Holy Communion/ Eucharist

[svdbygrace]

Hello! :wave:

I have a few questions about Holy Communion in the UMC.

Does the UMC believe in the "Real Presence" of Christ? Spiritual or Physical?

Does the UMC in general still use the prayer of humble access?

How often is Holy Communion celebrated?

Christ's Peace and Love :prayer:
-Svdbygrace

[DesertedRose]

I'll take the one about frequency....

It depends on the congregation. Some do it once a month; some do it quarterly. John Wesley's ideal was for folks to have access to communion as often as they needed it....this idea has mostly been lost in the modern communities, unfortunately.

Our church has it the first Sunday of the month.

[alaurie]

Here's a link to a similar WP thread from a few months ago :)

Lots of good info here.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2261405-communion-question.html

[herev]

Hello! :wave:
HI

I have a few questions about Holy Communion in the UMC. sure, no problem

Does the UMC believe in the "Real Presence" of Christ? Spiritual or Physical? REal Presence, Yes, beyond that, some may say we only believe in the spiritual real presence, but the truth is, it is undefined. WE believe that Christ is present with us at the altar, in the elements, in the recipients.

Does the UMC in general still use the prayer of humble access? not sure what that is specifically, could you share to make sure we're comparing apples to apples?

How often is Holy Communion celebrated?

depends on the church
Christ's Peace and Love :prayer:
-Svdbygrace
May God bless you richly!

[svdbygrace]

HI

sure, no problem

Thanks. :)

REal Presence, Yes, beyond that, some may say we only believe in the spiritual real presence, but the truth is, it is undefined. WE believe that Christ is present with us at the altar, in the elements, in the recipients.

:clap: :amen:

not sure what that is specifically, could you share to make sure we're comparing apples to apples?

Sure, it's at the bottom of the post.

depends on the church


May God bless you richly!

And you also.



The Prayer of Humble Access
We do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so as much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his body, and our souls washed through his most precious blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. - Page 82 Book of Common Prayer (1929) - appears also in earlier versions of the BCP, and is mentioned in "John Wesley's Scriptural Christianity" as part of his 1784 Eucharistic Liturgy.

[svdbygrace]

I'll take the one about frequency....

It depends on the congregation. Some do it once a month; some do it quarterly. John Wesley's ideal was for folks to have access to communion as often as they needed it....this idea has mostly been lost in the modern communities, unfortunately.

Our church has it the first Sunday of the month.

Thanks. :)

[svdbygrace]

Here's a link to a similar WP thread from a few months ago :)

Lots of good info here.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2261405-communion-question.html

Thanks. :)

[alaurie]

The Prayer of Humble Access
We do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so as much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his body, and our souls washed through his most precious blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. - Page 82 Book of Common Prayer (1929) - appears also in earlier versions of the BCP, and is mentioned in "John Wesley's Scriptural Christianity" as part of his 1784 Eucharistic Liturgy.

We don't use this, but it's beautiful!

[herev]

The Prayer of Humble Access
We do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so as much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his body, and our souls washed through his most precious blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. - Page 82 Book of Common Prayer (1929) - appears also in earlier versions of the BCP, and is mentioned in "John Wesley's Scriptural Christianity" as part of his 1784 Eucharistic Liturgy.
not exactly, we don't have that. We have a prayer of confession and the officiant says, "Pour out your spirit on these gifts of bread and wine, let them be for us the body and blood of Christ, that we might be for the world, the body of Christ, redeemed by his blood."
So, similar, yes?

[AquilaGT]

Most UMCs celebrate Holy Communion the 1st Sunday of each month, although there is a movement to have it available weekly. Some UMCs have starting having a Holy Communion service each week, sometimes between other services or Sunday School.

I think large portions of our Eucharistic liturgy is derived from the BCP. I often attend a Communion service during the workweek day at an Episcopal church near my work, and there are many similarities.

