I'm a catholic seminarian

[graysparrow]

Hi all

I am a Catholic seminarian and I know very few about the methodist, in Canary Islands we don't have so many denominations and I never seen a methodist church, though there might be one somewhere.

Anyway, I am now doing a deep exercise on faith and I would like to know what the methodist teach about:

Salvation. Are you calvinist, osas or... How do you get saved? Could non christian go to heaven?

The Lord's Supper. Is it just a symbol or something more? If it is a symbol of what?

What about the poor? Is it something good for a Christian to do or a radical obligation?

Is the Bible to be interpreted in a radical historical way? I mean, are we OBLIGED to believe that the creation, the flood, the patriacs, etc happened EXACTLY as they were written in Genesis?

Are the events recorded in the NT historical?

Which is the main duty of being a Christian?

.....
I know these questions are just a tiny scratch in the iceberg, but I have to start somewhere :blush:

Thanks!

[5stringJeff]

Hey Graysparrow,

I'm Nazarene, not Methodist, but I'll certainly take my best shot at your questions (any fellow Naz. member, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

Salvation. Are you calvinist, osas or... How do you get saved? Could non christian go to heaven?

I believe the Nazarene Church teaches OSAS.

The Lord's Supper. Is it just a symbol or something more? If it is a symbol of what?

Nazarenes believe that the Lord's Supper is symbolic, i.e. not the actual blood and body, but a representation thereof.

What about the poor? Is it something good for a Christian to do or a radical obligation?

Nazarenes are actually quite involved in what we call "Compassionate Ministries," which are our ministries to the poor and underprivledged. We consider it part of the Christian duty.

Is the Bible to be interpreted in a radical historical way? I mean, are we OBLIGED to believe that the creation, the flood, the patriacs, etc happened EXACTLY as they were written in Genesis?

I believe that the Nazarene church allows for different interpretations by individual members on such matters. So if I wanted to believe in a literal 6-day creation, but my friend wants to believe in a 12-billion year creation, there's no conflict with official church doctrine.

Are the events recorded in the NT historical?

Yes, absolutely so.

Which is the main duty of being a Christian?

To live a holy and sinless life, which a Christian is able to do through the power of the Holy Spirit.

[contriteheart]

Based on the answers above, I think that Methodists would differ somewhat from Nazarenes on a few of those questions, but I'll let a more experienced Methodist come along and tell you how.

Blessed Advent!

With love in Christ,
Grace

[graysparrow]

thanks

[alaurie]

'k, I'll try ;) ...most off the top of my head. I've been learning about John Wesley's and UMC theology recently and am no seminarian but will give it a go.

One important thing to remember in learning about Methodists is that John Wesley and his brother Charles were always Anglican priests and did not intend to form a new denomination. They're Anglican Saints and share a feast day on March 3rd.

Nice page for their day.
http://www.satucket.com/lectionary/Wesley.htm


Salvation. Are you calvinist, osas or... How do you get saved? Could non christian go to heaven?

Are you calvinist, osas
Most Methodists aren't calvinist, osas though a few are.

ClementofRome is a Whitefield Methodist (Calvinist) and is a seminary prof so can better fill you in on that view.

How do you get saved?

Short answer :)

Prevenient Grace followed by belief in Jesus, then sanctification by the Holy Spirit.

Could non christian go to heaven?

This one I enjoyed looking up. I know what I believe (largely influenced by C. S. Lewis) and am happy to find that it fits this scholar's conclusions about Wesley's beliefs.

http://wesley.nnu.edu/wesleyan_theology/theojrnl/26-30/27.1.htm
There has been an ongoing debate in Wesley scholarship over whether Wesley believed that human beings could have knowledge of God apart from God's definitive revelation in Jesus Christ. We would suggest that this debate results more from an inappropriate framing of the question than from ambiguities in Wesley. The debate has typically been framed in terms of whether Wesley affirmed a "natural revelation" or a "natural theology."40 Behind such designations is the assumption that any universal knowledge of God available through consideration of the world and human life would necessarily be "natural" knowledge rather than "gracious" knowledge.
It is not surprising that the question is frequently framed this way, because the polarization of "nature" and "grace" has increasingly characterized Western theology, becoming definitive of much of Protestantism.41 Thus, when Wesley is read in a Protestant paradigm (as is most common), he is forced toward one or the other of opposing alternatives: either he is assumed to affirm that humans can have some knowledge of God apart from grace, or he is read to deny the existence of any significant knowledge outside of definitive Christian revelation.

