Baptists why don't you obey the Seventh Day Sabbath?

[reg]

ok im going to put this in each denominatiol forum and ill put one in another forum later. sooooooooooooooooooooooooo why? i would like for baptists to post and tell me why. i would prefer that u write in a nut shell why u dont then give me prooth/tell me why u beleve this like :
God changed the Sabbath to Sunday. blah blah blah
i would like for SDA and other Sabbatarians to come in here also

[MatthewPoole]

Because the Baptist's chose to REJECT the jewish custom of Saturday Worship. Which was a "Custom". and our calander is based upon the Roman Calander. and that's why our Seventh Day is Sunday.

-MP

This site gives more info on the early days of the Baptist's...:

www.baptisthistory.org (http://www.baptisthistory.org)

[reg]

Because the Baptist's chose to REJECT the jewish custom of Saturday Worship. Which was a "Custom". and our calander is based upon the Roman Calander. and that's why our Seventh Day is Sunday.

-MP

This site gives more info on the early days of the Baptist's...:

www.baptisthistory.org (http://www.baptisthistory.org/)
so you beleive that sabbath keeping wasnt a command and that the calenders changed so much that its on sunday?
well 1. read the ten COMMANDMENTS and 2. www.sabbathtruth.com/documentations/us_naval_observatory.asp (http://www.sabbathtruth.com/documentations/us_naval_observatory.asp)

[MatthewPoole]

so you beleive that sabbath keeping wasnt a command and that the calenders changed so much that its on sunday?
well 1. read the ten COMMANDMENTS and 2. www.sabbathtruth.com/documentations/us_naval_observatory.asp (http://www.sabbathtruth.com/documentations/us_naval_observatory.asp)

1. I ain't interested in arguing Baptist Doctrine or practice.

2. Why are you wanting to start a debate in a non-debate section?


MP
:preach:

[DeaconDean]

We chose Sunday to worship as a way to separate ourselves from other demoninations and practices. "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate," (2 Cor. 6:17) And the fact that we chose to worship on the day Christ arose from the grave. That's why.

Any more questions?

[£amb]

1. I ain't interested in arguing Baptist Doctrine or practice.

2. Why are you wanting to start a debate in a non-debate section?


MP
:preach:

No need to worry MatthewPoole...;)

I'll just paste the rule on here about debating on our doctrines. It's okay that a question is asked, but once it's answered, it cannot be debated.


Non-Baptist/Anabaptist members (eg. Catholic,Charasmatic, Weselyan, Lutheran, etc... members) can only post fellowship posts here or posts to ask a question regarding Baptist/Anabaptist doctrine. Once the question is answered, there shall be no debate over the answer in this forum by the Non-Baptist/Anabaptist members. Any debate posts by Non-Baptist/Anabaptist members will be deleted or moved to the appropriate forum. In other words, only Baptist/Anabaptist members can debate here.



Worshipping God is something I do everyday. It does not make us any less worthy of God if we worship with other believers on a Sunday.

[reg]

No need to worry MatthewPoole...;)

I'll just paste the rule on here about debating on our doctrines. It's okay that a question is asked, but once it's answered, it cannot be debated.



Worshipping God is something I do everyday. It does not make us any less worthy of God if we worship with other believers on a Sunday.

ok sory sooooooooo DEAR MOD IF YOU ARE READING THIS PLEASE DONT DELETE IT PLEASE JUST MOVE IT WHRE IT IS OK TO BE IN!

[reg]

We chose Sunday to worship as a way to separate ourselves from other demoninations and practices. "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate," (2 Cor. 6:17) And the fact that we chose to worship on the day Christ arose from the grave. That's why.

Any more questions?
y on the day Christ arose from the grave? Jesus didnt command sunday worship in honnor of the resurrection

[£amb]

ok sory sooooooooo DEAR MOD IF YOU ARE READING THIS PLEASE DONT DELETE IT PLEASE JUST MOVE IT WHRE IT IS OK TO BE IN!

I'm old, but not quite blind yet..:P

[£amb]

May I ask what you think of people who worship God on Sunday?

Also wanted to add: If Christians prefer to assemble on the seventh day (Saturday) they do no wrong, but the danger is in the legalism and judgmentalism of other Christians.

[Willo]

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, - Col 2:16

[DeaconDean]

I work 3rd shift on Saterday nights and can't get to church on Sunday's, does that make me less of a Christian than anyone else? I can set aside one day a week to be my Sabbath, whether it be Monday or Friday or whenever. The important thing is to keep that day holy, would you not agree? My Bible tells me to Render unto Caesar the thing which are Caesar's, and the things which are God's, unto God. Unfortunately my Caesar says I have to work Sunday's. By the way, not all demoninations practice Saterday's as the Sabbath, are they all wrong? That is just like coming in here, Anabaptist/Baptist Forum, and saying that The Holy Roman Catholic Church is the only true church. As stated before, we Baptists chose Sunday, the day the Lord arose from the grave, as our day of Sabbath as a way to separate ourselves from others.