For everything and more you would want to know (and more) about the UMC and Holy Communion, go to gbod . org / legislation / hcfinal2 . pdf for a 40 page document explaining UMC Eucharistic beliefs and practices.

[Ric]

Hello! :wave:

1. I have a few questions about Holy Communion in the UMC.

2. Does the UMC believe in the "Real Presence" of Christ? Spiritual or Physical?

3. Does the UMC in general still use the prayer of humble access?

4. How often is Holy Communion celebrated?

Christ's Peace and Love :prayer:
-Svdbygrace

1. Okay.

2. Yes, Jesus is present with us at His Table (spiritually). He is not physically there in/as the bread and wine like some denominations falsely teach.

3. I have no idea what you are asking about "the prayer of humble access?"

4. In most UMCes, the Lord's Supper is celebrated once a month, usually the first Sunday of the month.

[svdbygrace]

not exactly, we don't have that. We have a prayer of confession and the officiant says, "Pour out your spirit on these gifts of bread and wine, let them be for us the body and blood of Christ, that we might be for the world, the body of Christ, redeemed by his blood."
So, similar, yes?

Indeed. :)

[Ric]

The Prayer of Humble Access
We do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so as much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his body, and our souls washed through his most precious blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. - Page 82 Book of Common Prayer (1929) - appears also in earlier versions of the BCP, and is mentioned in "John Wesley's Scriptural Christianity" as part of his 1784 Eucharistic Liturgy.

That's interesting. :)

[Artos]

The Prayer of Humble Access
We do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so as much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his body, and our souls washed through his most precious blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. - Page 82 Book of Common Prayer (1929) - appears also in earlier versions of the BCP, and is mentioned in "John Wesley's Scriptural Christianity" as part of his 1784 Eucharistic Liturgy.

This was in the old Methodist Hymnal before the UMC Hymnal came out. We used to have this prayer in the 1970s and early 80s.

Since you are on the topic, do you want some suggestions re readings on the Holy Communion (eg theology/practice/spirituality) in the Methodist/Wesleyan tradition?

[contriteheart]

Most UMCs celebrate Holy Communion the 1st Sunday of each month, although there is a movement to have it available weekly. Some UMCs have starting having a Holy Communion service each week, sometimes between other services or Sunday School.

I absolutely long to have Holy Communion weekly. Heck, I'd probably go if we had it daily. I have just recently returned to the UMC after 20 or so years as a non-denom, and I wish with all my heart that we had communion more than once a month.

As a new member, do you think telling my pastor how I feel about this would be out of line?

Blessed Advent!

With love in Christ,
Grace

[alaurie]

I absolutely long to have Holy Communion weekly. Heck, I'd probably go if we had it daily. I have just recently returned to the UMC after 20 or so years as a non-denom, and I wish with all my heart that we had communion more than once a month.

As a new member, do you think telling my pastor how I feel about this would be out of line?

Blessed Advent!

With love in Christ,
Grace

I've been wishing for the same thing, Grace. The first Methodist church I ever attended had Communion every Sunday night. It was such a wonderful way to start the week.

I've been hoping for an opportunity to ask about weekly Communion at my church. Maybe we can pray for each other's efforts?

[AquilaGT]

contriteHeart - I don't think you would be out of line at all to let your pastor know that Holy Communion is very meaningful to you and the you would like it to be available as often as possible. I have discussed with this with my pastor. Our church is not huge, so it is not feasible now, but my pastor knows I sometimes attend a mid day Communion service at the Episcopal church near my office on the weeks we do not have Communion.

Remember that John Wesley never ceased to be a priest in the Anglican Church of England, and he took weekly or more frequently Holy Communion, and thought that it was a means of grace all believers should partake of frequently.

