Nothing says "I care" quite like the offer of killing children...

[Orthosdoxa]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9514379/from/RL.1/


:mad: :mad: :mad:


citation for visitors to TAW: please read this: http://www.christianforums.com/t2454322-eastern-orthodox-and-the-ancient-ways-official-position-on-abortion.html#post20967385

[Michael the Iconographer]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9514379/from/RL.1/




Lord, Have Mercy! :crosseo: :crosseo: :crosseo:


citation for visitors to TAW: please read this: http://www.christianforums.com/t2454322-eastern-orthodox-and-the-ancient-ways-official-position-on-abortion.html#post20967385

[Maximus]

How sad.

Where are the cries of "racism"?

Since the majority of N'Orleans evacuees are black, couldn't "Dr." Edwards' offer of free abortions be interpreted as his personal contribution to genocide?

Aren't a disproportionate percentage of aborted babies black?


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[Orthosdoxa]

How sad.

Where are the cries of "racism"?

Since the majority of N'Orleans evacuees are black, couldn't "Dr." Edwards' offer of free abortions be interpreted as his personal contribution to genocide?

Aren't a disproportionate percentage of aborted babies black?

Actually, that's EXACTLY what I thought of it. Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, wrote a nasty treatise on how abortion was the best tool to wipe out a certain race. Abortion kills children of all colors, but in this country, at least, it is the main tool of extermination of little brown babies.


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[Wiffey]

How sad.

Where are the cries of "racism"?

Since the majority of N'Orleans evacuees are black, couldn't "Dr." Edwards' offer of free abortions be interpreted as his personal contribution to genocide?

Aren't a disproportionate percentage of aborted babies black?

I don't think it is a coincidence that abortion/contraception queen Margaret Sanger was a racist & eugenics booster. She lobbied that abortion & forced sterilizations were needed to "control" undesirables from breeding...

Sorry!...didn't read the whole thread before chiming in and Anonykat already pointed this out...

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[eoe]

edited out stuff....

Barnabas: "You shall not kill either the fetus by abortion or the new born" (Letter of Barnabas, circa 125)

Anon: writing circa 135 CE in The Apocalypse of Peter: "I saw a gorge in which the discharge and excrement of the tortured ran down and became like a lake. There sat women, and the discharge came up to their throats; and opposite them sat many children, who were born prematurely, weeping. And from them went forth rays of fire and smote the women on the eyes. These were those who produced children outside of marriage, and who procured abortions." 26 "Those who slew the unborn children will be tortured forever, for God wills it to so." 2:264

Athenagoras: "We say that women who induce abortions are
murderers, and will have to give account of it to God. For the same person, would not regard the child in the womb as a living being and therefore an object of God's care and then kill it.... But we are altogether consistent in our conduct. We obey reason and do not override it." Petition to Emperor Marcus Aurelius (121-180 CE), circa 150 CE

Clement of Alexandria: (? - 215 CE) "Our whole life can go on in observation of the laws of nature, if we gain dominion over our desires from the beginning and if we do not kill, by various means of a perverse art, the human offspring, born according to the designs of divine providence; for these women who, if order to hide their immorality, use abortive drugs which expel the child completely dead, abort at the same time their own human feelings." Paedagogus 2

Tertullian (circa 155 - 225 CE): "...we are not permitted, since murder has been prohibited to us once and for all, even to destroy ...the fetus in the womb. It makes no difference whether one destroys a life that has already been born or one that is in the process of birth." 4

St. Hippolytus (circa 170-236 CE): "Reputed believes began to resort to drugs for producing Sterility and to gird themselves round, so as to expel what was conceived on account of their not wanting to have a child either by a slave or by any paltry fellow, for the sake of their family and excessive wealth. Behold, into how great impiety that lawless one has proceeded, by inculcating adultery and murder at the same time." "Refutation of all Heresies" 9:7

Minicius Felix (a Christian lawyer; circa 180 - 225 CE): "Some women take medicines to destroy the germ of future life in their own bodies. They commit infanticide before they have given birth to the infant" 5

St. Basil the Great (circa 330 - 379 CE): "She who has deliberately destroyed a fetus has to pay the penalty of murder...here it is not only the child to be born that is vindicated, but also the woman herself who made an attempt against her own life, because usually the women die in such attempts. Furthermore, added to this is the destruction of the child, another murder... Moreover, those, too, who give drugs causing abortion are deliberate murderers themselves, as well as those receiving the poison which kills the fetus." Letter 188:2 St. Ambrose: (339 to 397 CE) "The poor expose their children, the rich kill the fruit of their own bodies in the womb, lest their property be divided up, and they destroy their own children in the womb with murderous poisons. and before life has been passed on, it is annihilated." 6

St. John Chrysostom (circa 340 - 407 CE): "Why sow where the ground makes it its care to destroy the fruit? Where there are many efforts at abortion? Where there is murder before the birth? For you do not even let the harlot remain a mere harlot, but make her a murderer also. You see how drunkenness leads to whoredom, whoredom to adultery, adultery to murder; or rather something even worse than murder. For I have no real name to give it, since it does not destroy the thing born but prevents its being born. Why then do you abuse the gift of God and fight with His laws, and follow after what is a curse as if a blessing, and make the place of procreation a chamber for murder, and arm the woman that was given for childbearing unto slaughter?" Homily 24 on Romans

St. Jerome (circa 342-420 CE): "They drink potions to ensure sterility and are guilty of murdering a human being not yet conceived. Some, when they learn that they are with child through sin, practice abortion by the use of drugs. Frequently they die themselves and are brought before the rulers of the lower world guilty of three crimes: suicide, adultery against Christ, and murder of an unborn child." Letter 22:13
Tertullian circa 160-240 CE:
"For us [Christians] we may not destroy even the fetus in the womb, while as yet the human being derives blood from other parts of the body for its sustenance. To hinder a birth is merely a speedier man-killing; nor does it matter when you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to birth. That is a man which is going to be one: you have the fruit already in the seed." -Apology 9:6

"They [John and Jesus] were both alive while still in the womb. Elizabeth rejoiced as the infant leaped in her womb; Mary glorifies the Lord because Christ within inspired her. Each mother recognizes her child and is known by her child who is alive, being not merely souls but also spirits." -De A ninta 26:4

It sure is great to have so much to look to in ethical situations like this. In this particular case the words of the fathers are clear.

rather something even worse than murder.
Worse than murder.

