WHY JESUS “GAVE HIS LIFE” FOR THE CHURCH

[edpobre]

Friends,

A lot of people (especially the Universalist Protestants) believe that because apostle Paul wrote that “while we were still sinners Christ died for us” (Rom. 5::cool: , everyone is covered by the blood of Christ. This belief is false!

Apostle Paul tells us that “Christ loved the church and gave his life for it” (Eph. 5:25). Paul further tells us that ”Christ purchased the church with his own blood” (Acts 20:2:cool: . Thus, the Bible teaches that ONLY the church of Christ (Acts 20:28 LAMSA; Rom. 16:16) benefits from the blood that Christ shed on the cross.

The question: Why did Jesus give his life for the church? Apostle Paul answers: ”that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish” (Eph. 5:26-27).

How is one sanctified and cleansed with the “washing of water” by the word? Apostle Paul explains:

”In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins... In him you also trusted, AFTER you HEARD the word of TRUTH, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having BELIEVED, you were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our INHERITANCE until the REDEMPTION of the PURCHASED possession...” (Eph. 1:7, 13-14).

These verses tells us that FAITH or TRUST comes AFTER hearing the TRUTH (the gospel of salvation). Then those who believe are SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise.

How is one SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise? Before Jesus ascended to heaven, he commanded his disciples to PREACH the gospel. Jesus said: ”he who believes and is baptized will be saved” (Mark 16:15-16). Apostle Peter reiterated this command when he told his listeners: ”Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; AND you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:3:cool: .

These verses tell us that one is SEALED with the Holy Spirit THROUGH baptism INTO the church which Christ purchased with his own blood, in whom there is redemption THROUGH Christ’s blood, the forgiveness (remission) of sins.

Apostle Paul sums it all up in Rom. 3:24 where he wrote: ”being justified as a gift by His grace THROUGH the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.” And in Rom. 5:9 apostle Paul wrote: ”Much more then, having been justified by his blood, we shall be SAVED from the wrath of God through him.”

Are we saved by “faith alone?” These verses show that “faith alone” is only up to the point where one has heard and believed the true gospel of salvation from a preacher SENT by God. RECEIVING the gift of the Holy Spirit of promise and being SEALED with it is an important ingredient in the attainment of salvation because without it, there is NO redemption and remission of sins.

Ed

[PrinceJeff]

A lot of people (especially the Universalist Protestants) believe that because apostle Paul wrote that “while we were still sinners Christ died for us” (Rom. 5: , everyone is covered by the blood of Christ. This belief is false!

Yep. You have to accept it in your heart.

Apostle Paul tells us that “Christ loved the church and gave his life for it” (Eph. 5:25). Paul further tells us that ”Christ purchased the church with his own blood” (Acts 20:2 . Thus, the Bible teaches that ONLY the church of Christ (Acts 20:28 LAMSA; Rom. 16:16) benefits from the blood that Christ shed on the cross.

The Church is anyone who has accepted it into his/her heart that Christ died for their sin so they may have eternal life. It is not just Catholics or Baptists or whoever, it is anyone who lets Jesus into their heart and life and lives it for Him.

The question: Why did Jesus give his life for the church? Apostle Paul answers: ”that he might and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish” (Eph. 5:26-27).[/i]

Very good, Ed. :)

How is one sanctified and cleansed with the “washing of water” by the word? Apostle Paul explains:

”In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins... In him you also trusted, AFTER you HEARD the word of TRUTH, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having BELIEVED, you were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our INHERITANCE until the REDEMPTION of the PURCHASED possession...” (Eph. 1:7, 13-14).

These verses tells us that FAITH or TRUST comes AFTER hearing the TRUTH (the gospel of salvation). Then those who believe are SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise.

I agree with this too. I only came to Christ after hearing the truth of the Gospel, and now I am sealed with Him forever.

How is one SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise? Before Jesus ascended to heaven, he commanded his disciples to PREACH the gospel. Jesus said: ”he who believes and is baptized will be saved” (Mark 16:15-16). Apostle Peter reiterated this command when he told his listeners: ”Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; AND you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:3 .

These verses tell us that one is SEALED with the Holy Spirit THROUGH baptism INTO the church which Christ purchased with his own blood, in whom there is redemption THROUGH Christ’s blood, the forgiveness (remission) of sins.

It also says "but he that believeth not shall be damned." Agreed again, Ed.

