Do you think Luther is cool with the Lutheran Church

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

I guess people think my post is strange so i will word it a little diffrently. Do you think Luther would aprove of the church and why?

UPDATE
For real Brothers and Sisters i was asking a simple and small question i was not trying to throw wood on the fire.
I felt the need to ask becouse my Wifes grandparents are Luthern and dont belive in John 3:16 why i have no clue there very good people and the lord knows that he searches the heart i see no true fruit tho.
If i said that my Church leaders are still goin strong it would be a lie my Church leader is alive and well but last i saw him he had a nice trump like look if you know what i mean but hes an awsome Pastor still but kinda asleep in the light.
My question was not ment to split people into two diffrent groups and to those of you that may think it was just look how simple it was.
So to those of you i may have offended I BEG for your forgiveness your my Brothers and Sisters in Christ and i love you all.
Please if any thing dont argue about this post those of you who said i would be banned for asking such a simple question i will gladly leave if you ask me to im sorry.
I cant wait to be with Jesus and when im there crying more tears my my old human body could ever had i will be with you all
So i guess i just felt like asking this question becouse sometimes im asleep in the light forgive me Lord.
I have made a promise to the lord that on the eve of Christ birthday (the way i love to say Christimas in Sears) i will go to the homeless shelter and pose as a homeless man to see there fruitfullness so i can test if i should teach to the homeless there or if they are already in the word.
I was homeless when i was 16 so when i got Saved this was something the lord put on my heart to do after all there worth more than my soul lord im weak when there strong lord.
So i close asking for your prayers that my family will accept me not being home on the eve of Christ birthday and the most important that Christ will use me in his way not mine please Lord keep the venom my mouth spews out and you loving words in Lord

[Jim47]

I just wondered does any luthern know what Martin nailed to that church door i do and i think if he knew hes name was a Trademark like Mcdonalds hed be a little upset even the things he taught against the lutheran church does ??? plz mail me if you need data on backing this up becouse i will prob not check this post agian ty.
O and ps JESUS ROCKS throw that on a church name


Rather a strange post. :scratch: And what is the point of the post if you have no intentions of checking the replies.

[ctay]

I thought it was a strange post too.

[Tetzel]

What was nailed to the door in Wittenberg is not what Luther and the other organizers of the Evangelical movement made into the confessions of the Evangelical Church. A far more influential document for what Luther believed in would be the Heidelberg Disputation

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

THATS nice but would he agree?????:confused: What was nailed to the door in Wittenberg is not what Luther and the other organizers of the Evangelical movement made into the confess the confessions of the Evangelical Church. A far more influential document for what Luther believed in would be the Heidelberg Disputation

[filosofer]

Well, it is good for us that Luther isn't the determiner of where we are...:) God is.

And "Lutheran" was a name given to those who confessed the faith by their opponents.

And we are not followers of Luther. And if that were true, yes, Luther would be upset. But even worse, our faith would be placed in the wrong person. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. That was Paul's confession of the faith, that was Luther's confession of the faith, and that is our confession of the faith.

In Christ's love,
filo

[Tetzel]

Yes

[filosofer]

If you read his works you will understand that the answer is NO (Woman as the head of man Woman Pastors in the Luthern church)

Im not bangin on Lutherns cept the fact that Luther would deff not be happy but i cant speak most all great church leaders have the holy house branded with there name (Like a shrine)


I would say that you know less about Lutherans than you are trying to show.

Do you know the differences between the ELCA (and internationally the Lutheran World Federation) and other Lutherans? Your statement above indicates that you do not.

So, do you have a question, or are you going to lump us all together and bash us?

In Christ's love,
filo

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

1st off im not bashing you at all maby a few leaders and im not even bashing them im just asking a question that a simple 1 at that in search off a simple answer
I would say that you know less about Lutherans than you are trying to show.

Do you know the differences between the ELCA (and internationally the Lutheran World Federation) and other Lutherans? Your statement above indicates that you do not.

So, do you have a question, or are you going to lump us all together and bash us?

In Christ's love,
filo

[Jim47]

1st off im not bashing you at all maby a few leaders and im not even bashing them im just asking a question that a simple 1 at that in search off a simple answer


Be advised that you are a guest in this forum, and you have to abide by the rules posted above, which means you don't bash us, not that I care, but if we have to obey rules than you should too.

