Paul Harvey on prayer

[93fleetwoodlowlow]

i received the following in an email:

Paul Harvey says

I don't believe in Santa Clause, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December. I don't agree with Darwin, but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his theory of evolution.

Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30 second prayer before a football game.

So what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire book of Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and is asking Him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game.

But it's a Christian prayer, some will argue.

Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200 to 1. So what would you expect- somebody chanting Hare Krishna?

If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer.

If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.

If I went to a ping pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.

And I wouldnt be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit. When in Rome...

But what about the athiests? is the other argument.

What about them? Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer!

Unfortunately one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer before a football game is going to shake the world's foundations.

Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while the courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating; to pray before we sleep.

Our Bible tells us to pray without ceasing. Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying.

God, help us.
And if that offends you, well... just sue me.

The silent majority has been silent too long. It's time we let that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard that the vast majority don't care what they want. It is time the majority rules! It's time we tell them, you don't have to pray; you don't have to say the pledge of allegiance; you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right. But by golly, you are no longer going to take our rights away. We are fighting back... and WE WILL WIN!

God bless us one and all... especially those who denounce Him. God bless America, despite all her faults. She is still the greatest nation of all.

God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God.

May 2005 (now 2006) be the year the silent majority is heard and put God back as the foundation of our families and institutions.

Keep looking up.

i couldnt agree more.

[arunma]

Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200 to 1. So what would you expect- somebody chanting Hare Krishna?

It's interesting that Paul Harvey mentioned the name of the false god Krishna. Back where my family comes from (India), this Gentile god is honored and worshiped by the vast majority of the people. Although most Indian Hindus respect the right of our Indian brothers in Christ to worship freely, there is a growing fundamentalist movement, which seeks to destroy the church. Some states have actually made it a crime to convert to Christianity. In effect, these people force believers in Christ to worship false deities, and to bow down and serve them. I'm sure that our oppressed brethren would want nothing more than to have a completely secular government.

Why am I defending atheists? It is not that I agree with or even respect the false religion of atheism. But atheists do not concern me, because they do not worship false gods, and my experiences tell me that they will never force me to violate the first and second commandments of Moses. How simple it would be if Christianity were the only religion in the world. But there are many false religious systems in existence. Therefore, I would prefer that the entire world were secular, so that Christians who do not live in America and Europe wold be free to worship Christ without being threatened by false, Gentile religions.

I have other reasons to oppose a prayer before a football game. To me, it seems to minimize the Gospel of our Lord when we pray before a trivial event such as a football game. It is important to maintain a distinction between the religious and the secular, because God's name ought to be kept holy. Therefore, I would have to differ with Paul Harvey on this one. Indeed we are told by the Apostle Paul to pray without ceasing. But the world is subjected, for the moment, to the god of this age. Christians cannot pray aloud at work, because we are subjected to non-Christian employers. We cannot pray aloud in courtrooms are government offices, because the government is secular. And even if we could do so, we ought not to pray aloud in the presence of unbelievers, because Christ says, "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward." (St. Matthew 6:5). Therefore, there is no reason that we should pursue the right to pray at football games.

[MatthewPoole]

Uhmmmm... Ya'll need to see this:

www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/g/gholson.htm (http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/g/gholson.htm)

He didn't write it, someone else did.

Poor Ol' Harvey!

:doh: ^_^ :P :)

[arunma]

Uhmmmm... Ya'll need to see this:

www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/g/gholson.htm (http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/g/gholson.htm)

He didn't write it, someone else did.

Poor Ol' Harvey!

:doh: ^_^ :P :)

That would explain why I was so surprised to hear that this was spoken by Paul Harvey. But I think we can still debate the contents of this text, since at least one brother on the Baptist board agrees with it.

[newbeliever02072005]

.......I have other reasons to oppose a prayer before a football game. To me, it seems to minimize the Gospel of our Lord when we pray before a trivial event such as a football game. It is important to maintain a distinction between the religious and the secular, because God's name ought to be kept holy. Therefore, I would have to differ with Paul Harvey on this one. Indeed we are told by the Apostle Paul to pray without ceasing. But the world is subjected, for the moment, to the god of this age. Christians cannot pray aloud at work, because we are subjected to non-Christian employers. We cannot pray aloud in courtrooms are government offices, because the government is secular. And even if we could do so, we ought not to pray aloud in the presence of unbelievers, because Christ says, "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward." (St. Matthew 6:5). Therefore, there is no reason that we should pursue the right to pray at football games.


