FOR CONVERTS--What Was Your First Divine Liturgy Like?

[ephraimanesti]

DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST,

On another Tread re the influence of books on our Orthodox walk, Maximus stated: "The Divine Liturgy did much much more for me than any book ever could, though" which got me to thinking about the first Divine Liturgy i attended and how confused and somewhat intimidated i was by it.
i was hooked, immediately, by the beauty of the Chanting and i was also greatly impressed with the reverence with which Our Lord's Body and Blood was administered, in comparison to what i had observed of the Roman Church's habit of just casually flipping Communion wafers into peoples' mouths), but the rest was a confused blur which caused me to do a lot of reading between my first Divine Liturgy and going back for the second one.
Soooooooo . . . i was wondering what it was like for others--did you pick up on all that was going on instinctively at once, did understanding come naturally after a couple times, did you research the Liturgy in books, talk to the Priest, etc.? What was your process of growth in understanding and acceptance.

IN CHRIST'S LOVE,
ephraimanesti

[gzt]

I was quite glad there were no guitars and I figured I would catch on with time.

[InnerPhyre]

I found it a little hard to follow but I thought it was beautiful and much more reverant than the rock masses I was used to.

[eoe]

I dunno.. It was all greek to me!
HA HA HA HA HA

ok.... that was bad.

Here is the post I made after my first liturgy:
The wife and I went to our first liturgy today. After the catechism class we found a spot near the back of the nave and tried to look inconspicuous.

My first impression was one of reverence. There was an atmosphere of reverence that was almost tangible. Instead of 1000 conversations all going on at the same time there was a kind of peace that hung over the entire room.
The choir was near angelic. Although I did not understand half of what they sang, the singing enanced the atmosphere greatly. The position of the choir actually focuses your attention forward instead of on them.
You guys really were not kidding about the standing thing were you? Not only is the service long but the Stand/Sit ratio is inverted compared to a Methodist or Baptist service.
Children were everywhere! IT was wonderful to see children in the congregation actually being children. There was no sense of "Quit that right now Johnny!" The kids were kids and it was ok. Makes me feel much better about bringing my own children next time (thanks to Grandad for watching them this time.)

This was a very positive experience even through the "Am I supposed to cross myse...oh.. wait... they are already done... no wait they are doing it again...." moments. I suppose it takes a while before you have any idea of what if happening. My wife also enjoyed the service and has gotten over her initial apprehension (They *CHANT*?) and is not opposed to going again! Massive weight off my chest there.

To anyone that is apprehensive about going to the Liturgy - just go. It is worth the drive. It is well worth spending 2+ hours on your feet. Just go.


And here is a link to a post I made (http://www.christianforums.com/t2201331-it-is-better-out-in-the-cold.html)(as my alter ego e=mv^2 who is now long dead) at the time I had realized that the Eastern Orthodox Church is the one that Jesus set up in September of 33.

[jckstraw72]

I said to myself "that was way too Catholic. Im never going there again". This was before I had a clue what Orthodoxy was though.

[ephraimanesti]

I dunno.. It was all greek to me!
HA HA HA HA HA

ok.... that was bad.

Here is the post I made after my first liturgy:


And here is a link to a post I made (http://www.christianforums.com/t2201331-it-is-better-out-in-the-cold.html)(as my alter ego e=mv^2 who is now long dead) at the time I had realized that the Eastern Orthodox Church is the one that Jesus set up in September of 33.

MY DEAR BROTHER EOE,

What a descriptive writing talent you have! Thank you for sharing both the old and the new Posts. i wish i had been less self-conscious and less intimidated and more observant as you were. :eek: (i did, however, do pretty good at staying on task with the Signs of the Cross at the appropriate times--until i noticed that everyone else was doing it backwards.)

MAY YOU BE BLESSED!
ephraimanesti

[Happy Orthodox]

Great thread, Ephraim!