[the truth]

I think this sums it up pretty good it was written by By Pastor James L. Melton God bless. :)

Sabbath Keeping

This is a heresy taught by the Seventh Day Adventists and the followers of Armstrongism. The Jews under the law of Moses were commanded to keep the sabbath day (Saturday) as a SIGN of their relationship to God (Exo. 20:8-11; Ezk. 20:12, 20; Neh. 9:14). Since Jesus "finished" the Old Testament law, the sabbath is no longer in effect as a sign between God and His people. Colossians 2:16-17 says, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

The "first day of the week" is the appointed day of worship for New Testament Christians. The disciples and New Testament Christians met and worshiped on the first day of the week (Acts 20:6-7; I Cor. 16:2). Jesus rose and completed our redemption on the first day of the week (Mark 16:9). Jesus met with His disciples after His resurrection - more than once - on the first day of the week (Mark 16:9-12; Mat 28:8-10; Luke 24:36). Jesus blessed His disciples and gave them the Holy Spirit on the first day of the week (John 20:19). The Gospel of a risen Saviour was first preached on the first day of the week (Luke 24:34). The Holy Spirit descended on the first day of the week (Acts 2 - We know Pentecost was on a Sunday because it was always on the 50th day after Passover - Lev. 23:15-16

Christians do not keep the sabbath. We keep the first day of the week.

[thepianist]

ok im going to put this in each denominatiol forum and ill put one in another forum later. sooooooooooooooooooooooooo why? i would like for baptists to post and tell me why. i would prefer that u write in a nut shell why u dont then give me prooth/tell me why u beleve this like :
God changed the Sabbath to Sunday. blah blah blah
i would like for SDA and other Sabbatarians to come in here also

Okay, my friend, here is your 'nutshell' answer: Baptists do not worship on the seventh day because our Lord rose from the dead on the FIRST day of the week.....that would make it Sunday. Good enough reason for me! :thumbsup:

[DeaconDean]

Okay, my friend, here is your 'nutshell' answer: Baptists do not worship on the seventh day because our Lord rose from the dead on the FIRST day of the week.....that would make it Sunday. Good enough reason for me! :thumbsup:

Amen, that's what I said earlier and they didn't want to hear it.

[thepianist]

Amen, that's what I said earlier and they didn't want to hear it.

I'm glad there is somebody who agrees with me!!! :)

[mlqurgw]

ok im going to put this in each denominatiol forum and ill put one in another forum later. sooooooooooooooooooooooooo why? i would like for baptists to post and tell me why. i would prefer that u write in a nut shell why u dont then give me prooth/tell me why u beleve this like :
God changed the Sabbath to Sunday. blah blah blah
i would like for SDA and other Sabbatarians to come in here alsoI do not pretend to speak for all Baptists but I will speak for this one. Christ is the Sabbath for the believer. We rest in Him alone and see in Him no more need to work for acceptence with God. Matt. 11:28 tells us that He will give us rest. The hardest thing for a person to do is rest in Christ. We are constantly trying to work so that God will look on us in a better light or to get something from God. To rest, or keep the Sabbath in truth, is to see in Him all the work done and all the blessings of God earned already by Him. That doesn't mean we don't do works but that we don't do them out of legal obligation or to earn something from God. No one actually keeps a Sabbath. Not even the best of the Sabbatarians. We read nowhere in the Bible where any of the Patriarchs kept a Sabbath. It wasn't instituted until the Hebrews were in the wilderness. Ex. 16:22-30. To truly observe a legal Sabbath requires at least 4 things. 1. It must be observed on Sat. Ex. 20:10 2. NO work can be done on the Sabbath. Works of necessity and mercy were allowed but none that were in the least benificial to the Sabbath keeper. To keep a Sabbath is to totally deny self and totally dedicate yourself to God. 3. You must offer a double offering at the Temple in Jerusalem. Num. 28:9-10. 4. You must put to death all Sabbath breakers. Ex. 31:15 I know of no one who keeps a Sabbath in this way.

[reg]

Okay, my friend, here is your 'nutshell' answer: Baptists do not worship on the seventh day because our Lord rose from the dead on the FIRST day of the week.....that would make it Sunday. Good enough reason for me! :thumbsup:
where in the Bible does Jesus say to worship on the 1st day or that he changed the Sabbath to the first day

[jochanaan]

Hey, who said all Baptists worship on Sunday? There are a few of us who worship on the seventh-day Sabbath. For more information, check out this thread:
http://www.christianforums.com/t2401365-seventh-day-baptist.html
As long as we're setting aside one day in seven, why not the day the Lord set aside at creation? :)

[reg]

Hey, who said all Baptists worship on Sunday? There are a few of us who worship on the seventh-day Sabbath. For more information, check out this thread:
http://www.christianforums.com/t2401365-seventh-day-baptist.html
As long as we're setting aside one day in seven, why not the day the Lord set aside at creation? :)
lol i know i was the one who started that thread :D

[jochanaan]

lol i know i was the one who started that thread :D
So you were, and I thank you.:wave:

[mlqurgw]

lol i know i was the one who started that thread :DDo you imagine that you actually keep a Sabbath?

