Messianics: Do you all go to a Messianic Congregation?...

[Victrixa]

Hi dear brothers and sisters in Messiah,

Well.... do you all go to a Messianic Congregation (is there one available near your home) or do you go to a Protestant (or other) church and/or Jewish synagogue and live the Messianic lifestyle? (I know Messianism is first and foremost a lifestyle) I'm curious and would like to know what those of you who don't have a Messianic Congregation in your area do (if you attend some church or not)?

Thanx in advance! :)

Inquirer in Messianism :),

Caroline

[jgonz]

We have no Messianic congregation here, so we keep the Sabbath at home and listen to an online teacher on Friday evenings. We attended a Christian church for Years, but about 2 years ago the L-rd called us out. :)

[Victrixa]

Thank you jgonz for the reply. :)

We have no Messianic congregation here, so we keep the Sabbath at home and listen to an online teacher on Friday evenings.

Can I have the link? ;)


We attended a Christian church for Years, but about 2 years ago the L-rd called us out.

Did the people at your previous church know that you are Messianic? If yes, how did they react? Did some of them become Messianics also, following your example? :)

Shalom.

[BarbB]

I am a member of the Church of God and I used to attend all services - couldn't get enough. Now I also attend a tiny Shabbat service on Saturdays in a home. It is so powerful that I manage to get to church on Sunday but not Sunday evening or Wednesday evening. I may take a group on Prayer this winter - not sure.

The Shabbat I have been going to is informal, but passionate. Small - 10 at the largest. There is a Messianic congregation about 30 min away but I never got there - they have a service on Friday also, so I may try it.

I don't worry about my church friends because the best friends are also going on Saturday! :D And the church has a huge heart for Israel. The pastor is retiring in a couple of years and should the L-rd tarry, he and his wife want to live there for a few years! Me, too!

[CovenantRay]

My family and I attend a Non-Denominational, bible believing church. There is a messianic congregation also about 35-40 minutes away, however we do not attend.

The congregation once lauded me as a "completed Jew," however they just "have to" love me now. I conduct the Passover Seder in our church, and Pastor minds his "P's and Q's" when he preaches from the Old Testment.

We've taught a Jewish Roots small group a few times and after a few people left to go to messianic congregations, we've politely declined teaching further formal groups.

I work for changes within the church, and have been somewhat successful. I seldom get told "we're not under The Law" anymore, and that I'm being "legalistic" any more -- at least within earshot -- and certainly not by the pastor!

There is a genuine fondness pastor and I have for each other and nearly always speak after service about the parallels, types, and shadows carry forth from the Old to the New Testaments.

Shalom,

CovenantRay :prayer:

[Wags]

We attend a small messianic fellowship. When we have lived where there wasn't a messianic fellowship available we have attend Seventh-Day Adventist services. Neither dh nor I have ever attended sunday church and just can't imagine doing so.

At least with the SDA church meetings were on Shabbat and the pot lucks were kosher (usually lacto-ovo vegetarian) so we were able to fellowship over meals. While attending SDA churches we quietly worked to bring more attention to Torah and the feasts with varying amounts of success. At least one pastor we worked with continued to bring a hebraic mindset to his teachings and we just heard he was promoted to a postion of regional leadership, so maybe the seed we planted will continue to spread.

You can search for a messianic congregation near you here: http://www.yashanet.com/messcon1.htm since Messianic Judaism is a congregational movement, there are a variety of congregational structures from some that look very much like a church and some that look very jewish.

[Higher Truth]

Hi dear brothers and sisters in Messiah,

Well.... do you all go to a Messianic Congregation (is there one available near your home) or do you go to a Protestant (or other) church and/or Jewish synagogue and live the Messianic lifestyle? (I know Messianism is first and foremost a lifestyle) I'm curious and would like to know what those of you who don't have a Messianic Congregation in your area do (if you attend some church or not)?

Thanx in advance! :)

Inquirer in Messianism :),

Caroline

I spend a fair amount of time exchanging information with a close friend of mine, who is a Messianic Jewish teacher, who at one time was an educator for a large MJ organization. There is a small group of us who meet in person when it is convenient, and online when we are all busy. I also will, if invited, study with some Christians if they have a good foundation in Scripture. I am not into all of the "feelings", or the latest greatest wind of doctrine that people are being blown about by. For the most part, the "Messianic" movement looks nothing like MJ. It is an imposter movement run mostly by non-Jews.

[PastorMikeJ]

I am a member of the Church of God and I used to attend all services - couldn't get enough. Now I also attend a tiny Shabbat service on Saturdays in a home. It is so powerful that I manage to get to church on Sunday but not Sunday evening or Wednesday evening. I may take a group on Prayer this winter - not sure.

The Shabbat I have been going to is informal, but passionate. Small - 10 at the largest. There is a Messianic congregation about 30 min away but I never got there - they have a service on Friday also, so I may try it.

I don't worry about my church friends because the best friends are also going on Saturday! :D And the church has a huge heart for Israel. The pastor is retiring in a couple of years and should the L-rd tarry, he and his wife want to live there for a few years! Me, too!

I have a hunger to move to Israel to live..to work with a Pastor that lives there who is Messianic Jew..He works with teens and young people under the age of 30...I truly love my Jews brothers and sisters and love to worship with those that have accepted Jesus and are keeping the Traditions...

[~Nikki~]

We do not attend a Messianic congregation because we don't know of one in this country.

The area where I live is 90% Catholic, and the rest of the churches are mainly quite traditional Protestant churches.

However, we are friends with another couple who are Messianic so we meet up with them on Shabbat about once a month. We have also just made contact with other believers who have a love for Israel and I *think* are Messianic and we are trying to set up a monthly meeting with them.

