Do Gold/Silver/Jeweled Crosses Glorify Christ or Ourselves?

[k]

In thinking about the Cross, I cannot help but to think it was the ancient version of the electric chair. It was a tool of State sanctioned murder, nothing more, nothing less. Inextricably connected to this thought is the suffering Christ must have endured upon that pre-destined day.

I am leaning towards believing that expensive crosses mock the execution of Christ for mainly three reasons.

1. It's like wearing a scaled down version of an electric chair.

2. Those particular crosses are made of materials that only the elite
of the world can have access to.

3. Christ cared more about us taking care of each other verses what
jewels we displayed.

I am aware that Jesus said we must take up our crosses daily, but after much prayer and careful specualtion, the conclusion is that he was referring to the daily sacrifices we must make in order to obey Christ.

In addition, what would Jesus prefer, that we take the money we have spent on those crosses to feed people, or to wear a nice looking jewel around our necks?

This is in no way an attack on anyone who may wear said crosses. It is merely a cursory exploration into the modernization of Western Christianity.

Thoughts? (and thanks!)

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

Umm i own a silver cross and a silver star of david and i am asked about my faith becouse of it all the time
Now if i used a fake silver cross and star of david i think the green would get me joked and not be a good witness to others i and about 99 percent of all christians think its ok besides im not of the elite my bling bling was about 20 bucks lol

[k]

Umm i own a silver cross and a silver star of david and i am asked about my faith becouse of it all the time
Now if i used a fake silver cross and star of david i think the green would get me joked and not be a good witness to others i and about 99 percent of all christians think its ok besides im not of the elite my bling bling was about 20 bucks lol

What is better: to be asked about our Faith through actions or jewelry?

I specifically said the elite of the world...meaning that while that $20 may not sound like much to us, it could feed a whole family for about two weeks in some parts of the world.

I was really hoping people would not take offense to the OP...this is not a personal attack on ANYONE. It is talking about the macroscopic material reflection of Western Christianity.

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

i work for a ministry and the homeless we feed never ask us for our silver if you think its silly that we have silver when people in africa need food
last i checked most silver and gold mines are in africa and 2nd why do we care about it would you sell your silver or gold to feed the poor ????? if so sell your computer why you are at it people are dieing and are not saved and people always try to talk about world items who cares if the lord tells me to sell my silver then i will but if another xian sees my neckless and would like to fellowship then cool or is a none xian wants to learn about the lord the so be it but when will this stop
SELL YOUR SHOES GLASSES WATER FOOD UNDERPANTS JEANS SHIRT JACKET CAR HOME COMPUTER ANIMALS SOCKS GAMES BIBLES SILVER GOLD LIVER DVD VHS DVD PLAYERS VHS PLAYERS EVERYTHING :thumbsup: THEN YOU WILL FEED THE HOMELESS O AND THEN YOU CAN MAKE POST IN THE DIRT ABOUT THINGS SILLY

[undecided]

um i don't know if i am "with it" but i am thinking i am getting what your meaning - and i think it's a fine line and a bit of both - i don't think the cross really "mocks" jesus - because thats where he died (for us) But i also think there are the things we can remember he did BEFORE he died as well....
and also our church doesn't have any crosses in it, and i think that is really nice. so yer, it depends on how you look at it maybe.
but i do think it's a valid point!

[Letalis]

John 12:3-8 Mary therefore took a pound of expensive ointment made from pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair. The house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was about to betray him), said, "Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?" He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it. Jesus said, "Leave her alone, so that she may keep it for the day of my burial. The poor you always have with you, but you do not always have me."

I think these verses are important to look upon. Beautiful crosses should be about glorifying God and the beautiful thing He did for us. I think for a lot of people that is what it is.

[AmeriLovesJesus]

I agree with Letalis & Savedbyfaithinchrist.

