Man has a "hole in his Heart" ???

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, All

This past Lord's day my Pastor, said that all men are born with a hole in thier heart that is a "holy" hole in that it can only be filled by God. People try to fill it with all kinds of things, ie: drugs, booze and a like.

Have any of you heard of such a teaching?? What is the basis in Scripture for such a view??

Peace to u,

Bill

[Joykins]

There's a hole in my heart that can only be filled by you...

I think this was a popular song when I was in college.

All I can think of is Augustine's "Thou hast made us for Thyself, O Lord, and the heart of man is restless until it finds its rest in Thee."

[HumbleMan]

Good Day, All

This past Lord's day my Pastor, said that all men are born with a hole in thier heart that is a "holy" hole in that it can only be filled by God. People try to fill it with all kinds of things, ie: drugs, booze and a like.

Have any of you heard of such a teaching?? What is the basis in Scripture for such a view??

Peace to u,

Bill

I hope he wasn't talking about a literal, physical hole in your heart.

I don't know of any scriptures off the top of my head, but I can see where he was going. Basically, we are not complete until Christ fills us, even though we try to find "fulfillment" in drugs, alcohol, sex, whatever.

[BBAS 64]

There's a hole in my heart that can only be filled by you...

I think this was a popular song when I was in college.

All I can think of is Augustine's "Thou hast made us for Thyself, O Lord, and the heart of man is restless until it finds its rest in Thee."

Good Day, Joykins

Say it is not so a Baptist learning from Augustine :eek: ^_^

He "Augustine" started the roman catholic church don't ya know :doh:

Would you happen to have the source for this quote?

Peace to u,

Bill

[BBAS 64]

I hope he wasn't talking about a literal, physical hole in your heart.

I don't know of any scriptures off the top of my head, but I can see where he was going. Basically, we are not complete until Christ fills us, even though we try to find "fulfillment" in drugs, alcohol, sex, whatever.

Good Day, Humbleman

I do not think it was physical....

I hope he was not teaching with out some basis of Scripture.... as I am a sola Scriptura Baptist.


Peace to u,

Bill

[Flynmonkie]

I believe he was preaching from a psychological bent. We are taught to train our minds.

Many try to fill their "cups" with people, places, things.. Nothing is fulfilling such as the fullness we have with Christ.

I believe it is an analogy to help others grasp a psychological/spiritual concept.

May God supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Jesus Christ. Phil 4:19


Romans 8:32
32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?Psalm 34:10
10The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the LORD shall not want any good thing.
v38-39
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

James 1:17
17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Lam 3:21-26

21This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope.

22It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

23They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

24The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.

25The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.

26It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD.

Mal 3:10
10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Psalm 50:7, 10-11
Haggai 2:8
Dan 2:5-11
Dan 2:20-22
and others.. I can add to this later

Note: Added Verses..

Matthew 6:33
33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Ephesians 3:19-20
19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

John 10:1
Hebrews 13:5
Phil 4:11-14
1 Peter 1:6-9
John 14:6
1 John 5:1
James 1:4

(Core verses)
Romans 8:28
1 THess 5:18
Jmaes 1:2-3
Hebrews 12:10-11
Matthew 22:37-40
1 Timothy 1:5
1 John 4:11-12

[Joykins]

Good Day, Joykins

Say it is not so a Baptist learning from Augustine :eek: ^_^

Say I'm not a Baptist ;) I do have an Anabaptist background with a smidgen of Baptist, which is why I'm here.

He "Augustine" started the roman catholic church don't ya know :doh:

I've learned a lot from Catholics.


Would you happen to have the source for this quote?


It's from the _Confessions_ (which I studied in a secular university comparative literature class with a good Irish Catholic professor).

[Mea Culpa]

Good Day, All

This past Lord's day my Pastor, said that all men are born with a hole in thier heart that is a "holy" hole in that it can only be filled by God. People try to fill it with all kinds of things, ie: drugs, booze and a like.