Apart from that we listen to online messages and do our own study, and also attend the nearest Baptist church once or twice a month, mainly to keep in contact with Christians in the area so that we are not completely cut off from everyone...though I must say we're finding it harder and harder to attend this church...maybe G-d is calling us out of this church???

When we were in England my husband and I attended a church which had a love for Israel and studied the scriptures from a Jewish perspective though I wouldn't say they were Messianic in terms of following Torah...they were more like an evangelical church with a heart for Israel...

[jgonz]

Victrixa~
Can I have the link? ;)
Sure~ http://www.bnaishalom.info/ There are lots of teachers online on Friday evening or Saturday morning but since we have friends who attend this congregation we listen/watch (on RealPlayer) this one. :)

Did the people at your previous church know that you are Messianic? If yes, how did they react? Did some of them become Messianics also, following your example?
The people at our previous church always thought we were a little odd... (we've kept the Sabbath and celebrated the Feasts for over 14 yrs now, not to mention we have a large family~ 8 kids). The people that even had an opinion thought it was "cool" that we celebrated the Feasts.... but "strange" to "legalistic" that we kept the Sabbath. If someone asked me, I'd try to explain, but within moments the eyes would glaze over and they'd just say "oh, that's interesting" and walk away.

I (and most of my kids) actually quit going to that church nearly a year before my husband and oldest son (who was on the worship team~ drums. He's now 21) stopped going and Officially left the church with an email to the pastor explaining why. He never responded. There were other problems in that church anyway, so I wasn't surprised that the pastor was relieved that a "problem" family was leaving. :doh:

I've run across One family that went to that church who is interested in all things Messianic... but I didn't know until 3 weeks ago when I ran into the wife at WalMart, of all places, and we stood there and talked for nearly 40 minutes. ^_^ I emailed her a lot of links, places to buy things, how to get started info with Sabbath, etc. She (and apparently the whole family) is Thrilled, and I'm hoping to invite them for Sabbath dinner at our house soon. :)

[HaNotsri]

Interestingly enough northstar, I've always wondered if there was a Messianic community in the motherland (that be Ireland). My family is from counties Tipperary and Kilkenny, I really would like to go to Ireland sometime. Ireland and Israel are my two passions :)

[Higher Truth]

Victrixa~

Sure~ http://www.bnaishalom.info/ There are lots of teachers online on Friday evening or Saturday morning but since we have friends who attend this congregation we listen/watch (on RealPlayer) this one. :)


That organization is tied to Monte Judah, who promotes two house, and believes that the book of Hebrews is not correct, and therefore not really scripture.

People on the net have been commenting about it:

http://www.therefinersfire.org/book_of_hebrews.htm

Note:

This is not an endorsement of the website linked above.

[~Nikki~]

Interestingly enough northstar, I've always wondered if there was a Messianic community in the motherland (that be Ireland). My family is from counties Tipperary and Kilkenny, I really would like to go to Ireland sometime. Ireland and Israel are my two passions :)

Well if you ever hear of any please let me know! We'd love to find a Messianic community here.

[jgonz]

That organization is tied to Monte Judah, who promotes two house, and believes that the book of Hebrews is not correct, and therefore not really scripture.

People on the net have been commenting about it:



Yes, we listen to Monte Judah on most Friday evenings, and yes, I know they're 2 House. He is a teaching elder at B'nai Shalom congregation, which is the link I posted. I personally believe that the basic 2 House teaching is correct. There are a Lot of misconceptions floating around out there about what 2 House Is though. I'll post links to some good articles if you'd like. I have some very dear friends who attend that congregation so we listen in.

As far as the book of Hebrews goes, there ARE and Always Have been questions about the book, it's origins, it's authorship, and whether or not it belongs in the Canon of the Bible. CENTURIES of arguing. This is not a new discussion. I see no problem with Monte Judah (or anyone else) bringing out these points. We had a really really really long thread about it here on MJF a few months ago, and the scholars in the bunch all brought out very good points on the history of this argument. Besides the fact that Monte Judah never said he thought we should throw out the book of Hebrews.

And, once again, for the record, I don't agree with All of what ANYone teaches.

[Yovel]

I attend Monte Judah's corgregaton. He always studies a subject thoroughly before he teaches on that subject. I know him personaly and I trust what he teaches. He was a baptist preacher before he bcame messianic.

(IMHO) The main reason a lot of people don't like his teaching is bacause they haven't fully left the Church, or they don't go to the source to see what he is really teaching. It is no wonder Courts don't allow hearsay as testimony in a trial.

[christinepro]

I have always felt Messianic and would love to have more fellowship in this area. The closest congregation is three hours away. We went there for the first time about a month ago. We are planning on going again on Saturday. Otherwise, I go to The Vineyard church in my neighborhood on Sundays and celebrate the Sabbath at home.

[simchat_torah]

2 house is replacement theology repackaged.

If you accept replacement theology, you'll have no problem with 2 house.

[DiddyDon]

2 house is replacement theology repackaged.

If you accept replacement theology, you'll have no problem with 2 house.
This might be a little off subject but, do Messianic Jews attend Trinitarian Churches?

[Tishri1]

I have always felt Messianic and would love to have more fellowship in this area. The closest congregation is three hours away. We went there for the first time about a month ago. We are planning on going again on Saturday. Otherwise, I go to The Vineyard church in my neighborhood on Sundays and celebrate the Sabbath at home. I use to go to a vineyard...John Wimber had some ties to messianic things you know...

[Tishri1]

we go to a huge Church on Sunday and have a simple Shabbat on Friday Eve and rest all day Sat.(Shabbat) doing things with Family...we use to attend a congregation but they were not accomadating to children and we really need to respect our kids and not make attending a shul torcher for them...

I am hoping that someday the same shul will see that the Church is waiting for them to be ready to meet this same need....

