Keeping Kosher?

[Strand]

Greetings to all, my name is Strand and it is nice to meet you all.:wave:

Keeping Kosher! What does Torah say about eating meats with defect? Or with blood in it.? Is it to be cooked all the way with no blood on the plate / rare meat.? Is store bought meat kosher.? What is yall take on this?

[jgonz]

Keeping Kosher! What does Torah say about eating meats with defect? Or with blood in it.? Is it to be cooked all the way with no blood on the plate / rare meat.? Is store bought meat kosher.? What is yall take on this?

Hi there! Welcome to MJF. :)

My understanding (and I haven't re-read the food instructions lately so I feel rusty on this), is that meat/animals with defects were not acceptable for Sacrifice but ok to eat as long as they were slaughtered properly.

The animal was supposed to be slaughtered the way Scripture said, and the blood to be drained out. No one is to eat blood (fried blood is a popular dish in Mexico~ big no-no). There probably was/are specific instructions from the rabbis on cooking, but I can't recall them at the moment.

Store bought meat is definately Not kosher, unless you've bought your meat from a kosher meat market.

I, personally, am Biblically kosher so I don't follow all the Rabbinical additions to the food instructions. As long as the animal is on the clean list, it's ok to eat (although I refuse to buy meat from the grocery store, too many growth hormones and junk in it. I buy our meats from the health food store.)

[Wags]

Blood is a definate no-no. This prohibitiion is also repeated in Acts 15.

There is a great new book out called "Holy Cow" that covers biblical kosher. You can see more about this book and read excerpts from it here: http://holycownews.com/

[jgonz]

I Love Holy Cow! Excellent book! :thumbsup:

[stacie1872]

I thought that the New Covenant did away with all of the practices of the OT. Am i missing something here? :help:

Stacie

[CovenantRay]

Dear Stacie1872:

Thank you for your question. I think you are missing something, the first 2/3 of your bible. This may go against what you've learned, but check these things out:

1) Y'shua (Jesus) was born a Jew, lived a Jew all of his life, and died a Jew.

2) The scriptures at the time of Y'shua were all Old Testament scriptures.

3) In Matthew Chapter 5, Y'shua said (NASB):



17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.


18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.



The "Law" concerns the first 5 books of your bible, the Pentateuch, or books of Moses is what is spoken about. Please read these verses carefully and let them sink in.

4) The concept of G-d being eternal, not being a man that should lie (Numbers 23:19), and the same yesterday, today, and forever means that what was Truth still is Truth.

Therefore, if it was an abomination in the Old Testament, it would not, therefore, be OK with Y'shua to ignore.


Let me make this next point perfectly clear!

Salvation is by GRACE through FAITH in Y'shua, not through works of the Law, however we have been called to be HOLY (set apart for His people). The Old Testament teaches us how to be HOLY and to become what He would have us become.

To learn about G-d's dietary laws, see Leviticus chapter 11. If you read the "Holy Cow" book mentioned before, you'll probably be sold on the idea.

Regarding the dietary laws, if G-d loves His people, He would set out laws that would be best for them. I believe G-d loves His people.

Climbing off of the teaching platform now, there are others who'd be better to further explain this, if you're interested.

Yours in Y'shua,

CovenantRay :prayer:

[Bruce101]

I would like to add....
If we are disciples, then we are to copy the Master.
A true disciple emerses themselves in the ways , thought, and action of what his teacher, in this case, Yeshua, does.

Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

I don't eat pork, because Jesus, Yeshua did not eat it. He is my Master, I am his disciple.

[Devasha]

In addition to the passage in Matthew 5 that CovenantRay quoted, this one leaped out at me when I was studying these things out:
Isaiah 66:15-17

Reading and meditating on that as yet unfulfilled prophecy resulted in me losing all appetite for swine's flesh (and all other unclean animals), and I've been happily eating kosher ever since. :)

[visionary]

By observing kosher laws the observant Jew is compelled to control eating and food consumption, an activity which is most instinctive, at times compulsive, and often done with not much consideration.

Jews, however, comprise but a small fraction of the kosher consumer market in North America. The kosher industry in the United States is enormous and rapidly growing. Currently, upward of 10 million people in the American market acquire approximately sixty thousand kosher products, produced by nearly ten thousand companies. Only two million of the kosher consumers are Jewish. The other eight-plus million are people who choose to eat kosher for religious (Moslems), idealistic (Vegans and Vegetarians), and of course, health reasons.

[visionary]

Kosher stands for quality, purity, whole-someness and truth. It really means "fit for use". Dr. Myles Bader writes, "If you want healthy, clean-tasting chicken, buy kosher." Kosher chickens are submerged in ice-cold water for thirty minutes, salted to remove blood and rinsed three separate times to remove all the salt. Since 48% of food poisoning is caused by contaminated chicken, this process could literally be a life-saver.

Body and soul are intimately connected. Whatever happens to the soul is reflected in the body. And the food the body consumes has an impact on the soul. Just as some foods are healthy for the body, and others are harmful, so too the inner person, the soul, has foods that nourish it and foods that obstruct its growth.

The soul needs to breathe, to reconnect to its source—and the body is its only conduit. Eating kosher food helps ensure that the arteries of that spiritual connection are clear. The soul is able to shine through.

It doesn't stop there: Keeping kosher not only benefits your inner self. It touches the soul of the entire world. Because everything a person does is a way to infuse the world with spiritual light—including eating. When you eat food in a dignified way, and use the energy of that food for good things, the food itself becomes spiritual.

Looking for kosher items at the local grocery... here are some symbols to look for...http://www.mazornet.com/jewishcl/Kosher/kosherorgs.htm

[christinepro]

Obeying the dietary laws took a little time for me but I am getting better everyday. Anyone want some pork? I have some in my freezer that I don't want. Maybe I'll give it to the food bank. I have replaced pork bacon for turkey bacon and it's pretty good.

[Talmidah]

Obeying the dietary laws took a little time for me but I am getting better everyday. Anyone want some pork? I have some in my freezer that I don't want. Maybe I'll give it to the food bank. I have replaced pork bacon for turkey bacon and it's pretty good.

If your goal is to completely remove pork from your diet, you should check your package of turkey bacon. Most brands include pork casings and/or pork flavorings.

[christinepro]

If your goal is to completely remove pork from your diet, you should check your package of turkey bacon. Most brands include pork casings and/or pork flavorings. I noticed that. I found one that doesn't have it. I will look, when I get home, at the brand.

[stone]

If your goal is to completely remove pork from your diet, you should check your package of turkey bacon. Most brands include pork casings and/or pork flavorings.

Do you know which brands these are?

[stone]

The next time i go to the store i'm gonna look through all of them and note which ones may have pork added. :eek:

[Talmidah]

Do you know which brands these are?

Sorry, I don't. I do know Jennie-O has pork (although not the Extra Lean Turkey Bacon) and that Butterball brand contains pork fat in the flavoring, although it doesn't say so on the label. I buy meat only from kosher markets. But I found out about the pork casings and flavorings when my mom mentioned that she would buy some turkey bacon and turkey sausage for my kids. I looked them up online and discovered that most brands do contain some element of pork. If there is none, I would think that it will say it on the package. I'd be wary of any that simply mentions in the ingredients "natural flavorings" though.

[stone]

I guess i could just look in the phone book to find a kosher meat market in Austin.

[stone]

Has anyone here ever ordered kosher food online?

If you have, what do you think about it?

Is the delivery time good and the service?

[Talmidah]

I guess i could just look in the phone book to find a kosher meat market in Austin.

H-E-B Kosher Store - complete groceries and meat market
7025 Village Center Dr (This one includes a delicatessen, with eat-in or take out menus)
Austin, TX 78731
(512) 502-8459

1000 E 41st St
Austin, TX 78751
(512) 459-6513

[visionary]

Salmon Bacon - (Certified Kosher)

Smoked Salmon, Smoked with Applewood then wet brine cured with Molasses, Soy, Brown Sugar and other Natural Ingredients for a Sweet Maple finish.

Presliced - 4 oz. on boards - $6.25 / pack

Presliced - 8 oz. on boards - $12.50 / pack

Presliced - 16 oz. on boards - $25.00 / pack

http://www.peronafarms.com/salmon-order.html

Bacon is the **** of a pig, no I don’t find it appealing no matter how much you smack your lips.