[jochanaan]

Do you imagine that you actually keep a Sabbath?
I can't speak for reg, but I do, and so does my branch of the Baptists, the Seventh Day Baptists. We're flexible about our observances, but we all rest and assemble to worship on Saturdays, usually in the morning.

Or did you have some other point to your question?

[£amb]

where in the Bible does Jesus say to worship on the 1st day or that he changed the Sabbath to the first day

Do you know that the command to set Saturday apart as a day of rest and worship is the only commandment not repeated in the NT? There is no specific verse stating the change of the Sabbath, but it was a gradual thing. In the NT, you can read in a couple places where Paul met with others on the first day of the week which was Sunday.

Are we still under the old law? I thought with Jesus'atonement we were no longer under the law, but grace.

As I said earlier, be careful not to judge christians for worshipping God on Sundays...are we any less christian?

[mlqurgw]

I can't speak for reg, but I do, and so does my branch of the Baptists, the Seventh Day Baptists. We're flexible about our observances, but we all rest and assemble to worship on Saturdays, usually in the morning.

Or did you have some other point to your question?See my post above on the requirements for keeping a Sabbath. I understand that non-Baptists aren't allowed to debate here but are we as Baptists allowed? Let me just say that rest and worship are certainly what we ought to do but it isn't keeping a Sabbath.

[jochanaan]

Do you know that the command to set Saturday apart as a day of rest and worship is the only commandment not repeated in the NT?
Nor is it specifically countermanded, as the command to circumcise was in Galatians.
There is no specific verse stating the change of the Sabbath, but it was a gradual thing. In the NT, you can read in a couple places where Paul met with others on the first day of the week which was Sunday.
Those were special occasions. Acts 20:7ff details a meeting at Troas on Paul's journey back to Jerusalem; he was leaving the next day. It is even possible that Luke used the Jewish reckoning of days when recording the time of this meeting, in which the evening of "the first day of the week" would be Saturday night. I Corinthians16:1-4 is about setting aside tithes, with no mention of rest or assembly. And "the Lord's day" in Revelation 1 may refer to the Last Day, the Day of the Lord.
Are we still under the old law? I thought with Jesus'atonement we were no longer under the law, but grace.
Do the other Nine Commandments still apply? If so, then why not this one? It is the Law's penalties that were "nailed to the Cross" (Colossians 2:14), not the Law itself.

[mlqurgw]

[/font]
Nor is it specifically countermanded, as the command to circumcise was in Galatians.
[font=Verdana]
Those were special occasions. Acts 20:7ff details a meeting at Troas on Paul's journey back to Jerusalem; he was leaving the next day. It is even possible that Luke used the Jewish reckoning of days when recording the time of this meeting, in which the evening of "the first day of the week" would be Saturday night. I Corinthians16:1-4 is about setting aside tithes, with no mention of rest or assembly. And "the Lord's day" in Revelation 1 may refer to the Last Day, the Day of the Lord.
[font=Helvetica][font=Verdana] Agreed. The Sabbath hasn't changed.
Do the other Nine Commandments still apply? If so, then why not this one? It is the Law's penalties that were "nailed to the Cross" (Colossians 2:14), not the Law itself.Here is where we will probably disagree.

[£amb]

[/font]
Nor is it specifically countermanded, as the command to circumcise was in Galatians.
[font=Verdana]
Those were special occasions. Acts 20:7ff details a meeting at Troas on Paul's journey back to Jerusalem; he was leaving the next day. It is even possible that Luke used the Jewish reckoning of days when recording the time of this meeting, in which the evening of "the first day of the week" would be Saturday night. I Corinthians16:1-4 is about setting aside tithes, with no mention of rest or assembly. And "the Lord's day" in Revelation 1 may refer to the Last Day, the Day of the Lord.
[font=Helvetica][font=Verdana]
Do the other Nine Commandments still apply? If so, then why not this one? It is the Law's penalties that were "nailed to the Cross" (Colossians 2:14), not the Law itself.

My point on this whole thing is this...whether we worship on Saturday or Sunday is up to the believer and what they're convinced is right. If someone is convinced that they should worship on Saturday, then so be it, let them worship God on Saturday. I will in no way judge that person on which day they do it. If someone is convinced that they should worship God on Sunday, then so be it, let them worship on Sunday.

This thread is created to answer the question of why we worship on Sunday. There have been answers given. This should in no way be turned into a debate on who's right or wrong and especially between fellow believers. Once posts are taken, split up to "debate" every sentence, then that's where I finish. I did not go into great detail of every point I made and I'm not ignorant on God's word. I merely pointed out a few things. I am in no trying to "attack" or anything like that, and I do apologize that it sounding this way. I had a feeling when the thread started it would start ending up like this and it's frustrating to see fellow believers, no matter what denomination we are, to start fussing over details of why we are children of God.