So try making a "real statement" and tell us what you don't like about Lutheran teachings.

[BigNorsk]

Well, the Lutheran church is not monolithic so it's hard to throw everyone into the same boat.

I think Luther would be quite pleased with some Lutherans and not so pleased with others.

If you really wanted to set Luther off you'd show him some nothing but grace non-denominational. A congregation that doesn't accept authority outside their own and doesn't know how to preach law and grace. I'd pay good money to be able to read what Luther would say.

The ministers you see in some places that are ordained without so much as a college level class in theology, that would be a good one too.

And I can't even imagine the words he would have for all the newly declared apostles running around in some circles.

I think he'd be happy to see some of the things that have happened in the Roman Catholic church and disappointed that more hasn't changed for the better. But I think he would actually find other things to write about before he would turn the Roman church again.

So I think he wouldn't be totally happy with some of the Lutherans but they'd probably be pretty safe the first couple of years before he worked hi way down to them.

Marv

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

LOL i care less if im a guest in this forum i just wanted to know and ya i agree with another person in this post he would be plzed with some but not others im not KNOCKIN MY BROS AND SITAS im just asking a question

PS have you seen how luke warm it is on the forum report me bro im sry you feal bad but maby this site is not all that if we focus on bein rude

Be advised that you are a guest in this forum, and you have to abide by the rules posted above, which means you don't bash us, not that I care, but if we have to obey rules than you should too.

So try making a "real statement" and tell us what you don't like about Lutheran teachings.

[Jim47]

LOL i care less if im a guest in this forum i just wanted to know and ya i agree with another person in this post he would be plzed with some but not others im not KNOCKIN MY BROS AND SITAS im just asking a question

PS have you seen how luke warm it is on the forum report me bro im sry you feal bad but maby this site is not all that if we focus on bein rude


No one here has been rude to you, we simply ask that you abide by forum rules.

Please see the forum rules posted above and start acticg like the Christian you claim to be.

ps: It wouldn't hurt to get out a dictionary as well, your spelling is so bad I can barely understand what you say.

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

NOW that is a good 1 right there no one is being rude to you but my spelling is bad well ty school teacher im so sry plz give me a c and i did abide by forum rules if you think i have not then report me i care less
PS nice christian insult on your own christian brotherNo one here has been rude to you, we simply ask that you abide by forum rules.

Please see the forum rules posted above and start acticg like the Christian you claim to be.

ps: It wouldn't hurt to get out a dictionary as well, your spelling is so bad I can barely understand what you say.

[SPALATIN]

1st off im not bashing you at all maby a few leaders and im not even bashing them im just asking a question that a simple 1 at that in search off a simple answer

Yes, but by the nature of the post prior to this one, the one that filosofer replied you were intimating that ALL Lutherans approved of female pastors. In the USA there are 2 major synods and about 4 or 5 minor synods of Lutherans. The largest, the ELCA was formed by a merger of 3 synods in 1988. The American Lutheran Church, the Lutheran Church in America and the American Evangelical Lutheran Church (formerly part of Missouri Synod) were the three groups that formed the ELCA. This group has ordained women pastors since it's inception and the ALC and LCA were ordaining women before that.

The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod,The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, and the old Norwegian Synod no known as the Evangelical Lutheran Synod do not ordain nor do they approve of ordaining women as it is not scriptural.

So please do some homework before you come asking a question about whether Luther would approve what is going on in the church for which his name hangs.

[SPALATIN]

NOW that is a good 1 right there no one is being rude to you but my spelling is bad well ty school teacher im so sry plz give me a c and i did abide by forum rules if you think i have not then report me i care less
PS nice christian insult on your own christian brother

You wouldn't know an insult if it bit you in the nose. No one here has insulted you though I kind of wish they had because maybe you would take your ignorance and go. You didn't have any intention of coming here to bond with us and your question is ignorant of what the fact are. So if this constitutes as an insult I am glad that I was able to oblige you. They say that ignorance is bliss so you must be ecstatic.

[BigNorsk]

In the US, the ELCA is the image of Lutheranism. The WELS and LCMS are so afraid of anything that someone might call unionism or sycretism they are by and large absent from the news scene. So the ELCA stands up and says Lutherans believe and the others say they'll tell people but only if they can have the place all to themselves.