Beautiful crosses should be about glorifying God and the beautiful thing He did for us.:):)

[CrazyforYeshua]

I like the star of David with the cross inside, that's what I wear. What I DO disagree with, is the huge 10 inch long crosses people wear, full of gold and diamonds, to show their wealth. I know someone like that, and where his heart is, only God knows.
I also ran into it when I worked at BP, and the drugrunners used to stop on their way from Detroit to NY, and they also had those huge crosses. THAT makes me mad, people who don't even know the Lord, breaking the law, with huge crosses-why????????????

[heyder]

The cross is an ugly and terrible thing. If we go soft or make it look beautiful I think we take away from what Christ did for us. His full payment for our sins needs to be recognized by new christians as the grueling deed it was. I don't like to look at the bloody christ crosses but they are the ones that tell of the horrible and wonderful truth.

[ub4me]

To me it is just a personal representation of my faith...wether it is gold silver wood or plastic....if God has blessed you...with the ability to buy a more expensive cross the I say good for you. The cross in itself is nothing, but it represents what my savior did for me...there is nothing ugly about it...it was His will...to take our pain, our sins and to die our death...that was love in it's truest form...beautiful!!!
We could say God would rather us feed others before we feed ourselves...
As we gulp down our supersized value meal
Or ride a bike, instead of having a car...you could feed alot of people for what you pay in gas now days.
God has poured out His blessings upon His children, and of course we should give and help those less fortunate...give and it shall be given unto you
We could talk ourselves right into poverty
But whatever you choose to believe...let it be done in faith...

[k]

i work for a ministry and the homeless we feed never ask us for our silver if you think its silly that we have silver when people in africa need food
last i checked most silver and gold mines are in africa and 2nd why do we care about it would you sell your silver or gold to feed the poor ????? if so sell your computer why you are at it people are dieing and are not saved and people always try to talk about world items who cares if the lord tells me to sell my silver then i will but if another xian sees my neckless and would like to fellowship then cool or is a none xian wants to learn about the lord the so be it but when will this stop
SELL YOUR SHOES GLASSES WATER FOOD UNDERPANTS JEANS SHIRT JACKET CAR HOME COMPUTER ANIMALS SOCKS GAMES BIBLES SILVER GOLD LIVER DVD VHS DVD PLAYERS VHS PLAYERS EVERYTHING :thumbsup: THEN YOU WILL FEED THE HOMELESS O AND THEN YOU CAN MAKE POST IN THE DIRT ABOUT THINGS SILLY

Again, the OP was not a personal attack on ANYONE. I will not respond to posts that personalize the conversation.

[k]

um i don't know if i am "with it" but i am thinking i am getting what your meaning - and i think it's a fine line and a bit of both - i don't think the cross really "mocks" jesus - because thats where he died (for us) But i also think there are the things we can remember he did BEFORE he died as well....
and also our church doesn't have any crosses in it, and i think that is really nice. so yer, it depends on how you look at it maybe.
but i do think it's a valid point!

I agree it can be a fine line, but the jeweled crosses were specifically mentioned because Jesus laid out some clear priorities. It seems to me those types of crosses mock his words. I.e. How powerful of a witness would it be to the world if 98% of Christians sold their cross jewelry and dedicated the money to getting homeless children off the streets? Would Jesus prefer we bear witness by nice looking crosses around our necks or by sacrificing those pieces of jewelry to put homeless children into homes?

I have been to a couple of churches that didn't have crosses, and I liked that too. :)

[k]

John 12:3-8 Mary therefore took a pound of expensive ointment made from pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair. The house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was about to betray him), said, "Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?" He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it. Jesus said, "Leave her alone, so that she may keep it for the day of my burial.The poor you always have with you, but you do not always have me."

I think these verses are important to look upon. Beautiful crosses should be about glorifying God and the beautiful thing He did for us. I think for a lot of people that is what it is.

I was thinking about using this verse in the OP to show how the analogy does not work.

Her perfume was a key ingredient in her profession, by pouring the perfume out on Jesus she sacrificed her lifestyle, and economic means, to follow Christ. Also, it was for Jesus' burial, as Jesus himself pointed out. Lastly, Jesus clearly said it was a one time deal not just by pointing to his burial, but pointing out, "you do not always have me." IMAO, meaning, in his physical/earthly form.

