Talmud

[Snowy]

Please explain what the Talmud is.

[jgonz]

The Talmud is, basically, a collection of rabbinical commentaries on the Torah. Sometimes these commentaries have expanded on Torah and added to what G-d originally said. Often it's called the Oral Torah.

[HaNotsri]

(This is the same response I put in an earlier thread)

The Talmud is one of the central religious texts in Judaism. It's comprised of I believe 63 mesechtos (tractates).

Judaism believes that along with the written Torah given at Mt. Sinai, an oral Torah was also given. The oral Torah was the detailed explanations of the written that allowed the written to be put into practice. It was passed down l'dor vador (from generation to generation). As times changed, the laws were redacted to fit into the times that the Jewish people were living in.

After the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, one of the greatest of Chaz"l (the sage), Rabbi Yehuda haNasi (Rabbi Judah the Prince) realized that the Jewish population was going to be dispersed as a result and feared that the oral Torah would be lost and the Jewish people would lose how to appropriately apply the Torah to their lives. He set out to codify the oral Torah, he completed it and it was dubbed the Mishnah (Heb. for repitition). Over the next few centuries, two schools of Jewish thought (one in Tiberias, Israel and the more authorative in Babylon) discussed the Mishnah and compiled many legends, discussions, and traditions surrounding the Mishnah into the Gemara. Together, the codified oral Torah (Mishnah) and the discussions surrounding it (Gemara), make up the Talmud. Today, on each daf (page of Talmud), you also have various commentaries that have arisen since. Interestingly enough, the modern Talmud page was organized by a German Christian (in the 15th or 16th century).

While Jewish law was poskened (derived) from Talmud and it is still studied on a daily basis (via the worldwide daf yomi "daf-a-day" program) as society changes and principles need to be made to fit new situations, the core of Jewish law comes from the majority and accepted opinions of the Talmud that were brought down as authorative. All of these accepted principles were codified in later books like the Ramb"m's Mishneh Torah, Rabbi Yosef Karo's Shulchan Aruch, and the Chafetz Chaim's Mishnah B'reura.

The basic principle in Judaism is that there are two types of commandments. Those of d'oraisa (given at Sinai) and those of d'rabbanan (rabbinic injuctions). There are commandments that are commonly accepted as being directly from Sinai (those in the written Torah and the principles surrounding them found in rabbinic literature like the Talmud) and those that are created by the rabbeim in order to protect the orders and laws of the Torah. The written Torah itself gives authority to the rabbeim to interpret and enforce Torah law in D'varim (Deuteronomy) 17. It is a more serious violation to violate a commandment that is d'oraisa (from the Bible) than it is to violate a d'rabbanan (from the rabbis). However, one should still follow the accepted rabbinic opinion in situations related to Torah observance as is stated in that chapter in D'varim.

That's just a little about it. If you have any further questions. Feel free to e-mail, PM, or post a message to me.

Michael

[BarbB]

....The basic principle in Judaism is that there are two types of commandments. Those of d'oraisa (given at Sinai) and those of d'rabbanan (rabbinic injuctions). There are commandments that are commonly accepted as being directly from Sinai (those in the written Torah and the principles surrounding them found in rabbinic literature like the Talmud) and those that are created by the rabbeim in order to protect the orders and laws of the Torah. The written Torah itself gives authority to the rabbeim to interpret and enforce Torah law in D'varim (Deuteronomy) 17. It is a more serious violation to violate a commandment that is d'oraisa (from the Bible) than it is to violate a d'rabbanan (from the rabbis). However, one should still follow the accepted rabbinic opinion in situations related to Torah observance as is stated in that chapter in D'varim.

That's just a little about it. If you have any further questions. Feel free to e-mail, PM, or post a message to me.

Michael

This was really helpful, Michael. Thanks.

Do most/many/any Messianics follow the Talmud or just Torah law? (asking as a new Messianic believer).