Once again, I apologize for sounding like I'm fussing at you, but I truly am not. Just been a long day, I'm tired and I broke one of my "forum" rules that I abide by, and that's not to answer to when I mean, cranky, tired and grumpy. You are a great person, and I have read several of your posts and find you to be very sincere...:)

[jochanaan]

My point on this whole thing is this...whether we worship on Saturday or Sunday is up to the believer and what they're convinced is right...You are a great person, and I have read several of your posts and find you to be very sincere...:)
Thank you! Let's leave it there, at least the two of us. God bless!:wave:

[£amb]

Thank you! Let's leave it there, at least the two of us. God bless!:wave:

Your welcome! I do still feel guilt for sounding the way I did, but God bless you to and do enjoy the New Year coming up..:)

[mlqurgw]

I certainly don't mean to give the impression I am looking for a debate. I am willing to debate in graciousness but I have enough on my plate as it is. My only intention is to perhaps be of help to those who would like to understand better. I seriously doubt that any involved in a debate would come to a different position than where they are now. Debates tend more to cement you in your position than to move you from it.

[Athanasian Creed]

Do you know that the command to set Saturday apart as a day of rest and worship is the only commandment not repeated in the NT? ...

Many would also say the same thing about "tithing" as well...off topic i know. Just a clarification. ;)


Ray :wave:

[Athanasian Creed]

...Do the other Nine Commandments still apply? If so, then why not this one? It is the Law's penalties that were "nailed to the Cross" (Colossians 2:14), not the Law itself.

We are not bound by ceremonial laws, of which the Sabbath is one, given specifically to the Jewish people. Moral laws (laws governing our relationship with our fellow man) and the Commandments regarding our relationship with God are enforced in the NT. ;)

The Apostle's in Acts went to synagogue, not out of obligation to the law but to be a witness to fellow Jews and Greeks who did not believe -

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.





Ray :wave:

[ThreeAM]

We are not bound by ceremonial laws, of which the Sabbath is one, given specifically to the Jewish people. Moral laws (laws governing our relationship with our fellow man) and the Commandments regarding our relationship with God are enforced in the NT. ;)

The Apostle's in Acts went to synagogue, not out of obligation to the law but to be a witness to fellow Jews and Greeks who did not believe -

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Ray :wave:

I would point out that Saul went to the synagogues to persecute...Christians..So it stands to reason that Paul was going to the synagogues every Sabbth to talk with Christians and Jews.

Acts 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:

Here are a couple of verses that have always been interesting to me.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

I would like your take on why Paul didn't just tell these Gentiles to meet with him on the very next day, Sunday, if Paul considered it the new day of Christian worship. Instead he waited to the following Sabbath to preach to these Gentiles...why?

[mlqurgw]

I would point out that Saul went to the synagogues to persecute...Christians..

Acts 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:

Here are a couple of verses that have always been interesting to me.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

I would like your take on why Paul didn't just tell these Gentiles to meet with him on the very next day, Sunday, if Paul considered it the new day of Christian worship. Instead he waited to the following Sabbath to preach to these Gentiles...why?This question wasn't addressed to me but could it be because they asked him to? I do believe that if you are going to keep a legal Sabbath you must do it on Sat. but again who truly keeps a legal Sabbath?

[MrJim]

Another point is that the early church met to worship on the "Lord's Day" or the "eighth day". Early church as in the apostles and the disciples of the apostles. Early church leaders such as Ignatius and Justin Martyr and Tertullian speak of worshipping on Sunday. An early document called the Didache speaks of worshipping on the Lord's Day. Really have a tough time thinking the church fell on it's face right from the start and made such a huge error until "7th dayers" came along to correct it

And I really don't have a problem with people worshipping on Saturday-hey, even Tuesday would be a nice day if you think about it. What's interesting is when SDA says Sunday worship will be a "Mark of the Beast".

[ThreeAM]

This question wasn't addressed to me but could it be because they asked him to? I do believe that if you are going to keep a legal Sabbath you must do it on Sat. but again who truly keeps a legal Sabbath?

OK then why didn't Paul take this opportunity to tell them about a new day of Christian worship instead of preaching to Gentiles on the Sabbath? Just currious.

[ThreeAM]

Another point is that the early church met to worship on the "Lord's Day" or the "eighth day". Early church as in the apostles and the disciples of the apostles. Early church leaders such as Ignatius and Justin Martyr and Tertullian speak of worshipping on Sunday. An early document called the Didache speaks of worshipping on the Lord's Day. Really have a tough time thinking the church fell on it's face right from the start and made such a huge error until "7th dayers" came along to correct it

And I really don't have a problem with people worshipping on Saturday-hey, even Tuesday would be a nice day if you think about it. What's interesting is when SDA says Sunday worship will be a "Mark of the Beast".