By contrast with later Western theology, many early Greek theologians avoided such polarization. They made no absolute separation between "general" and "Christian" revelation. They saw both as based in God's grace, with God's revelation in Christ establishing and completing divine revelation in creation.42 Wesley's convictions about revelation appear to be more in line with such early Greek perspectives than with late Western theology. He too came to affirm that there is a basic knowledge of God universally available to those who have not heard of Christ, while insisting that this knowledge is itself an expression of God's gracious activity epitomized in the revelation of Christ.43

The Lord's Supper. Is it just a symbol or something more? If it is a symbol of what?

It's not just a symbol. Jesus is present but His Presence is a mystery.

What about the poor? Is it something good for a Christian to do or a radical obligation?

Radical obligation ...a renewed focus on service and Communion was actually how Wesley's Methodist movement started while John Wesley was an Anglican theology student at Oxford.

Is the Bible to be interpreted in a radical historical way? I mean, are we OBLIGED to believe that the creation, the flood, the patriacs, etc happened EXACTLY as they were written in Genesis?

Are the events recorded in the NT historical?

NT is historical, but no to radical, historical interpretation of all of Scripture is required.

The Wesley's emphasized the importance of Scripture, Tradition, Reason, and Experience in their theology.

Which is the main duty of being a Christian?

Sanctification. Thanks to contriteHeart and AquilaGT's recent posts, I'm learning Wesley's teaching of Entire Sanctification has it's roots in Orthodox theology.


Thank you so much for asking!

God bless,
Laurie

[ContraMundum]

Hey Graysparrow,

I'm Nazarene, not Methodist, but I'll certainly take my best shot at your questions (any fellow Naz. member, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm not a Nazarene myself, but I am studying their stance in much detail at the moment, so I'd like to chip in here, if you will kindly allow me.

I believe the Nazarene Church teaches OSAS.

With respect, the Nazarene church denies OSAS.

From the Nazarene articles of Faith:

"We believe that all persons, though in the possession of the experience of regeneration and entire sanctification, may fall from grace and apostatize and, unless they repent of their sins, be hopelessly and eternally lost." (Art VII)

To live a holy and sinless life, which a Christian is able to do through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Amen! That's the whole point of Methodism and its many wonderful children! The Nazarenes have taught this faithfully throughout.

[ContraMundum]

One important thing to remember in learning about Methodists is that John Wesley and his brother Charles were always Anglican priests and did not intend to form a new denomination. They're Anglican Saints and share a feast day on March 3rd.

Nice page for their day.
http://www.satucket.com/lectionary/Wesley.htm

As an Anglican minister in a traditionalist parish, I can honestly say that we don't celebrate this day in our parish but should. I'm pushing for it.

alaurie, this entire post of yours was outstanding. Thank you again. I can't seem to add to your reputation though, but just know that I appreciate your contribution greatly.

[alaurie]

As an Anglican minister in a traditionalist parish, I can honestly say that we don't celebrate this day in our parish but should. I'm pushing for it.

alaurie, this entire post of yours was outstanding. Thank you again. I can't seem to add to your reputation though, but just know that I appreciate your contribution greatly.


:blush: Thanks! Seems like we've been getting lots of questions in WP lately, and I'm enjoying so much learning from them and from the posts of my well informed WP friends!

Go for it with the Wesleys' Saint Day and keep us up to date on how it goes. :)

[AquilaGT]

I'll be happy to take a stab at answering these, but bear in mind that the Methodist movement is large and international, so it might be hard to have a simple answer that applies to all Methodists, so I'll give you my perception as to what most Methodists believe.