Apostle Paul sums it all up in Rom. 3:24 where he wrote: ”being justified as a gift by His grace THROUGH the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.” And in Rom. 5:9 apostle Paul wrote: ”Much more then, having been justified by his blood, we shall be SAVED from the wrath of God through him.”

Are we saved by “faith alone?” These verses show that “faith alone” is only up to the point where one has heard and believed the true gospel of salvation from a preacher SENT by God. RECEIVING the gift of the Holy Spirit of promise and being SEALED with it is an important ingredient in the attainment of salvation because without it, there is NO redemption and remission of sins.

I have to say this does line up quite well with scripture, Ed.


Jeff

[Pastor Carl]

Ed,

All in all, very good. I have only one question before I comment further. I noticed you used bold letters when referring to baptized or baptism. In baptism as you refer to it here, are you speaking of a spiritual baptism or are you saying that water baptism is necessary for salvation?

[Michael]

While we are on the subject of "spiritual" baptism, could you explain to me, at Jesus' baptism, how the Holy Spirit is said to have descended upon Jesus if Jesus himself is it's source? Why does God say after his baptism "this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased"?

How does the Holy Spirit descend upon it's own source, and why would God refer to Jesus as his "son"? To whom does Jesus pray to the night before his death, and who answers him and sends him an angel in his hour of need? Why would God himself fear anything by the way?

[ZoneChaos]

I t wasn't God (the Godhead) talking there.. it was God(The Father) talking about God (the Son)... the God (The Father) sent God (The Holy Spirit) to God (The Son).

on a limited understanding it is God sending God to God... but inan expanded understanding.. it is the Father sending the Spirit to the Son.

[edpobre]

Pastor Carl,

You wrote: All in all, very good. I have only one question before I comment further. I noticed you used bold letters when referring to baptized or baptism. In baptism as you refer to it here, are you speaking of a spiritual baptism or are you saying that water baptism is necessary for salvation?

I use bold letters when referring to baptized or baptism to emphasize its importance in God's Plan of Salvation.

In Matthew 28:19, Jesus commands: "...Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit."

In Mark 16:15-16, Jesus commands: "...Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes AND is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

These verses show the relevance of baptism to salvation. One who believes MUST be baptized in order to be saved. One who believes BUT is NOT baptized for whatever reason, will NOT be saved. One who DOES NOT believe CANNOT be baptized and is therefore condemned.

Baptism must be done in the name of the Father who forgives sins, and of the son whose blood washes sins, and of the Holy Spirit who SEALS the believer to guarantee the inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession which is the church (Eph. 1:13-14). This does NOT mean that all three are God.

The Bible teaches that the apostles baptized by immersion in a body of water. John the Baptist baptized in the river Jordan (Matt. 3:6). Apostle Phillip baptized the eunuch in a body of water (Acts 8:3:cool: .

In Acts 2:38, apostle Peter exhorted the people to repent and be baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit and being SEALED by it is what is called spiritual baptism.

Water baptism must be done properly in order to receive the Holy Spirit and be SEALED. The Bible teaches that water baptism in the name of Jesus only is NOT enough for one to receive the Holy Spirit and be SEALED. The baptizing minister must also lay his hand on the believer and immerse the believer in water in the name of the Father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:16-17).

We can gather from the foregoing that one is ADDED to the church that Christ purchased with his own blood (Acts 20:2:cool: THROUGH water baptism, properly done with laying of hand in the name of the Father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit. Proper water baptism automaticlly leads to what is called "spiritual baptism" or the SEALING with the Holy Spirit of promise (Eph. 1:13-14).

Ed

[Josephus]

Josephus wields his sword:

-Theif on a cross.
-Jesus never baptised.

[edpobre]

Josephus,

Josephus wields his sword:

-Theif on a cross.
-Jesus never baptised.

A man jaywalks and for some reason the police officer who sees him does not issue him a ticket. Does that make jaywalking legal? Suppose another man (who is aware of the earlier incident) jaywalks and a rookie police officer gives him a ticket. Can that man claim the earlier incident as a defense?

My knowledge of the law is limited but I know for a fact that until a law is amended by another law, that law remains in force regardless of whether it is implemented fully or not.

Jesus commanded his apostles to preach the gospel. He said, "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved." (Mark 16:15-16) He granted exemption to the thief on the cross simply because the thief could not get down from the cross to be baptized even if he wanted to. And Jesus knew that. That was the first time that the thief saw Jesus or heard about him. Naturally, Jesus did the only thing he could do under the circumstances without gioing beyond the authority God gave him (Matt. 28:1:cool: - grant the thief an exemtion to the baptism requirement.