Just before Jerusalem fell to the Romans Josephus tells us that the Christians fled Jerusalem to the mountains. Ephinius[?] Wrote that the Christian fled to the mountain city of Pella and that the desendants of the Jerusalem Church were still worshiping on the Sabbath in 350 AD. The Jews didn't like them to much because they worshiped Christ and the Roman Church didn't like them to much because they observed the Sabbath.

[I have the direct quotes on my laptop which is in the shop for repairs. I'll be happy to provide them as long as my hard drive survives.:doh: ]

The only day in the Bible that the Lord specifically lays claims to is the Sabbath.

Mat. 12:8 "For the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day."

So it stand's to reason that John was refering to the Lord's day that Christ claimed as his.

[Athanasian Creed]

I would point out that Saul went to the synagogues to persecute...Christians..So it stands to reason that Paul was going to the synagogues every Sabbth to talk with Christians and Jews.

Acts 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:

Here are a couple of verses that have always been interesting to me.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

I would like your take on why Paul didn't just tell these Gentiles to meet with him on the very next day, Sunday, if Paul considered it the new day of Christian worship. Instead he waited to the following Sabbath to preach to these Gentiles...why?

The fact that Saul found believers in synagogues doesn't prove that 7th day Sabbath observance was required in the NT. Since, more than likely, they were Jewish believers they would attend synagogue according to their tradition.

The Gentiles who attended synagogue were probably proselytes of Judaism.;)


Ray :wave:

[mlqurgw]

OK then why didn't Paul take this opportunity to tell them about a new day of Christian worship instead of preaching to Gentiles on the Sabbath? Just currious.Actually we don't find in the NT any reference to the day of worship as changing but it is implied certainly and clear that we shouldn't look to any particular day. Col. 2:16 The practice of gathering together for public worship on Sunday has come about from interpretations of the earliest writings of the "fathers" I believe. I have no problem with it as we ought to gather together as we are told to do in Heb. 10:25. I just have a problem calling it the Sabbath and with those who claim to keep it as a Sabbath. We only have one reference to the Lord's day in Rev. 1 and it is usually thought to mean Sunday. As far as Paul not taking the opportunity to preach to them it may have been because he was known as a Jew and the word of God was normally taught on the Sabbath according to the Law. They probably conducted normal buisness the rest of the week and had little time to hear him. Certainly we can surmise that those who believed were in constant contact with Paul being taught of him as we read in Acts.

[Athanasian Creed]

Another point is that the early church met to worship on the "Lord's Day" or the "eighth day". Early church as in the apostles and the disciples of the apostles. Early church leaders such as Ignatius and Justin Martyr and Tertullian speak of worshipping on Sunday. An early document called the Didache speaks of worshipping on the Lord's Day. Really have a tough time thinking the church fell on it's face right from the start and made such a huge error until "7th dayers" came along to correct it

And I really don't have a problem with people worshipping on Saturday-hey, even Tuesday would be a nice day if you think about it. What's interesting is when SDA says Sunday worship will be a "Mark of the Beast".

Acquired had a bad taste in my mouth for SDAism when i had one come in to the Jews for Jesus office here in Toronto where i worked a decade ago and exulted not that we believed in Jesus as Messiah but that we kept the 7th Day Sabbath!!!!:doh:

When i told him that not all Messianics observe the Jewish Sabbath, he went on and on about it, that we were breaking God's law and all. It was a REAL turn off!:sigh:


Ray :wave:

[ThreeAM]

Acquired had a bad taste in my mouth for SDAism when i had one come in to the Jews for Jesus office here in Toronto where i worked a decade ago and exulted not that we believed in Jesus as Messiah but that we kept the 7th Day Sabbath!!!!:doh:

When i told him that not all Messianics observe the Jewish Sabbath, he went on and on about it, that we were breaking God's law and all. It was a REAL turn off!:sigh:


Ray :wave:

Agreed! That's sad that your first taste of SDA was such a poor example..Please accept my appolgy.:( I didn't realy like the title of this thread ..It should have ready why do you observe the 1st day of the week in stead on the 7th day.

[mlqurgw]

Acquired had a bad taste in my mouth for SDAism when i had one come in to the Jews for Jesus office here in Toronto where i worked a decade ago and exulted not that we believed in Jesus as Messiah but that we kept the 7th Day Sabbath!!!!:doh:

When i told him that not all Messianics observe the Jewish Sabbath, he went on and on about it, that we were breaking God's law and all. It was a REAL turn off!:sigh:


Ray :wave:Theirs is a religion of bondage as any Law keeping is. The Law has a purpose, to show us our need of Christ, and it serves that purpose well. Those who contend that the Law is still to be a rule of life for the believer have no real understanding of the Law.