Sorry to interupt here...but I'm in a ***state of confusion***

This seems like a contradiction to the bible. You mention that "we are told by the apostle Paul to pray without ceasing." Think that is in Thes. Then you go on to quote Matthew 6:5 . Which is it? Are we to pray constantly or just amongst fellow christians? Is it wrong to pray for people that are not christians. Is it wrong to "testify" to non-believers how you present everything (including a football game) to God first? I thought that as long as your heart is whole heartedly with God that is your way of reverencing His name and keeping His name holy. When I pray I know in my heart who I am praying to and that He has my respect, my worship, my reverence all of it even when I am asking him to guide me in my daily events in the day. Dishes, laundry, playing with the kids, reading, conversations...etc. How is it wrong to include and want God before all of that?

:scratch: Can you help me understand better, please? ~~ Newbeliever

[93fleetwoodlowlow]

Uhmmmm... Ya'll need to see this:

www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/g/gholson.htm (http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/g/gholson.htm)

He didn't write it, someone else did.

Poor Ol' Harvey!

:doh: ^_^ :P :)

hmmm, didnt know that thanks. :thumbsup:

[93fleetwoodlowlow]

hu? we can't pray to God to protect the football players, to give praise to His Holy name because it is a football game? we can't pray for the people watching cause it is infront of non believers? i hardly think what you are saying is biblical bud. i mean yes he did say that hypocrites will do that but that is cause they are wanting attention. what we do before a football game is give attention to God. i could care less what the people in the stands think about me praying before a game, as long as God hears it and He knows and am praying to Him and worshipping His name that is all that matters. i think the reference to krishna was because this nation wasn't founded on that and the fact that krishna and all the false gods arent very big in this nation. i thank you though for you comments.

It's interesting that Paul Harvey mentioned the name of the false god Krishna. Back where my family comes from (India), this Gentile god is honored and worshiped by the vast majority of the people. Although most Indian Hindus respect the right of our Indian brothers in Christ to worship freely, there is a growing fundamentalist movement, which seeks to destroy the church. Some states have actually made it a crime to convert to Christianity. In effect, these people force believers in Christ to worship false deities, and to bow down and serve them. I'm sure that our oppressed brethren would want nothing more than to have a completely secular government.

Why am I defending atheists? It is not that I agree with or even respect the false religion of atheism. But atheists do not concern me, because they do not worship false gods, and my experiences tell me that they will never force me to violate the first and second commandments of Moses. How simple it would be if Christianity were the only religion in the world. But there are many false religious systems in existence. Therefore, I would prefer that the entire world were secular, so that Christians who do not live in America and Europe wold be free to worship Christ without being threatened by false, Gentile religions.

I have other reasons to oppose a prayer before a football game. To me, it seems to minimize the Gospel of our Lord when we pray before a trivial event such as a football game. It is important to maintain a distinction between the religious and the secular, because God's name ought to be kept holy. Therefore, I would have to differ with Paul Harvey on this one. Indeed we are told by the Apostle Paul to pray without ceasing. But the world is subjected, for the moment, to the god of this age. Christians cannot pray aloud at work, because we are subjected to non-Christian employers. We cannot pray aloud in courtrooms are government offices, because the government is secular. And even if we could do so, we ought not to pray aloud in the presence of unbelievers, because Christ says, "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward." (St. Matthew 6:5). Therefore, there is no reason that we should pursue the right to pray at football games.

[arunma]

Sorry to interupt here...but I'm in a ***state of confusion***

I can see how what I've said would cause confusion. Please allow me to carefully explain myself.

This seems like a contradiction to the bible. You mention that "we are told by the apostle Paul to pray without ceasing." Think that is in Thes. Then you go on to quote Matthew 6:5 . Which is it?

The words of God cannot contradict each other, so both Scriptures are true. We should pray without ceasing. But we do not have to pray aloud in order to pray at all times. In Jesus' day, the Jewish leaders prayed publically, so that everyone would see how pious they were. But Christians are not to pray for the purpose of being heard by others. Therefore, the very notion of public school prayer seems unbiblical to me. Christians already have the right to pray during football games, class, and any other activity. But we do not have the right to involve school employees in our prayers, or to have our prayers heard on public equipment such as loudspeakers. These rights don't seem necessary to me, since it is unbiblical for us to deliberately make our prayers heard to people who aren't praying with us.

Are we to pray constantly or just amongst fellow christians?

It is perfectly acceptable to pray with non-Christians (provided that we are praying to the Triune God of Israel, and not to false gods). But it is not permissible for us to make our prayers audible to people who don't wish to pray with us. Christ strictly condemned the act of putting one's piety on public display.

Is it wrong to pray for people that are not christians. Is it wrong to "testify" to non-believers how you present everything (including a football game) to God first?

Absolutely not! Both of the things you mentioned are things that all Christians should do. It is right for us to pray for non-Christians, and to give testimonies to non-Christians. But we must not attempt portray ourselves as holier than others.