It's hard to believe, but I don't remember my first Liturgy! Me and my mom converted together, and we were so excited about the faith, the truth, God, the ultimate purpose of life, that we didn't even notice external things, but just focused on what we felt (we felt most sweet and warm grace of the Lord!). Maybe that was also because we are Russians, and we were used to the candles, icons, the sign of the Cross, and so it didn't feel wierd to us. I guess we loved it, or just accepted it with love as a part of the true faith, and we loved to be a part of the true Church.

[ufonium2]

I got censed in the face! It was a small church, and I decided to stand in the very back so as to stay out of the way. I didn't realize I was in the "censing zone," and the priest obviously wasn't expecting me to be standing there. He tried to dodge me at the last second, but to no avail.

Aside from that, it was great. I didn't miss a Sunday from then on, so I guess you could say I never looked back. Of course, if I'd looked back I would've seen praise bands and crazy theology, so there was no temptation ;)

[Wiffey]

It was really beautiful and reverent, even if I didn't understand most of it. One thing I liked was that it seemed to combine the best of the Catholic & Jewish traditions I was raised with....parts of it reminded me of mass and parts of it reminded me of the synagogue. I finally felt a fusion of the 2 sides of my background coming together, and it was familiar even if it was alien (if that doesn't sound nuts).

[RobNJ]

Well, I knew what the inside would look like (pics on the website). I walk in.. the chanting is going on, the smell of incense is thick in the air. People are walking up to the front, venerating icons & lighting candles- I'm ducking into a back row pew. ;)

Then the DL actually starts! The choir is about 10-12 people & sounds like fifty. There's NOTHING that resembles a service book, or a program with the "order of worship" in it, so I just stand back & let the sights, smells & sounds wash over me! There are enough people I can see out of the corner of my eye (including a monk), so that I know when to cross myself..right direction, got the fingers in the wrong postion:doh: ( I also, wasn't expecting to have the priest kiss me, while working his way up the aisle during "The Peace")

There was a feeling of reverence, there was a feeling of being in the presence of God, there was a feeling of being HOME.. that I'd never felt in worship before, and never wanted to worship away from again!

[xristos.anesti]

"We knew not whether we were on Heaven or on earth!"
The Russian Visitors to Hagia Sofia - On the Divine Liturgy of the Greeks, X century.


There is so much truth in that statement, not just profoundly simbolical truth but truth of real terms.

Divine Liturgy of the Orthodox Church is "where horizon of Heavens meets the rocky desert of our planet, where Living Water meets our dry and thirsty soul" (St. Nikolaj Velimirović).

In a moment, a blink of an eye one realises why it is called DIVINE Liturgy.

The best icecream in the world, the kindest parent, the touch of love, the taste of paradise - the feeling of everything that one can hope for - but even more - it is the presence of God and His Heavenly troops, the communion of Saints, the Divine Liturgy.

Can it be said that one can fall in love with a Service - a Common Work of the People?

Well, I did.



Many years.

[Kolya]

I said to myself "that was way too Catholic. Im never going there again". This was before I had a clue what Orthodoxy was though.
That was basically my first reaction too.:) But my wife wanted to learn Russian, so I had to drive her there again many times. It was only two years later that I actually started investigating what it was all about. In DL, I did not have a clue as to what was going on. It was a mission church in a house and there were no service books and it was all in Slavonic.

There you go, it shows what the Holy Spirit can eventally do.;)

[BabyLutheran]

It was weird to me the first time. People standing around in a small room, full of icons, overpowering smell of incense, strange but haunting music, the priest chanting the whole service, prayers being recited from memory or a book with no one bowing their heads, no one in the congregation participating in the responses (just the choir sang), too ritualistic feeling. Despite all of this strangeness, I felt compelled to go back and try again. Being a nondenominational person, it really freaked me out the first time because it is a Christian service, but it might as well have been another religion for all I knew. Then I started researching it and discovered that this was the way the apostles worshipped, and that was enough for me. My wife however is another story. I will be lucky if she ever attends again.

