Is this church Orthodox?

[rainbowbright]

?:scratch:




http://www.holycrossdenver.org/ministries.shtml



I guees I'm unaware of these types of churches. Is this one Orthodox or Catholic?I can't tell

[BabyLutheran]

It looks like an Orthodox type church that is independent minded. They want lead guitarists and bass players for their music ministry. Maybe the founders agree with all the Orthodox doctrine, but want to do worship their own way. I am not necessarily advocating this, but it is intriguing.

I asked about this on another board I used to frequent. What if a church agrees with the doctrinal issues such as the original Nicene Creed, infant baptism, the Pope not being the infallible head of the church, etc, but wanted to worship in a more modern way. I know they wouldn't technically be Orthodox, but what would the Orthodox powers that be think about them?

It sounds like the church in the link may be doing just what I asked about.

I know the pat answer is that the worship service and music is part of being Orthodox, but it has not remained 100% unchanged over the centuries, look at the Russian influences on the music, etc. So please give me more than just that as your explanation.

Not trying to start an argument, I am just interested in your viewpoints. I don't necessarily advocate it, but I can understand why people would think it would work and be more appealing to converts.

Yours in Christ, and chief among sinners,

Mike

[BabyLutheran]

Just wanted to add that I am asking this because I have a spouse who probably would agree with the doctrine part of being Orthodox, but she just hated the DL when she visited with because it is so strange to a Protestant. I am yearning to figure out how to bridge the gap with her, and that's why I asked the question.

[rainbowbright]

I think I agree with your viewpoints. I don't know why they think that they can change the worship just to fit today's society. If you read the whole site, it says the priest also lives a wordly life and so, therefore knows how to deal with wordly issues. I do't agree with liberalism since it is what I just ran away from in the Episcopal church and this just proves that it's happening in our church as well.I won't judge them, but if that is what makes them happy, then BLAHHHHH

[rainbowbright]

Just wanted to add that I am asking this because I have a spouse who probably would agree with the doctrine part of being Orthodox, but she just hated the DL when she visited with because it is so strange to a Protestant. I am yearning to figure out how to bridge the gap with her, and that's why I asked the question.
You could always try the western rite. It was taken out of the Episcopal prayer book and corrected by the Metropolitan of Russia in like 1905. It is exactly like the Catholic church pre vatican II. I also just found out that my husband's uncle was the one who started the movement towards western orthodoxy.

[Monica, child of God]

Holy Cross Orthodox Catholic Church is a Western Rite Parish. Our worship service will seem familiar to most Roman Catholics, Episcopalians and Lutherans. Our church uses the restored Roman Rite Liturgy as was done circa 1,000 AD, translated to contemporary English from Latin. Conforming with ancient Western Tradition, Holy Cross Orthodox Catholic Church utilizes a variety of instruments, vocalists, and hymns in our reverent and beautiful worship, including the very best of both ancient and contemporary music. Children are always welcome for all services at the Church.

Its Western Rite. The Western Rite mission that I visited used an organ.

M.

[The Prokeimenon!]

I don't think they're Orthodox or Catholic. They're part of the "The Holy Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church of America- Former Exarchate of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria in America" which, to the best of my knowledge is in communion with nobody.

I could be wrong, though.

There are Western Rite Orthodox Churches out there which are fully canonical. I'd remcommend checking one out before going to this other parish.

Rdr. Moses

[Orthosdoxa]

This is NOT an Orthodox Church, if they use rock music during Liturgy. Anyone can hang out a shingle and call themselves Orthodox, but that doesn't mean they're in organic communion with the Body that was founded at Pentecost.

[Orthosdoxa]

Hi baby! We were posting at the same time! :kiss:

[robotneil]

Ahh young love!

[Orthosdoxa]

http://aggreen.net/other_orthodox/other.html

[Monica, child of God]

Ooops, I didn't check the canonicity. sorry :sorry:

M.