[Yovel]

2 house is replacement theology repackaged.

If you accept replacement theology, you'll have no problem with 2 house.

Is this replacement theology?

Eze 37:15 The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,
Eze 37:16 You, son of man, take one stick, and write on it, For Yehudah, and for the children of Yisra'el his companions: then take another stick, and write on it, For Yosef, the stick of Efrayim, and [for] all the house of Yisra'el his companions:
Eze 37:17 and join them for you one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.
Eze 37:18 When the children of your people shall speak to you, saying, Will you not show us what you mean by these?
Eze 37:19 tell them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the stick of Yosef, which is in the hand of Efrayim, and the tribes of Yisra'el his companions; and I will put them with it, [even] with the stick of Yehudah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in my hand.
Eze 37:20 The sticks whereon you write shall be in your hand before their eyes.
Eze 37:21 Say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the children of Yisra'el from among the nations, where they are gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
Eze 37:22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Yisra'el; and one king shall be king to them all; and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all;

[jgonz]

http://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-top-left.gifQuotehttp://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-top-right.gif http://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-by-left.gifOriginally Posted by: simchat_torah http://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-by-right.gifhttp://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-top-right-10.gif2 house is replacement theology repackaged.

If you accept replacement theology, you'll have no problem with 2 house.http://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-bot-left.gifhttp://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-bot-right.gif

As I said before, there are a LOT of misconceptions about what exactly 2 House theology is. You have just listed one of them, simhat_torah.

Replacement theology is Wrong, not to mention UnScriptural. 2 House theology says Nothing about anybody replacing anyone. Read the Scriptures posted above please.

Here is the position paper on 2 House theology: http://www.lionlamb.net/twohouse.htm

And this is taken from it:
THE JEWISH PEOPLE ARE PHYSICAL HEIRS OF THE COVENANT MADE WITH ABRAHAM

It was Jacob's name that was changed to Israel (Genesis 32:24-28). Those who are physically descended from Jacob are all Israelites. In the history of the physical descendents of the house of Jacob (Exodus 19:3), they were divided into Northern Kingdom (house of Israel / Ephraim) and Southern Kingdom (house of Judah / Judah). We believe that the Jewish people (the house of Judah) are the legitimate heirs of the promise made by the God of Israel to the fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We believe that the house of Judah is composed of primarily physical descendants of the tribes of Judah, Levi and Benjamin. There may be other physical descendants from the other tribes sojourning with the house of Judah; however, they are on an individual basis and are a minority within the house of Judah. There also are Gentile companions in the house of Judah; however, they have been joined to and integrated with to such an extent that they can no longer be distinguishable for purposes of separation from the house of Judah. All Jews (house of Judah) are Israelites (members of the house of Jacob) but not all Israelites (those from the Northern Kingdom / house of Israel / Ephraim) are Jews (house of Judah). There have been Jews in every generation who have accepted the redemptive work of Yeshua / Jesus, the Messiah.

WHO IS THE NORTHERN KINGDOM (HOUSE OF ISRAEL) ???

We believe that the physical descendents of the Northern Kingdom (house of Israel / Ephraim) who was taken captive by the Assyrians are still alive in the earth and that the God of Israel knows where every descendant has been scattered (Amos 9:9). We believe that this house of Israel is not so easily distinguishable. They are primarily physical descendants of the tribes of Israel not associated with the house of Judah, the Jews. These include the tribes of Ephraim, Reuben, Simeon, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Issachar, Zebulun, Manassah, and Dan. They also may be physical descendants of the other tribes sojourning with the house of Israel / Ephraim; however, they are on an individual basis and a minority within the house of Israel / Ephraim. We believe there are also Gentile companions in the house of Israel / Ephraim. Whereas the house of Judah is somewhat distinguishable by custom and tradition, the house of Israel appears to be assimilated within the Gentile world. They, too, are legitimate heirs of the promise of the God of Israel by the fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We further believe that the greater group in physical number of the two houses is the house of Israel. There are physical descendants from the Northern Kingdom who have accepted the redemptive work of Yeshua / Jesus, the Messiah, in every generation. However, the exact percentage that has done so is unknown. Their percentage within the entire body of Messiah is also unknown.

THOSE WHO ARE SAVED FROM AMONG THE NATIONS

We believe that the body of Messiah includes those from among the nations who are not physically descended from the twelve tribes of Israel. As it relates to being a member of Messiah’s kingdom, we believe that being a physical descendant from any tribe of Israel carries no special status or merit within Messiah’s Kingdom. We believe that those from among the nations who are not physically descended from any of the tribes of Israel carry no special status or merit within His Kingdom. We also believe that being Jewish, Israelite, or Gentile carries no handicap either. We believe that the true heirs of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are descendants by promise of and faith in the God of Israel (Romans 9:6-8). Therefore, whether a person is physically born Jewish, Israelite, or Gentile is of no matter within the Messiah’s Kingdom. We are all co-heirs with Messiah (Romans 8:15-17, Galatians 3:8, 16, 29)

[Tishri1]

I'm with You Jan, I was reading the 2house stuff back before the contraversy and it was very informative but not at all what it is being accused of today...like all good things there is the one who just has to pervert the truth and start causing divisions among us....it's always the same old game with that demon:doh:

[Wags]

Tim Hegg has an interesting article (http://www.torahresource.com/English%20Articles/Two%20House%20Fatal%20Errors.pdf) expressing his viewpoint on the Two House theory.

First Fruits of Zion also addresses the Two House theory in this article:
Encounters with an Ephraimite (http://ffoz.org/downloads/Ephraimite-encounter.pdf)

In addition they address Monte Judah's rejection of the book of Hebrews in a very well documented article: Answering the Questions Regarding the Epistle of Hebrews (http://ffoz.org/downloads/Questions-Regarding-Hebrews.pdf)- A response to Monte Judah's questions of canonicity.