After Jesus died, the apostles preached the gospel and baptized those who believed (Acts 2:41, 47; Acts 8:36-38; Acts 16:33) as Jesus commanded them (Mark 16:15-16).

Just as the serpent deceived Eve into believing a lie, the incident at the cross is the serpent's way of deceiving people into believing the false doctrine that baptism and membership in the church are irrelevant to salvation.

Ed

[PrinceJeff]

You are right Ed in saying that Baptism and membership in "the Church" are true to salvation. In another thread on another forum you said membership in "a" church is relevant. Which is it Ed? Make up your mind.

[lucypevensie]

"He granted exemption to the thief on the cross simply because the thief could not get down from the cross to be baptized even if he wanted to."

because it was physically impossible to quick get a baptism in, Jesus gave the man an exception? Why didn't Jesus mention that He was making an exception?

And what about people in modern day circumstances in the same ordeal as the theif? Instead of hanging on a cross next to Jesus they are lying in a hospital about to die. In their dying breath they ask Jesus to remember them in His Kingdom. Will Jesus grant them the same exception? Why or why not?

[Josephus]

touché Arabian Sebu

[LouisBooth]

"He granted exemption to the thief on the cross simply because the thief could not get down from the cross to be baptized even if he wanted to. And Jesus knew that. "

:lol: ...sorry..didn't mean to laugh so hard ;) Ed, you're saying That Jesus loves him more huh ...and made an exception just for him? Noooo...It proves even more so that you don't have to be baptized to be saved.

"Just as the serpent deceived Eve into believing a lie, the incident at the cross is the serpent's way of deceiving people into believing the false doctrine that baptism and membership in the church are irrelevant to salvation."

Hmm..along with the rest of the bible right ed, ya know..the hundreds of verses that say it only takes faith or believe..riiiigggghhhhtttt ;)

[edpobre]

Prince Jeff,

You are right Ed in saying that Baptism and membership in "the Church" are true to salvation. In another thread on another forum you said membership in "a" church is relevant. Which is it Ed? Make up your mind.

Did I say that? If I did, it was a mistake. What I mean is baptism and membership in the true church is relevant to salvation. Not just any church but the true church of Christ. That church is the "Iglesia Ni Cristo" where I belong.

Ed

[edpobre]

lucypevensie,

because it was physically impossible to quick get a baptism in, Jesus gave the man an exception? Why didn't Jesus mention that He was making an exception?

If you were Jesus what would you have done? Jesus knew that the thief had not heard the gospel before that time. Jesus read the thief's heart and knew that the thief was sincere and truly meant what he said. Which of the powers and authority that God gave him could he have used at that time aside from granting the thief an exception?

And what about people in modern day circumstances in the same ordeal as the theif? Instead of hanging on a cross next to Jesus they are lying in a hospital about to die. In their dying breath they ask Jesus to remember them in His Kingdom. Will Jesus grant them the same exception? Why or why not?

Do you know what's in Jesus' mind Lucy? I don't, especially now that he is in heaven. Thus, I cannot answer for Christ. One thing I'm sure of though is that his statement that "he who believes and is baptized will be saved" has not been rescinded nor amended.

Moreover, it is very unlikely that anyone who has not heard the gospel nor Jesus would suddenly turn to Jesus when he's about to die. In all likelihood, this person might have rejected the messengers sent by God to preach to him the gospel when he was still strong. He could have been one of those people who did not believe in the relevance to salvation of baptism or membership in the church.

Even if Jesus were here today, I don't believe he would grant exemption to people whose heart are hardened and whose eyes are blind to the truth.

Ed

[edpobre]

LouisBooth,

...sorry..didn't mean to laugh so hard Ed, you're saying That Jesus loves him more huh ...and made an exception just for him? Noooo...It proves even more so that you don't have to be baptized to be saved.

Did I say Jesus loves him more and made an exception just for him? I don't think I said that Louis. If it proves that you don't have to be baptized to be saved, please tell us why apostle Peter preached baptism for the remission of sins and receiving of the gift of the Holy Spirit?

"Just as the serpent deceived Eve into believing a lie, the incident at the cross is the serpent's way of deceiving people into believing the false doctrine that baptism and membership in the church are irrelevant to salvation."