I just can't believe all of the other converts so far thought it was really a great thing the first time they went. You have got to admit that the service is very strange if you are a typical American protestant and are not used to it.

[Anhelyna]

My very first DL ??

Wow - well that goes back a bit I have to admit - and there is a preamble.

OK I had heard about the Eastern Churches - I had seen Icons - and somehow something had drawn me to them - and I couldn't say what :(

My Husband had spent 7 weeks in Lourdes helping with disabled folks and came home and told me about this little Church there - so on our next visit to France he took me there to see it.

Well - 5 golden domes each surmounted by a gold cross !! This I had to investigate - and I did - a tiny wee Church - no pews just benches round the walls , a wee table with an Icon on and candles behind it , a Cross there too , and an ICONOSTASIS .

I was lucky - it was Saturday and a wee lady was 'Housekeeping" so in my very best French [ :D] I asked what time Liturgy would be the next day - and was answered in English !! - 10am

Sunday - I got there about 9.45 went in - and the Priest was behind the Iconostasis - and 2 secs later a nun appeared , from the back of the Church, and asked me if I would like a book in English - "OOh yes please " so I was presented with a small book in Ukie and English and left to try and find my way round it.

About 10 the Priest opened the Royal Doors and DL started - within secs I was lost - everything was in Ukie !! The congregation was small 7 people , me and 2 nuns. BUT I WAS HOOKED. I was transfixed , this was wonderful . I needed to learn about this. It was so wonderful - I was in no doubt about what was happening - it was soooo reverent - no noise just folk chanting and responding [ and other than me everyone did ].

Oh there were lots of things I asked about afterwards, from my EC friends via the Internet, I had been told about some , others I had found out from conversations with them , Communion from a Golden Spoon , the Great Entrance and similar things .

Oh this wasn't my last experience - I have had many more visits there and though Fr Wasyl has long retired through ill health and he has been replaced.

Indeed the Priest who is now my SF serves there , and he Chrismated me in that little Church - the Church of the Dormition of Our Lady in September last year, some 3 years after my introduction to the Divine Liturgy of Our Father among the Saints John Chrysostom

[tidbit]

I just can't believe all of the other converts so far thought it was really a great thing the first time they went. You have got to admit that the service is very strange if you are a typical American protestant and are not used to it.

I agree. I was completely freaked out. It was like I had visited another planet. It wasn't much like what I had expected.

First of all, this church was about a 2 hour drive from my home, so I had to get up early to leave. I wanted to be on time, and attend the whole service, so I arrived 5 minutes early for the Orthros service. . . It was just the priest, his wife, and me for the first 15 minutes. I priest's wife was doing the choir responses, and I didn't know if I was supposed to be the 'choir' as well. (LOL) And all of that incense! (cough, cough) The reader showed up 15 minutes late.

By the time the DL was over, there were about 35 people there...the choir had arrived, but the music wasn't as good as I expected. (Didn't sound anything like Ancient Faith Radio. (ha!)).

Oh, well. I've been back, and now I'm more comfortable...

[eoe]

IT is strange but the parish I attend must be ultra conservative with the incense. Even though I can see the priest censing I never can actually smell the incense. It seems it goes one of two ways - either no scent or a whole lot.

[ephraimanesti]

It was weird to me the first time. People standing around in a small room, full of icons, overpowering smell of incense, strange but haunting music, the priest chanting the whole service, prayers being recited from memory or a book with no one bowing their heads, no one in the congregation participating in the responses (just the choir sang), too ritualistic feeling. Despite all of this strangeness, I felt compelled to go back and try again. Being a nondenominational person, it really freaked me out the first time because it is a Christian service, but it might as well have been another religion for all I knew. Then I started researching it and discovered that this was the way the apostles worshipped, and that was enough for me. My wife however is another story. I will be lucky if she ever attends again.