[ThreeAM]

Actually we don't find in the NT any reference to the day of worship as changing but it is implied certainly and clear that we shouldn't look to any particular day. Col. 2:16 The practice of gathering together for public worship on Sunday has come about from interpretations of the earliest writings of the "fathers" I believe. I have no problem with it as we ought to gather together as we are told to do in Heb. 10:25. I just have a problem calling it the Sabbath and with those who claim to keep it as a Sabbath. We only have one reference to the Lord's day in Rev. 1 and it is usually thought to mean Sunday. As far as Paul not taking the opportunity to preach to them it may have been because he was known as a Jew and the word of God was normally taught on the Sabbath according to the Law. They probably conducted normal buisness the rest of the week and had little time to hear him. Certainly we can surmise that those who believed were in constant contact with Paul being taught of him as we read in Acts.

But wasn't it common practice for Gentiles [pagan's] to observe the day of the Sun..the 1st day of the week and as such they should have had the 1st day of the week avaiable to listen to Paul. I mean we see that it was Paul's custom to preach on the Sabbath. In Acts alone he is said to have preached or observed the Sabbath more than 80 times. Wouldn't you agree Paul missed a huge opportunity here if Sunday was to be the New Day of Christian worship?

[JPPT1974]

But you have to remember this
That all denominations are different
Not one is of the same
We all have different practices
In how we worship.

[ThreeAM]

But you have to remember this
That all denominations are different
Not one is of the same
We all have different practices
In how we worship.

Agreed! But there is but one God [3 but 1] one author of the scriptures and God doesn't disagree with himself does he? If he changes from one day to the next how would we trust him?

Mal 3:6" For I am the LORD, I change not..."

Shouldn't there one true way that God expects us to worship him?:)

[Athanasian Creed]

But wasn't it common practice for Gentiles [pagan's] to observe the day of the Sun..the 1st day of the week and as such they should have had the 1st day of the week avaiable to listen to Paul. I mean we see that it was Paul's custom to preach on the Sabbath. In Acts alone he is said to have preached or observed the Sabbath more than 80 times. Wouldn't you agree Paul missed a huge opportunity here if Sunday was to be the New Day of Christian worship?

As i said in an earlier post, the Gentiles mentioned in Acts 13:42 were converts to Judaism. As a Jew, Paul's custom would have been to attend synagogue on the 7th day in order to be a witness to Jewish born and proselyte unbelievers. That was his whole reason for meeting on the 7th day, not out of obligation to the law but so that he could become "all things to all men so i might save some."

Acts 17:2-4 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ. And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

Ray :wave:

[mlqurgw]

But wasn't it common practice for Gentiles [pagan's] to observe the day of the Sun..the 1st day of the week and as such they should have had the 1st day of the week avaiable to listen to Paul. I mean we see that it was Paul's custom to preach on the Sabbath. In Acts alone he is said to have preached or observed the Sabbath more than 80 times. Wouldn't you agree Paul missed a huge opportunity here if Sunday was to be the New Day of Christian worship?I am not sure we can say that he observed a Sabbath, although I am only going on a faulty memory. In our understanding yes we could say that he missed an opportunity but we aren't given all the details either. I honestly try not to build too much doctrine from the book of Acts. Again, IIRC, we do not read of him going to the synagogue after he left preaching to the Jews, chapter 18 I think. I believe I have already made my views known as to the day of worship.

[ThreeAM]

Theirs is a religion of bondage as any Law keeping is. The Law has a purpose, to show us our need of Christ, and it serves that purpose well. Those who contend that the Law is still to be a rule of life for the believer have no real understanding of the Law.

Actually NO ONE will be saved by keeping the law [Not even in the Old Testament read Hebrews 11]. We are all saved by Grace. But Christians should avoid lieing, stealing , murdering, coveting, adultry etc. etc. the Ten commandments are still ten and not nine. Keeping them will not save you, only Christ's grace does that, the are the standard for Christian behavior however.:thumbsup:

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

[Athanasian Creed]

Agreed! But there is but one God [3 but 1] one author of the scriptures and God doesn't disagree with himself does he? If he changes from one day to the next how would we trust him?

Mal 3:6" For I am the LORD, I change not..."

Shouldn't there one true way that God expects us to worship him?:)

That verse speaks in regards to His nature. Observances are different, some, like the Jewish Sabbath, are time specific. ;)

John 4:21-24 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Notice the words of Jesus to the Samaritan woman, who was hung up on where to worship God. Jesus replied that it is not where that is important, it is how. The important thing is to worship the Father "in spirit and in truth." That is the only thing that matters - not where we worship or when but how! ;)


Ray :wave:

[ThreeAM]

As i said in an earlier post, the Gentiles mentioned in Acts 13:42 were converts to Judaism. As a Jew, Paul's custom would have been to attend synagogue on the 7th day in order to be a witness to Jewish born and proselyte unbelievers. That was his whole reason for meeting on the 7th day, not out of obligation to the law but so that he could become "all things to all men so i might save some."

Acts 17:2-4 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ. And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

Ray :wave:

So you think the almost whole city was Jews or Gentile converts???