Hmm..along with the rest of the bible right ed, ya know..the hundreds of verses that say it only takes faith or believe..riiiigggghhhhtttt

Yeah you're right Louis. The serpent has indeed deceived you into believing all the lies that have been taught to you.

Ed

[LouisBooth]

"If it proves that you don't have to be baptized to be saved, please tell us why apostle Peter preached baptism for the remission of sins and receiving of the gift of the Holy Spirit? "

Umm..the evidence speaks for its self ed, the guy wasn't baptised hence you don't have to be baptised to be saved. That is biblically supported..see romans chapter 3 and 4. Where did peter preach that Ed, show me the verses and I'll probably have to show you how they are either 1. out of context according to you or 2. misinterpreted...but I'm hoping its 3...you'll realize it only takes faith ;)

"Yeah you're right Louis. The serpent has indeed deceived you into believing all the lies that have been taught to you."

now you're saying the bible is a book of lies? Wow ed, off the deep end you are :)

[PrinceJeff]

What I mean is baptism and membership in the true church is relevant to salvation. Not just any church but the true church of Christ. That church is the "Iglesia Ni Cristo" where I belong.

No, Ed the "Iglesia Ni Cristo" is a denomination with the same name as the true Church of Christ, which includes Baptists like me and others of different denominations. I say read John 3:16 again. It states CLEARLY that "whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." This means people outside your denomination. I know I am sealed for eternity to be with Christ in Heaven. Denomination is not an issue when we are before Almighty God and you have to realize that. You can't exclude other denominations Ed you are treading dangerous ground doing so.

[edpobre]

LouisBooth,

I wrote: "If it proves that you don't have to be baptized to be saved, please tell us why apostle Peter preached baptism for the remission of sins and receiving of the gift of the Holy Spirit? "

Your reply: Umm..the evidence speaks for its self ed, the guy wasn't baptised hence you don't have to be baptised to be saved. That is biblically supported..see romans chapter 3 and 4. Where did peter preach that Ed, show me the verses and I'll probably have to show you how they are either 1. out of context according to you or 2. misinterpreted...but I'm hoping its 3...you'll realize it only takes faith

For the sake of readers who are seeking the truth and may not have encountered these verses before, here are the verses that show the apostles baptizing those who listened and believed what the apostles preached: Acts 2:38-41, 47; Acts 8:35-38; Acts 16:15, 30-34.

I wrote: "Yeah you're right Louis. The serpent has indeed deceived you into believing all the lies that have been taught to you."

You wrote:now you're saying the bible is a book of lies? Wow ed, off the deep end you are

Jesus says: "...he who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mark 16:16). You have been deceived into believing the LIE that this command has been revoked because Jesus saved the thief on the cross without baptism into the church.

As the verses I quoted above show, the apostles who had a more intimate knowledge of how Jesus thinks and acts, DID NOT think that this command had been revoked. They preached and baptized those who listened and gladly received (baptized) their word.

Ed

[edpobre]

Prince Jeff,

You wrote: No, Ed the "Iglesia Ni Cristo" is a denomination with the same name as the true Church of Christ, which includes Baptists like me and others of different denominations.

I used to be a Baptist like you Prince Jeff and I know what denomination means. Have you studied what the "Iglesia Ni Cristo" teaches and have you compared this with your church? If you haven't, then you don't know what you are talking about. That's why we invite people to study the word of God with us.

The "Iglesia Ni Cristo" is NOT a denomination. It is THE true church of Christ in these last days. THE true church of Christ in the first century was called the Greek equivalent of "churches of Christ" (Rom. 16:16). There were no Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Episcopalians, Pentecostals, Lutherans, Calvinits, Arminians, Universalists, Oneness, Unification Churches and Mormons or Latter Day Saints in those times.

You wrote: [quotq]I say read John 3:16 again. It states CLEARLY that "whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."[/quote]

These people who TRULY believe in Jesus and will have everlasting life are found ONLY in the "Iglesia Ni Cristo" the TRUE church of Christ in these last days. That's why we invite everyone who desires to be saved to "enter" (John 10:9) or become "members individually" of the church or body of Christ (Rom. 12:4-5).

You wrote: This means people outside your denomination. I know I am sealed for eternity to be with Christ in Heaven. Denomination is not an issue when we are before Almighty God and you have to realize that. You can't exclude other denominations Ed you are treading dangerous ground doing so.