[CovenantRay]

Shalom:

I wish there was consensus on this issue, or that it were banned (2 house).

I've prayed, studied, and thought about this issue a "bunch" and have decided that what is most likely is this:

When the kingdom divided after Solomon died, and the Southern kingdom had Judah and Benjamin, the other tribes to the Northern kingdom.

As the Northern kingdom went into idolatry, the Levites and those who were intent to follow HaShem went south. Those who were in those 10 tribes who were unfaithful were diluted and dispersed by the Assyrians -- which was their way to subdue lands they had taken over.

There is no lost 10 tribes or 2 house, it IS a heresy not supported by careful exogesis of scripture. It is a stepping stone used to support replacement theology. As I've stated before, that logic paved the way for anti-semitism, the inquisition, crusades, and the holocaust.

All of the above points are my [strong] convictions, and are in no way representative of undue influence of bad teaching or my allegence with any organization. My G-d has not changed, lied, or broken any of his covenants or promises. My G-d reigns!

Climbing off of my soapbox [for now]

Todah,


CovenantRay :prayer:

[jgonz]

I just plain don't understand how replacement theology has anything to do with 2 House stuff. That term keeps getting thrown around and I just don't see it! *shaking head* It is NOT associated with replacement theology! How can 2 House theology say that Jews who know they are Jews, people with Jewish blood who don't realize it (or may find out they do at some point in time), and plain old Gentiles ALL be part of Israel (whether born in or adopted/grafted in) be the same thing as Replacement theology which says that Jews "lost" it with G-d and are being replaced by the "church"???? I'm serious here, I don't see how these 2 are the same AT ALL! :confused:

Those who were in those 10 tribes who were unfaithful were diluted and dispersed by the Assyrians

So you're saying that they WERE dispersed and lost their Hebrew heritage, so they aren't Hebrew anymore? I thought Jewish blood was Jewish blood, whether or not the person was in idolatry? And doesn't G-d promise to bring them ALL back?

Oh, and here is a paper refuting the "Ephraimite Error" paper:
http://www.tnnonline.net/two-housenews/judah/ee-ce/Ephraimite_Error_Critical_Errors.pdf#search='ephraimite%20error

[jgonz]

*sigh* I'm sorry I'm being rather emotional. We got some bad news about DH's job this evening and I'm afraid I'm taking it out on this thread. sorry :sorry: :doh:

[CovenantRay]

*sigh* I'm sorry I'm being rather emotional. We got some bad news about DH's job this evening and I'm afraid I'm taking it out on this thread. sorry :sorry: :doh:

Dear Achoti:

Feel free to be emotional. We are misbocha, like a family.

To answer part of your question, as I'm only prepared to answer part of it now, When the kingdom was divided, the Northern kingdom had no good Kings. They all defied the prophets of HaShem, erected idols in the high places, etc. Ahab was probably the worst and his wife Jezebel was worse still. In judgement for idolatry, and much more, the Northern kingdom was taken over by the Assyrians. Many of the population were relocated, killed, enslaved, etc. Many other peoples were moved in to take their place. The remnants intermarried, which was prohibited in The Law -- but they were lawless anyway. Although there were people there with bloodlines [diluted] descended from Jacob/Israel, they did not have the understanding, culture, or means to be observant Jews. They became something else. In the time of Y'shua, they were the Samaritans. The Jews did not consider them Jews.

With regard to your dear husband:

Blessed are You, L-rd G-d, King of the universe, who is the provider of all good things. In the scriptures you have reminded us that you provide for creatures who do not sow or reap telling us not to worry. For me, L-rd, this is a comfort, though the pressures of THIS world can seep through. I humbly ask that you support and provide for these, your children, comfort them in their time of distress, surround them with your love like a warm soft blanket, and let them rest and gain strength in the shadow of your wings. L-rd G-d, I know you will turn all things to good. In the name of my messiah Y'shua, I pray. AMEN and AMEN

Your Achi,

CovenantRay :prayer:

[jgonz]

Thank you for the prayer~ I appreciate it. :)

[Gwenyfur]

I haven't found a messianic congregation close to me yet so I'm still attending and serving in my local baptist church..
they're amazingly close to messianic though...

[Gwenyfur]

*sigh* I'm sorry I'm being rather emotional. We got some bad news about DH's job this evening and I'm afraid I'm taking it out on this thread. sorry :sorry: :doh:
:prayer: I completely understand about the DH job thing. Your family will be in our prayers.
My DH has been laid off since late october :eek:

[Tishri1]

Shalom:

I wish there was consensus on this issue, or that it were banned (2 house).

I've prayed, studied, and thought about this issue a "bunch" and have decided that what is most likely is this:

When the kingdom divided after Solomon died, and the Southern kingdom had Judah and Benjamin, the other tribes to the Northern kingdom.

As the Northern kingdom went into idolatry, the Levites and those who were intent to follow HaShem went south. Those who were in those 10 tribes who were unfaithful were diluted and dispersed by the Assyrians -- which was their way to subdue lands they had taken over.

There is no lost 10 tribes or 2 house, it IS a heresy not supported by careful exogesis of scripture. It is a stepping stone used to support replacement theology. As I've stated before, that logic paved the way for anti-semitism, the inquisition, crusades, and the holocaust.

All of the above points are my [strong] convictions, and are in no way representative of undue influence of bad teaching or my allegence with any organization. My G-d has not changed, lied, or broken any of his covenants or promises. My G-d reigns!