[stone]

H-E-B Kosher Store - complete groceries and meat market
7025 Village Center Dr (This one includes a delicatessen, with eat-in or take out menus)
Austin, TX 78731
(512) 502-8459

1000 E 41st St
Austin, TX 78751
(512) 459-6513

:hug:

thank you , thank you , thank you, thank you

I never knew heb had kosher meat, :)

That 1st one is the largest grocery store in the Austin area, very nice. Just a couple miles from home.

[stone]

Salmon Bacon - (Certified Kosher)

Smoked Salmon, Smoked with Applewood then wet brine cured with Molasses, Soy, Brown Sugar and other Natural Ingredients for a Sweet Maple finish.

Presliced - 4 oz. on boards - $6.25 / pack

Presliced - 8 oz. on boards - $12.50 / pack

Presliced - 16 oz. on boards - $25.00 / pack

http://www.peronafarms.com/salmon-order.html

.

sounds yummy

[Talmidah]

thank you , thank you , thank you, thank you

I never knew heb had kosher meat,

That 1st one is the largest grocery store in the Austin area, very nice. Just a couple miles from home.

You're very welcome, stone!
From the Austin Chronicle:

A five-minute trip up to the Far West HEB will lead you to Austin's only full-service, in-store kosher meat market, where you will find not only a wide selection of deli meats but an entire range of freshly cut and prepared beef, poultry, lamb, and veal. ... Like Randalls, when HEB realized that there existed an unmet need in the city's growing Jewish population, the supermarket began planning to create a kosher store within a store. Teaming up with Rabbi Y. Levertov, the head of the Kosher Supervising Organization of Austin, who by this time was already supervising the Randalls bakery and locally owned Austinuts, the two created something that neither Austin, nor any city in the rest of Texas, had ever witnessed before: not only a fresh "glatt" kosher meat market, but a sit-down kosher deli that also sells kosher packaged and frozen goods, and kosher wines (wines and grape products must also be kosher).



And if it's the quality of the meats that keep Jewish and non-Jewish customers coming back, much of that is due to the hard work of Shmuel Kochman, the store's ace meat cutter and, along with Frank Brock, one of the store's two maschgichim. Mash what? (That's pronounced mash-gee-heem.) "Maschgiach" is the Hebrew word for supervisor. These two men, appointed by Rabbi Levertov, are trained to ensure that all aspects of food preparation at the store adhere to kosher regulations. But Kochman, in addition to his supervisory duties, is also responsible for the presentation of the meat in the display case. His deft skill at trimming shows off the real quality of the meats that are sold, which explains, in part, why store sales have consistently been going up. But fresh meats and deli food are only part of the store's success. Its kosher grocery section is the most extensive in the city. Tracy Cross prides himself at being able to offer kosher items that other stores might not carry -- like a wide variety of "pareve" or neutral foods, and upscale gourmet products, too.

[christinepro]

Salmon Bacon - (Certified Kosher)

Smoked Salmon, Smoked with Applewood then wet brine cured with Molasses, Soy, Brown Sugar and other Natural Ingredients for a Sweet Maple finish.

Presliced - 4 oz. on boards - $6.25 / pack

Presliced - 8 oz. on boards - $12.50 / pack

Presliced - 16 oz. on boards - $25.00 / pack

http://www.peronafarms.com/salmon-order.html

Bacon is the **** of a pig, no I don’t find it appealing no matter how much you smack your lips. Yum!! I like smoked salmon.

[BarbB]

You guys are soooo lucky!

I have a huge grocery list at kosher.com but haven't placed the order yet. I particularly want Israeli olives which I can't get here. Italian and Greek olives just aren't the same! :)

[Talmidah]

You guys are soooo lucky!

I have a huge grocery list at kosher.com but haven't placed the order yet. I particularly want Israeli olives which I can't get here. Italian and Greek olives just aren't the same! :)

newlamb,
Gave you tried contacting a synagogue in your area to find out where they buy their kosher foods?

[BarbB]

newlamb,
Gave you tried contacting a synagogue in your area to find out where they buy their kosher foods?

Wow, Erwin must be working his magic - it's sooooo slow.

Talmidah - what a wonderful idea. There's a couple of congregations about 20 min from me and I can phone them. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there's a market near them!

Still doesn't mean that I'm not envious! :D

[simchat_torah]

Salmon bacon? sounds good! mmmmm

[BarbB]

I had fried salmon in Anchorage Alaska and it was absolutely wonderful. The meat was sooooo sweet. :yum:

[Tishri1]

I thought that the New Covenant did away with all of the practices of the OT. Am i missing something here? :help:

StacieHi Stacie, if you make a list of a the scriptures that say these things are done away with , we would love to explain how that each one is a misunderstanding of the text(besides it keeps us on our toes) :wave:

[stacie1872]

I would suggest you read Galatians 3. All of it. Paul clearly addresses this matter to great great great length.
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming the curse for us."
"All who rely on observing the law are under a curse."
"The righteous will live by faith"
"What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added then because of transgressions until the Seed to who the promise referred had come"


Romans 7 1:6. 2 Corinthians 3:7

The NT repeatedly says that the New Covenant did away with the old. Which leads me to assume that the first 2/3 of your bible is the only part that you read. Today we are under the law of Christ, which you can read in Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21
Those who go back and try to keep the law of Moses and attempt "to be justified by the law....."have fallen from grace" and "are estranged from Christ".

I could quote scripture to you for the rest of the night regarding this. I seriously do not understand where you all are coming from on this one. Of course Christ kept the law. It wasn't until he had fulfilled scripture that the New Covenant came to be.

[stacie1872]

Furthermore,

Galatians 3
25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

[stacie1872]

Jeremiah 31

God promises to replace his covenant with Israel with a new one. Please read.

[stacie1872]

shall i go on, and on, and on, and on?

[stacie1872]

Colossians 2





13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. 16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

[jgonz]

Stacie, you're sadly mistaken. And you must not have read this post from above by Covenant_Ray:
1) Y'shua (Jesus) was born a Jew, lived a Jew all of his life, and died a Jew.

2) The scriptures at the time of Y'shua were all Old Testament scriptures.

3) In Matthew Chapter 5, Y'shua said (NASB):


http://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-top-left.gifQuotehttp://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-top-right.gifhttp://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-top-right-10.gif
Jesus Himself is Speaking Here:
17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.


18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

http://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-bot-left.gifhttp://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-bot-right.gif
The "Law" concerns the first 5 books of your bible, the Pentateuch, or books of Moses is what is spoken about. Please read these verses carefully and let them sink in.

4) The concept of G-d being eternal, not being a man that should lie (Numbers 23:19), and the same yesterday, today, and forever means that what was Truth still is Truth.

Therefore, if it was an abomination in the Old Testament, it would not, therefore, be OK with Y'shua to ignore.


Let me make this next point perfectly clear!

Salvation is by GRACE through FAITH in Y'shua, not through works of the Law, however we have been called to be HOLY (set apart for His people). The Old Testament teaches us how to be HOLY and to become what He would have us become.

To learn about G-d's dietary laws, see Leviticus chapter 11. If you read the "Holy Cow" book mentioned before, you'll probably be sold on the idea.

Regarding the dietary laws, if G-d loves His people, He would set out laws that would be best for them. I believe G-d loves His people.

Climbing off of the teaching platform now, there are others who'd be better to further explain this, if you're interested.

[jgonz]

Col.2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

You quoted this above Stacie... so why should you care one way or the other if we want to eat Biblically kosher? :scratch:

[stacie1872]

You quoted this above Stacie... so why should you care one way or the other if we want to eat Biblically kosher? :scratch:

I just asked an innocent question, and was accused of not "reading the first 2/3 of my bible". I honestly didn't know that Christians still followed some of the old laws, because i don't know any who do. I guess the thought just never crossed my mind. Didn't mean to get in to debate. My sincerest apologies if you thought that my question was some sort of attack on your beliefs.

