Gallatin's Thirsting for God

[MrJim]

Bud sent me this book (thanks again:thumbsup: ) and I finished reading it last night. Interesting stuff--one chapter in particular I have a question on is the "Formal Prayer".

Two things:

1. He mentions a prayer book that he does his praying from. What is this-what is it called, and is it set up on a daily format sort of thing?

2. He spoke about the problem with spontaneous prayers. I understood what he was saying and it made a lot of sense. But how do you intercede for specifics for others? I've seen Roman Catholic prayers that were set up in such a way that there was a place to insert the request--maybe EO is same way?

It was a good read. I reminded me of the many "Protestant/Evangelical to Roman Catholic" conversion books I have--lot of the stuff is the same.

Thanks
Jim

[gzt]

1. There are plenty, most having the same prayers, usually called some variation of "Orthodox Prayer Book". The best English version is published by Jordanville, usually it's referred to as the Jordanville Prayer Book. There is a section of "Morning Prayers" and a section for "Evening Prayers" or "Prayers before sleep" intended to be read through. There will be some minor variations depending on which prayer book you look at. The English text is available online, actually, at http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/prayerbook/main.htm , but most people don't like reading on the internet for anything other than quickly glancing at the material.

2. Yes. And I don't see anything wrong with spontaneous prayer in general, but it's nice to have forms to guide one's spontaneous prayers and it's best not to always pray spontaneously.

I really don't like conversion books much, they're pretty formulaic.

[MrJim]

1. There are plenty, most having the same prayers, usually called some variation of "Orthodox Prayer Book". The best English version is published by Jordanville, usually it's referred to as the Jordanville Prayer Book. There is a section of "Morning Prayers" and a section for "Evening Prayers" or "Prayers before sleep" intended to be read through. There will be some minor variations depending on which prayer book you look at. The English text is available online, actually, at http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/prayerbook/main.htm , but most people don't like reading on the internet for anything other than quickly glancing at the material.

2. Yes. And I don't see anything wrong with spontaneous prayer in general, but it's nice to have forms to guide one's spontaneous prayers and it's best not to always pray spontaneously.

I really don't like conversion books much, they're pretty formulaic.

Yeah, they can be, but it is interesting to see the path and find what I have in common and what I'd never considered. Take for example Gallatin's notice of the Reformation. He said (surely not the first but I'd never heard it before) that Luther & Calvin & Zwingli didn't call for a council to correct wrongs but just sort of took off on their own "leadings". Now the reason I'd have never thought to consider the council thing (considering the scriptural approach in the early church--the Jerusalem Council) is that in our American individualist society the individual is the hero. We don't need some council [committee] to solve this--I can do it--I know what God wants.

Anyhow, this was the first "Orthodox Conversion" I've read. Looking forward to checking out some others. The catholic books were pretty good too, especially the Hahn "Rome Sweet Home". But I tend to agree with the conciliar approach. Kinda sad how close you guys are with RC-if they could just see...well I'm not going there:doh:

[Akathist]

There are many different Prayer books available. Most Priests have one they prefer to give to inquirers. I started with the prayers in the back of the "Orthodox Study Bible" and then moved on to one from the local Romanian Monestary (in English).

It is good to start saying morning and evening prayers and if you find it hard to say all of them to at least make it a practice to say part of them ... but to do the prayers twice a day. This routine can be very very helpful.

But again, ask your Priest because this is a spriitual matter and one should follow the advice of their Priest on this matter.

[Theophorus]

I agree with his assesment of spontaneous prayer, and so does CS Lewis in the screwtape letters.
However we are to pray on our own, but some recomend the prayers of the Church to start to help us to pray for the right things. It was explained to me that the written prayers were composed by those who were "experts" at praying, and it would behoove anyone to take advantage of this gift.

[eoe]

If you are interested in books on prayer I suggest The Art of Prayer: An Orthodox Anthology (http://www.monasteryproducts.org/product_info.php?products_id=1347)which contains writings from Saint Theophan the Recluse and others on the subject. Saint Theophan is quickly becoming one of my favorites. Look here (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/theoph_prayer.aspx) for an example of his writing.

This (http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/prayers/prayers.html) is another prayer book for comparison to the one gzt posted.

[xenia]

I think I picked the Jordanville book because the print is the largest and I don't have to hold it up under my nose to read it.

[Anhelyna]

I have and use the Jordanville Prayer Book and also the Old Orthodox Prayer Book. TBH I prefer the language of the Old Orthodox Book.

[The Prokeimenon!]

I recommend the Antiochian "Little Red Prayer Book" called "A Pocket Prayer Book for Orthodox Christians."

Rdr Moses

[Oblio]

I have the JPB, and while I like it, there are parts of the translation that are phoenetically speaking, a disaster :( I also prefer some of the OCA festal troparia translations over theirs.

[ufonium2]

I have the JPB, and while I like it, there are parts of the translation that are phoenetically speaking, a disaster :( I also prefer some of the OCA festal troparia translations over theirs.

Really? My husband and I were just talking last night about how much we miss the ROCOR liturgical translations (not necessarily the JPB, but the Horologion) and how much more careful they seem than the Antiochian ones. This came about because I was complaining about the Nativity Troparion we'd been singing, how it had the words "Thee" and "the" back to back and the choir stumbled there every time (who could blame them?).

I've never spent much time with the OCA translations; our old OCA church still used ROCOR books, and now we go to an Antiochian parish. But my godfather does a lot of the OCA troparia settings, and he's pretty smart, so I'm sure they're good.

[Oblio]

I find some of the JPB translations clumsy, even if technically they may be more correct (no mixed thee's you's ...)

[Theophorus]

Really? My husband and I were just talking last night about how much we miss the ROCOR liturgical translations (not necessarily the JPB, but the Horologion) and how much more careful they seem than the Antiochian ones. This came about because I was complaining about the Nativity Troparion we'd been singing, how it had the words "Thee" and "the" back to back and the choir stumbled there every time (who could blame them?).

I've never spent much time with the OCA translations; our old OCA church still used ROCOR books, and now we go to an Antiochian parish. But my godfather does a lot of the OCA troparia settings, and he's pretty smart, so I'm sure they're good.

I have three translations from the Holy Transfiguration Monastery. A prayer book, the psalms, and recently received (for Christmas) The Great Horologion. I highly recommend all of them. The LXX Psalster in particular is a small treasure.

(I also have, The ladder of Divine Ascent by them also. I compared it to the edition by penguin, and again, it is nice work)

[MrJim]

Thanks everyone-I'll chase down some of these...