nature hostile to God. Non-Christians may use the misguided, mistaken remarks of a certain Christian leader as an excuse to continue to reject the truth of the Gospel, but it is just that-- an excuse. The ultimate, deepest reason that any non-Christian rejects the Gospel is the sin of the human heart which hides from, or suppresses, the truth that it already knows. (Romans 1:18-20). That is not to say that non-Christians cannot, or do not, have honest questions and perplexities about the Christian faith, and we should prepare ourselves, and pray for God's wisdom, to answer them in a loving, informed, and Scripturally accurate way. However, the fundamental reason that any sinner rejects the Gospel is that he/she is naturally hostile to, or at enmity with, God.

[HumbleMan]

I've never understood about the whole Isreal/end times thing. When I read that I've been grafted into the vine, and I'm about as far from middle eastern as you can get, I just get confused about the whole issue.

[Joykins]

There's an interesting passage in the gospels that speaks to this sort of thing.

Luke 13:1-5

[Andyman_1970]

Furthermore, I don't think he knows that when he makes extremist and fundamentalist comments such as this, he makes the rest of us look bad. It is now even harder to spread the Gospel to non-Christians, for we must rid ourselves of the reputation that Robertson has given us. Now what can we say when Gentiles ask us to explain the difference between Christian pastors, and Arab imams who say that the hurricane in New Orleans was God's judgment on the "perverted West?"

I’m not going to touch on the who is the real Israel topic, but I’m with you on this one arunma.

Not only does Pat make normal Christians look bad, he also makes Jesus look bad to those outside the faith. People like him are what most non-believers cite as why they think Christianity is lame.

[Flynmonkie]

Funny thing is, the other day I caught Miracles II on TV that Pat hosted. I literally cried hearing the stories of other believers. I hoped that others listen – because God can and does do these things. I don’t normally watch him otherwise (isn’t he part of the 700 club?)

Then the next thing I hear are comments like this one..

So I guess I chalk it up to making mistakes, I will make them, you will make them and I agree Pat definitely made one. I have no idea why or what would make him say something like this.

[MrJim]

Why is he still around? When something bad happens it's always God's doing against someones sin. Sure hope nothing bad happens to him (or will that mean something else for him?).

[JPPT1974]

On Jimmy Kemmel Live, the comedian says that "Doesn't Pat Robertson know that when he dies, he is going to you know where?" Not heaven at all.

[thepianist]

I have to say this.....the only thing that Pat Robertson has accomplished is making ALL Christians look like a bunch of nuts (again) - something we really don't need any help with.....the devil has a great time with anything he can get ahold of. I wish Mr. Robertson would just keep his mouth shut.....sometimes I think old age has gotten to him!

[CandleLightSky]

I remember seeing the 700 Club where he called for some guys assassination. I think he is a crazy old man who needs to be retired or sedated or something. I show little or no support to most of the christian TV programs as most time they are asking you for money or just so plain screwed up like the 700 club--it's generally good but it's just the same stuff over and over again to me. I do the the way of the master series though as it is really informative and interesting and I trust them to actually take care of their finances and be open about the whole thing. For the most part too, many of the christian television stations seem to be pretty corrupt, or at least have a history of it--especially TBN.

[arunma]

I remember seeing the 700 Club where he called for some guys assassination. I think he is a crazy old man who needs to be retired or sedated or something. I show little or no support to most of the christian TV programs as most time they are asking you for money or just so plain screwed up like the 700 club--it's generally good but it's just the same stuff over and over again to me. I do the the way of the master series though as it is really informative and interesting and I trust them to actually take care of their finances and be open about the whole thing. For the most part too, many of the christian television stations seem to be pretty corrupt, or at least have a history of it--especially TBN.

Hey, another TBN-hater! I'm glad we agree. TBN is definitely a threat to the Christian church, and it ought to be peacefully destroyed as soon as possible. The other day, I was very saddened when I saw Franklin Graham, an otherwise well-respected and godly missionary, appear on TBN and claim to have a friendship with Paul Crouch. TBN reminds me of the words of Christ in St. Matthew 23:15, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves."

Heck, the only program that I think is worthwhile on TBN is those animated Bible stories. And that program is only aired on Saturdays! Every other day of the week, all we see is one pastor or another asking for money, complaining about secularism, or telling us why all good Christians are required to vote Republican. I cannot remember the last time I saw any TBN pastor preach the Gospel of the Lord.