[jgonz]

They're not "old laws". They are G-d's instructions for living a set apart lifestyle. And you did come across as trying to teach us something we didn't know with throwing all those Scriptures at us. No one was attacking you~ an observation was made trying to show you that the Whole, Entire Word of G-d can be and is followable today.

There are many reasons for eating Biblically kosher... pork and shellfish are Extremely unhealthy for one thing. I would recommend you look at Holy Cow! by Hope Egan, which can be found here: http://holycownews.com/ Very interesting stuff. :)

[P_G]

Mishpochah
FAMILY

Each man's observance is ultimately between him and Ha'Shem (Yall girls same thing)


Some will be very strict others not at all.

If one is led to be strictly observant do not look down on them for this is what Ha'Shem speaks to thier heart. Niether exault yourself over those who do not observe dietary laws at all. Trust me you have enough of your own things to work on.

having said that I kind of put a crimp in the families Lobster dinner tonight I fear!

PG

[BarbB]

...having said that I kind of put a crimp in the families Lobster dinner tonight I fear!

PG

Wow - lobster? Some Lunch Lady! All I get is PB&J! :D

Happy New Year, Pastor George and anyone else who's online! :hug:

[CovenantRay]

You quoted this above Stacie... so why should you care one way or the other if we want to eat Biblically kosher? :scratch:

I just asked an innocent question, and was accused of not "reading the first 2/3 of my bible". I honestly didn't know that Christians still followed some of the old laws, because i don't know any who do. I guess the thought just never crossed my mind. Didn't mean to get in to debate. My sincerest apologies if you thought that my question was some sort of attack on your beliefs.

Shalom:

I've communicated with Stacie via PM.

Thank you and happy New Year!

CovenantRay :prayer:

[Victrixa]

Wow, my husband and I have resisted the shrimp and pork leg stew (ragoût de pattes de porc) during New Year's dinner today.

Pork is a traditional dish in Quebec. I have resisted to eating pork for the last 3 weeks or so ever since I resignated myself to obeying G-d in His Torah. :)

I don't really care to be honest. It was just harder not eating shrimp. One has to admit, it tastes good! (G-d knows but it's so toxic, not good for our health).

Thank you L-rd! :bow:

[jgonz]

Hang in there Victrixa~ the longer you go Not eating it, the easier it gets. The thought of pork or shellfish now makes me seriously nauseous. :sick: ^_^

[visionary]

Hang in there Victrixa~ the longer you go Not eating it, the easier it gets. The thought of pork or shellfish now makes me seriously nauseous. :sick: ^_^Amein... It just isn't worth it to degress. The longer you are on the Lord's diet the more benefits you will see in your health and spiritual life. Some are just hard to explain, and just need to be experienced.

[talmidim]

Wow, my husband and I have resisted the shrimp and pork leg stew (ragoût de pattes de porc) during New Year's dinner today.

Pork is a traditional dish in Quebec. I have resisted to eating pork for the last 3 weeks or so ever since I resignated myself to obeying G-d in His Torah. :)

I don't really care to be honest. It was just harder not eating shrimp. One has to admit, it tastes good! (G-d knows but it's so toxic, not good for our health).

Thank you L-rd! :bow:
When I read all those things about the pig, its habits and its purpose in this world, it made abstaining from it's meat easy. What really did it for me with shrimp was when I found out what a close relation it was to the cockroach. Did you know that they can use the two interchangeably to test us for the allergens to the other? Ahhh shrimp! The cockroach of the sea.... :o :sick:

[Tishri1]

how many feel the desire to eat pork and shimp after being on the kosher diet ....and for those who are kosher, do you have feelings for pork and shrimp now, what are they?

[visionary]

how many feel the desire to eat pork and shimp after being on the kosher diet ....and for those who are kosher, do you have feelings for pork and shrimp now, what are they?I have no desire for anything unclean. I love my relationship with the Lord, the advantages of being healthy, and the spiritual contentment I receive from eating as the Lord has asked me to.

[Tishri1]

I would suggest you read Galatians 3. All of it. Paul clearly addresses this matter to great great great length.
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming the curse for us."
"All who rely on observing the law are under a curse."
"The righteous will live by faith"
"What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added then because of transgressions until the Seed to who the promise referred had come"


Galatians 1:6-7 6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. Galatians 1:14 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. you really must read ALL of Galations to see the context of what Paul was writing about...There was extreme persecution going on because of the teachings of Yeshua. He upheld the true Torah, and came into bold despute over the doctrines and traditions of man that spoiled the heart of the Torah, making it of no effect...Now Paul is opening his letter here by saying that there was TROUBLE following him around TOO....He was involved heavily with these traditions/man-made doctrines the whole time he was a pharasee, and knew what these trouble makers were up to...BUT he was not talking about the whole law, only the twisted alteration of the law, that began before Yeshua, and continued to cause friction even among the Believers in Galatia(thanks to a group of thorns in the flesh)

[Tishri1]

chapter 2... Galatians 2:3 3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.

This idea of a gentile being circumcised had to do solely with conversion to Judiasm and not the Torah of the First five books of Moses...this is a separate man made deal that a convert(who was brought into fellowship ONLY AFTER jumping through these man made hoops) had to go through a ritual circumcision(not the one babies had) in order to be acceptable for fellowship with the Jews

Galatians 2:4 4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage)...

Anti Missionary Types had snuck into Paul's group in fact they were every where trying to upset the believers and bring them back under submission to the Pharasees...and trying to convert the gentiles too


Galatians 2:7-8 7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised (a lable for gentiles)had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised(a lable for Jews and converted gentiles) was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),
Galatians 2:9 9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised(Jews).


Here Paul after going to see Peter had shown them that he was the one anointed to be a minister to the gentiles

Galatians 2:12 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. Galatians 2:13 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.


This was why Abba had given Peter the clear vision that Gentiles were not unclean....That supposed "uncleaness" was what caused ALL the false teaching in the first place....that someone had taught that all gentiles (even believing gentiles) were unclean and needed to CONVERT to judiasm to be acceptable for fellowship... Paul calls this group "the men of the CIRCUMCISION party", but what he really means is men who are holding to the tradition that ALL had to convert to Judiasm to be in fellowship with a Jew...

Galatians 2:15-16 15 "We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. Galatians 2:21 - 3:1 21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

"Works of the Law" is an idiom for all those man made rulings and tradions that excluded the gentiles from fellowship UNLESS they under go conversion(circumcision)

[christinepro]

Wow, my husband and I have resisted the shrimp and pork leg stew (ragoût de pattes de porc) during New Year's dinner today.

Pork is a traditional dish in Quebec. I have resisted to eating pork for the last 3 weeks or so ever since I resignated myself to obeying G-d in His Torah. :)

I don't really care to be honest. It was just harder not eating shrimp. One has to admit, it tastes good! (G-d knows but it's so toxic, not good for our health).

Thank you L-rd! :bow: I am French Canadian too and I made Tortiere (meat pie) with ground turkey and beef this year. It tasted almost like pork. The trukey made it lighter tasting..

[christinepro]

Hang in there Victrixa~ the longer you go Not eating it, the easier it gets. The thought of pork or shellfish now makes me seriously nauseous. :sick: ^_^ I guess it is a blessing that I'm allergic to shell fish.:clap: It sure makes things alot easier.

[P_G]

how many feel the desire to eat pork and shimp after being on the kosher diet ....and for those who are kosher, do you have feelings for pork and shrimp now, what are they?


Honestly Tish my biggest stumbling block is shell fish which I do love and the best thing I can do is stay away from where it is served for now because I know if I show up where it is easy to get (The all you can eat Chinese Buffet with the all you can eat crab legs is a Big Problem)

Pork was hard too but I really don't have a desire for it no more.

The FAMILY thing is a big problem! Now at home its not bad but I am on vacation now at my dad's house and no one gets it.

But I did good over new years I did not eat the shrimp and refused to cook them pork meat.

All in time I guess things get easier

PG

[Tishri1]

Chapter 3 Galatians 3:1-3 NKJ Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

They were not saved by conversion and not by the Law, they were saved by grace....the need to undergo any conversion process was ludicrise as the Law was not set in place to save anyone, only to show the way to Yeshua...the perfect sinless one


Galatians 3:6 6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." Galatians 3:8 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."(Word meaning "grafted in")


Galatians 3:10-15 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."