[HaNotsri]

Hi New Lamb,

Well after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Judaism was developed so that it could survive without the Temple. The Pharisaic form of Judaism is the only one that survived after the destruction and that became today's rabbinic Judaism. While most Messianics I know have a big problem with the rabbis or rabbinic rulings or the Talmud (as there are often harsh words for the tradition of the elders in the New Testament, though I think for the most part Jesus was speaking to hypocrisy), you really can't escape it. Every single practice in Judaism is rabbinic in origin as it was the rabbis and their biblical exegesis that determined how the Torah should be put into practice. Most Messianics brush off a lot of the tradition and fences that were built up around the commandments, no matter how much you do that you are still practicing a "rabbinic" Judaism even with a lot of the tradition stripped away. You can't escape it.

Michael

[simchat_torah]

Do most/many/any Messianics follow the Talmud or just Torah law? (asking as a new Messianic believer).while some messianics may proclaim to follow the Oral traditions, I have yet to meet a single one who does in full. Some pick and choose, others outright cast it off as heresy.

[BarbB]

Thanks, Michael. That's what I was talking about, I think. I've been told that the Talmud piled on extended definitions of the law from Torah. Can we not separate the wheat from the chaff and take Torah law in it's plain meaning sense. After all, Jesus walked and reaped and healed on the Sabbath. :)

Barb

Hi New Lamb,

Well after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Judaism was developed so that it could survive without the Temple. The Pharisaic form of Judaism is the only one that survived after the destruction and that became today's rabbinic Judaism. While most Messianics I know have a big problem with the rabbis or rabbinic rulings or the Talmud (as there are often harsh words for the tradition of the elders in the New Testament, though I think for the most part Jesus was speaking to hypocrisy), you really can't escape it. Every single practice in Judaism is rabbinic in origin as it was the rabbis and their biblical exegesis that determined how the Torah should be put into practice. Most Messianics brush off a lot of the tradition and fences that were built up around the commandments, no matter how much you do that you are still practicing a "rabbinic" Judaism even with a lot of the tradition stripped away. You can't escape it.

Michael

[BarbB]

while some messianics may proclaim to follow the Oral traditions, I have yet to meet a single one who does in full. Some pick and choose, others outright cast it off as heresy.

Thanks, simchat_torah. :wave:

[simchat_torah]

Sure thing ;)

p.s. It wasn't meant as an insult, just a statement of fact. Messianics tend not to adhere to the Oral Torah (aka: Talmud).

[BarbB]

No insult taken - I happen to agree with you, so far as I know! :wave:

[simchat_torah]

To Whomever is interested,

The Talmud is very technical in nature. Its text can seem quite confusing to the untrained eye. There are often many Rabbis giving varying perspectives on a single issue. They can even contradict one another.... and the Talmud may not always give the answer as to which one is right. It is a rather massive work, about the size of your typical encyclopedia (many volumes).

You can purchase it on CD for a much cheaper price. The CD version includes a search function, English and Hebrew (some aramaic too I think), Rashi's commentary and a bit more.

Where to begin? Start by reading the Torah. Then discuss with a Rabbi what the Oral law says about a subject, and then go to the Talmud.

That is... if you're interested in following Halacha. ;)

[Snowy]

what is Halacha?

[HadassahSukkot]

Halacha is "the way things are done"

Halakha
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Halakha (Hebrew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language): הלכה; also transliterated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_transliteration) as Halakhah, Halacha, Halakhot and Halachah) is the collective corpus of Jewish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism) religious law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_law), including biblical law (the 613 mitzvot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot)) and later talmudic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud) and rabbinic law as well as customs and traditions. Judaism classically draws no distinction in its laws between religious and non-religious life. Hence, Halakha guides not only religious practices and beliefs, but numerous aspects of day-to-day life. Halakha is often translated as "Jewish Law," though a more accurate translation might be "the path" or "the way of walking." The word is derived from the Hebrew root which means to go, to walk or to travel.
Historically, Halakha served many Jewish communities as an enforceable avenue of civil and religious law. In the modern era, Jewish citizens may be bound to Halakhah only by their voluntary consent...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha

To keep it simple, an example of Halacha would be "how do I dress to go to the synagogue?" or "what do I eat during Pesach [passover]?" - the answers are within the "rules" - Halacha.

[Snowy]

thank you

I know this is off topic but you av is so cute!