I just can't believe all of the other converts so far thought it was really a great thing the first time they went. You have got to admit that the service is very strange if you are a typical American protestant and are not used to it.

MY DEAR BROTHER IN CHRIST,

Thank you for sharing your experience. i would mention somewhat off the subject as regarding your statement that "My wife however is another story. i will be lucky if she ever attends." The situation between myself and my wife was the same--she being a very adament Evangelical Protestant. i have been blessed to be Orthodox for five years, and it is only during the last year that my wife has consented to accompany me to special Liturgies such as around Pascha and the Nativity Feast.
Several things helped to break down the walls of her somewhat typical Protestant prejudices: 1. After i had been finally baptised into the Church after several years as a catecumen, she began to see a positive change begin to take place in me--i was actually (gasp) becoming a loving considerate human being--something she had never experienced from me before in our marriage (this is, of course, another story.) So she saw the power of the Church working through the Sacraments--especially the Divine Liturgy--whereas in all the other "spiritual" belief systems i had become involved in before Orthodoxy, nothing had really changed as far as my negative attitudes and behaviors were concerned.
2. My Spiritual Father and his mattuscha (mispelled :( ) came over for dinner (at Father's suggestion) and we all had a wonderful time--my wife included! She was quite impressed with Father and his wife and their Christian walk. In fact, we will be going over to their house tonight for a HolyDay housewarming get-together.
3. From time to time i give my wife Orthodox Christian articles from various sources to read--many being Postings from CF. She won't read a whole book, but from time to time i will slip her short readings which discuss some aspects of the Orthodox Faith--and little pieces add up! Most, if not all, of her prejudices against the Orthodox Faith--most formed by misinformation--seem to have dissipated. She appears to be at the--"I'm glad you are involved but it just isn't for me" stage. (i think she suffers from "pew deprivation" when attending Liturgies ;) )
4. i occasionally go with my wife to her Church when the service doesn't conflict with my attending Divine Liturgy, and i have stopped making unkind comments about what i see as the valueless and rather silly entertainment Protestant services strike me as being.
Anyway, i said all that to say--DON'T GIVE UP HOPE. Be patient, be loving, and be prayerful. God is in the miracle business :thumbsup: ! Maybe your Spiritual Father has some suggestions regarding ways and means of enticing your wife to attend Divine Liturgy or other Celebrations with you at least occasionally. MAY YOU BOTH BE BLESSED!

LOVE TO YOU AND YOURS IN CHRIST,
ephraimanesti

[BabyLutheran]

Yes, my wife and I had a mini-spat over it on Christmas Eve, but then on Christmas, she told me to go to an Orthodox Church if I want to, but she just won't go with me. We have not been attending any church regularly for about a year, so I am concerned she won't go anywhere to church while I am at DL, which I think is very bad. We also have 3 children to be concerned about, and I don't think that it's good to have them torn between mom and dad. But I do believe I will start attending the Orthodox congregation. I believe God will start working His part in it if I am obedient.

[Dust and Ashes]

It was almost overwhelming. I remember thinking, "This is what worship in Heaven must be like." and I couldn't bring myself to go back to the little church we had been attending. I guess you could say it ruined me for other church services. :D

[Dust and Ashes]

Yes, my wife and I had a mini-spat over it on Christmas Eve, but then on Christmas, she told me to go to an Orthodox Church if I want to, but she just won't go with me. We have not been attending any church regularly for about a year, so I am concerned she won't go anywhere to church while I am at DL, which I think is very bad. We also have 3 children to be concerned about, and I don't think that it's good to have them torn between mom and dad. But I do believe I will start attending the Orthodox congregation. I believe God will start working His part in it if I am obedient.

I know what my priest would tell you. The same thing he told me and the same thing he told my cousin when he expressed concern for his wife's apprehension.

"Give her the time God gave you."