Here Paul is saying again only faith can save you, as the curse in evident in everyone's lives as all who are not saved (by faith) will fall by this curse, as all are shut up under sin, so that faith in Yeshua would be realised

11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them." 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Yeshua redeemed us from the curse(not from the law, as if there was something Bad about obeying God!

Galatians 3:17-19 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:21 - 4:1 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


Again Paul is showing us the curse of not having salvation through faith....as no one could go their whole life sinless and everyone would need a redeemer


25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

here is a good place to say the law has been abolished, but he doesn't say that...he says the tutor(the curse) that kept us in check, waiting for redemption is releasing us into Yeshua's care, no longer under the curse any more

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

back to the main point

there is no law nessessary for conversion, faith in Yeshua makes us brothers, not circumcision, or any law of God or Man...

[Tishri1]

Honestly Tish my biggest stumbling block is shell fish which I do love and the best thing I can do is stay away from where it is served for now because I know if I show up where it is easy to get (The all you can eat Chinese Buffet with the all you can eat crab legs is a Big Problem)

Pork was hard too but I really don't have a desire for it no more.

The FAMILY thing is a big problem! Now at home its not bad but I am on vacation now at my dad's house and no one gets it.

But I did good over new years I did not eat the shrimp and refused to cook them pork meat.

All in time I guess things get easier

PGyeh, we had a problem over the summer visiting relatives and dh's dad had nothing but pork in his house....the first night we succomed to the ribs, my kids felt sick, but we ate it like we use to eat our vegies as kids(hiding some in our napikins, dropping it on the floor for the dog, hiding it under our mash potatoes hehehe^_^ )and the next day we went shopping for a special meal I wanted to make for everyone and while we were at the store we just picked up a few more things: Turkey lunch meat (to replace the ham), turkey bacon and sausage, and ground chicken along with my chicken fillets for dinner that night of whick I bought 3x the amount I needed.;)

[Victrixa]

On New Year's Eve (Saturday), a friend invited us over to supper and there was this huge plate of ham sitting in front of me (to make ourselves a sandwich if we so wished). It did look inviting even though I find pig gross now! (French Canadian cultural habits, ya know!) Anyways, wanting to eat lightly (more like vegetarian for health reasons and because I knew I would eat a lot the next day - New Year's Day), I just ate her onion soup.

On New Year's Day (Sunday), there was this pork leg stew I mentioned earlier (that I used to love so much - typically traditionally French Canadian) and plates of shrimp! The hardest was to resist the shrimp but there was no way I was going to put unclean foods - which G-d forbade us to eat for our own good - in my mouth!

Wow... I'm becoming victorious! :thumbsup:

[Wags]

I admire those of you that are struggling with and being victorious over eating kosher. As a third generation vegetarian it is just not something I can relate to.

[BarbB]

....
Wow... I'm becoming victorious! :thumbsup:

Just like your name! :hug:

[BarbB]

I admire those of you that are struggling with and being victorious over eating kosher. As a third generation vegetarian it is just not something I can relate to.

Vegetarians can have such beautiful children? :D :hug:

[P_G]

Well what I have done here on vacation is I am doing all the cooking now!

yesterday beef
Today Chicken
Tommorow beef again.


Now this meat is probably not glatt Kosher but got to be a whole lot better than say pork chop sandwiches :)

PG

[Victrixa]

Just like your name! :hug:

Yeah! :clap:

What's so wonderful on top of that is that my husband is also being convinced by the L-rd to go biblically kosher. He has resisted the ham, pork leg stew and shrimps also and G-d knows how he was fond especially of pork leg stews and shrimps! He's going Messianic too. He wants to celebrate Passover and is interested by all the Jewish holidays too. We're getting there! :clap:

G-d is doing amazing things in our hearts and souls! :D

[visionary]

Amazing... May you spiritual journey continue to be blessed with the Lord's presence. May the wisdom and understanding you gain be a blessing to those around you. May we all come together for the great wedding supper and rejoice with Him who made this all possible.

[jgonz]

Amazing... May you spiritual journey continue to be blessed with the Lord's presence. May the wisdom and understanding you gain be a blessing to those around you. May we all come together for the great wedding supper and rejoice with Him who made this all possible.


:amen: !!!

[Ivy]

You have to watch out for prepared pie shells.....they are frequently prepared with lard. (As are refried beans, many times.) This little ditty I found out recently in conjunction with an interfaith & Jewish event that was going on and people were supposed to bring pie, so they had to give people a caution about pie shells.

I was privy to an interesting discussion awhile ago in which someone proposed that not eating blood is binding on every believer, whether Jew or Gentile.....first of all, because of the ruling of the Jerusalem Council in which they stipulated to "abstain from sexual immorality and from blood"; and second of all, because it's stated in the Noahide laws also, to abstain from blood.

Though other interpretations I have heard say that abstaining from blood means to abstain from murder.

[jgonz]

I was privy to an interesting discussion awhile ago in which someone proposed that not eating blood is binding on every believer, whether Jew or Gentile.....first of all, because of the ruling of the Jerusalem Council in which they stipulated to "abstain from sexual immorality and from blood"; and second of all, because it's stated in the Noahide laws also, to abstain from blood.

The ruling of the Jerusalem Council was purely to give Gentile Believers the basics so they could get into the synagogues and learn of Torah. It wasn't meant to "free" anyone of G-d's instructions.

I don't believe the Noahide laws are the ony laws Gentile Believers should follow. If we're grafted in/adopted in to Israel through faith in Messiah, then we should be following ALL G-d's Torah (through faith) just like the sojourners were told to by G-d (Ex. 12:49 is one place this is stated).

[P_G]

You have to watch out for prepared pie shells.....they are frequently prepared with lard. (As are refried beans, many times.) This little ditty I found out recently in conjunction with an interfaith & Jewish event that was going on and people were supposed to bring pie, so they had to give people a caution about pie shells.


I have it on great authority from one of G-ds messangers on earth My Wife Miss Bonnie

That if I eat refried beans in ANY form kosher or not that I will be cut off from the bedroom and dwell in the kingdom of the garage all the nights of my life!

Now I am not sure where she found that in the Bible but I am totally sure she means business with this so I have determined that

As For me and my house we shall not eat refried beans


:D

PG

[Mary_Magdalene]

I never was a real big ham eater anyway. but now, even to look at its pink flesh...eeeewww... :sick:

i did give in to temptation about 6 months ago and ate a shrimp from a shrimp cocktail-then as i chewed it, the texture was so nasty to me-then i thought about all the garbage that had been "recycled' thru the shrimp and it took all of my strength to swallow that thing... that was the last shrimp i ate.

once in awhile i will get a hankerin for some alfredo and linguine with crab meat--i saw a Red Lobster ad the other day and was tempted. And sometimes for some crunchy, well done bacon.

i need to get off this thread-im getting hungry for things im not supposed to eat (started the Maker's Diet again today).

[jgonz]

As For me and my house we shall not eat refried beans

^_^ ^_^ ^_^

My DH is Mex/Am. so we Have to have refried beans every so often. I get the Vegetarian variety... but that doesn't help with the Other department, if you know what I mean. :doh: :P

[Ivy]

That if I eat refried beans in ANY form kosher or not that I will be cut off from the bedroom and dwell in the kingdom of the garage all the nights of my life!


:D

PG

:D :D Hah hah!
I think I must have issued an edict like that to my dh one time -- and I think chili was included in that, too. (Pee-yew!)

[Tishri1]

As For me and my house we shall not eat refried beans


:D

PG^_^ tell your lovely spouse that one spoon full of mustard with the first bite of beans will exorsize every foul spirit from your body and her house^_^

[Ivy]

^_^ tell your lovely spouse that one spoon full of mustard with the first bite of beans will exorsize every foul spirit from your body and her house^_^

Some people use Bean-o. Isn't that a funny name, Beano? ;) I should have had a certain person try it.

[P_G]

I have taken this advice to my wife

She says


N O


Thus sayeth the wife

PG

[Tishri1]

I have taken this advice to my wife

She says


N O


Thus sayeth the wife

PGrofl:D:D

[visionary]

Parsley tea is suppose to do the same trick. I like yogurt though.