Climbing off of my soapbox [for now]

Todah,


CovenantRay :prayer:and amaisingly no teaching of heracy or replacement theology ever came out of the early two house movement...it wasn't even called a movement....it was just a bunch of people presenting the idea that some who have a heart for Isreal may be more closely related than they think(to any of the tribes) and that ABBA may be gathering his people by putting a love for Isreal in their hearts...no such replacement of Isreal was ever espoused back then, untill the rumors and gossip started *sad* :sigh: I think HaSatan will use every means he has to divide us and it's up to us to refuse to let that happen...I love Tim Hague(went to his congregation a few times and was a member of his daughter congregation) and I love FFOZ too, I see that even those two cherished ministries are under attack as well by yet other organizations...it's ashame, and is only fed by those of us who choose to take sides...I for one refuse to take a side and choose to eat the meat and spit out the bones and leave it at that....I think most of us here are doing just that...we get the bigger picture don't we;)

[jgonz]

I for one refuse to take a side and choose to eat the meat and spit out the bones and leave it at that....I think most of us here are doing just that...we get the bigger picture don't we ;)

:amen:

I get materials and read articles from everyone. Seems like the smartest thing to do now-a-days. ;)

[Ivy]

I've been attending a Messianic cong. for eleven years now. It's pretty small, but we're a doughty bunch. I'm not Jewish, so my reason for being there is to be a "Christian friend of Israel" (hee hee kind of a pun, there). There have been so many instances in history where Christians tried to take Jewish identity away from Jews, whether believers in Yeshua or not, and to me it is an important amends that I can make to help foster Jewish expression, help build a Messianic synagogue. And that's not as unselfish as it may sound ;-) wink---I learn so much. I really appreciate the Jewish mindset, there is a unique wisdom there that I find complements and balances what I have as a Christian.

I celebrate the Shabbat on Fri/Sat, not because I think I "have" to, but because I enjoy it, and the same with all the Feasts. They are a delightful blessing. I also celebrate the Lent season and Resurrection Day at the traditional Christian times. (I'm not hugely into Christmas....but that's mainly because I hate shopping, heh heh). I'm usually too tired to do any church on Sunday, but sometimes go to midweek meetings at churches. I'm also attending an adult ed. class at the local conservative-liberal synagogue.

All in all, I wouldn't classify myself as a "wannabe," but rather as a "wannalove." :-) In the Scriptures of course, it says we Christians owe an outstanding debt of love to the Jewish people--and to love someone you have to spend time with them and find out what they're really like. So my time in the synagogues, both believing and unbelieving ones, has been very valuable so far.

[HaNotsri]

There's not much to offer in the way of Messianic congregations around here. We do have a small one in the city I am from. There is also a more established group near Green Bay, WI as well. They have a pretty tight-knit group of people, it was an all right group. Just not my thing though.

[plum]

http://www.400k.net/images/modhat-umich.jpg
Mod Hat On

Please keep this discussion on topic with the OP which asks Messianics if they go to a Messianic congregation.

Answers from non-messianics are not helpful and they may violate rule 2:
[notroll]

Please review these rules before you post further replies in this thread.

[DiddyDon]

I'm sorry. Did I offend anyone? I am not Messianic but a Christian.

[Ivy]

Don't know if that rule review was meant for me, too :holy:

But I am an eleven-year member in good standing of a Messianic congregation in a reputable Messianic network. Probably our cong. leaders would provide a nice letter of reference for me, though they might digress and talk about what wonderful salads I make for oneg shabbat ;) Then I'd be forced to share some of my recipes, which are secrets more closely guarded than kabbalah. :D

I didn't use the Messianic scroll icon available on here because it's more important to me to show myself a good Christian friend to the Jewish people than to pass myself off as Jewish.....anyway, that is what that scroll means to me, "I'm Jewish,"-- though maybe the general understanding here is different than my own.

[Tishri1]

All in all, I wouldn't classify myself as a "wannabe," but rather as a "wannalove." .LOVE IT!:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Tishri1]

Don't know if that rule review was meant for me, too :holy:

But I am an eleven-year member in good standing of a Messianic congregation in a reputable Messianic network. Probably our cong. leaders would provide a nice letter of reference for me, though they might digress and talk about what wonderful salads I make for oneg shabbat ;) Then I'd be forced to share some of my recipes, which are secrets more closely guarded than kabbalah. :D

I didn't use the Messianic scroll icon available on here because it's more important to me to show myself a good Christian friend to the Jewish people than to pass myself off as Jewish.....anyway, that is what that scroll means to me, "I'm Jewish,"-- though maybe the general understanding here is different than my own.the scroll means that you are apart of Messianic Judiasm not Jewish:sigh:

[jgonz]

I didn't use the Messianic scroll icon available on here because it's more important to me to show myself a good Christian friend to the Jewish people than to pass myself off as Jewish.....anyway, that is what that scroll means to me, "I'm Jewish,"-- though maybe the general understanding here is different than my own.

No one here is trying to pass themselves off as being Jewish (at least not that I've seen). Messianics are Jews AND Gentiles who are Both grafted into the vine. One new creature in Christ...

I align myself with Messianic Judaism because I believe it's the closest thing to the very first congregations (book of Acts), and and use the Torah scroll icon here at CF to show that. It doesn't matter how long any of us have been involved in a congregation (or that we even are In a congregation or not) it's what we believe.

[christinepro]

No one here is trying to pass themselves off as being Jewish (at least not that I've seen). Messianics are Jews AND Gentiles who are Both grafted into the vine. One new creature in Christ...

I align myself with Messianic Judaism because I believe it's the closest thing to the very first congregations (book of Acts), and and use the Torah scroll icon here at CF to show that. It doesn't matter how long any of us have been involved in a congregation (or that we even are In a congregation or not) it's what we believe.

I want to part of the scroll too. Isn't Yeshua for both Jew and Gentile?

[Yovel]

whosever will.