What would glorify God more: Crosses made of expensive materials (analogous to the extravagant wardrobe of the Pharisees), or using those resources to follow even the most basic of Jesus' Commandments?

[k]

I like the star of David with the cross inside, that's what I wear. What I DO disagree with, is the huge 10 inch long crosses people wear, full of gold and diamonds, to show their wealth. I know someone like that, and where his heart is, only God knows.
I also ran into it when I worked at BP, and the drugrunners used to stop on their way from Detroit to NY, and they also had those huge crosses. THAT makes me mad, people who don't even know the Lord, breaking the law, with huge crosses-why????????????

My honest answer is that since the cross has been so well marketed that it has lost some of its inherent truths. Therefore, it is not revered by those who do not know Christ. It is no different than someone who goes around saying they are a Christian yet completely lacks love. People do not respect what is not respected.

[k]

The cross is an ugly and terrible thing. If we go soft or make it look beautiful I think we take away from what Christ did for us. His full payment for our sins needs to be recognized by new christians as the grueling deed it was. I don't like to look at the bloody christ crosses but they are the ones that tell of the horrible and wonderful truth.

I agree and thanks for bringing in this perspective. It would be like upholstering an electric chair w/ an Armani suit, then wondering why people don't respect the power of the chair.

[k]

To me it is just a personal representation of my faith...wether it is gold silver wood or plastic....if God has blessed you...with the ability to buy a more expensive cross the I say good for you. The cross in itself is nothing, but it represents what my savior did for me...there is nothing ugly about it...it was His will...to take our pain, our sins and to die our death...that was love in it's truest form...beautiful!!!
We could say God would rather us feed others before we feed ourselves...
As we gulp down our supersized value meal
Or ride a bike, instead of having a car...you could feed alot of people for what you pay in gas now days.
God has poured out His blessings upon His children, and of course we should give and help those less fortunate...give and it shall be given unto you
We could talk ourselves right into poverty
But whatever you choose to believe...let it be done in faith...

Why equate financial success w/ God's blessings? Considering how much Jesus had to say about wealth, I am having trouble making the connection. The Pharisees and Sadducees were quite wealthy, why didn't Jesus tell them they were blessed?

There is no poverty mind set being pushed here, but simply a challenge to Western Christianity in its consumeristic paradigm.

[Raistlinorr]

In thinking about the Cross, I cannot help but to think it was the ancient version of the electric chair. It was a tool of State sanctioned murder, nothing more, nothing less. Inextricably connected to this thought is the suffering Christ must have endured upon that pre-destined day.

I am leaning towards believing that expensive crosses mock the execution of Christ for mainly three reasons.

1. It's like wearing a scaled down version of an electric chair.

2. Those particular crosses are made of materials that only the elite
of the world can have access to.

3. Christ cared more about us taking care of each other verses what
jewels we displayed.

I am aware that Jesus said we must take up our crosses daily, but after much prayer and careful specualtion, the conclusion is that he was referring to the daily sacrifices we must make in order to obey Christ.

In addition, what would Jesus prefer, that we take the money we have spent on those crosses to feed people, or to wear a nice looking jewel around our necks?

This is in no way an attack on anyone who may wear said crosses. It is merely a cursory exploration into the modernization of Western Christianity.

Thoughts? (and thanks!)

Great post I agree.

Not saying you can't own a cross though have a small simple one hanging in your home if you need reminding of what it stands for. Also if you can buy something very nice and still help those who need it and the Lord gives you the OK after prayer go for it so long as you are not disrespecting him. But why wear what most of society has lost understanding and respect for it does not seperate you from those who are not saved any longer.

It's hard not to look like the world when the world keeps taking things that should be only Christian use. But at least they can not take the mark the Lord puts on us as man can not see it but man can see our actions and these should be what shows we are Christian.