Where did you get the idea that John 3:16 excludes certain groups of people? Jesus clearly says "whoever" believes... meaning ANYONE (not any group).

God ABHORS denominationalism, schism or division Prince Jeff. The fact that your church is a denomination of something is proof that YOUR CHURCH is NOT of God.

What do you mean I'm treading dangerous grounds by exluding other denominations?

The Bible clearly says that Christ built HIS church. Christ did NOT build MANY churches. The church is Christ's body and he is the HEAD (Col. 1:1:cool: . It is therefore UNTHINKABLE for Christ to have MANY bodies with DIFFERENT names and DIFFERENT faiths.

It is also UNTHINKABLE for Christ to have a BODY or church who DOES NOT believe what its HEAD says. The HEAD says he is a MAN (John 8:40). The BODY says "You are God! Thomas says so.) The HEAD says the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). The BODY says "You are ALSO God IN ADDITION to the FATHER! The Catholic Council of Nicea declared it in 325 AD.

Ed

[lucypevensie]

"Jesus knew that the thief had not heard the gospel before that time."

And how do you know this?

"Do you know what's in Jesus' mind Lucy?"

I know that what He wants us to know has been written down for us in His Word, the Bible. He did not hold back any important information that would be relevant for my salvation.


"In all likelihood, this person might have rejected the messengers sent by God to preach to him the gospel when he was still strong."

That's beside the point. I'm talking about what's in the person's heart NOW. The person has just decided to turn his life around and follow Jesus. Do you think Jesus' mercy and grace would not shine through?

[LouisBooth]

"For the sake of readers who are seeking the truth and may not have encountered these verses before, here are the verses that show the apostles baptizing those who listened and believed what the apostles preached: Acts 2:38-41, 47; Acts 8:35-38; Acts 16:15, 30-34."

Ed, that doesn't matter!! Yes, you should be baptised after you believe because that shows publically that you are a believer, but YOU DONT' HAVE TO BE TO BE SAVED.

"Jesus says: "...he who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mark 16:16). "

ed, let me stress that to you again. 1. That verse IS NOT contained in most early manuscripts so baseing theology on it is not a good idea. 2. the man on the cross was not baptised and was saved. 3. I can find numerious verses (just try romans chapters 3 and 4 to start) that say all it takes is faith to be saved. 4. Baptism is a "work" and in galatians Paul clearly tells us that works are not a way to be saved 5. In John Jesus tells us to be baptised by the SPRIT not by water :)

"They preached and baptized those who listened and gladly received (baptized) their word."

:lol: you're adding to the bible again ed, they believed, that's what it says...THEN they were baptised because that's a naturally what happens after you are saved, it is not a saved grace. it should read "They preached and those who listened and gladed recieved their word (belief) where saved. They were then baptised to show they were already saved."

[PrinceJeff]

I used to be a Baptist like you Prince Jeff and I know what denomination means. Have you studied what the "Iglesia Ni Cristo" teaches and have you compared this with your church? If you haven't, then you don't know what you are talking about. That's why we invite people to study the word of God with us.

I don't need to study what any church teaches when it claims to be the only true church of Christ, because it goes directly against the word of God to do so. I study my Bible and it says many times that ANYONE who believes in the Lord as his/her savior and confesses with their mouth that they will be saved. The NT speaks of the church as the Body of Christ, including ALL of the redeemed of ALL the ages, believers from EVERY tribe, tongue, people, and nation. This means all people Ed. Read Romans 1:16 (The Apostle Paul tells us that the gospel (good news) is the power of God to salvation to everyone who believes), 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (The good news of Christ concerns His death, burial, and resurrection. This is the gospel the Apostles preached. You'll notice that Paul makes no mention of the church in this declaration. If the church is necessary for salvation, Paul certainly would have mentioned it here.), Romans 5:8-9 (The INC teaches that Jesus shed His blood for the church only (people collectively in the INC organization) and that it is through the church organization that one comes to Christ. This is a false gospel. The Bible teaches that Christ shed His blood for sinners – individuals – these individuals, coming to Him alone for salvation, then make up His church – the body of Christ.), Mark 1:15 (In order to receive forgiveness of sin we must repent (change our mind) and believe that Christ died for our sin, was buried and rose again. Change your mind that only Christ can save you, and not the INC, good works, or anything else.), Romans 10:9-10 (With a repentant and believing heart, you can call upon the Lord Jesus and be saved!), Galatians 4:6 (When you believe in and confess Christ He comes to indwell you by His Spirit, and you are adopted into His family. (Romans 8:15), 1 Corinthians 12:27 (As previously stated, as members of Christ's family, we are the body of Christ – the church.), and John 3:36 (If you refuse to obey the gospel of Christ, your sins cannot be cleansed and you remain under the wrath of God).