Have any of you heard of such a teaching?? What is the basis in Scripture for such a view??

Peace to u,

Bill

Hi Bill!

To be honest, I don't think that there is a direct, exact quote in the word of God about this.

However, I have heard something similar. The soul is the mind will and emotions. the sprit of man is cut off from God (which is in the bible) and can only be repaired by the life, death, and ressurection of Christ.

The "hole" is the Spirit of God". Adam and Eve were made with it, the hole being the constant communcation between Man's spirit and God's spirit. When we fell, we lost the communication between God and man. Thus the "hole" that you describe is basically just the absense of God and the desire of man to naturally need that need filled. So people often fill it with drugs or booze, or other gods.

It is a wierd way to teach it, but as you can see, I have heard it before. Basically all you described is the absense of God from the human heart, from the soul. That communication cannot be restored unless your life is in Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells within.
PAX

[Flynmonkie]

Hi Bill!

To be honest, I don't think that there is a direct, exact quote in the word of God about this.

However, I have heard something similar. The soul is the mind will and emotions. the sprit of man is cut off from God (which is in the bible) and can only be repaired by the life, death, and ressurection of Christ.

The "hole" is the Spirit of God". Adam and Eve were made with it, the hole being the constant communcation between Man's spirit and God's spirit. When we fell, we lost the communication between God and man. Thus the "hole" that you describe is basically just the absense of God and the desire of man to naturally need that need filled. So people often fill it with drugs or booze, or other gods.

It is a wierd way to teach it, but as you can see, I have heard it before. Basically all you described is the absense of God from the human heart, from the soul. That communication cannot be restored unless your life is in Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells within.
PAX

So people that DO have faith, and are Christians working out their "own" salvation you believe do not have God in their hearts? Or could the pastor possibly be teaching Christians another aspect of what God wants from them?

No I do not believe it has anything to do with not having God in your heart, as opposed to learning to train our thoughts, learning to have faith in ALL things. This cannot be assumed overnight because we are "saved".

The soul spirit and mind are not cut off from God in this manner. This has nothing to do with learning to fill our cups, the emptiness in our heart, and our unmet needs with God rather than worldly things. Nothing will work.

And since when does the hole in our heart which should represent us forgetting to give faith where faith is due labeled as the Holy Spirit?

[Dmckay]

Good Day, Joykins

Say it is not so a Baptist learning from Augustine :eek: ^_^

He "Augustine" started the roman catholic church don't ya know :doh:

Would you happen to have the source for this quote?

Peace to u,

Bill
BBAS 64,

Hi, it's been a while since we have "spoken." Joykins is correct Augustine did make this statement, or one so close as to be negligiable to argue about. However, there are variations on the theme that have been around for a bit longer. I am sure that I have read similar statements in the writing of some of the ante-Nicean fathers. In any case, since we know that Romans says that no man seeks after G-d on their own, to say that there is a God shaped hole in man's heart that is not satisfied until they come to salvation is not technically correct.

There may be a desire for some kind of spiritual enlightenment, which explains the growth of the cults and interest in Eastern mysticism, but I don't think that we can accurately say there is a G-d shaped desire in the heart of man. I find that most people I try and witness to put themselves through all manner of gyrations to avoid having to make a decision one way or another regarding Jesus.

You are correct, there is a great deal of garbage in the writings of Augustine, but at the same time there is a great deal of what he says that was some of the best theological work done at the time. That is the key. There wasn't a great deal of systematic study and writing on theology at the time. Many of the ana-baptist groups from which our roots as Baptists spring, were guilty of errors theologically. Does that mean that all Baptists are thus heretics?

Biblical theological study, historically shows us that many doctrines weren't formalized until a study was done of the particular doctrine in order to clarify and defeat error. For example the Synod of Dort was designed to deal with the heresy of Pelagianism as it had reemerged under the teaching of Jacob Arminius.

[azzy]

I think thats a figure of speach.