[Ivy]

Does anyone here observe the separation of milk and meat? I haven't met any Messianics yet who do; most I have met abstain from pork and shellfish or are in the process of coming off pork and shellfish.

Did you see in the Scriptures that eating locusts is permissible? :sorry: yum yum Stir fry 'em with a little garlic and ginger, says I. (But don't invite me over for dinner.) :D

[jgonz]

Does anyone here observe the separation of milk and meat?
I see that as a Rabbinical fence law... Understandable, but not mandatory.

A New Age acquaintance of mine told me that the body digests meat and milk very differently so there Is a health reason for not mixing them. At any rate, I haven't been convicted to observe this. :)

[Wags]

Does anyone here observe the separation of milk and meat?

If I didn't have a vegetarian household we would observe that seperation. Some of dh's family do so, and we would do it out of respect for them so that they could eat at our house.

We do keep seperate dishes for Passover use only.

[Tishri1]

If I didn't have a vegetarian household we would observe that seperation. Some of dh's family do so, and we would do it out of respect for them so that they could eat at our house.

We do keep seperate dishes for Passover use only.we would too:groupray: if we knew some Jews were coming for supper:wave:

[Ivy]

If I didn't have a vegetarian household we would observe that seperation. Some of dh's family do so, and we would do it out of respect for them so that they could eat at our house.

We do keep seperate dishes for Passover use only.

I was acquainted with a rabbi who was a vegetarian, and he had chosen to be a vegetarian partly because he felt like the meat and milk separation was......well, he said "meshoggne," I guess he felt like it was quite involved. But then again, other people say if you've been raised that way and are used to it, it's not a big deal.

I used to be a vegetarian years ago and really enjoyed it; I always felt like my digestion was better.....the only problem was that I love beefsteak unbelievably.

Which leads me to another question, do people here observe the prohibition on eating blood? If you do, do you feel like it would be sufficient to give the meat a good rinse in cold water, or would you rather get it from a kosher butcher? Some people feel that the prohibition on blood applies to Jews and Gentile believers alike.

[Victrixa]

One fun thing I learned too is that my (Pentecostal) pastor and his wife have a kosher-leaning diet. His wife told me that she read 'The Maker's Diet' and that they no longer eat pork and shellfish. Wow, I was so happy, impressed and hopeful. Messianic material? ;) Wouldn't that be cool? A Messianic Pentecostal Church? :thumbsup: Please pray for my pastor and his wife... there's hope through them to bring Messianism in this rural Quebec town!

(I told them that the L-rd showed me to become biblically kosher and that's when the discussions started on the L-rd's diet... :D )

[Wags]

we would too:groupray: if we knew some Jews were coming for supper:wave:

If you only did it when you had guests - then some would/could not eat with you. Since it is an all day, every day thing for most that following the keeping of two sets of dishes.

Which leads me to another question, do people here observe the prohibition on eating blood? If you do, do you feel like it would be sufficient to give the meat a good rinse in cold water, or would you rather get it from a kosher butcher? Some people feel that the prohibition on blood applies to Jews and Gentile believers alike.

The prohibition against blood is for all believers - see Acts 15

[DiddyDon]

I would suggest you read Galatians 3. All of it. Paul clearly addresses this matter to great great great length.
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming the curse for us."
"All who rely on observing the law are under a curse."
"The righteous will live by faith"
"What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added then because of transgressions until the Seed to who the promise referred had come"

Happy birthday Stacie.

Gal 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
KJV
Are we no longer male nor female?

[DiddyDon]

On New Year's Eve (Saturday), a friend invited us over to supper and there was this huge plate of ham sitting in front of me (to make ourselves a sandwich if we so wished). It did look inviting even though I find pig gross now! (French Canadian cultural habits, ya know!) Anyways, wanting to eat lightly (more like vegetarian for health reasons and because I knew I would eat a lot the next day - New Year's Day), I just ate her onion soup.

On New Year's Day (Sunday), there was this pork leg stew I mentioned earlier (that I used to love so much - typically traditionally French Canadian) and plates of shrimp! The hardest was to resist the shrimp but there was no way I was going to put unclean foods - which G-d forbade us to eat for our own good - in my mouth!

Wow... I'm becoming victorious! :thumbsup:

Happy Birthday Vixtrixa.

Doesn't the Bible teach to not offend our brothers and sisters with meat? i.e. setting a big pig leg on the table.

[DiddyDon]

Is it strange that people want to eat pork tasting non pork foods? i.e. bacon, ham.

[DiddyDon]

What fish are edible? Catfish is a bottom feeder.

[Tishri1]

If you only did it when you had guests - then some would/could not eat with you. Since it is an all day, every day thing for most that following the keeping of two sets of dishes.



The prohibition against blood is for all believers - see Acts 15:scratch:yeh I guess it would be hard but for my guests I would give it a good try...

[CovenantRay]

What fish are edible? Catfish is a bottom feeder.

The basic requirements are:



Lev 11:9 "'These you may eat of all that are in the waters: whatever has fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, that you may eat.

Lev 11:10 All that don't have fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of all the living creatures that are in the waters, they are an abomination to you,

Lev 11:11 and you detest them. You shall not eat of their flesh, and you shall detest their carcasses.

Lev 11:12 Whatever has no fins nor scales in the waters, that is an abomination to you.



Crustacians - no scales
Shellfish - no scales, no fins
Catfish - no scales
Sharks - no scales
eels - no scales

etc....

CovenantRay :prayer:

[Talmidah]

:scratch:yeh I guess it would be hard but for my guests I would give it a good try...

Hi Tishri,
You are very sweet and considerate to try to be accomodating to your guests. You need to remember though that many who keep a stricter level of observance would not be able to eat more than uncooked vegetables at your home. I keep strict kosher and I know that there are people who wouldn't come if I invited them. But the best thing to do if you had someone who keeps kosher accept your invitation to dinner would be to serve them on nice disposable plates.

[Ivy]

If you only did it when you had guests - then some would/could not eat with you. Since it is an all day, every day thing for most that following the keeping of two sets of dishes.



The prohibition against blood is for all believers - see Acts 15

As I was dismayed to hear a couple years ago :cry: Wah! Goodbye, gravy. It's not "meat juice," it's blood ;)

Is there a good link someone knows of on abstaining from blood, the hows and wherefores of doing that the best way? Maybe some alternative gravy recipes?

[DiddyDon]

Is there a meat flavored soy powder that you can make gravy from?

[visionary]

Ingredients:
1/2 cup vegetable oil
3-6 cloves of garlic, squashed and minced very well
2-3 slices of yellow onion, chopped
1/2 cup all-purpose white flour
4 teaspoons nutritional yeast or turmeric
4 tablespoons low- or reduced-sodium soy sauce
2 cups water
1/2 teaspoon sage
1/4 teaspoon ground black pepper
1/2 teaspoon salt
5 or 6 white mushrooms, sliced (optional)
extra flour or cornstarch (optional)

Method:
Measure the vegetable oil into a small saucepan. Cook the garlic and onion in it for about two minutes on medium or medium-low heat, until the onion is a bit tender and translucent.

Add the flour, yeast, and soy sauce to make a paste. Add the water gradually, stirring constantly. Bring the gravy to a boil on medium to medium-high heat, stirring constantly -- the gravy has to boil for it to thicken. (Grandma always told me to cook gravy for a full five minutes at a boil to make sure you kill the bugs in the flour, but I don't always bother.) Add pepper. Stir in the sliced mushrooms, if desired. Add salt, if desired.

If the gravy is too thin for your taste, add one or two tablespoons of flour or small amounts of cornstarch to thicken it and add home-made-looking lumps. Use a wire whisk to eliminate lumps.

[Wags]

Is there a meat flavored soy powder that you can make gravy from?


McKays "chicken style" seasoning (http://www.leafoflifevitamins.com/products/7549.html) or "beef style" seasoning makes an excellent broth and gravy base.

G Washington broth (http://www.mybrandsinc.com/ShopOnline/Catalog.asp?t=6&s=G&ss=GWAS&p=2683) (http://www.mybrandsinc.com/ShopOnline/Catalog.asp?t=6&s=G&ss=GWAS&p=2683)is also a good and comes in a couple of flavors. Plus it is certified kosher.