[Yusuphhai]

Ha. I take part in Protestant church face to face and Messianic congregation here. I am the only one near me who insist on Messianic faith, a special style of Christian faith. It is not very easy for a Chinese to hear the gospel of Jesus, and how about Messianic Judaism? But really some Chinese Christians can understand there are Jews whose color of skin is white, black or yellow as American.;)

[Yusuphhai]

This is a title about all kinds of Jews of different colors in a Chinese Christian forum. Some interested pictures in it.

http://zanmei.net/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=51312&fpage=1&highlight=%2BH%2B

[visionary]

No one here is trying to pass themselves off as being Jewish (at least not that I've seen). Messianics are Jews AND Gentiles who are Both grafted into the vine. One new creature in Christ...

I align myself with Messianic Judaism because I believe it's the closest thing to the very first congregations (book of Acts), and and use the Torah scroll icon here at CF to show that. It doesn't matter how long any of us have been involved in a congregation (or that we even are In a congregation or not) it's what we believe.Exactly :thumbsup: why I picked up the scroll, because it represents the new creature in Christ, like Mount Sinai with the lights on.

[Tishri1]

No one here is trying to pass themselves off as being Jewish (at least not that I've seen). Messianics are Jews AND Gentiles who are Both grafted into the vine. One new creature in Christ...

I align myself with Messianic Judaism because I believe it's the closest thing to the very first congregations (book of Acts), and and use the Torah scroll icon here at CF to show that. It doesn't matter how long any of us have been involved in a congregation (or that we even are In a congregation or not) it's what we believe.It is a very weird situation though, not being comfortable being called Christian anymore since my lifestyle doesn't warrent that lable yet not being priviledged enough to be called Jewish even if my lifestyle is more Jewish than some Jews I know....oh yeh, and then there the oddest thing yet.....I could be turned into a Jew instantly if I would only convert to Judiasm and deny Yeshua...yet according to man Yeshua doesn't have the same power as man to turn me into such a person even if Yeshua is daily turning my heart into his.....it's a perpetual existance of being an outsider....sad:sigh:

[visionary]

This is a title about all kinds of Jews of different colors in a Chinese Christian forum. Many interested pictures in it.

http://zanmei.net/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=51312&fpage=1&highlight=%2BH%2BYou are so right... those are some cool pics.

[jgonz]

http://zanmei.net/bbs/viewthread.ph...ghlight=%2BH%2B (http://zanmei.net/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=51312&fpage=1&highlight=%2BH%2B)
I finally got a chance to look at this link and those pictures are very cool. :)

[Yovel]

This is a title about all kinds of Jews of different colors in a Chinese Christian forum. Many interested pictures in it.

http://zanmei.net/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=51312&fpage=1&highlight=%2BH%2BIt's amazing that G-d makes each person different. Imagine 6 billion people in the world and no two think exactly alike!!

[Elisheva413]

It is a very weird situation though, not being comfortable being called Christian anymore since my lifestyle doesn't warrent that lable yet not being priviledged enough to be called Jewish even if my lifestyle is more Jewish than some Jews I know....oh yeh, and then there the oddest thing yet.....I could be turned into a Jew instantly if I would only convert to Judiasm and deny Yeshua...yet according to man Yeshua doesn't have the same power as man to turn me into such a person even if Yeshua is daily turning my heart into his.....it's a perpetual existance of being an outsider....sad:sigh:

Shalom Tishri1,
I struggle with this feeling as well. My life is very different than that of my Christian friends and I relate much more easily with my Jewish friends. One day Messiah will return and reunite us all! I am anxious for that time, we can worship, celebrate and be a united family! But for now, I too feel like an odd on out...I am always glad I have the internet to find fellowship through!
Elisheva413

[Tishri1]

Shalom Tishri1,
I struggle with this feeling as well. My life is very different than that of my Christian friends and I relate much more easily with my Jewish friends. One day Messiah will return and reunite us all! I am anxious for that time, we can worship, celebrate and be a united family! But for now, I too feel like an odd on out...I am always glad I have the internet to find fellowship through!
Elisheva413me too:hug:

[BrEnDiNo99]

:cry:

sadly there is no messianic congregation here but about once a month me and my mom go to toronto to city of david for saturday morning worship. but from the parts we are away we go to a local christian church its very cool.

[Elisheva413]

Ok, so this past Shabbat I visited a very little congregation and it was such a huge blessing to me! I was able to sing the Sh'ma with the group, we read Torah, prayed blessings for the only little on there and then we worshipped in song and dance! What a rejuvinating time! It felt wonderful and my batteries feel recharged....onward!
Shalom,
Elisheva413

[Ivy]

Elisheva, I saw on your intro. you're a Davidic dance leader. :thumbsup: Cool!

I go to a Messianic congregation, join in with doing Shabbat every Fri/Sat (a HUGE blessing, so wonderful), join in with all the feasts. I can read Hebrew and I hope we'll do more trope in our services , and I also hope we'll have a Torah scroll someday so we can do Torah processions. I'm attending a Jewish study class at the Conservative-Liberal synagogue (we're studying the Siddur).

I sometimes go to midweek church meetings, a RC charismatic prayer group, sometimes a charismatic worship meeting at another church. My parents are Baptist so I may go there once or twice a year, though they live a distance away....

[Elisheva413]

Shalom Ivy!
I love the dance! I connect spiritually through music and dance very well, it is how He created me! I apologize if I said a "dance leader" I am more of a coordinator, I can teach a few dances but for what I am working on now, I am really letting the Lord be the leader. It is very exciting, I am coordinting a dance group to meet monthly on Shabbat in the afternoons. The vision I have been given for it is that it will be a place of restoration and renewal. People from all walks of faith can come and worship through dance. There is no doctrine there, no theology, just worship and fellowship. I am hoping to bring together people that have been hurt or frustrated with the Messianic movement, to help provide a place to heal and worship together, as one body. I pray for this frequently...I cannot wait to see what the Lord does!:pray:
Shalom~

[Elisheva413]

Elisheva, I saw on your intro. you're a Davidic dance leader. :thumbsup: Cool!