The bible calls us vessels,and the Temple of the Holy Spirit,so,it makes sense to be called empty if we dont have Gods Spirit dwelling within us,or if we dont have any living water within us,like an empty well,or an empty house.

We are the temple of the living God.

[MatthewPoole]

^_^ :eek: :)

[arunma]

Say it is not so a Baptist learning from Augustine :eek: ^_^

He "Augustine" started the roman catholic church don't ya know :doh:

Oh, I don't know about that. Saint Augustine's writings influenced Martin Luther. You could say that Augustine prepared the seminal theology for the Protestant Reformation. My pastor has even done a biography on him. So I would strongly suggest that all Baptists read the works of Saint Augustine. In fact, I wish that Baptists would be more inclined to read the works of all of the church fathers. Christianity had a rich tradition even before 1500. Why should we let the Roman Catholics hold a monopoly on it?

[Ragamuffins]

Have any of you heard of such a teaching??
Yeah but it is usually one of those cheesy TBN shows. "There is a God shapped hole in yer heart that only He can fill... "

[arunma]

Yeah but it is usually one of those cheesy TBN shows. "There is a God shapped hole in yer heart that only He can fill... "

Eeww, TBN? Keep it away, lest it defile me!

[Ragamuffins]

Eeww, TBN? Keep it away, lest it defile me!
I hear ya :)

[BBAS 64]

Oh, I don't know about that. Saint Augustine's writings influenced Martin Luther. You could say that Augustine prepared the seminal theology for the Protestant Reformation. My pastor has even done a biography on him. So I would strongly suggest that all Baptists read the works of Saint Augustine. In fact, I wish that Baptists would be more inclined to read the works of all of the church fathers. Christianity had a rich tradition even before 1500. Why should we let the Roman Catholics hold a monopoly on it?

Good Day, Arunma

:thumbsup: :amen:

I agree, my I was being wise in that post. The sad fact is I would be surpized if my pastor has even read 2 pages of what Augustine wrote on any subject.

Peace to u,

Bill

[BBAS 64]

Yeah but it is usually one of those cheesy TBN shows. "There is a God shapped hole in yer heart that only He can fill... "

Good Day, Ragamuffin

Hope you are well.

All I can say is TBN: :sick: :sick: :cry:

Peace to u,

Bill

[Joykins]

In terms of scripture, this was the first to occur to me

Psalm 42:1-11

[Flynmonkie]

I found this online.. it seems a similar sermon..
http://rhm.gospelcom.net/awwy/view.php?id=4734

Something is fishy here and I still feel this is a mixing of apples and oranges. I cannot put my finger on it yet but I believe we are all born with the ability to seek after God, I believe only because God gives all this ability. (He calls all, not all will come)

So I am not too fond of the pastor’s statement for this reason. However, even as Christians in our spiritual walk we sometimes forget that God fills all need, or missing pieces. But we have to let Him. SO this is another aspect of the thought.

Think of it this way, if we were born with a "hole" in our heart and equate this with a "lack of God" generally - we wouldn't know it was a hole now would we? How could we know something is wrong if somehow this were not brought to our attention in some way? We simply would not know it. :scratch:

[CandleLightSky]

I would say the whole thing about the god shaped hole in one's heart has no biblical basis and is really absurd to begin with. It assumes that everyone is really looking or is aware of their need for a savior...I can say in truth that I've met lots of folks that just don't care. People don't know what they need and tend to be going anywhere but Christ, most people have no idea they need any kind of saving and figure they are fine on their own.

[Flynmonkie]

That is sort of my point!

[Joykins]

I would say the whole thing about the god shaped hole in one's heart has no biblical basis and is really absurd to begin with. It assumes that everyone is really looking or is aware of their need for a savior...I can say in truth that I've met lots of folks that just don't care. People don't know what they need and tend to be going anywhere but Christ, most people have no idea they need any kind of saving and figure they are fine on their own.