[ctay]

I'm just surprised anyone watches his show anymore.

[arunma]

Yes, I too am beginning to wonder: precisely who pays to keep him on the air? There can't be that many nutcases in America?

[93fleetwoodlowlow]

There can't be that many nutcases in America?

aha, you'd be suprised. (no i am not one but i work at a hospital, we see about 10 a day in this one little town).

[CandleLightSky]

Hey, another TBN-hater! I'm glad we agree. TBN is definitely a threat to the Christian church, and it ought to be peacefully destroyed as soon as possible. The other day, I was very saddened when I saw Franklin Graham, an otherwise well-respected and godly missionary, appear on TBN and claim to have a friendship with Paul Crouch. TBN reminds me of the words of Christ in St. Matthew 23:15, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves."

Heck, the only program that I think is worthwhile on TBN is those animated Bible stories. And that program is only aired on Saturdays! Every other day of the week, all we see is one pastor or another asking for money, complaining about secularism, or telling us why all good Christians are required to vote Republican. I cannot remember the last time I saw any TBN pastor preach the Gospel of the Lord.


I only watch the way of the master program on TBN...the rest of it is exactly like you said. EWTN has more substance than 99% of TBN's legion of loose preachers...the theology they promote is simply awful and without any ounce of scriptural revelance.

[daveleau]

Simply stated, I look at it from the standpoint of what it makes Christians look like. I'm not for watering down our message to suit the World, but this was putting one's foot in their mouth for the World to see. It puts us in a bad light. People like this have given so many Christian groups bad names. It is sad. How are we to judge if this is God's hand for someone's deeds? If he had a special revelational experience from God, that is one thing. If it wasn't, then he really messed up.

[Sword-In-Hand]

My pastor hates TBN so much that he truly believes the anti-Christ will be revealed on that station.

TBN is fluffy, bubblegum Christianity. According to these preachers no Christian suffers persecution and once you are saved it's rainbows and butterflies from then on. If that's the case I must be the exception. I don't like TBN. I do like The Way of the Master, but that's it.

As for Pat Roberts....might be best if I keep my mouth shut. I'm almost a firm believer that most Christians should be banned from speaking on television. Because it appears they hinder the Gospel more than they help it.

[arunma]

My pastor hates TBN so much that he truly believes the anti-Christ will be revealed on that station.

TBN is fluffy, bubblegum Christianity. According to these preachers no Christian suffers persecution and once you are saved it's rainbows and butterflies from then on. If that's the case I must be the exception. I don't like TBN. I do like The Way of the Master, but that's it.

Your pastor isn't alone. The pastors at my church are also quite opposed to TBN's prosperity gospel.

Simply stated, I look at it from the standpoint of what it makes Christians look like. I'm not for watering down our message to suit the World, but this was putting one's foot in their mouth for the World to see.

I agree. Actually, one of the things that I find appealing about evangelical Christianity is that it attempts to engage the world without being corrupted by it. Unfortunately, this is not what Pat Robertson has been doing.

[DeaconDean]

It would seem that we are forgetting one thing. Here in America, any idiot has the right to say whatever is on his or her mind. While we may not agree with them, they still have that right. I may not agree with Pat Robertson on some of his comments, but the man is doing God's work and we should learn to pick "the meat from the bone" so to speak. Besides, isn't he still doing God's work? Reaching the lost for Christ? I may not like his style, but he is doing God's work. Besides I know a great many pastors in churches that are in the same boat as Mr. Robertson (off the wall comments) and are they getting kicked for it?

[ctay]

I don't even watch anything on TBN. I'll watch EWTN sometimes.

[Diane_Windsor]

So, what do you all think about Pat Robertson's latest comments that Ariel Sharon's stroke is the divine retribution of the Lord?


I am not going to dignify Robertson's comments by making a response.

DIANE
:wave:

[novcncy]

... Arab imams who say that the hurricane in New Orleans was God's judgment on the "perverted West?"

Hmmmm....

It's quite interesting that the hurricane was smashing MS and LA as settlers were being evicted....proabably just coincidence, like those pesky locusts that Joel was talking about. Sometimes, that's just the way the cookie crumbles...