(The above links are just to show you what the product looks like.)

By the way Adventist Book Centers are often a good source of kosher (vegetarian) products, since they do keep biblical kosher.

And of course for tradtional kosher groceries there are:
http://www.mykoshermarket.com/
http://manischewitz.netgrocer.com
http://www.kosher.com/index.cfm

[DiddyDon]

Beside the look of the grain of kosher salt, is it different? Why is it kosher?

[DiddyDon]

What is your opinion on the vision of Paul being told to eat unclean? Is it referring to not judging people only?

[Talmidah]

Beside the look of the grain of kosher salt, is it different? Why is it kosher?

All salt is kosher. Kosher salt is so named because it is used in kashering meat. Kosher meat is soaked and salted. Because of its large size, it is not absorbed by the meat.

[DiddyDon]

They might remove my Christian faith icon. I will try to get back here when I can.

[Strand]

What is your opinion on the vision of Paul being told to eat unclean? Is it referring to not judging people only?



Did you mean the vision Peter had ? Acts 10:1-30

[visionary]

Did you mean the vision Peter had ? Acts 10:1-30The Complete Jewish Bible

Acts 10: 1 - 48 - Study This Chapter

1 There was a man in Caesarea named Cornelius, a Roman army officer in what was called the Italian Regiment. 2 He was a devout man, a "God-fearer," as was his whole household; he gave generously to help the Jewish poor and prayed regularly to God. 3 One afternoon around three o'clock he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius!" 4 Cornelius stared at the angel, terrified. "What is it, sir?" he asked. "Your prayers," replied the angel, "and your acts of charity have gone up into God's presence, so that he has you on his mind. 5 Now send some men to Yafo to bring back a man named Shim'on, also called Kefa. 6 He's staying with Shim'on the leather-tanner, who has a house by the sea." 7 As the angel that had spoken to him went away, Cornelius called two of his household slaves and one of his military aides, who was a godly man; 8 he explained everything to them and sent them to Yafo.

9 The next day about noon, while they were still on their way and approaching the city, Kefa went up onto the roof of the house to pray. 10 He began to feel hungry and wanted something to eat; but while they were preparing the meal, he fell into a trance 11 in which he saw heaven opened, and something that looked like a large sheet being lowered to the ground by its four corners. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals, crawling creatures and wild birds. 13 Then a voice came to him, "Get up, Kefa, slaughter and eat!" 14 But Kefa said, "No, sir! Absolutely not! I have never eaten food that was unclean or treif." 15 The voice spoke to him a second time: "Stop treating as unclean what God has made clean." 16 This happened three times, and then the sheet was immediately taken back up into heaven. 17 Kefa was still puzzling over the meaning of the vision he had seen, when the men Cornelius had sent, having inquired for Shim'on's house, stood at the gate 18 and called out to ask if the Shim'on known as Kefa was staying there.

19 While Kefa's mind was still on the vision, the Spirit said, "Three men are looking for you. 20 Get up, go downstairs, and have no misgivings about going with them, because I myself have sent them." 21 So Kefa went down and said to the men, "You were looking for me? Here I am. What brings you here?" 22 They answered, "Cornelius. He's a Roman army officer, an upright man and a God-fearer, a man highly regarded by the whole Jewish nation; and he was told by a holy angel to have you come to his house and listen to what you have to say." 23 So Kefa invited them to be his guests. The next day, he got up and went with them, accompanied by some of the brothers from Yafo; 24 and he arrived at Caesarea the day after that. Cornelius was expecting them - he had already called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Kefa entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell prostrate at his feet. 26 But Kefa pulled him to his feet and said, "Stand up! I myself am just a man." 27 As he talked with him, Kefa went inside and found many people gathered. 28 He said to them, "You are well aware that for a man who is a Jew to have close association with someone who belongs to another people, or to come and visit him, is something that just isn't done. But God has shown me not to call any person common or unclean; 29 so when I was summoned, I came without raising any questions. Tell me, then, why did you send for me?" 30 Cornelius answered, "Three days ago around this time, I was at minchah prayers in my house, when suddenly a man in shining clothes stood in front of me 31 and said, 'God has heard your prayer and remembered your acts of charity. 32 Now send to Yafo and ask for Shim'on, known as Kefa; he is staying in the house of Shim'on, a leather-tanner, by the sea.' 33 So I sent for you immediately, and you have been kind enough to come. Now all of us are here in the presence of God to hear everything the Lord has ordered you to say."

34 Then Kefa addressed them: "I now understand that God does not play favorites, 35 but that whoever fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him, no matter what people he belongs to. 36 "Here is the message that he sent to the sons of Isra'el announcing shalom through Yeshua the Messiah, who is Lord of everything. 37 You know what has been going on throughout Y'hudah, starting from the Galil after the immersion that Yochanan proclaimed; 38 how God anointed Yeshua from Natzeret with the Ruach HaKodesh and with power; how Yeshua went about doing good and healing all the people oppressed by the Adversary, because God was with him. 39 "As for us, we are witnesses of everything he did, both in the Judean countryside 40 but and in Yerushalayim. They did away with him by hanging him on a stake;God raised him up on the third day and let him be seen, 41 not by all the people, but by witnesses God had previously chosen, that is, by us, who ate and drank with him after he had risen again from the dead. 42 "Then he commanded us to proclaim and attest to the Jewish people that this man has been appointed by God to judge the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets bear witness to him, that everyone who puts his trust in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

44 Kefa was still saying these things when the Ruach HaKodesh fell on all who were hearing the message. 45 All the believers from the Circumcision faction who had accompanied Kefa were amazed that the gift of the Ruach HaKodesh was also being poured out 46 on the Goyim, for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Kefa's response was, 47 "Is anyone prepared to prohibit these people from being immersed in water? After all, they have received the Ruach HaKodesh, just as we did." 48 And he ordered that they be immersed in the name of Yeshua the Messiah. Then they asked Kefa to stay on with them for a few days.

[Tishri1]

Hi Tishri,
You are very sweet and considerate to try to be accomodating to your guests. You need to remember though that many who keep a stricter level of observance would not be able to eat more than uncooked vegetables at your home. I keep strict kosher and I know that there are people who wouldn't come if I invited them. But the best thing to do if you had someone who keeps kosher accept your invitation to dinner would be to serve them on nice disposable plates.You mean my everyday dishes(we use paper all the time)hehehe^_^

[Tishri1]

They might remove my Christian faith icon. I will try to get back here when I can.:confused:where r ya going?

[DiddyDon]

To the backside of the desert.

[Tishri1]

To the backside of the desert.whare's that?:wave:

[DiddyDon]

To the "All members section". I won't be able to post on the Christian section. It's because I don't believe in the trinity even though I believe everything else about Christianity. They won't allow me to call myself a Christian in this forum.

[Yovel]

The Complete Jewish Bible

Acts 10: 1 - 48 - Study This Chapter

1 There was a man in Caesarea named Cornelius, a Roman army officer in what was called the Italian Regiment. 2 He was a devout man, a "God-fearer," as was his whole household; he gave generously to help the Jewish poor and prayed regularly to God. 3 One afternoon around three o'clock he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius!" 4 Cornelius stared at the angel, terrified. "What is it, sir?" he asked. "Your prayers," replied the angel, "and your acts of charity have gone up into God's presence, so that he has you on his mind. 5 Now send some men to Yafo to bring back a man named Shim'on, also called Kefa. 6 He's staying with Shim'on the leather-tanner, who has a house by the sea." 7 As the angel that had spoken to him went away, Cornelius called two of his household slaves and one of his military aides, who was a godly man; 8 he explained everything to them and sent them to Yafo.

9 The next day about noon, while they were still on their way and approaching the city, Kefa went up onto the roof of the house to pray. 10 He began to feel hungry and wanted something to eat; but while they were preparing the meal, he fell into a trance 11 in which he saw heaven opened, and something that looked like a large sheet being lowered to the ground by its four corners. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals, crawling creatures and wild birds. 13 Then a voice came to him, "Get up, Kefa, slaughter and eat!" 14 But Kefa said, "No, sir! Absolutely not! I have never eaten food that was unclean or treif." 15 The voice spoke to him a second time: "Stop treating as unclean what God has made clean." 16 This happened three times, and then the sheet was immediately taken back up into heaven. 17 Kefa was still puzzling over the meaning of the vision he had seen, when the men Cornelius had sent, having inquired for Shim'on's house, stood at the gate 18 and called out to ask if the Shim'on known as Kefa was staying there.