Methodists in North America were part of the Anglican or Episcopal church until the American Revolution, and Methodists took Communion weekly. When Methodism became a separate church and grew very fast in the less settled areas of the USA, there were not enough ordained clergy to bless the elements and celebrate Communion every week in the far flung pioneer areas. So Methodists had to celebrate Communion only when an ordained pastor came to the closest town, sometimes only once a quarter or once a month. (The regular weekly services were lead by lay preachers who could not preside at Holy Communion.) And we have tended to follow that practice until now, but hopefully that will change as we recover more of our roots and John Wesley's original intentions.

[AquilaGT]

The first Methodist church I ever attended had Communion every Sunday night. It was such a wonderful way to start the week.

I've been hoping for an opportunity to ask about weekly Communion at my church. Maybe we can pray for each other's efforts?

What a great way to fit weekly Communion into the schedule! I am going to have to share that with my pastor.

And yes, some prayer for those of us hungry for the body and blood of our Savior would be good.

Too bad we can't have one of the ordained pastors on this forum celebrate Holy Communion for us over the internet!:)

[contriteheart]

Maybe we can pray for each other's efforts?

Count me in. I'll be praying for you and AquilaGT. :prayer:

Let me know if you guys make any headway.

Blessed Advent!

With love in Christ,
Grace

[contriteheart]

my pastor knows I sometimes attend a mid day Communion service at the Episcopal church near my office on the weeks we do not have Communion.

I've also thought of going to a later service at an Episcopal Church for Holy Communion on the weeks we don't have it (for example, I would go to our UMC for an early service, and then go over to the Episcopal Church afterwards). If our church decides not to have Holy Communion weekly, I may still consider doing it.

Blessed Advent!

With love in Christ,
Grace

[contriteheart]

I've also thought of going to a later service at an Episcopal Church for Holy Communion on the weeks we don't have it (for example, I would go to our UMC for an early service, and then go over to the Episcopal Church afterwards). If our church decides not to have Holy Communion weekly, I may still consider doing it.

If I talk to my pastor and the rector of the Episcopal Church before doing this, does anyone see anything wrong with it? I would dearly love to take weekly Holy Communion at my own church - if only it were available. :sigh:

Thanks for your input.

Blessed Advent!

With love in Christ,
Grace

[alaurie]

I'm pretty sure the Episcopal Church's Communion is open to all believers. I've read not to long ago of another CF member (non Episcopalian) who does this ...think it's a great idea.

edited to say :doh: ...there's AquilaGT a few posts above who does this.

If I talk to my pastor and the rector of the Episcopal Church before doing this, does anyone see anything wrong with it? I would dearly love to take weekly Holy Communion at my own church - if only it were available. :sigh:

Thanks for your input.

Blessed Advent!

With love in Christ,
Grace

[svdbygrace]

This was in the old Methodist Hymnal before the UMC Hymnal came out. We used to have this prayer in the 1970s and early 80s.

Since you are on the topic, do you want some suggestions re readings on the Holy Communion (eg theology/practice/spirituality) in the Methodist/Wesleyan tradition?

I would love some suggestions.

The Church I am attending will hold it's (Candlelight) Communion Service on Christmas Eve, the only day this week I wouldn't be able to attend. So I'll attend the service on Christmas morning without HC. :sigh:

[svdbygrace]

If I talk to my pastor and the rector of the Episcopal Church before doing this, does anyone see anything wrong with it? I would dearly love to take weekly Holy Communion at my own church - if only it were available. :sigh:

Thanks for your input.

Blessed Advent!

With love in Christ,
Grace


You are more than welcome to attend and recieve the Sacrament anytime. It's the Lord's Table, not ours.

[Artos]

I would love some suggestions.

A few good books:with websites to order them from.....