Result is that in the minds of most ELCA=Lutheran.

If you don't like it, go out and spread the message in your own backyard. Don't tell people to do their homework. That's like a missionary telling the people he is sent to that they have been lazy or they should have known all about Jesus years ago. How is that helpful? Why are personal attacks mixed in with even the first posts.

I thought someone who calls Lutherans brothers was a step up to the position of many others. Better hammer at this guy until he quits that.

Marv

[Jim47]

In the US, the ELCA is the image of Lutheranism. The WELS and LCMS are so afraid of anything that someone might call unionism or sycretism they are by and large absent from the news scene. So the ELCA stands up and says Lutherans believe and the others say they'll tell people but only if they can have the place all to themselves.

Result is that in the minds of most ELCA=Lutheran.

If you don't like it, go out and spread the message in your own backyard. Don't tell people to do their homework. That's like a missionary telling the people he is sent to that they have been lazy or they should have known all about Jesus years ago. How is that helpful? Why are personal attacks mixed in with even the first posts.

I thought someone who calls Lutherans brothers was a step up to the position of many others. Better hammer at this guy until he quits that.

Marv


Nice slam Marv :sigh:

Now lets take a look at the message that the ELCA is preaching:

ELCA decides for itself whether or not they will accept God's Word as written, using sinful human logic to make that determination. :cry:

ELCA appluades home sexual relations and even allows them to be ministers :cry:

Is this the message that you are so proud of sharing with others?

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

Good one :thumbsup: Nice slam Marv :sigh:

Now lets take a look at the message that the ELCA is preaching:

ELCA decides for itself whether or not they will accept God's Word as written, using sinful human logic to make that determination. :cry:

ELCA appluades home sexual relations and even allows them to be ministers :cry:

Is this the message that you are so proud of sharing with others?

[Protoevangel]

Good one :thumbsup:
Ahh, the hand of peace?

savedbyfaithinchrist, most Lutheran Synods are not for those issues you brought up. You are absolutely correct in stating that Luther would not be happy having his name associated with those stances.

Just so you know, the reason for the standdoffish responce you got, is most likely that the very issues you mentioned are often hotly debated here. Those on the "traditionalist" or "conservative" side of the issues can tend to get tired of being confused with the people on the "revisionist" or "liberal" side. If your questions and comments were indeed in good faith, I hope you can now understand and forgive the responces you recieved. Most of us here are in full agreement with you that Luther would not want to be associated with much of what is taught as "Lutheranism" in this day and age. But please do understand, that which you see as inconsistent with Christianity is quite possibly only what one group who (right or wrong) calls themselves "Lutheran" may teach. Stick around, and participate here, you may be surprized at what you learn about modern Lutherans.

[filosofer]

If your questions and comments were indeed in good faith, I hope you can now understand and forgive the responces you recieved.


Forgive? I guess that means that I sinned? :scratch: The red font must indicate that it is the liturgical color of "perceived probable intent of sinning"?

I can not recant, unless I am shown from the clear testimony of Scripture, ...
oh wait, that was the other guy. ;)


Stick around, and participate here, you may be surprized at what you learn about modern Lutherans.

Yeah, we are not always grumpy.

===========


Seriously, if someone wants to engage in discussion, then let it be so. But the OP (now edited) indicated that he had no intention of coming back and reading responses.


plz mail me if you need data on backing this up becouse i will prob not check this post agian ty.


In good Lutheran terminology, What does this mean?

In Christ's love,
filo

[Protoevangel]

Forgive? I guess that means that I sinned? :scratch: The red font must indicate that it is the liturgical color of "perceived probable intent of sinning"?

I can not recant, unless I am shown from the clear testimony of Scripture, ...
oh wait, that was the other guy. ;)
I don't think anyone really did anything wrong here, beyond simple misunderstanding. If feelings were hurt because of these misunderstandings, I think 'forgiveness' may be in order (from those who were hurt), even when no apology or repentance is really necessary (because no one tried to hurt, but only defend).



Yeah, we are not always grumpy.
Speak for yourself, old-timer! :D


Seriously, if someone wants to engage in discussion, then let it be so. But the OP (now edited) indicated that he had no intention of coming back and reading responses.

In good Lutheran terminology, What does this mean?