19 While Kefa's mind was still on the vision, the Spirit said, "Three men are looking for you. 20 Get up, go downstairs, and have no misgivings about going with them, because I myself have sent them." 21 So Kefa went down and said to the men, "You were looking for me? Here I am. What brings you here?" 22 They answered, "Cornelius. He's a Roman army officer, an upright man and a God-fearer, a man highly regarded by the whole Jewish nation; and he was told by a holy angel to have you come to his house and listen to what you have to say." 23 So Kefa invited them to be his guests. The next day, he got up and went with them, accompanied by some of the brothers from Yafo; 24 and he arrived at Caesarea the day after that. Cornelius was expecting them - he had already called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Kefa entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell prostrate at his feet. 26 But Kefa pulled him to his feet and said, "Stand up! I myself am just a man." 27 As he talked with him, Kefa went inside and found many people gathered. 28 He said to them, "You are well aware that for a man who is a Jew to have close association with someone who belongs to another people, or to come and visit him, is something that just isn't done. But God has shown me not to call any person common or unclean; 29 so when I was summoned, I came without raising any questions. Tell me, then, why did you send for me?" 30 Cornelius answered, "Three days ago around this time, I was at minchah prayers in my house, when suddenly a man in shining clothes stood in front of me 31 and said, 'God has heard your prayer and remembered your acts of charity. 32 Now send to Yafo and ask for Shim'on, known as Kefa; he is staying in the house of Shim'on, a leather-tanner, by the sea.' 33 So I sent for you immediately, and you have been kind enough to come. Now all of us are here in the presence of God to hear everything the Lord has ordered you to say."

34 Then Kefa addressed them: "I now understand that God does not play favorites, 35 but that whoever fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him, no matter what people he belongs to. 36 "Here is the message that he sent to the sons of Isra'el announcing shalom through Yeshua the Messiah, who is Lord of everything. 37 You know what has been going on throughout Y'hudah, starting from the Galil after the immersion that Yochanan proclaimed; 38 how God anointed Yeshua from Natzeret with the Ruach HaKodesh and with power; how Yeshua went about doing good and healing all the people oppressed by the Adversary, because God was with him. 39 "As for us, we are witnesses of everything he did, both in the Judean countryside 40 but and in Yerushalayim. They did away with him by hanging him on a stake;God raised him up on the third day and let him be seen, 41 not by all the people, but by witnesses God had previously chosen, that is, by us, who ate and drank with him after he had risen again from the dead. 42 "Then he commanded us to proclaim and attest to the Jewish people that this man has been appointed by God to judge the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets bear witness to him, that everyone who puts his trust in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

44 Kefa was still saying these things when the Ruach HaKodesh fell on all who were hearing the message. 45 All the believers from the Circumcision faction who had accompanied Kefa were amazed that the gift of the Ruach HaKodesh was also being poured out 46 on the Goyim, for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Kefa's response was, 47 "Is anyone prepared to prohibit these people from being immersed in water? After all, they have received the Ruach HaKodesh, just as we did." 48 And he ordered that they be immersed in the name of Yeshua the Messiah. Then they asked Kefa to stay on with them for a few days.Most Chritians think that the dream Peter had meant that G-d did away with eating Kosher. But they don't read the rest of Acts 10, and see that G-d was allowing the Gentiles to partake in Salvation too. :bow: :bow:

[Tishri1]

Most Chritians think that the dream Peter had meant that G-d did away with eating Kosher. But they don't read the rest of Acts 10, and see that G-d was allowing the Gentiles to partake in Salvation too. :bow: :bow:salvation and fellowship too:wave:

[DiddyDon]

Just a metaphore then eh?

I do believe that the Apostles and other Jewish converts continued to be kosher and held the Sabbaths. I forgot where all this was going. Oh well.
Is there an English Bible translated from the Hebrew and Aramaic language? I saw one online but I don't know if the translator was Jewish. Too many translation get muddied with modern theoligical ideas.

[Torah]

DiddyDon
What is your opinion on the vision of Paul being told to eat unclean? Is it referring to not judging people only?


KOSHER FOOD

What is food that is Kosher? And doesn’t the NT teach that ALL things are food.

What is “FOOD”? The Strong’s Concordance says food is “Something eatable”

Strong's Lexicon {Hebrew} 396 'akiylah ak-ee-law' feminine from 398 (http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=hebrewlexicon&isindex=398); something eatable, i.e. food:--meat.

SO! Is everything eatable / food?

What does “G-d” call food? Leviticus 11:1

1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: [Or, call food]

Read all of chapter Lev 11 to see what G-d calls “FOOD. As we can see G-d does say some things may be eaten and something may not be eaten. But the argument is made that the NT has done away with what G-d says we can’t eat. Or does it?

Acts 10: 1-30, we read that Cornelius [a Gentile], who feared G-d, did tzedakah [give to the poor] and prayed 3 times a day (9, 12, 3). These are all Jewish attribute.

1At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. 3One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, "Cornelius!"

4Cornelius stared at him in fear. "What is it, Lord?" he asked.

The angel answered, "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. 5Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter. 6He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea."

7When the angel who spoke to him had gone, Cornelius called two of his servants and a devout soldier who was one of his attendants. 8He told them everything that had happened and sent them to Joppa.

Peter's Vision

9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."

14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon's house was and stopped at the gate. 18They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

19While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, "Simon, three men are looking for you. 20So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them."

21Peter went down and said to the men, "I'm the one you're looking for. Why have you come?"

22The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to have you come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say." 23Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.

The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa went along. 24The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26But Peter made him get up. "Stand up," he said, "I am only a man myself."

27Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. 29So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?"

30Cornelius answered: "Four days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me

This story is used to say that G-d changed his mind about eating impure or unclean things.

1} After all “three” times Peter never did kill and eat.

2}The sheet come down three times telling Peter not to call anything impure that God has made clean. There were “three”Gentile’s that come to the house.

3} in verse 17 Peter is “wondering” about the meaning of the vision. If it is so clear that this portion of scripture is to say G-d changed his mind about eating things that G-d did not call food. Why is Peter wondering / uncertain about it.

1won·der - a : rapt attention or astonishment at something awesomely mysterious or new to one's experience b : a feeling of doubt or uncertainty

But G-d clears it up For Peter in verse 28. “God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean.” G-d did not change his mind about what he call’s food.

[myways]

Romans 14:20

All food is clean...

It doesn't get any clearer than that guys.
Also, from the larger context, Acts 15 is a story of the apostles deciding guidelines for gentile Christians to get along with Jewish Christians in a strongly Jewish culture. It is not them deciding what guidelines from the Law should still be observed and which should not. Furthermore, Paul went along with the ruling of the Jerusalem Council to promote Christian unity in accordance to the principal he would later lay out in the above refrence of Romans 14.

Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.Rom 14:14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.Rom 14:15 For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.

So these three verses explain why the ruling was given to the gentile believers: It was the only way that the gentile believers could be sure to keep from offending those having the weaker faith.



In my opinion, to keep kosher for reasons other than for health or nostalgia is at best dangerously close to legalism.

Dave Davis

[CovenantRay]

Hello Mr. Dave Davis:

Have you read this entire thread? I know it would take quite a while. At the risk of sounding that I've got the corner on the Truth, please read response # 6 of this thread as a response to another responder.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2450645-keeping-kosher.html

Respectfully, I would ask you to consider my points.

Your responses must either be in fellowship or to ask questions or you're in violation of the rules of this forum. You're welcome to PM me, if you like. I'm not a MOD and I'm not offended. Them's just the rules[SIC].

To summarize, in my opinion, the whole bible is unified. The Old Testament has types and shadows of the New Testament. G-d is eternal, therefore he's the same, yesterday, today, and forever. The New Testament makes clearer what He intended for us, but never contradicts. An exogesis done with a first century Hebrew context will make sense, and will bear out the points made by many in this thread.