1 HISTORY
"The Sacrament of the Lord”s Supper in Early Methodism".London : Dacre Press. (1951) by John C Bowmer
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007HO3VI/qid=1135012536/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-6025417-5542356?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

2 "THEOLOGY- a bit heavy going
John Wesley on the Sacraments: A Theological Study". Grand Rapids: Francis Asbury Press(1986) by Ole E Borgen
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310751918/qid=1135012481/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-6025417-5542356?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

3 PRIMARY SOURCE- THE HYMNS
"The Eucharistic Hymns of John and Charles Wesley"( American Edition 1990 )1948 by Earnest J Rattenbury. Ed. Timothy J Couch. Ohio: Order of St Luke Publications.
http://www.saint-luke.org/littheol.html#rattenbury

4. OVERVIEW OF HISTORY, THEOLOGY and EVALUATION IN SPIRITUALITY- good if you just need one book to read rather than several.
"Wesleyan Eucharistic Spirituality" Australia.Australian Theological Foundation Press (2005) by Lorna Khoo
http://www.atfpress.com/books/atfDissertation/WesleyanEucharistic.htm

[svdbygrace]

Thanks.

[Celticflower]

I find the talk of weekly communion to be interesting--mainly because I am currently on the other side of it. I attend a non-denom that has communion every week. Unfortunately it seems to have little of the beauty or mystery of the monthly communion services I grew up with. In the UMC communion is like a service within the service. In this non-denom it is a bit of a blip before taking up the offering. None of the prayers or responses or the Great Thanksgiving (does the UMC still do that?). No recounting of the words of Christ in any way shape or form. No time of confession.

So what is a rebel Methodist to do? For a while I actually took a copy of the Methodist hymnal with me so I could go thru the service printed there. Now I practically have it memorized and go thru it silently during the time of communion. Of course I am one of the last to finish (once they started collecting the offering before I was done:eek: ), but since it is served in the pews it is not a big deal most Sundays. But I find not doing it this way has almost no meaning for me. I think that can be a real danger-esp when changing from occasional to weekly communion. It becomes commonplace and loses some of its deeper meaning and power. ya know what I mean??:confused:

[AquilaGT]

Thanks for that perspective, celticflower. I would never want Holy Communion to become routine, and without the liturgy that emphasizes the importance of it.

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Remember that John Wesley never ceased to be a priest in the Anglican Church of England...

Forgive me for hijacking this thread for a moment, but why did the Wesley brother's start a new Church if John Wesley was still content to be a priest in the Anglican Church?

I ask out of ignorance, not to criticize.

In XC,

Maureen

[Artos]

Forgive me for hijacking this thread for a moment, but why did the Wesley brother's start a new Church if John Wesley was still content to be a priest in the Anglican Church?

I ask out of ignorance, not to criticize.

In XC,

Maureen

John Wesley never wanted to start a new church. His revival movement grew too big to fit into the Anglican system- more so when he felt he had to ordain his own clergy....for America and for some places in the British Isles. This was because:
a. IN AMERICA's case- it was just after war of Independence. Church of England clergy were not exactly very welcomed in the States...as you can guess...Neither were bishops keen about sending their clergy there. Methodist laypersons (preachers called circuit riders) were already doing a lot of evangelism among the settlers. Who was going to baptise them? (OK- in case of emergencies, the traditional position was that even a lay person can baptise....but one cannot leave huge numbers of people unbaptised....since not every situation is 'emergency').

b.In America and England
In America, there was the lack of clergy to celebrate Communion. In England, many Anglican priests were barring Wesley's followers from the Communion Table. Part of the reason was that they were seen to be 'enthusiasts' and thousands of Methodists flocked to Anglican Communions which were usually not well attended. (What most people dont know is that the Wesleyan revival was a Eucharistic revival as well. People found the Lord at the Table so they flocked to Communion by the thousands where usually, few wanted to receive Communion)....


Who is going to give them (the settlers in America and the Methodists in England) Holy Communion? Wesley believed very strongly that ONLY AN ORDAINED PERSON CAN celebrate Communion. He would not allow unordained lay preachers to do that. So the only way was to ordain his own preachers- claiming that there was precedent in the early Church for presbyters like himself to ordain. This was true because the Antioch and Alexandrian diocese had different govermental styles in the early church. One insisted that bishops are the only ones who can ordain. The other allowed presbyters to ordain.