[Michael the Iconographer]

"You shall not
procure abortion, nor destroy a newborn child."

The Didichae was written sometime arround 120 AD (give or take a few decades).

[minasoliman]

Amen!

This is sickening.

Lord have mercy.


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[Xpycoctomos]

Since the majority of N'Orleans evacuees are black, couldn't "Dr." Edwards' offer of free abortions be interpreted as his personal contribution to genocide?



Jesse Jackson would have agreed with you some decades ago... I suppose he later realized that the position wasn't as popular as he had hoped... so now he would probably just say you are racist for trying to supress a minority's "rights"

John

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[pjw]

God have mercy on the souls of these brutal murderers.



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[Anhelyna]

Speechless
:cry: :cry:

Lord have mercy




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[Michael the Iconographer]

How sad.

Where are the cries of "racism"?

Since the majority of N'Orleans evacuees are black, couldn't "Dr." Edwards' offer of free abortions be interpreted as his personal contribution to genocide?

Aren't a disproportionate percentage of aborted babies black?

Are you comparing abortion to the "Final Solution"?


citation for visitors to TAW: please read this: http://www.christianforums.com/t2454322-eastern-orthodox-and-the-ancient-ways-official-position-on-abortion.html#post20967385

[ufonium2]

Jesse Jackson would have agreed with you some decades ago... I suppose he later realized that the position wasn't as popular as he had hoped... so now he would probably just say you are racist for trying to supress a minority's "rights"


It's hard to believe he used to be very pro-life, considering his actions now. I heard once that Clinton and Gore used to be pro-life as well, until they were told that they couldn't compete on the national political stage as pro-life Democrats. Not sure if that's true, though.


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[countrymouse33ad]

Saddest thing is, this doctor may sincerely think he's doing something noble and charitable.

Lord have mercy.


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[Orthodox Andrew]

It's hard to believe he used to be very pro-life, considering his actions now. I heard once that Clinton and Gore used to be pro-life as well, until they were told that they couldn't compete on the national political stage as pro-life Democrats. Not sure if that's true, though.


citation for visitors to TAW: please read this: http://www.christianforums.com/t2454322-eastern-orthodox-and-the-ancient-ways-official-position-on-abortion.html#post20967385

I also heard that about Al Gore.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I also heard that about Al Gore.

I guess his "selling his soul" never paid off, because he was never elected president.

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[Kolya]

Thank you Thornygrace for making eoe's quotes from the Church Father's a sticky!
I was very impressed with his research.

[Akathist]

I was impressed too and I noticed MTI had one from the Didache and added that one as well. Visitors and guests do not understand our beliefs and why we don't debate about this. Hopefully this posting will serve multiple purposes.

[Maximus]

Are you comparing abortion to the "Final Solution"?


No, not really. I don't think genocide is really the purpose of the abortion rights crowd, at least, not of all of them, anyway.

I do think it is interesting that black liberal activists are quick to notice that a disproportionate number of blacks are executed or are on Death Row in this country, yet they seem to have missed an even more startling statistic when it comes to abortion.

It is difficult for me to understand the thinking of the Pro-Choice crowd. Even when I was an atheist I was Pro-Life.

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[OnTheWay]

It is difficult for me to understand the thinking of the Pro-Choice crowd. Even when I was an atheist I was Pro-Life.

From what I've seen at college for the feminist types it's purely a woman's power issue. Morality is a non-issue, it's about having more or fewer "rights" and thus more "power."

To the moderate "leftist" to Libertarian types it's an issue of what they view as government oppression. If the government tells you that you can't buy smack at 7-11 or have an aborition they're limiting "your rights." The life and death aspect is not considered and not welcome.

To the more revolting leftist types it's the old "if there are fewer people to feed life is better" propaganda. Most people if asked what they would do if they had 10 people to feed but only enough food for 7 would answer morally, they'd find a way to get enough to feed 10. These are the type that say they'd kill 4. Three because they had to and one for good measure.

For the "Man Show" type it's just an issue of having to pay child support or not having to pay child support.

In most respects the answer is fairly simple, they have simply come to devalue human life. As society has come to be more divorced from Christian beliefs it becomes more pagan. In all pagan soceities you had certain people whose lives meant something, the ruling classes. Then you had lot's of Plebs and slaves whose existence had no value.

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[Maximus]

From what I've seen at college for the feminist types it's purely a woman's power issue. Morality is a non-issue, it's about having more or fewer "rights" and thus more "power."


That has occurred to me, too.

What keeps women from full equality with men (in the thinking of these people)?

Their liability to become pregnant and bear children.

Remove that liability and - voila! - instant equality.

The Suicide Pill (birth control) is not enough, since it occasionally fails.

The matriarchalists need a failsafe, a doomsday weapon.

This they have found in that age old instrument of the devil: infanticide.
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