In Christ's love,
filo
[/QUOTE]
I read the OP, and I agree. I have seriously put my foot in my mouth before too, by making hasty generalizations. Hopefully now, though, we can get to the heart of what the OP meant to post, and beyond the incorrect assumptions. If however, we see the same kind of intentionally ignorant ranting as we did in the past (ex. with the RC'ers posting about Dennis Rader), I will be happy to hash out the finer details of Lutheran Theological Debate, along with everyone here.


I apologize if I made it sound as if you or anyone had anything to apologize for, that was not my intent. I also apologize if my post was out-of-order in any way. I simply thought that savedbyfaithinchrist may actually have a valid point, now that the misconceptions he came in here with were corrected. Perhaps I should have simply watched the discussion develop instead of being so obtrusive, especially after my absence. If I was indeed wrong, go ahead and let me know, and I will try to be more discerning in the future.

[BigNorsk]

Nice slam Marv :sigh:

Now lets take a look at the message that the ELCA is preaching:

ELCA decides for itself whether or not they will accept God's Word as written, using sinful human logic to make that determination. :cry:

ELCA appluades home sexual relations and even allows them to be ministers :cry:

Is this the message that you are so proud of sharing with others?

I'm not ELCA.

I never said I was proud of the ELCA message.

I simply pointed out that there is no other substantial voice for representing Lutheranism in the US because the LCMS and WELS refuse to, therefore, the image of Lutheranism in the US outside of Lutheran churches is the ELCA.

Frankly I think it's too bad.

Marv

[Jim47]

I simply pointed out that there is no other substantial voice for representing Lutheranism in the US because the LCMS and WELS refuse to, therefore, the image of Lutheranism in the US outside of Lutheran churches is the ELCA.

Frankly I think it's too bad.

Marv


Marv

Thanks for clearing that up. You are wrong though about LCMS and WELS getting out a message. The real question is, "is anyone willing to listen"? My church did a pretty good canvass of a large area of new homes. We found not one person or family that would even visit us. We also have a weekly radio broadcast, that is about all our budget will handle except for some special mailers and a few ads.

Simply because the ELCA is a larger body, means nothing if the message they are preaching is not from scripture. Preaching brotherly love and in the same sentence denying God's Word as being the truth is not being a faithful witness.

[ctay]

It is hard to get anyone to visit. The church I go to is LCMS and they do a lot of outreach. They just had a community outreach christmas party, advertised and had flyers to put out, I don't think they had anyone from the community to show up except for maybe a couple that people in the church knew and invited that were friends or relatives. They had a community picnic for a housing project a couple of months ago too. So there are LCMS churchs out there that do try.

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

The Lord has and will continue to bless you that was a wonderfull answer i was a dead Luthern when i was a child VERY dead in the word i thought that if i was just there i was saved :sigh: Ahh, the hand of peace?

savedbyfaithinchrist, most Lutheran Synods are not for those issues you brought up. You are absolutely correct in stating that Luther would not be happy having his name associated with those stances.

Just so you know, the reason for the standdoffish responce you got, is most likely that the very issues you mentioned are often hotly debated here. Those on the "traditionalist" or "conservative" side of the issues can tend to get tired of being confused with the people on the "revisionist" or "liberal" side. If your questions and comments were indeed in good faith, I hope you can now understand and forgive the responces you recieved. Most of us here are in full agreement with you that Luther would not want to be associated with much of what is taught as "Lutheranism" in this day and age. But please do understand, that which you see as inconsistent with Christianity is quite possibly only what one group who (right or wrong) calls themselves "Lutheran" may teach. Stick around, and participate here, you may be surprized at what you learn about modern Lutherans.

[SPALATIN]

I think that sometimes what is needed is not so much canvassing, but to show the community that you are there for them. That you want to be part of their neighborhood. Try having the youth do a "free car wash" with a free will offering if they want to contribute great but they don't have to. Some churches will rent out a theater for a special movie (like Narnia) and invite their friends to come along for the show at the reduced rate. You have to treat the area like you are part of a mission. It may take several invites before people start to come around and actually visit your church.

I see the problem being that we get so busy with our own lives that we don't have the time it takes to invest the time and effort the church needs to let people know that the church is there for them. It is the Holy Spirit working in the community through the church and its members being available to help where needed on a constant basis.