Think now- if you have a revival movement with their own hymns (Charles Wesley wrote hymns), their own publications (John published a lot of stuff for his people), their own lay leaders AND their own clergy.....how can they fit back into the Mother Church comfortably? In America, there was no Anglican church for a long time to come....The Anglicans (who became known as Episcopalians) came into the scene long after the Methodist circuit riders laid the foundation of the faith in the States. So the Methodists sort of 'plopped out' of the Anglican Church.

Hope this helps.

[alaurie]

More info similar to Arto's above from an Anglican site

http://www.allsaintsanglican.org/worthies.php?id=WesleyJ

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Thanks for the info! Much appreciated!

[Artos]

Some have expressed the concern that Holy Communion would become 'routine' (thus eroding the meaning, reverence and significance of the sacrament for us) if we have it too often. Might be good to hear what John Wesley said about that in his sermon: THE DUTY OF CONSTANT COMMUNION :



“ Wesley went to the root of the problem. Is it human boredom with old custom or fascination with new ones which provides the sacrament with its meaning, reverence and significance? True reverence is nurtured by obedience to His command to partake of the sacrament. Love, fear and faith in God would be deepened and the significance of the sacrament would then be made clearer. Wesley also retorted that God did not command us to observe the sacrament “unless it abates your reverence!” John Wesley’s Scriptural argument against those who would refrain from regular communion because of “awe”, was convincing. It was more so when he identified the very human motivation behind the excuse, namely the fear of boredom with over-familiarity with the sacrament and the natural attraction to the novel and the new”.

(taken from the 4th book I quoted earlier: “WESLEYAN EUCHARISTIC SPIRITUALITY)

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Forgive me if my comments are out of place, but what keeps me from getting "bored" with the weekly partaking of communion in the Orthodox Church is the constant reminder of how much I NEED the Eucharist every week. As long as I keep that in check, it is difficult to not stand in awe and wonder of the gifts.

[Celticflower]

I think the manner in which weekly communion is observed has alot to do with whether it becomes mundane or retains its meaning for the celebrants. If the full liturgy is used I think it would become less routine than the style I am currently "used" to. (see my previous post).

[ctay]

I've grown up in the Lutheran church, they either have communion every other sunday or every sunday depends on the church. Some churchs have 2 services they usually have communion in the first service and not the second and be the other way around the next sunday. The lutheran church I go to now is a small church with only one service but they have communion every sunday and I love it.

[Ric]

Forgive me if my comments are out of place, but what keeps me from getting "bored" with the weekly partaking of communion in the Orthodox Church is the constant reminder of how much I NEED the Eucharist every week. As long as I keep that in check, it is difficult to not stand in awe and wonder of the gifts.

I'm not trying to argue here, but I must make an observation due to all of the time I have spent in the Roman Catholic church. This is a sad thing if it happens in any denomination, but when I was in the Roman Catholic church I would witness every single Sunday (or any mass for that fact) many people partaking in the Lord's Supper then walk right out the back door before the mass was dismissed.

If people were to approach the Lord's Supper in the way you do, I doubt we would need to worry about it becoming routine. Plus in Scripture we are told to celebrate the Lord's Supper often, and that does not mean every time we meet. :)

[Diane_Windsor]

Hello!

Howdy :wave: I love your username. We are saved BY God's grace (Ephesians 2:8-9)! :amen:

Does the UMC believe in the "Real Presence" of Christ? Spiritual or Physical?

Methodism: presence as "mystery" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Presence#Methodism_-_presence_as_.22mystery.22)-Wikipedia article on the Real Presence, which does provide a link to This Holy Mystery (http://www.gbod.org/worship/thisholymystery/default.html) an official UMC document which describes our understanding of the Lord's Supper.