As a post script, I would like to make plain that I was a bit overly emphatic with the bit about missing the first 2/3 of the Bible to Stacie in my response, #6, and have clarified this with her via PM - I did not wish to imply anything negative.

Please read, study, meditate, pray, and let the Holy Spirit show you the fruit of what is being presented here.

In Love, being fruitful, and building up bretheren,

CovenantRay :prayer:

[Torah]

All “FOOD” is clean! AMEN, right on, and yes. The problem is who declares what is “FOOD”. The Greeks say if you can eat it, then its food. G-d says this is what you are to call food. Leviticus 11:1 “The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat:” [Or, call “food”]



What is “FOOD”? The Strong’s Concordance says food is “Something eatable”

Strong's Lexicon {Hebrew} 396 'akiylah ak-ee-law' feminine from 398 (http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=hebrewlexicon&isindex=398); something eatable, i.e. food:--meat.

SO! Is everything eatable / food?

What does “G-d” call food? Leviticus 11:1

1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: [Or, call food]

Read all of chapter Lev 11 to see what G-d calls “FOOD. As we can see G-d does say some things may be eaten and something may not be eaten. But the argument is made that the NT has done away with what G-d says we can’t eat. Or does it?



Acts 15: 28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from“food”sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

If it is not in the list then it is not even called “FOOD”. And we should not eat things that are not on the list, or not called food, because G-d said so [.]

Romans 14

The Weak and the Strong brother [Vegetarian V meat eaters.]

1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special does so to the Lord. He, who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' " 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

In verse 2,& 6 Is the root of Romans 14: 1-22. This letter is speaking of Vegetarian V meat eaters.

In verse 1 it says “disputable matters”. Eating things that is not called “food” would “NOT” have been a disputable matter. It would have been wrong and no dispute would have been made. But! Someone who eats kosher meat [food] telling someone who eats only vegetables [food] That it is wrong, is a “disputable matters”. In other words stop judging each other for being a Vegetarian or meat eater, it’s all “FOOD” [Kosher] so let’s get along.

[Torah]

It’s “all” good



Have you ever notice how one word jumps out at you? . I remember a, word puzzle game that used the word if 12 times in a short poem. But when you read the poem I could only see the word if, 6 times. To find all 12 if’, one must stop and study what they are reading.
God’s word is the same way. We read verses like Matthew 5: 17.
And think the word fulfill means do away with. When in fact the word abolish means to do away with. And as we can see Jesus did not come to abolish.


"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Meaning of the word Law: (Torah= teaching).
Strong’s Concordance
Law: Torah = Teaching
Page 123, 8451 Torah: from 3384
Page 52, 3384 Yarah Teaching, Inform, Point out, (as if by aiming)- [sin missing that mark]
The law is to teach, point us to, and aim us at. A way to live a Godley life. A Holy- (separate) life from the world.
The meaning of the word fulfill is. (Bring to actuality: meet a requirement).
In other words Jesus is the reality and has meet all the necessary condition’s to teach us how to live a Godly life from the Law by his actions.
Meaning of the word abolish is: (to do away with; put an end to.)
(All word definition comes from the Holt Dictionary)


When it comes to what we call food. We have the same thinking.
We say it’s all good! We skip over key words. Lets take 1 Tim 4: 3-5. We must understand what God call’s food. And what the Roman called food.


1 Tim 4: 3-5 they forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain [1] foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth?
For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is
[2] consecrated (holy) by the word of God and prayer.

([1] What animals did God create to be used as food?)
God did not; create all animals to be called food. Lev 11:1-47
The LORD said… 'Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: (call food.) If it is not on the list it is not even called food.





([2] What food is made consecrated (holy) by the word of G-d?)
Lev 11: 44 I am the LORD your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves about on the ground.

1 Tim 4: 3-5 is a warning. At the end of time some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits. They forbid people to marry. And not to eat kosher food that God created.

Peters Vision is a very good example of miss reading key word.
This scripture is about a Gentile named Cornelius. He and all his family were God-fearing; Gentiles. Who believed in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He gave generously to those in need (giving to the poor is a Jewish commandment) and prayed to God regularly. (Jewish prayer is at 9:00 in the morning, 12:00noon, 3:00 in the afternoon.) One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. The angel of God told Cornelius to send for Peter who was staying at Simon the tanner.


[acts 10: 7] “Cornelius called two of his servants and a devout soldier who was one of his attendants”.
Three Gentiles went to Simon home.
Acts 10: 9-17
About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray.
Peter saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.
It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air.
Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."
The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."
This happened three times, (Three Gentiles went to Simon home)
This scripture is misread to say, “God say’s! It is actable to eat things that: God has not called food.”
While Peter was [wondering] about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon's house was and stopped at the gate.
If it is so clear that Peter’s vision is about eating unclean animals. Why is Peter wondering about the meaning of the vision? By the way! Peter NEVER did kill and eat the impure or unclean animals.
Peter knows what animals God call’s food. And he knows that these things are not to even be called food. BUT!

God makes clear the meaning of the vision.
Acts 10: 28 He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean.
This is why there were three Gentiles that went to Simon home.
And Peter’s vision happens three times. It was not about eating things that God did not call food. It was about not excepting Gentiles in, because they are not Jewish.
(Jewish belief is that Messiah would come to the Jew only. If a gentile wanted part of the Messiah [have salvation] he had to go through the ritual of being circumcised first.)
Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism. But accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.
Do what is right? (The law teaches us what is RIGHT and what is wrong.
It’s up to us to follow it.) Shalom.

[Ivy]

Visionary and Wags, thank you so much for the gravy help :)

I inadvertently clicked on MyKosherMarket (I was really trying to print the post), and it seemed to answer another of my questions, which was--would it be eating blood to use the broth that drips from the turkey/roast etc. as it's roasting in the oven?

There was a toothsome recipe on the front page in which they used the pan juices (and a jigger of wine, too ;) ), so that seemed to indicate, no it wouldn't be eating blood. Though I assume the turkey/beef/chicken would have had to be slaughtered in the kosher fashion for that to be true.

Most Chritians think that the dream Peter had meant that G-d did away with eating Kosher. But they don't read the rest of Acts 10, and see that G-d was allowing the Gentiles to partake in Salvation too. :bow: :bow:

Unfortunately, this attitude is a rather common one. I've seen Jewish believers patiently enduring silly remarks from Christians about their keeping kosher, ham sandwich jokes etc. etc. Like you, I believe that Kefa's vision was a parable meant to illustrate the salvation-eligibility of Gentiles, not a cancellation of what God had previously directed the Jewish people to do.

Romans 14 was of course written to a mixed congregation, both Jew and Gentile, and it seems the intent is that neither should get in a place of pride about their respective eating habits.

[myways]

covenant ray,

thanks for being gentle.
I apologize for posting in such an intrusive way. I did read the entire thread before I gave my first post, and thinking back on it my post reads like the interjection of an outsider into an intimate discussion. Kinda like a stranger at a restaraunt listening in on a private conversation and then scoffing audibly in the backround.
But ultimatly, you all seem to be really convinced in your own minds and are eating/not eating to the L-rd which I admire, because it takes alot--sometimes--of sacrifice to keep it up. And that, G-d loves!
So, I repent of my arrogance, and I hope that I can contribute to this thread and edify you guys as I have been in reading it.

thanks,
Dave

[visionary]

covenant ray,

thanks for being gentle.
I apologize for posting in such an intrusive way. I did read the entire thread before I gave my first post, and thinking back on it my post reads like the interjection of an outsider into an intimate discussion. Kinda like a stranger at a restaraunt listening in on a private conversation and then scoffing audibly in the backround.
But ultimatly, you all seem to be really convinced in your own minds and are eating/not eating to the L-rd which I admire, because it takes alot--sometimes--of sacrifice to keep it up. And that, G-d loves!
So, I repent of my arrogance, and I hope that I can contribute to this thread and edify you guys as I have been in reading it.

thanks,
DaveBless your heart. You are truly a one in a million who walk hujmbly before the Lord. :bow: May God continue to walk with you as you journey through the changes in your life that co-inside with what the Lord wants you to be.