13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

[mlqurgw]

Actually NO ONE will be saved by keeping the law [Not even in the Old Testament read Hebrews 11]. We are all saved by Grace. But Christians should avoid lieing, stealing , murdering, coveting, adultry etc. etc. the Ten commandments are still ten and not nine. Keeping them will not save you, only Christ's grace does that, the are the standard for Christian behavior however.:thumbsup:

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.Do you need law to tell not to do those things? Believers have the Law written on our hearts. Read what Paul teaches Timothy concerning a lawful use of the Law in 1Tim. 1:7-11. The whole of the Book of God is our rule not just the commandments. We truly uphold the Law by realizing we can't keep it. Rom. 3:31, 7:4-14 To put the believer under Law in any sense is to again put him under bondage to keep it. Gal. 3:3, 10, 5:1, 18 As I said earlier, we read of none of the Patriarchs observing a Sabbath. It was not instituted until the wilderness and the Law came. Heb. 4 teaches us the true sense of the Sabbath. It is Christ.

[ThreeAM]

I have to go for awhile but I would like to ask these two questions

1. Is there a difference between ceremonial/sacrifical law?

2. Was the sacrifical Law a foreshadowing of the coming of Christ and his death on the cross?

Thank for discussing this with me.

ThreeAM :wave:

[Athanasian Creed]

So you think the almost whole city was Jews or Gentile converts???

13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Jewish born non-believers, Gentile proselytes to Judaism and Greeks. ;)

Paul and Barnabas used the 7th day Sabbath as a means to speak unto non-believers. After being convinced of the truth of the Apostle's message, many followed Paul and Barnabas in "the Way" -

Acts 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.


Ray :wave:

[ZiSunka]

ok im going to put this in each denominatiol forum and ill put one in another forum later. sooooooooooooooooooooooooo why? i would like for baptists to post and tell me why. i would prefer that u write in a nut shell why u dont then give me prooth/tell me why u beleve this like :
God changed the Sabbath to Sunday. blah blah blah
i would like for SDA and other Sabbatarians to come in here also

The sabbath was created for man, not man for the sabbath. Besides, what is the sabbath but a day of rest. God didn't command that we worship on that day, or that we fellowship or anything at all religious on the sabbath. He commanded that we rest. By the time Saturday rolls around, I am pooped out so I rest. Isn't that a sabbath?

[mlqurgw]

I have to go for awhile but I would like to ask these two questions

1. Is there a difference between ceremonial/sacrifical law?

2. Was the sacrifical Law a foreshadowing of the coming of Christ and his death on the cross?

Thank for discussing this with me.

ThreeAM :wave:The Scriptures never seperate the Law it simply says the Law and means all of it. There are certainly distinctions in the application of the Law such as civil, ceremonial and sacrificial but it is not made in the Bible but only by theologians as a simplified way of understanding certain aspects of the Law. And yes the sacrifices were a foreshadowing of the death of Christ.

[Athanasian Creed]

I am not sure we can say that he observed a Sabbath, although I am only going on a faulty memory. In our understanding yes we could say that he missed an opportunity but we aren't given all the details either. I honestly try not to build too much doctrine from the book of Acts...

There is no mention in Acts of observing the 7th day Sabbath, you are right. It was Paul's custom, as a Jewish follower of Jesus, to meet in synagogue, not out of obligation to the law but as a means of being a witness to the New Covenant.

Again, IIRC, we do not read of him going to the synagogue after he left preaching to the Jews, chapter 18 I think.

Excellent point! :thumbsup: Once he "wiped his feet" of the unbelieving Jews, he turned his attention to the Gentiles -

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.


Ray :wave:

[mlqurgw]

The sabbath was created for man, not man for the sabbath. Besides, what is the sabbath but a day of rest. God didn't command that we worship on that day, or that we fellowship or anything at all religious on the sabbath. He commanded that we rest. By the time Saturday rolls around, I am pooped out so I rest. Isn't that a sabbath?I hate to differ with you but I would suggest you read Num. 28:9-10. A double sacrifice was to be made at Jerusalem on the sabbath.

[RED that's ME]

STAFF NOTE:

It has already been posted that only Baptists/AnaBaptist can debate in the Baptist/AnaBaptist forum. I encourage non-members to observes the rules of the forum and post only sincere ernest questions.
The only ones who can discuss/debate any issue are Baptist/AnaBaptist members.

[ZiSunka]

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Give this command to the Israelites: Be sure to bring me my offerings at the right times. They are my food. They are offerings by fire, a soothing aroma. 3 These are the offerings by fire that you must bring to the LORD. Every day you must bring as a daily burnt offering two one-year-old lambs that have no defects. 4 Offer one in the morning and the other at dusk. 5 [With each of them] also bring a grain offering of eight cups of flour mixed with one quart of virgin olive oil. 6 This is the daily burnt offering which was established on Mount Sinai. This offering is a soothing aroma, an offering by fire to the LORD. 7 Also bring a wine offering of one quart of wine for each lamb. Pour it out to the LORD in a holy place. 8 Offer the other lamb at dusk along with the same grain offering and wine offering as you brought in the morning. This is an offering by fire, a soothing aroma to the LORD. 9 "On the day of worship offer two one-year-old lambs that have no defects, a grain offering of 16 cups of flour mixed with olive oil, and the wine offering that goes with it. 10 This burnt offering is for every day of worship in addition to the daily burnt offerings and the wine offerings that go with them.