Does the UMC in general still use the prayer of humble access?

:confused: I don't even know what the prayer of humble access is. :sorry:

How often is Holy Communion celebrated?

In my parish it is celebrated one a month in the main services, but is available on a bi-weekly basis in the Chapel for those who wish to partake more often.

DIANE
:wave:

[Peaceful Dove]

I absolutely long to have Holy Communion weekly. Heck, I'd probably go if we had it daily. I have just recently returned to the UMC after 20 or so years as a non-denom, and I wish with all my heart that we had communion more than once a month.

As a new member, do you think telling my pastor how I feel about this would be out of line?

Blessed Advent!

With love in Christ,
Grace

Greetings
I can relate to you.
I received Holy Communion every morning for about 10 years. I didn't work until my youngest was out of High School so could go to Church every morning. Then I went back to work and could not go to Church. It was like losing a big part of my life. I missed Holy Communion so much. I feel blessed to receive Holy Eucharist once a week.

I am glad to read your lovely post here.

[alaurie]

I received Holy Communion every morning for about 10 years.

I ...um, envy you guys this;) How wonderful to have the opportunity for Communion every day!

[1lostsheep]

I think it's important to remember for those who aren't Methodist that the frequency is really left up to each individual congregation. For instance in my town my church has it once a month, another has in 2x a month, and the church downtown has it every Sunday and also on Wen services as well. So if you feel more than once a week in needed you can find a Methodist church that accomodates that.

[herev]

John Wesley never wanted to start a new church. His revival movement grew too big to fit into the Anglican system- more so when he felt he had to ordain his own clergy....for America and for some places in the British Isles. This was because:
a. IN AMERICA's case- it was just after war of Independence. Church of England clergy were not exactly very welcomed in the States...as you can guess...Neither were bishops keen about sending their clergy there. Methodist laypersons (preachers called circuit riders) were already doing a lot of evangelism among the settlers. Who was going to baptise them? (OK- in case of emergencies, the traditional position was that even a lay person can baptise....but one cannot leave huge numbers of people unbaptised....since not every situation is 'emergency').

b.In America and England
In America, there was the lack of clergy to celebrate Communion. In England, many Anglican priests were barring Wesley's followers from the Communion Table. Part of the reason was that they were seen to be 'enthusiasts' and thousands of Methodists flocked to Anglican Communions which were usually not well attended. (What most people dont know is that the Wesleyan revival was a Eucharistic revival as well. People found the Lord at the Table so they flocked to Communion by the thousands where usually, few wanted to receive Communion)....


Who is going to give them (the settlers in America and the Methodists in England) Holy Communion? Wesley believed very strongly that ONLY AN ORDAINED PERSON CAN celebrate Communion. He would not allow unordained lay preachers to do that. So the only way was to ordain his own preachers- claiming that there was precedent in the early Church for presbyters like himself to ordain. This was true because the Antioch and Alexandrian diocese had different govermental styles in the early church. One insisted that bishops are the only ones who can ordain. The other allowed presbyters to ordain.


Think now- if you have a revival movement with their own hymns (Charles Wesley wrote hymns), their own publications (John published a lot of stuff for his people), their own lay leaders AND their own clergy.....how can they fit back into the Mother Church comfortably? In America, there was no Anglican church for a long time to come....The Anglicans (who became known as Episcopalians) came into the scene long after the Methodist circuit riders laid the foundation of the faith in the States. So the Methodists sort of 'plopped out' of the Anglican Church.

Hope this helps.
a very accurate and well-laid-out post--good info

[alaurie]

I agree, herev. :) I love that post ...learned much from it.

Artos, would you let a mod sticky it? Maybe title a thread "Historical circumstances that led to the founding of Methodism"? ...or something like that. :)

[Artos]

I agree, herev. :) I love that post ...learned much from it.