Question - Salvation. Are you calvinist, osas or... How do you get saved? Could non christian go to heaven?

Answer - Methodists are not Calvinist, we are Arminian. We do not believe in predestination, we believe God gives us the gift of freewill to accept or reject God. And if osas means once saved always saved, no Methodist or Wesleyan denomination would teach that (Methodist, Nazarene, etc) because freewill also means we can also renounce our faith and walk away.

Salvation comes from accepting Christ as Saviour by faith.

Most Methodists would believe Jesus statement in John 14 that no one comes to God except thru Jesus, so if God in God's mercy accepts a "non-christian" into to heaven, it would still have to some how be thru the sacrifice of Jesus.



Question - The Lord's Supper. Is it just a symbol or something more? If it is a symbol of what?

Answer - Wesley was an Anglican priest, so Methodist belief about Holy Communion is similar to Anglican. It is a means of grace in which there is the Real Presence of Christ (Jesus is really there so it is more than just a remembrance of Christ) but we do not believe that the elements actually become the body and blood of Christ.





Question - What about the poor? Is it something good for a Christian to do or a radical obligation?

Answer - Wesley put much focus on putting faith into action, and he set the example with works of mercy for the poor and disadvantaged, and his opposition to slavery. William Booth of the Salvation Army was originally a Methodist, the Methodists have strong Social Principles in our Book of Discipline, and UMCOR (United Methodist Committee on Relief) is the organization that best exemplifies this today. Definitely an obligation.





Question - Is the Bible to be interpreted in a radical historical way? I mean, are we OBLIGED to believe that the creation, the flood, the patriacs, etc happened EXACTLY as they were written in Genesis?

Answer - Methodists will have a wide variety of interpretations, and like Anglicans will use Tradition and Reason to interpret Scripture. Despite the variety of interpretations, all Methodists would agree that the Bible is authoritative for how Christians should live their lives.




Question - Are the events recorded in the NT historical?

Answer - Virtually all Methodists would say YES.




Question - Which is the main duty of being a Christian?

Answer - to make disciples of Christ and to live a holy life (Wesley emphasized the process of growing in holy living called sanctification).

[AquilaGT]

Great post Laurie.

It is really cool to have a place to discuss these sort of things within the Wesleyan family and with our sisters and brothers of other traditions.

[Qyöt27]

I'll go ahead and pitch in my 2 cents as well, even though many of the points have been covered already. I rack it up to the flexibility allowed within Methodism. Please note that these are simply my views on these topics, and may not necessarily represent those of many other potential posters or members of the UMC or other Wesleyan denominations. It might also be worth noting that I became very interested in Catholicism earlier this year and last year, and in reading more my views on certain issues changed from what I had been raised to believe.

Salvation. Are you calvinist, osas or... How do you get saved? Could non christian go to heaven?
The UMC does not teach once saved, always saved, but you may find people who believe that. Commonly you'll see it expressed that Salvation can be rejected by the person at a later date, but there is also particular emphasis that Salvation is not something that can be easily 'lost', but requires an active, vehement rejection. I'm pretty undecided on how one gets saved, as I don't adhere to the concept of total depravity, which seems to be the central issue soteriological debates stem from. To put it simply, when one understands the depth of Christ's sacrifice at Calvary, they are presented with a choice to either accept or deny it. Issues of destiny don't really come into my mind, although I do believe there are certain events in a person's life which are inevitable.

In regards to non-Christians, the judgement is ultimately left up to God. Not all self-professed Christians will make it into Heaven, and there are certainly non-Christians who lead lives of righteousness even in the absense of Christianity. God will judge accordingly.

The Lord's Supper. Is it just a symbol or something more? If it is a symbol of what?
As has been stated, it's viewed as a mystery, and more than just a symbol. I personally neither affirm nor deny Transubstantiation, Consubstantiation, or other Presence-type beliefs.

What about the poor? Is it something good for a Christian to do or a radical obligation?
It is the charge of the Christian to assist in promoting and supporting society and helping those in need.