Day of worship, not sabbath. this was supposed to happen everyday, not once a week.

[mlqurgw]

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Give this command to the Israelites: Be sure to bring me my offerings at the right times. They are my food. They are offerings by fire, a soothing aroma. 3 These are the offerings by fire that you must bring to the LORD. Every day you must bring as a daily burnt offering two one-year-old lambs that have no defects. 4 Offer one in the morning and the other at dusk. 5 [With each of them] also bring a grain offering of eight cups of flour mixed with one quart of virgin olive oil. 6 This is the daily burnt offering which was established on Mount Sinai. This offering is a soothing aroma, an offering by fire to the LORD. 7 Also bring a wine offering of one quart of wine for each lamb. Pour it out to the LORD in a holy place. 8 Offer the other lamb at dusk along with the same grain offering and wine offering as you brought in the morning. This is an offering by fire, a soothing aroma to the LORD. 9 "On the day of worship offer two one-year-old lambs that have no defects, a grain offering of 16 cups of flour mixed with olive oil, and the wine offering that goes with it. 10 This burnt offering is for every day of worship in addition to the daily burnt offerings and the wine offerings that go with them.

Day of worship, not sabbath. this was supposed to happen everyday, not once a week.
Num 28:9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:

Num 28:10 This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

[ZiSunka]

So how many lambs does your church sacrifice on the sabbath?

[mlqurgw]

So how many lambs does your church sacrifice on the sabbath?Our sacrifice was made 2000 years or so ago. My whole point was that to keep a Sabbath as it is prescribed in the Bible is to offer a double sacrifice on the Sabbath. If we seek to keep a legal Sabbath we must also do that which was required. That is why I said no one keeps a Sabbath, even the ones who claim to. We simply can't pick and choose what portions of the Law we are going to keep. If we are going to keep the Law we must keep it all.

[ZiSunka]

Our sacrifice was made 2000 years or so ago. My whole point was that to keep a Sabbath as it is prescribed in the Bible is to offer a double sacrifice on the Sabbath. If we seek to keep a legal Sabbath we must also do that which was required. That is why I said no one keeps a Sabbath, even the ones who claim to. We simply can't pick and choose what portions of the Law we are going to keep. If we are going to keep the Law we must keep it all.

:doh: So why are you arguing with me?

[royscarbrough]

why cant we worship CHRIST every day he became our rest you should assembley your- self with him each day a lot of people worship there denomation more than CHRIST.

[mlqurgw]

:doh: So why are you arguing with me?I wasn't arguing with you intentionally but only sought to clarify what you said in your first post I responded to. As I believed you had a mistaken understanding as it appeared in your post I sought to teach you. I apologize if I offended you. It is very difficult to relate your intentions and manner in this medium. If you would have been able to hear my tone you would have understood my intention right away I hope. I am told that my manner does give the wrong impression often though. It seems I have some difficulty showing what is in my heart in any medium. :)

[reg]

www.christianforums.com/t2462332-why-dont-baptists-obey-the-seventh-day-sabbath.html (http://www.christianforums.com/t2462332-why-dont-baptists-obey-the-seventh-day-sabbath.html)

[ZiSunka]

I wasn't arguing with you intentionally but only sought to clarify what you said in your first post I responded to. As I believed you had a mistaken understanding as it appeared in your post I sought to teach you. I apologize if I offended you. It is very difficult to relate your intentions and manner in this medium. If you would have been able to hear my tone you would have understood my intention right away I hope. I am told that my manner does give the wrong impression often though. It seems I have some difficulty showing what is in my heart in any medium. :)

Sought to teach me? What makes you a teacher?

[reg]

if u wanna debate thats fine with me but i dont wanna break the rules so can yall start posting in the link i gave?

[mlqurgw]

Sought to teach me? What makes you a teacher?I guess to you nothing. But I am called of God as a preacher and teacher of the Gospel whether you recognize it or not. As you seem to exhibit an unteachable attitude I will refrain from such in the future as far as you are concerned. That is if I can remember our conversation here the next time I come across your posts.

[ZiSunka]

So a person asks you what credentials you have to teach and that makes you think they have an unteachable attitude, whatever that is?

[mlqurgw]

So a person asks you what credentials you have to teach and that makes you think they have an unteachable attitude, whatever that is?I suspect that my "credentials" wouldn't satisfy you so I will not give them. I sought to make ammends with you and you bite back at me. I have no more time for you.

[ZiSunka]

I have no more time for you.

Thanks, I appreciate that very much. :)

[RED that's ME]

This thread is closed since the OP question has been fully answered.