[rainbowbright]

Hi baby! We were posting at the same time! :kiss:

How sweet!!!!

[Orthosdoxa]

Ahh young love!

hehehe...we've been married almost two years. :)

[The Prokeimenon!]

Hi baby! We were posting at the same time! :kiss:

Hehe! Cool! Love you!

[BabyLutheran]

Hey Anonykat! Were you possibly referring to me when you said "baby";).

Good to see you on the board again!

[robotneil]

hehehe...we've been married almost two years. :)

Ooops ,my bad! haha

[Orthosdoxa]

Hey Anonykat! Were you possibly referring to me when you said "baby";).



hardee har har!!! :D

For anyone who's new to Orthodoxy, do check out the link to the Al Green page. There are a lot of wolves in sheeps' clothing out there, and we must be vigilant.

[BabyLutheran]

I am so embarassed! It took me a couple of minutes to catch on-oops:blush:

[The Prokeimenon!]

Hey Anonykat! Were you possibly referring to me when you said "baby";).

Good to see you on the board again!

Hands off! She's MINE! :D

Okay I'll stop hijackng the thread now.

Rdr Moses

ps- for the record, Anonykat and I are married. :)

[rainbowbright]

I don't think they're Orthodox or Catholic. They're part of the "The Holy Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church of America- Former Exarchate of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria in America" which, to the best of my knowledge is in communion with nobody.

I could be wrong, though.

There are Western Rite Orthodox Churches out there which are fully canonical. I'd remcommend checking one out before going to this other parish.

Rdr. Moses

My husband's uncle founded a western-rite church, which is in full communion and my husband and I are going to visit it in a few weeks because we are really starting to miss the Mass and just need a fix.

[The Prokeimenon!]

My husband's uncle founded a western-rite church, which is in full communion and my husband and I are going to visit it in a few weeks because we are really starting to miss the Mass and just need a fix.

Wonderful! The Western Rite Liturgy is beautiful. I don't know much about it- just been to a handful, but it was neat.

I'm told it's alot like pre-Vatican II Catholic Mass (except in English) and alot like very high-Church Anglican. I don't know if that's true, but that's what I've heard.

Rdr Moses

[rainbowbright]

I was high church Anglican before becoming Orthodox, so while I know a lot about how the worship goes, I'm now used to the eastern-rite and don't think I would beable to cross myself from left to right anymore, or at least at a quick pace.

This other church in Denver apparently isn't Orthodox because after the Christmas eve service, they're going to be eating roast beef.

[The Prokeimenon!]

I ... don't think I would beable to cross myself from left to right anymore...

I'm pretty sure that Western Riters cross themselves the Orthodox way. But I'm not sure if they all do or just the one's I've met.

Rdr Moses

[rainbowbright]

I read an article on the wetsern-rite site and they said they cross themselves as catholics do so as not to make a show of themselves (they think eastern rite over does it with the crossing)

http://www.westernorthodox.com/customs

This is written by my relative:
http://www.westernorthodox.com/young

[MariaRegina]

I read an article on the wetsern-rite site and they said they cross themselves as catholics do so as not to make a show of themselves (they think eastern rite over does it with the crossing)

http://www.westernorthodox.com/customs

This is written by my relative:
http://www.westernorthodox.com/young


Wow, your husband is related to Father Alexi Young?

How is Father doing these days?

[rainbowbright]

Wow, your husband is related to Father Alexi Young?

How is Father doing these days?

Yes, my husband is his nephew. I'll get to meet him soon since he's coming home, I'm real excited. I assume he's doing well, since we haven't heard anything for a while.

[ufonium2]

I read an article on the wetsern-rite site and they said they cross themselves as catholics do so as not to make a show of themselves (they think eastern rite over does it with the crossing)


I think that's a little presumptious (of them, not you). I mean, who are they to judge why anyone is doing anything? Besides, the most elaborate crossers I know are straight-off-the-boat Russians, who've been doing it their whole lives, so you'd think they'd be tired of showing off by now, if that's what they were doing.