Is the Bible to be interpreted in a radical historical way? I mean, are we OBLIGED to believe that the creation, the flood, the patriacs, etc happened EXACTLY as they were written in Genesis?
This will be a point of contention in almost any church, and likewise, there are many different camps present in Methodism. I personally don't care either way, as the important thing that comes out of Genesis and the other passages is the why, not the how and when (assuming this question is only directed towards parts of the Old Testament which are famous for being criticized for historacity). For the record, though, I do accept that the Earth is some 4 billion years old and that evolution occurred through whatever means, but I don't rest on my faith on that point - likewise, I'm pretty certain that the flood is an ancient memory of the proposed Euxine Deluge, which explains why many other civilizations in South Asia and throughout Mesopotamia and Europe have extremely similar flood stories, but it's not something that I hold so dearly that my faith would crumble should that idea be destroyed. I certainly believe that adhering to Literalism is very dangerous, particularly in light of the derision and strife it's caused within Christianity over the past 100 years at least.

Are the events recorded in the NT historical?
Yes. Whereas the actual events in Genesis have largely been lost to the mysts of time, the atmosphere of the society at the time of Christ and the Apostles is very hard to dismiss as mere fiction, or a strongly-held myth (in the correct context of the word 'myth'). Viewing the events of the NT that way can very easily lead into problems like Gnosticism and the like, which have always been traditionally renounced as heresies.

Which is the main duty of being a Christian?
To serve the Lord to the absolute best of your ability, and be a light to those in darkness.

[graysparrow]

thanks again

One more question:

What is the Church? do you baptize converts from other christian faiths?

I know I am making a lot of questions, but really never seen a methodist in my life, afaik

[Qyöt27]

thanks again

One more question:

What is the Church? do you baptize converts from other christian faiths?

I know I am making a lot of questions, but really never seen a methodist in my life, afaik
I'm not sure about other Wesleyan denominations, but the UMC recognizes the baptisms of other Christian traditions as valid (although the doctrinal stance may differ greatly; Methodists have more in common with Anglicans and Catholics regarding baptism than they do Baptists or possibly Pentecostals, especially since I think it's safe to say that most Methodists believe in infant baptism - it is official practice in the UMC, though).

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'what is the Church?' though. I'd say it depends on context, but most would probably agree that 'the Church' generally serves as a synonym for the Body of Christ. I am aware that 'the Church' is often used to refer specifically to the Catholic Church, which is why I said I wasn't sure of what you were asking.

Although this won't necessarily cover every single question a person might have, this answers quite a bit of them:
http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=16&mid=1244

(If I seem to be harping on the UMC, it's only because that's the only one I have experience to speak of with, and don't want to speak in an authoritative manner if I really don't have the facts right about other Wesleyan denominations)

[5stringJeff]

I'm not a Nazarene myself, but I am studying their stance in much detail at the moment, so I'd like to chip in here, if you will kindly allow me.



With respect, the Nazarene church denies OSAS.

From the Nazarene articles of Faith:

"We believe that all persons, though in the possession of the experience of regeneration and entire sanctification, may fall from grace and apostatize and, unless they repent of their sins, be hopelessly and eternally lost." (Art VII)



Amen! That's the whole point of Methodism and its many wonderful children! The Nazarenes have taught this faithfully throughout.

Thank you for your correction. I have only officially been a Nazarene for a couple of years, so I thought that I might be wrong on that one.

[Artos]

If you get a chance to read these, it might help. Most are available through http://www.Amazon.com website.

Colin Williams: John Wesley's theology
Albert Outler: John Wesley
Dennis Campbell: Yoke of Obedience (re ordination)
Lorna Khoo: Wesleyan Eucharistic spirituality (re Communion)
Ted Campbell: Apostolate of United Methodism
Richard P Heitzenrater: The Elusive Mr Wesley Part I ( life of John Wesley)
Frank Baker: John Wesley and the Church of England (Methodist and Anglican roots)
Hope this helps.

[graysparrow]

Thanks Artos :)