[Michael the Iconographer]

The thing I remember about my first Divine Liturgy (almost 10 years ago) was how incredibly long it was. It was Paschal Resurrection Matins/Divine Liturgy and while I figured that an Orthodox Divine Liturgy would be a bit longer than a Roman Catholic Mass, I had no idea it would last from 11pm-ish until 2:30 am! I also remember the joy in the voice of Bishop Dmitri (Antiochian) as he proclaimed "Christ is Risen!" and thought it wierd that I could be given prosfora even though I was not Orthodox. The only thing that I also remember was how beautiful the whole liturgy was.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Yes, my wife and I had a mini-spat over it on Christmas Eve, but then on Christmas, she told me to go to an Orthodox Church if I want to, but she just won't go with me. We have not been attending any church regularly for about a year, so I am concerned she won't go anywhere to church while I am at DL, which I think is very bad. We also have 3 children to be concerned about, and I don't think that it's good to have them torn between mom and dad. But I do believe I will start attending the Orthodox congregation. I believe God will start working His part in it if I am obedient.

What is worse is to drive her away from Orthodoxy by being pushy. I know this, because I have already gone through this. In the end my x-wife converted to Orthodoxy because of me, and not because it is the true faith. I know this because once we divorced she stopped going to any Orthodox Church. Thus, give her the time she needs, pray for her, and trust that God will move her heart.

[Akathist]

I was so desperate for Christ and the real Presence in the Eucharist and so miserable in my personal life... I only remember feeling like I was somewhere peaceful, and I felt carried away by the service... for a little while I had no emotional pain.

I was also overwelmed with how much the Holyness of God was manifested and how reverant the service was. I remember thinking to myself that I would never go anywhere else ever again. (I have only been to protestant or catholic weddings or funerals since that day, having never again gone to a Protestant Church.)

[ephraimanesti]

Yes, my wife and I had a mini-spat over it on Christmas Eve, but then on Christmas, she told me to go to an Orthodox Church if I want to, but she just won't go with me. We have not been attending any church regularly for about a year, so I am concerned she won't go anywhere to church while I am at DL, which I think is very bad. We also have 3 children to be concerned about, and I don't think that it's good to have them torn between mom and dad. But I do believe I will start attending the Orthodox congregation. I believe God will start working His part in it if I am obedient.

MY DEAR BROTHER IN CHRIST,

Are the kids old enough to go with you to Liturgy? Possibly you could find a Parish which (i shudder to say it, but . . . ) has pews so you could ease them into an experience of the Liturgy as painlessly as possible.
If they are not old enough to attend Divine Liturgy with you, perhaps you could prevail upon your wife to get involved with the Church of her choice "for the kids' sake." CHILDREN NEED JESUS! Perhaps a non-Orthodox Church at this stage of the game would be better than nothing, and it might act to get your wife focused on Jesus which would give Him the opportunity to begin stearing her towards the TRUTH you have already found.
But above all, as you say, don't let it become a tug-of-war, with the kids the victims--i've been there and done that, and it is very destructive to them, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.

MANY BLESSINGS TO YOU, AND MAY GOD, WHO KNOWS THE HEARTS OF ALL, GUIDE YOU ARIGHT!
ephraimanesti

[SumTinWong]

My first experience wasn't horrible, but it was very foriegn to me. I had a hard time trying to follow as some have said, but the third parish I tried someone offered to show me the ropes, and things are better now. Not sure I feel any less foriegn, but I am hopeful.

I have liked the part in the church when I can come and get the antidoron(sp?) although it still makes me feel self concious to do as Orthodox do and I am not yet Orthodox.

[Photini]

I had not been to church in at least two years when I attended my first Divine Liturgy, so literally I was spiritually starving. I sat there the whole service just drinking it up. I hung on every word, every smell, studied every Icon there that I could see...

AFterwards, I read the lives of several Orthodox Saints and knew without a doubt that this Church, with all it's strangeness, was home.