I go to a Messianic congregation, join in with doing Shabbat every Fri/Sat (a HUGE blessing, so wonderful), join in with all the feasts. I can read Hebrew and I hope we'll do more trope in our services , and I also hope we'll have a Torah scroll someday so we can do Torah processions. I'm attending a Jewish study class at the Conservative-Liberal synagogue (we're studying the Siddur).

I sometimes go to midweek church meetings, a RC charismatic prayer group, sometimes a charismatic worship meeting at another church. My parents are Baptist so I may go there once or twice a year, though they live a distance away....

Ivy...ooops, I had something to ask you too...You said you attend a class at the synagogue, I have wanted to be able to go and hear Torah at the local synagogue and perhaps different functions. Hearing the Torah chanted makes my heart sing...I miss it very much as well as the blessings and seeing the Torah processional. I would really like to go but I have always been nervous after reading about some viewpoints of those of us who believe... and the viewpoints of some who are very anti Messianic. May I ask about your experiences?

It sounds like you keep a very nice schedule and you have plenty of options in your area!
Thanks for sharing...I am learning so much here!
Shalom~

[Ivy]

I started in with the dancing in '97 and agree with you, it's a real instrument of healing from the Lord. I don't think I could express how much the Lord has done for me through it. And it's just beyond fun to go to a large conference and be in a huge group of dancing people, all doing the same steps.....it's so beautiful, like being in a throng of angels in heaven. :-)

I felt pretty awkward at first, going to the classes, honestly, but I really wanted to because of a challenge from a Messianic rabbi who said that if people of church background want to love the Jewish people, they need to get to know them. There have been maybe one or two gruff people there, but most have been quite nice, especially the current rabbi is very friendly. I've just kept going over the years and I think they're used to my face by now. I think it's important to go with the attitude that "these people have something to teach me," and certainly not with any Gospel tracts in hand (very very bad form). I only mention that because I knew of someone who did that with the tracts, and it wasn't a good thing at all.

One thing that's kind of funny--our little services, complete with the dancing, are on a public access channel......and sometimes I get perplexed looks from people at Jewish community events, like, haven't I see you before somewhere? hee hee hee

[Elisheva413]

Ivy,
So, do you take dance classes at a synagogue, not messianic? If so, HOW COOL! I wish I could do that, but there is no dance around where I live....only about 40 minutes south of here, what a bummer! I have wanted to be in a group dancing for sometime. The congregation we formerly attended had about 25 people who danced, when we started. Well, then, ya know, things happen:sick: and we split...and so did most of the dancers. It was so sad. I prayed for a couple of years for more dancers and I just danced with my little girl during worship. It was wonderful, don't get me wrong, but like you said, there is something to worshipping in a group. (And I have been to one conference, it was amazing!) So after whining and praying to the Lord, I realized that He had already given me everything I wanted, it just wasn't being handed to me like I would have liked. I had to put in a bit of effort apparently!:doh: So, I started praying and asking the Lord to bless this, if it is of Him and the next thing I knew, people were coming out thrilled with the prospect of a dance workshop! I am really looking forward to our first meeting which isn't until Feb 11. It should be a very blessed event!

How did your little congregation end up on public access? That is really neat! You have some wonderful connections and doesn't your profile say you are out in the boonies? Those are some blessed boonies my dear!
Shalom~

[Torah]

Do you live or are near Florida? We have a very large Davidic Dance group. They dance at all of the R2J’s they will be dancing at the one coming up in California. The past 2 years they have gone to Carmel Israel it is a week long festival with dance workshops every day. Two of my Children – [20 & 24] have gone and have been certified / licenses as Davidic Dance instructors.

Each Shabbat service we dance around the Torah as one of the Men stands in the center of the circle holding the Torah. This is how we start our service off.



Dance workshop

http://www.kolsimcha.org/dance/ (http://www.kolsimcha.org/dance/)



My two sons are dancing in this pitcher Keith & Daniel.

http://www.kolsimcha.org/dance/pictures/2003/02/PKArizona/ (http://www.kolsimcha.org/dance/pictures/2003/02/PKArizona/)



Messianic Congregation

http://www.kolsimcha.org/ (http://www.kolsimcha.org/)

Photo at bottom has about 75% of the people are from our congregation.

http://www.dancefest.karmiel.israel.net/summer_course.html (http://www.dancefest.karmiel.israel.net/summer_course.html)




Israeli Folk Dance Workshop Info

http://israelifolkdance.tripod.com/id1.html (http://israelifolkdance.tripod.com/id1.html)


“Atlanta Jewish times” printed this about our congregation .

Messianic Jews encroach on Israeli dance workshop at Camp Coleman

By Gabriella Burman
The Jewish Times

http://www.atljewishtimes.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=364 (http://www.atljewishtimes.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=364)


search for Israeli dance workshop

http://search.peoplepc.com/search?q=Israel+dance+workshop&area=earthlink-peoplepc-wssynd&logoURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peoplepc.com%3Freferrer%3Dgoogle&logosrc=http%3A%2F%2Feimg.net%2Fimg%2Fsearch%2Fppc%2Fppc_logo.gif&bgcolor=0033cc&cgid=176&category=search2&segmentID=-1%2C-2%2C-3%2C-4&memberID=-1& (http://search.peoplepc.com/search?q=Israel+dance+workshop&area=earthlink-peoplepc-wssynd&logoURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peoplepc.com%3Freferrer%3Dgoogle&logosrc=http%3A%2F%2Feimg.net%2Fimg%2Fsearch%2Fppc%2Fppc_logo.gif&bgcolor=0033cc&cgid=176&category=search2&segmentID=-1%2C-2%2C-3%2C-4&memberID=-1&)

[Ivy]

No, I live in a very remote area in New York :yawn: Most of what I've learned I picked up from an older lady in our cong. who has been responsible for the dance ministry. (She has an unbelievable memory, and me the young whippersnapper, I'm the one who gets the senior moments. :D ) Also, I've used a couple of the instructional videos that are out there.