Artos, would you let a mod sticky it? Maybe title a thread "Historical circumstances that led to the founding of Methodism"? ...or something like that. :)

Go ahead. Thanks for encouragement. Glad to be of help.

[ClementofRome]

Well, I have went and done it!

This past Sunday our Adult SS class began an indepth study of Holy Communion using the This Holy Mystery material suppied byu the UMC and led by yours truly. All of this is with a view toward weekly communion starting the Sunday after Easter (better: Resurrection Sunday). We are a small rural UMC and it will be interesting to see how the elderly folk respond to weekly Eucharist.

I AM LOOKING SO FORWARD TO IT!

[alaurie]

:clap: :clap: :clap: Three cheers for you! I'm so happy for you and your congregation. God bless your efforts :hug:



Well, I have went and done it!

This past Sunday our Adult SS class began an indepth study of Holy Communion using the This Holy Mystery material suppied byu the UMC and led by yours truly. All of this is with a view toward weekly communion starting the Sunday after Easter (better: Resurrection Sunday). We are a small rural UMC and it will be interesting to see how the elderly folk respond to weekly Eucharist.

I AM LOOKING SO FORWARD TO IT!

[herev]

Well, I have went and done it!

This past Sunday our Adult SS class began an indepth study of Holy Communion using the This Holy Mystery material suppied byu the UMC and led by yours truly. All of this is with a view toward weekly communion starting the Sunday after Easter (better: Resurrection Sunday). We are a small rural UMC and it will be interesting to see how the elderly folk respond to weekly Eucharist.

I AM LOOKING SO FORWARD TO IT!
you're a good man, Charlie Brown

[contriteheart]

Well, I have went and done it!

This past Sunday our Adult SS class began an indepth study of Holy Communion using the This Holy Mystery material suppied byu the UMC and led by yours truly. All of this is with a view toward weekly communion starting the Sunday after Easter (better: Resurrection Sunday). We are a small rural UMC and it will be interesting to see how the elderly folk respond to weekly Eucharist.

I AM LOOKING SO FORWARD TO IT!

Thanks for sharing this. It is an answer to prayer for me. (Now if my church, AquilaGT's church, alauries's church, and everyone else's church who longs for weekly eucharist would just do that!)

Your sister in Christ,
Grace

[ClementofRome]

Thanks for sharing this. It is an answer to prayer for me. (Now if my church, AquilaGT's church, alauries's church, and everyone else's church who longs for weekly eucharist would just do that!)

Your sister in Christ,
Grace

If anyone wants access to my handouts and materials over the next 3 months you are welcome to them. It will be a combination of my own work and the UMC publication (printed and distributed with permission). My outline is as follows (I would like a critique if you are willing to comment):

THIS HOLY MYSTERY: Holy Communion in the UMC

Sardis UMC Adult Sunday School Schedule for Spring 2006 (9:45-10:45AM)

Sunday, January 8 – Introduction, Schedule, The Game Plan, Comments

Sunday, January 15 – The Exodus as Background for Passover Celebration

Sunday, January 22 – The Institution of Passover as Holy Feast

Sunday, January 29 – The Jewish Tradition of Passover

Sunday, February 5 – The Institution of The Lord’s Supper/Holy Communion/Eucharist

Sunday, February 12 – No Sunday School Today….Clem will be out of town

Sunday, February 19 – Christian History of the Sacrament

Sunday, February 26 – Methodist History of the Sacrament

Sunday, March 5 – The Theology of the Sacrament: The Means of Grace

Sunday, March 12 – Toward a Richer Sacramental Life

Sunday, March 19 – Christ Present Calls You

Sunday, March 26 – The Issue of Unworthiness and the Problem of Fencing the Table

Sunday, April 2 (Daylight Savings Time Change) – Word and Table in Community

Sunday, April 9 – The Ritual and the Servants

*Thursday, April 13 @ 6PM– Christian Passover Seder/Maundy (Holy) Thursday with foot washing and partaking of the Lord’s Supper

*Sunday, April 16 (Resurrection Sunday!) – The Setting of the Table and the Elements

*Sunday, April 23 – Extending the Table and Evangelism

*Sunday, April 30 – Discipleship and Unity



*We will be celebrating Holy Communion as the pinnacle of the worship service weekly from this point forward.