Having a need or desire and being aware of or acknowledging that need or desire are 2 different things, I agree. People can play all kinds of denial games.

I do think the idea that there is a part of us that desires communion with God above all things is scriptural in nature-- after all, this is the Edenic state (communion with God) that we were made for.

[Ragamuffins]

Good Day, Ragamuffin

Hope you are well.

All I can say is TBN:

Peace to u,

Bill
Bill, :)

I am doing fine and hope you are the same as well.

TBN as bad as it is is not even half as bad as the Day Star network. Yikes. Just imagine all day Copeland and Dollar clones...

Peace as well with you !

Uncle Bud

[MrJim]

"God shaped vacuum" is how I always heard it.

Don't know where it came from-just another cutesy saying I suppose...

[jochanaan]

[QUOTE=Flynmonkie]I found this online.. it seems a similar sermon..
http://rhm.gospelcom.net/awwy/view.php?id=4734 [/QUOTE (http://rhm.gospelcom.net/awwy/view.php?id=4734 [/QUOTE)]
Here's another version, probably older, from my own denomination's magazine: http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org/images/7DB/PDF/Dec%202005.pdf . Scroll down to page 7. I was personally acquainted with this author, John Conrod, as fine a Christian man as you could ever hope to meet.

[arunma]

If nothing else, at least I've found a couple of fellow TBN-haters on this thread. Although I do have to admit that the "Greatest Heroes and Legends of the Bible" cartoon is their one show with some semblance of redeeming merit.

[Flynmonkie]

[QUOTE=Flynmonkie]I found this online.. it seems a similar sermon..
http://rhm.gospelcom.net/awwy/view.php?id=4734 [/QUOTE (http://rhm.gospelcom.net/awwy/view.php?id=4734 [/QUOTE)]
Here's another version, probably older, from my own denomination's magazine: http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org/images/7DB/PDF/Dec%202005.pdf . Scroll down to page 7. I was personally acquainted with this author, John Conrod, as fine a Christian man as you could ever hope to meet.
Yes, I have no problems with the analogy I guess, as long as it is not saying that we are born "without" God. God is there, He never leaves us - it is up to us to acknowledge Him. I think for the *most* part when I hear this saying - that is what people are trying to share about. But if this pastor is claiming something else with this statement I guess that is where I am confused. There is nothing Biblical about "hole in the heart" or the absence of God when we are born -- unless it is an analogy to understand the lack or want and need in our life that is unfulfilled. The verses I posted were to help support that train of thought. Make any sense?

[jochanaan]

Yes, I have no problems with the analogy I guess, as long as it is not saying that we are born "without" God. God is there, He never leaves us - it is up to us to acknowledge Him. I think for the *most* part when I hear this saying - that is what people are trying to share about. But if this pastor is claiming something else with this statement I guess that is where I am confused. There is nothing Biblical about "hole in the heart" or the absence of God when we are born -- unless it is an analogy to understand the lack or want and need in our life that is unfulfilled.
I can't speak to the sermon you found because I didn't take time to read it; but in the article I linked to, there was no hint that God is not present for every human throughout their lives. (I just reread it to make sure.:) ) No, the "hole" metaphor isn't in the Bible, but it's as good a metaphor as any for the emptiness at the center when we refuse to allow God into our lives.

[Flynmonkie]

Oh-No I wasn't speaking of the sermons posted but from what BBAS experienced in the original post:

This past Lord's day my Pastor, said that all men are born with a hole in thier heart that is a "holy" hole in that it can only be filled by God. People try to fill it with all kinds of things, ie: drugs, booze and a like.

Have any of you heard of such a teaching?? What is the basis in Scripture for such a view??


Initially I took it to mean the analogy that you and I think of - but actually with the thought being phrased like this (I did not catch right away) it sounded fishy.(sorry if my confusion confused you!) ;)

[jochanaan]

(sorry if my confusion confused you!) ;)
No problem! As we know, it's not just what we say, but how we say it.:eek: :D