I really enjoyed that first picture with all the young gentlemen dancing.......the men really bring something unique, vigorous, lively, to the dance. It's always an inspiring sight.

Elisheva, I really related to some of the things you described......our congregation lessened by about 2/3 when the first rabbi left to make aliyah. It was really quite a shake-up, and some weeks it was only me and my friend up there. But anyway, the kids are growing into teenagers and getting interested, though wouldn't you know my kids are the exception (humph!)--they'll do the hora sometimes, but that's generally it--I guess they think it's "mom's thing."

[Victrixa]

Wow... my thread took on another direction.... :D It's okay, I don't mind. All that Hebraic 'worship' dancing sounds interesting. Never heard of that, as a matter of fact. :)

But still, if other's feel like answering my OP, go ahead. :D

[Elisheva413]

Oh goodness! It sure did, I am sorry! The dancing is such a wonderful expression of praise and it is a blessing to find others who share this joy.
Shalom~

[Victrixa]

Oh goodness! It sure did, I am sorry! The dancing is such a wonderful expression of praise and it is a blessing to find others who share this joy.Shalom~

Heh, no need to apologize. I really don't mind! :D I'm sure glad you found people with whom to share the blessing of dancing for the L-rd with. :thumbsup: You can keep on discussing it in between other posts where other Messianics share their stories of where they worship, how, if in a Messianic congregation or not, etc. :)

[Elisheva413]

Do you live or are near Florida? We have a very large Davidic Dance group. They dance at all of the R2J’s they will be dancing at the one coming up in California. The past 2 years they have gone to Carmel Israel it is a week long festival with dance workshops every day. Two of my Children – [20 & 24] have gone and have been certified / licenses as Davidic Dance instructors.

Each Shabbat service we dance around the Torah as one of the Men stands in the center of the circle holding the Torah. This is how we start our service off.


Torah,
I do not live out there in Florida, but right now I am wishin' I did! Sounds like you have quite a group of dancers out there in your congregation! How wonderful! It seems there is many Messianic congregations out your way...I know of several people in Florida in the Messianic movement. As for me, I am out here in the Pacific Northwest....very beautiful! Well, if you guys (your dance team) are ever coming out my way, drop me a PM as I would love to meet you all! Thanks for all the links to articles, how wonderfully exciting is your ministries in dance!
Shalom~

[plum]

Drastic dream of the day: I think I would be willing to move in order to be a part of a tight, alive, involved Messianic community. I ache for it so much that maybe when I can afford to, I'll move. All I need to know now is where these active communities are and how Biblically sound is their teaching... because the reason I'm not at a Messianic congregation right now is because of one main reason: I strongly disagree with the theology of every single one of the congregations in my state. Ouch. It's hard to get past that.

[yoho]

I might hold a different view than many on ALWAYS having to attend a congregation.


Many people I've noticed in this thread are struggling with the fact that it's hard to FIND a congregation (especially if Messianic). Practically, there simply is not one nearby--or one simply is too far out there in belief to attend.

I can agree in that I want to socialize and be with other Messianics, or I wouldn't be here on this board or involved with other congregations, ministries, etc.

But I don't think at EVERY time in a believer's life, they HAVE to be involved in a Messianic congregation or church. There simply are times when this is NOT possible--and many of you are experiencing that. Or it might be very unwise to attend a certain congregation.

While it was Paul's desire to be with Messianic Jews and other Gentile Christians, I'd note that he wasn't ALWAYS that involved at all with other believers. There's about 10 ? years of Paul's life after he became a believer that is unaccounted for other than that he had some association with Peter and other believers in Jerusalem. Also, Paul had to travel months at a time, and although he preferred taking companions, I'd bet practically speaking--he had to go without a whole congregation for long periods of time.

If you look at Jesus, there's about 30 years of his life unaccounted for, the gospels for the most part start with his MINISTRY and only mention a few things before this. I imagine when he grew up he was probably working a job like everyone else, and preparing for things ahead and for the time He had in mind. He wasn't particularly known by the religious of his day until his ministry--actually Jesus seems largely unknown prior to his ministry by the religious of his day--something I find interesting. Maybe he found it wasn't that wise to hang out certain religious of his day...imagine that.

I'm saying that being with other believers is preferred and the desire of believers, but it is NOT always practical or realistic. Whereas I think it is the desire of believers to fellowship, I don't think believers should have a guilt trip laid on them when it is impractical to attend a congregation.. And sometimes this impracticality exists for years and a long time...unfortunately...

I've been around a lot of believers (and pastors/ministers) that will lay quite a guilt trip on anyone who is not ALWAYS involved in congregation or a ministry. They are like: oh you are not attending congregation or church, therefore you MUST BE BACKSLIDDEN and sinners and/or feel terrible for not being involved.
I've even had believing roomates (for a short time) who tried to lay this load of guilt on me (because they'd see I wasn't attending this church or that one for whatever reason). Because he was going every Sunday and it wasn't for me, he'd assume I was backslidding most of the time (or "rejecting the fellowship"). Nothing could be further from the truth.

It never seems to occur to them that maybe it's not God's time or PRACTICAL at that period of time, for believers to attend THEIR particular church or any church / Messianic congregation at all for that matter.

---

[Misty Minister]

I quit going to the Messianica congregation and now go to the Reform congregation. There is less noise in the channel there.