I thought that as long as your heart is whole heartedly with God that is your way of reverencing His name and keeping His name holy.

I completely agree with that. God cares more about the position of the heart than anything else.

When I pray I know in my heart who I am praying to and that He has my respect, my worship, my reverence all of it even when I am asking him to guide me in my daily events in the day. Dishes, laundry, playing with the kids, reading, conversations...etc. How is it wrong to include and want God before all of that?

I think that what you are doing is an excellent witness to Christ. But there are many Christians who wish for their prayers to be heard in public areas, and I think that this is either a display of hypocrisy, or a misguided attempt to witness for Christ. I doubt that a 30 second prayer before a highschool football game will ever bring anyone to our Lord Jesus Christ.

hu? we can't pray to God to protect the football players, to give praise to His Holy name because it is a football game? we can't pray for the people watching cause it is infront of non believers?

I think it's a great idea to pray for the protection of all the football players, to praise God for the time he has given us,a nd to pray for the unbelievers who are watching the game. But we should not pray publically, for the entire audience to hear. Rather, Christians should pray together in a private area. Notice what you yourself have said:

what we do before a football game is give attention to God. i could care less what the people in the stands think about me praying before a game, as long as God hears it and He knows and am praying to Him and worshipping His name that is all that matters.





And is that not precisely what the Pharisees did? Their public prayers on street corners did give attention to God. But our Lord Jesus has given us guidelines for prayer.But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. (St. Matthew 6:6)




When we pray in front of unbelievers, we are giving our brothers an opportunity to display their piety in public, and that is hypocrisy. It is right for us to pray before a football game, and before doing anything else. But it is very wrong for us to pray in a public place, because this is why Christ condemned the Jewish priests.



i think the reference to krishna was because this nation wasn't founded on that and the fact that krishna and all the false gods arent very big in this nation. i thank you though for you comments.

And I thank you for yours. The reason I mentioned the false god Krishna is because where I'm from, his image is worshiped and honored by millions of people. And many of these people seek to conform the Christians to their own beliefs. I have much more to worry about from Hindus than atheists. I would take an atheist over a Hindu any day, and this is why I fully support separation of church and state.

[MrJim]

Another point that was sort of touched on:

If we "christians" are allowed to pray before a game, how long before the other "faiths" have to be allowed also. Don't know about the rest of you but we have a noisy Wiccan group down here--that'd be a real interesting invocation...it would be like "advertising" for your religion or something. Sorry, can't say America is just for Christians, there's that Constitution thing to deal with.

I whole-heartedly agree with Arunma.

[JPPT1974]

To me, it doesn't matter what denomination you belong too.
Just if you put your faith & trust in the Lord.
Believe Him as your personal Savior & accept Him as Savior & Lord.
Is all that matters IMO.

[newbeliever02072005]

I can see how what I've said would cause confusion. Please allow me to carefully explain myself.



The words of God cannot contradict each other, so both Scriptures are true. We should pray without ceasing. But we do not have to pray aloud in order to pray at all times. In Jesus' day, the Jewish leaders prayed publically, so that everyone would see how pious they were. But Christians are not to pray for the purpose of being heard by others. Therefore, the very notion of public school prayer seems unbiblical to me. Christians already have the right to pray during football games, class, and any other activity. But we do not have the right to involve school employees in our prayers, or to have our prayers heard on public equipment such as loudspeakers. These rights don't seem necessary to me, since it is unbiblical for us to deliberately make our prayers heard to people who aren't praying with us.



It is perfectly acceptable to pray with non-Christians (provided that we are praying to the Triune God of Israel, and not to false gods). But it is not permissible for us to make our prayers audible to people who don't wish to pray with us. Christ strictly condemned the act of putting one's piety on public display.



Absolutely not! Both of the things you mentioned are things that all Christians should do. It is right for us to pray for non-Christians, and to give testimonies to non-Christians. But we must not attempt portray ourselves as holier than others.



I completely agree with that. God cares more about the position of the heart than anything else.



I think that what you are doing is an excellent witness to Christ. But there are many Christians who wish for their prayers to be heard in public areas, and I think that this is either a display of hypocrisy, or a misguided attempt to witness for Christ. I doubt that a 30 second prayer before a highschool football game will ever bring anyone to our Lord Jesus Christ.


Ok, I think I am understanding this a bit better now. Sometimes I get way ahead of myself and don't just sit back and let things soak in properly. This explaination that you gave makes more sense to me and I tend to agree with this.

You mentioned that you don't think a 30 second prayer before a highschool game is going to bring anyone to the Lord. I wonder....do you think a 30 second moment of silence is more appropriate then? The christians can say their prayers to the Lord for His guidance and safety without offending anyone. Most importantly offending God.