I get this tone a lot from the Western Rite stuff, this "We're practicing authentic Western Christianity; you guys are playing Greek/Russian/Arab." My ancestors weren't Catholic, and they weren't High Church Anglican. Even if they were, I never was. I have no more connection to that liturgy than I do to a Muslim service (I take that back. My grandma's Turkish, so I'm probably more connected to the Muslim service.)

It just seems like they could be a whole lot less defensive (and generally snooty) about what they're doing. Elitism hasn't gotten the Episcopal church anywhere lately.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Member Parish of the Archdiocese of New York

The Holy Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church of America

Former Exarchate of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria in America

Metropolitan Archbishop Anthony Bondi


HUH?

Reading their "worship" page sounds like reading from a very, very liberal Roman Catholic or Anglican source. These people are NOT Orthodox.

[Yiannis550]

I was going to type a lengthy letter about my oppinion on the way we warship and the modernization of it, but then I remembered this website that someone posted in another thread.
http://www.thewillardpreacher.com/ProtestantRockandRollWorship.htm

Read this and whatever he says I agree!

[Michael the Iconographer]

I was going to type a lengthy letter about my oppinion on the way we warship and the modernization of it, but then I remembered this website that someone posted in another thread.
http://www.thewillardpreacher.com/ProtestantRockandRollWorship.htm

Read this and whatever he says I agree!

That website is very well stated.

[rainbowbright]

I was going to type a lengthy letter about my oppinion on the way we warship and the modernization of it, but then I remembered this website that someone posted in another thread.
http://www.thewillardpreacher.com/ProtestantRockandRollWorship.htm

Read this and whatever he says I agree!

I also agree with this article. On a side note, Being that I studied classical music in college, I read somewhere that classical music, or the like is pleasing to us because the rhythm goes with our heartbeat, whereas the rhythm of rock music goes against our heartbeat and for some reason, that can make us go crazy. I don't know if this is true, but I just remember reading about it and it might be something these churches will want to think about.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I also agree with this article. On a side note, Being that I studied classical music in college, I read somewhere that classical music, or the like is pleasing to us because the rhythm goes with our heartbeat, whereas the rhythm of rock music goes against our heartbeat and for some reason, that can make us go crazy. I don't know if this is true, but I just remember reading about it and it might be something these churches will want to think about.

Can you explain that further?

[ufonium2]

Can you explain that further?

I think maybe she's talking about something Rameau said in one of his treatises, that dance suites should have proportionate tempos, and that those should be based on the heartbeat. So a certain dance would have the same tempo as the heartbeat, and the others in the suite would have tempos that were multiples of the first. Not sure, but that's the only thing I can think of.

[rainbowbright]

I think maybe she's talking about something Rameau said in one of his treatises, that dance suites should have proportionate tempos, and that those should be based on the heartbeat. So a certain dance would have the same tempo as the heartbeat, and the others in the suite would have tempos that were multiples of the first. Not sure, but that's the only thing I can think of.

I think you're right, but I read it so long ago, I can't remember. I'll see if I can dig something up but it may take me a while since I have to get my kids off to bed.

[Shubunkin]

I am so sick of attending churches with rock 'n roll music. Though I don't mind some rock 'n roll music in my living room, it just isn't right for worship. Call me an old stick-in-the-mud, or whatever, but that is the way I am. :P

[rainbowbright]

I am so sick of attending churches with rock 'n roll music. Though I don't mind some rock 'n roll music in my living room, it just isn't right for worship. Call me an old stick-in-the-mud, or whatever, but that is the way I am. :P

I agree, I listen to rock music at home, especially when I get sick of classical, but I don't think it is at all apropriate for church. People seem to think I'm odd since I'm only 26 and I don't go in for that kind of thing