It doesn't matter what synod your church is a member of in this world. There are some very good ELCA churches that are doing some very good things in their community. There are some very good LCMS and WELS churches doing some very good things in their communities. Many people think that missions is a foreign entity, but each church has a mission as well and that is to allow the Holy Spirit to lead them out into their local communities and share God's love by sometimes just being there.

How do you think someone will respond if you knock on their door in late October and offer to rake their leaves for them for nothing? Or let people in the immediate community know that you can have a group of people ready on Saturday morning to come over and paint your house or mow their lawn on a weekly basis free of charge.

This is the investment a church can make in it's mission to be there and share God's love for humanity.

The church can belong to any denomination, but if the Holy Spirit is truly leading the church how can it ignore the needs of it's community both local and global. The answer is: It can't.

[ctay]

One thing our church is doing is offering free tutoring for students in the local schools. If someone calls the church and needs help, the church will find some way to help them. We had a tree set up with names of needy children that had something listed that they needed or wanted. This is the way our pastor is, someone came to the church and the pastor was there. He had asked the pastor for help, he needed some money for a bus ticket to get to another state to see an aunt that was sick and in the hospital. Since it was only about a 2 hr drive one way and the pastor didn't have anything to do, he said he loaded the guys bike into his van and drove him up there himself.. :thumbsup: This church tries to do several things....

[KEPLER]

I think that sometimes what is needed is not so much canvassing, but to show the community that you are there for them. That you want to be part of their neighborhood. Try having the youth do a "free car wash" with a free will offering if they want to contribute great but they don't have to. Some churches will rent out a theater for a special movie (like Narnia) and invite their friends to come along for the show at the reduced rate. You have to treat the area like you are part of a mission. It may take several invites before people start to come around and actually visit your church.

I see the problem being that we get so busy with our own lives that we don't have the time it takes to invest the time and effort the church needs to let people know that the church is there for them. It is the Holy Spirit working in the community through the church and its members being available to help where needed on a constant basis.

It doesn't matter what synod your church is a member of in this world. There are some very good ELCA churches that are doing some very good things in their community. There are some very good LCMS and WELS churches doing some very good things in their communities. Many people think that missions is a foreign entity, but each church has a mission as well and that is to allow the Holy Spirit to lead them out into their local communities and share God's love by sometimes just being there.

How do you think someone will respond if you knock on their door in late October and offer to rake their leaves for them for nothing? Or let people in the immediate community know that you can have a group of people ready on Saturday morning to come over and paint your house or mow their lawn on a weekly basis free of charge.

This is the investment a church can make in it's mission to be there and share God's love for humanity.

The church can belong to any denomination, but if the Holy Spirit is truly leading the church how can it ignore the needs of it's community both local and global. The answer is: It can't.

"Show them we are Christians by our LOVE"??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

What are you, Scott, one o' them "Church Growth" advocates?

(Kepler hopes everyones "Ironic-o-meters" are turned on....)

[SPALATIN]

"Show them we are Christians by our LOVE"??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

What are you, Scott, one o' them "Church Growth" advocates?

(Kepler hopes everyones "Ironic-o-meters" are turned on....)

Yeah, but not like the world thinks of Church Growth but how God thinks of Church Growth. He is all for it especially if he is the one doing it.

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

I added an update about the post thank you :prayer:

[SPALATIN]

I guess people think my post is strange so i will word it a little diffrently. Do you think Luther would aprove of the church and why?

UPDATE
For real Brothers and Sisters i was asking a simple and small question i was not trying to throw wood on the fire.
I felt the need to ask becouse my Wifes grandparents are Luthern and dont belive in John 3:16 why i have no clue there very good people and the lord knows that he searches the heart i see no true fruit tho.
If i said that my Church leaders are still goin strong it would be a lie my Church leader is alive and well but last i saw him he had a nice trump like look if you know what i mean but hes an awsome Pastor still but kinda asleep in the light.
My question was not ment to split people into two diffrent groups and to those of you that may think it was just look how simple it was.
So to those of you i may have offended I BEG for your forgiveness your my Brothers and Sisters in Christ and i love you all.
Please if any thing dont argue about this post those of you who said i would be banned for asking such a simple question i will gladly leave if you ask me to im sorry.
I cant wait to be with Jesus and when im there crying more tears my my old human body could ever had i will be with you all
So i guess i just felt like asking this question becouse sometimes im asleep in the light forgive me Lord.
I have made a promise to the lord that on the eve of Christ birthday (the way i love to say Christimas in Sears) i will go to the homeless shelter and pose as a homeless man to see there fruitfullness so i can test if i should teach to the homeless there or if they are already in the word.
I was homeless when i was 16 so when i got Saved this was something the lord put on my heart to do after all there worth more than my soul lord im weak when there strong lord.
So i close asking for your prayers that my family will accept me not being home on the eve of Christ birthday and the most important that Christ will use me in his way not mine please Lord keep the venom my mouth spews out and you loving words in Lord