The "Iglesia Ni Cristo" is NOT a denomination. It is THE true church of Christ in these last days. THE true church of Christ in the first century was called the Greek equivalent of "churches of Christ" (Rom. 16:16).

There is a key phrase here: "churches of Christ". All believers Eddo. Any church started by anyone besides God Himself is in deep error claiming to be the only true church. Read your Bible again.

These people who TRULY believe in Jesus and will have everlasting life are found ONLY in the "Iglesia Ni Cristo" the TRUE church of Christ in these last days. That's why we invite everyone who desires to be saved to "enter" (John 10:9) or become "members individually" of the church or body of Christ (Rom. 12:4-5).

Looks to me after studying John 10:9 that to be saved you enter through Jesus Christ, not the INC. Going through Romans 12:4-5 I see, "For as we have many members in one body, and all mebers have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another." We don't all have the same office which means we are not all in the same group, and 12:5 again refers to ALL believers not just one group, such as the INC says.

Where did you get the idea that John 3:16 excludes certain groups of people? Jesus clearly says "whoever" believes... meaning ANYONE (not any group).

I said it myself Ed that it means ANYONE. Read closer and you would have seen that. When I said, "outside your denomination" I was saying that ANYONE who believes, not just members of the INC. Now you are saying it means ANYONE, which contradicts everything you have ever said claiming the INC to be the only true church. If you believe the Bible literally, you would not say John 3:16 means ANYONE who believes is saved, then claim the INC is the only true church. Swing and a miss, my brother.

God ABHORS denominationalism, schism or division Prince Jeff. The fact that your church is a denomination of something is proof that YOUR CHURCH is NOT of God.

I should say the same of your church Ed. But you refuse to believe the INC is a denomination started by men.

What do you mean I'm treading dangerous grounds by excluding other denominations?

Lookie here! He indirectly admits his church IS a denomination. Ed your attitude is the same as the Pharisees, who claimed only they were right and everyone else was wrong. Look where that got them.

The Bible clearly says that Christ built HIS church. Christ did NOT build MANY churches. The church is Christ's body and he is the HEAD [Col. 1:18]. It is therefore UNTHINKABLE for Christ to have MANY bodies with DIFFERENT names and DIFFERENT faiths.

Yes he built HIS church. He did not build the INC. Yes the church is the body and he is the head, but we are all different parts of ONE BODY as Bible-believing Christians. And I never said there was many bodies with different names and different faiths.

It is also UNTHINKABLE for Christ to have a BODY or church who DOES NOT believe what its HEAD says. The HEAD says he is a MAN (John 8:40). The BODY says "You are God! Thomas says so.) The HEAD says the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). The BODY says "You are ALSO God IN ADDITION to the FATHER! The Catholic Council of Nicea declared it in 325 AD.

"Christ is the eternal Son of God. In His incarnation as Jesus Christ He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. Jesus perfectly revealed and did the will of God, taking upon Himself human nature with its demands and necessities and identifying Himself completely with mankind yet without sin. He honored the divine law by His personal obedience, and in His substitutionary death on the cross He made provision for the redemption of men from sin. He was raised from the dead with a glorified body and appeared to His disciples as the person who was with them before His crucifixion. He ascended into heaven and is now exalted at the right hand of God where He is the One Mediator, fully God, fully man, in whose Person is effected the reconciliation between God and man. He will return in power and glory to judge the world and to consummate His redemptive mission. He now dwells in all believers as the living and ever present Lord." (credit to the So. Baptist faith and message)

I can't say it better myself.

Jeff

[ZoneChaos]

Ed.. no one is buyoing what you are peddling. It is clear you are not hear to search for the truth. I have deleted one of your topics this week which was a copy of one you posted a while back.

Will you please finish youe piece and move on.

ZC

[PrinceJeff]

Ed was peddling a cult, plain and simple. To know more about the decpetions and lies of the INC, go to www.examineiglesianicristo.com (http://www.examineiglesianicristo.com) .

[ZoneChaos]

Thankyou for this link PrinceJeff...