It's definitely true that one's view of covenant theology does have a fundamental impact on one's comprehension of how current events fit into the broader eschatological calendar.

I can't say Pat's wrong, but I can't say he's right, either. At any rate, I guess it never occurred to him that men in their seventies sometimes have strokes (and other health problems), although they have had nothing whatsoever to do with dividing God's land.

[arunma]

Hmmmm....

It's quite interesting that the hurricane was smashing MS and LA as settlers were being evicted....proabably just coincidence, like those pesky locusts that Joel was talking about. Sometimes, that's just the way the cookie crumbles...

It's definitely true that one's view of covenant theology does have a fundamental impact on one's comprehension of how current events fit into the broader eschatological calendar.

I can't say Pat's wrong, but I can't say he's right, either. At any rate, I guess it never occurred to him that men in their seventies sometimes have strokes (and other health problems), although they have had nothing whatsoever to do with dividing God's land.

Hello, it's been awhile. :wave:

Anyway, it's true that one cannot technically say that Pat Robertson is incorrect. On the other hand, one also cannot exclude the possiblity that, say, the relativistic precession of Mercury's orbit around the Sun is not God's divine retribution for bell bottoms. Unless a prophet comes to tell us the word of God, we can't say anything about God's will, except what is revealed through his Scriptures and through the Holy Spirit.

[novcncy]

Hello, it's been awhile. :wave:

Anyway, it's true that one cannot technically say that Pat Robertson is incorrect. On the other hand, one also cannot exclude the possiblity that, say, the relativistic precession of Mercury's orbit around the Sun is not God's divine retribution for bell bottoms. Unless a prophet comes to tell us the word of God, we can't say anything about God's will, except what is revealed through his Scriptures and through the Holy Spirit.

Thanks. You got a real laugh out of me with the bell bottom thing, although I'm not sure how it's retribution. But you're exactly right, and you underscored part of my thinking on the issue. It's too bad that Pat has made such a habit out of sticking his foot in his mouth, that some folks just sort of wait around for him to do it again. He's sort of like the opposite of Jesse Jackson. All I know is that I don't know what he really said, ie the context of the comment, and although I wouldn't wholeheartedly support him, I'm not eager to agree with half truths and insinuations, either. With today's media, it's just too easy to be sucked into one position or the other without actually knowing the whole story. The thing is, with Pat, I don't care enough to discover the whole story, I just find it best to more or less ignore him. The only time I hear what he says is when it's reported by media, usually from the internet. I actually thought that's how most people learned about the things he was saying, but if that's true, then it leaves me with another question...Who watches Pat Robertson, except his enemies? And if they're watching him, are they at least hearing the gospel? The whole situation is a can of worms...

[ZiSunka]

I am so sick of TV personalities who claim to speak for God about things that aren't even addressed in the Bible. Where does it say in the Bible that God would smite the leader of the Israelis in the 21st century? Show me where, Pat!

[KingZzub]

I am not convinced about Ariel's condition being the Lord - I think his widely publicised poor diet might have been the real issue.

However, I can't help but like Pat Robertson. I like his smile, his attitude, even his accent.

I think I am jealous of him. Seriously. I think I would like to live in a black and white world like he does, I don't like all the grey areas, and I would like to see the world in black and white.

I hope I make sense.
Cheers,
|ZZ|

[arunma]

I am so sick of TV personalities who claim to speak for God about things that aren't even addressed in the Bible. Where does it say in the Bible that God would smite the leader of the Israelis in the 21st century? Show me where, Pat!

It's in the same book that starts with "Pat Robertson, an Apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God..."

[mesue]

I am so sick of TV personalities who claim to speak for God about things that aren't even addressed in the Bible. Where does it say in the Bible that God would smite the leader of the Israelis in the 21st century? Show me where, Pat!
God doesn't give a time of when. It could be tomorrow. We don't know, we're given clues as to about when. As in the days of Noe, which seems like it could be about now, but people could be worse.
I'm not a big Pat Rorertson fan, I never have been. But he is scripturally correct.
God does not want His land, Israel, divided.

Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

People laughed and scorned Jesus. Just because people disagree with scripture, doesn't make them right either.

Matthew 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.

Be careful of whom you laugh to scorn. It could very well be a messenger from God.
This would make for a good Bible study ;)