Dear Saved,

You are forgiven.

I am curious about why your wife's Grandparent's do not believe in John 3:16. Have you ever asked them about it? It is just a simple statement. Christ himself said it to Nicodemus. So how is it they could deny it? Please find out because no Lutheran I know would deny what is said there.

[filosofer]

I guess people think my post is strange so i will word it a little diffrently. Do you think Luther would aprove of the church and why?

UPDATE
For real Brothers and Sisters i was asking a simple and small question i was not trying to throw wood on the fire.
I felt the need to ask becouse my Wifes grandparents are Luthern and dont belive in John 3:16 why i have no clue there very good people and the lord knows that he searches the heart i see no true fruit tho.
If i said that my Church leaders are still goin strong it would be a lie my Church leader is alive and well but last i saw him he had a nice trump like look if you know what i mean but hes an awsome Pastor still but kinda asleep in the light.
My question was not ment to split people into two diffrent groups and to those of you that may think it was just look how simple it was.
So to those of you i may have offended I BEG for your forgiveness your my Brothers and Sisters in Christ and i love you all.
Please if any thing dont argue about this post those of you who said i would be banned for asking such a simple question i will gladly leave if you ask me to im sorry.
I cant wait to be with Jesus and when im there crying more tears my my old human body could ever had i will be with you all
So i guess i just felt like asking this question becouse sometimes im asleep in the light forgive me Lord.
I have made a promise to the lord that on the eve of Christ birthday (the way i love to say Christimas in Sears) i will go to the homeless shelter and pose as a homeless man to see there fruitfullness so i can test if i should teach to the homeless there or if they are already in the word.
I was homeless when i was 16 so when i got Saved this was something the lord put on my heart to do after all there worth more than my soul lord im weak when there strong lord.
So i close asking for your prayers that my family will accept me not being home on the eve of Christ birthday and the most important that Christ will use me in his way not mine please Lord keep the venom my mouth spews out and you loving words in Lord
Greetings in the Lord.

Thanks for the clarification and added information. I would agree with Scott, that a Lutheran indeed believes in John 3:16 (perhaps not how it is presented sometimes, but certainly the doctrine and truth of the passage).

Being separated from family at this time of year can be difficult. Since 1971 my wife and I have spent a total of 2 Christmases together with our families. The last time was 23 years ago when my older brother and I had an extended witnessing opportunity to my unbelieving father - on Christmas Eve, no less. He died 8 years later ; I was told by a friend of the family that he confessed Christ to her, but seemed unable to tell us. Thus we hope and pray that even at the death bed there might be salvation.

May God bless your efforts, and we pray for your family.

[Jim47]

Hi Ed :wave:



Thanks for the update. I've just returnef from the hospital, had my elbow fixed this am so I'm typing with one digit.

I would like to offer you some resources from WELS web site. Doctrine, confessions etc. If you click on the site map, you can find your way around pretty good. They even have a question and answer forum with a pretty good range of questions and answers, and I think you can also ask questions yourself.

Doctrine in is in the first catagory , be sure to read "This we believe" and the creeds

http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?sitemap

Q&A forum> http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1517&cuQA_qaID=1

Ask if you need help in locating certain things.

I wish you all a very Merry and Blessed Christmas


I don't know if this link will work or not.

http://www.hallmark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product|10001|10051|124313|-2;-102001;11441;-102271;68118||P1R8SO|products

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

ya um ok lol thats not the start of the movementWhat was nailed to the door in Wittenberg is not what Luther and the other organizers of the Evangelical movement made into the confessions of the Evangelical Church. A far more influential document for what Luther believed in would be the Heidelberg Disputation