[contriteheart]

If anyone wants access to my handouts and materials over the next 3 months you are welcome to them. It will be a combination of my own work and the UMC publication (printed and distributed with permission). My outline is as follows

That outline looks fantastic, ClementofRome! I wish I could be in your class. :)

I would love to have access to your notes, since you are offering.

Your sister in Christ,
Grace

[herev]

the outline looks fantastic. Your church is blessed to have someone of your caliber. I think sherev and I would like those notes, too! You know how to reach me (and her)
Tommy

[ClementofRome]

Thanks Contrite and herev. I will be developing the notes week by week, so I will shoot you both what I have used each Sunday afternoon (help me remember!!!).

:)
Blessings,
Clem

[Diane_Windsor]

That outline looks fantastic, ClementofRome! I wish I could be in your class. :)

I would love to have access to your notes, since you are offering.

Your sister in Christ,
Grace

Ditto :)

[Peaceful Dove]

John Wesley never wanted to start a new church. His revival movement grew too big to fit into the Anglican system- more so when he felt he had to ordain his own clergy....for America and for some places in the British Isles. This was because:
a. IN AMERICA's case- it was just after war of Independence. Church of England clergy were not exactly very welcomed in the States...as you can guess...Neither were bishops keen about sending their clergy there. Methodist laypersons (preachers called circuit riders) were already doing a lot of evangelism among the settlers. Who was going to baptise them? (OK- in case of emergencies, the traditional position was that even a lay person can baptise....but one cannot leave huge numbers of people unbaptised....since not every situation is 'emergency').

b.In America and England
In America, there was the lack of clergy to celebrate Communion. In England, many Anglican priests were barring Wesley's followers from the Communion Table. Part of the reason was that they were seen to be 'enthusiasts' and thousands of Methodists flocked to Anglican Communions which were usually not well attended. (What most people dont know is that the Wesleyan revival was a Eucharistic revival as well. People found the Lord at the Table so they flocked to Communion by the thousands where usually, few wanted to receive Communion)....


Who is going to give them (the settlers in America and the Methodists in England) Holy Communion? Wesley believed very strongly that ONLY AN ORDAINED PERSON CAN celebrate Communion. He would not allow unordained lay preachers to do that. So the only way was to ordain his own preachers- claiming that there was precedent in the early Church for presbyters like himself to ordain. This was true because the Antioch and Alexandrian diocese had different govermental styles in the early church. One insisted that bishops are the only ones who can ordain. The other allowed presbyters to ordain.


Think now- if you have a revival movement with their own hymns (Charles Wesley wrote hymns), their own publications (John published a lot of stuff for his people), their own lay leaders AND their own clergy.....how can they fit back into the Mother Church comfortably? In America, there was no Anglican church for a long time to come....The Anglicans (who became known as Episcopalians) came into the scene long after the Methodist circuit riders laid the foundation of the faith in the States. So the Methodists sort of 'plopped out' of the Anglican Church.

Hope this helps.

I just read this post and it was so interesting. I didn't know this about your church history.

When I think about the shortage of Catholic Priests in America now, I can imagine what this would have been like in other periods of history. If we were cut off from Bishops to ordain and all.

What a wonderful story.

Would you mind if I cut and pasted it in my Word program for future study?

[Artos]

Go ahead.
God bless!
You might be interested in reading JOHN WESLEY AND THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND and WESLEYAN EUCHARISTIC SPIRITUALITY.

Available at
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0716201275/104-4735909-2654353?v=glance&n=283155

http://www.atfpress.com/books/atfDissertation/WesleyanEucharistic.htm