God Bless
Raist

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

If its that big a deal then sell your computer i have 2 i dont use anymore i can sell and we will send our money to the homeless :idea:

[k]

If its that big a deal then sell your computer i have 2 i dont use anymore i can sell and we will send our money to the homeless :idea:

Arguments based on assumptions are dangerous because when it is shown the assumptions are false, then the arguments based on them are completely void.

I DO NOT OWN a computer.

Furthermore, the thread is specifically dealing w/ jeweled, precious metal crosses.

[k]

Great post I agree.

Not saying you can't own a cross though have a small simple one hanging in your home if you need reminding of what it stands for. Also if you can buy something very nice and still help those who need it and the Lord gives you the OK after prayer go for it so long as you are not disrespecting him. But why wear what most of society has lost understanding and respect for it does not seperate you from those who are not saved any longer.

It's hard not to look like the world when the world keeps taking things that should be only Christian use. But at least they can not take the mark the Lord puts on us as man can not see it but man can see our actions and these should be what shows we are Christian.

God Bless
Raist

Exactly.

Though this is not the topic, there is a clear correlation to those Megachurches that look more like malls.

[Raistlinorr]

Exactly.

Though this is not the topic, there is a clear correlation to those Megachurches that look more like malls.

I prefer a simple looking church it's more comfey any way.

God Bless
Raist

[k]

I prefer a simple looking church it's more comfey any way.

God Bless
Raist

Me too, and I think it's because it reflects the humility Christ lived in, and taught us about.

[Raistlinorr]

If its that big a deal then sell your computer i have 2 i dont use anymore i can sell and we will send our money to the homeless :idea:

Your argument is faulty in another way also.
Next year at this time the job I currently work for is going to send me back to school for computers. So to make a long story short I need this one so that I can make more money later to be able to give more money to help in the long run. Lets try to think on long term basis not just today type thing. Ever heard the saying you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day or you can teach a man to fish and feed him for a life time? If I am able to give far more over time than I can once it's better. My car is 10 years old and has over 100k miles on it works fine so I'm not replacing it why spend more on myself than I have to. I'm pretty sure this is what the OP was getting at are we doing most things to make ourself look nice or are we realy doing it for God.

I'm far from rich and make things work out. But with a better job I don't realy plan on living different than now. More money to help with.

Lets get back to topic though.

God Bless
Raist

[ub4me]

Excuse me please...but with all due respect, I equate everything I have as God's blessings...without him I have nothing.
God blesses people different ways according to their needs....and what they do with what they have...some even financially...that dosen't mean that people who aren't doing well in the finance dept. aren't blessed...they could be blessed in other ways...For instance God sees the big picture...and He may see that blessing you financially will change you and turn your eyes off of Him...so he chooses to bless you elsewhere.
(He knows the heart and the hearts intentions...if you think what he did on the cross was beautiful...and a necklace represents that to you...God sees what it means to you..so there isn't anything wrong with it.)(If you think it's ugly...then to wear it would be the mockery...be convinced in your own heart and do accordingly)


May God bless you in any way He sees fit.....:hug:

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

Arguments based on assumptions are dangerous because when it is shown the assumptions are false, then the arguments based on them are completely void.

I DO NOT OWN a computer.

Furthermore, the thread is specifically dealing w/ jeweled, precious metal crosses.
SO WHATS THE ELECTRIC CHAIR HAVE TO DO WITH ANY THING?????

[k]

SO WHATS THE ELECTRIC CHAIR HAVE TO DO WITH ANY THING?????

Crucifixion was state sanctioned murder in Rome just as the electric chair has been stated sanctioned in the US.

[k]

Excuse me please...but with all due respect, I equate everything I have as God's blessings...without him I have nothing.
God blesses people different ways according to their needs....and what they do with what they have...some even financially...that dosen't mean that people who aren't doing well in the finance dept. aren't blessed...they could be blessed in other ways...For instance God sees the big picture...and He may see that blessing you financially will change you and turn your eyes off of Him...so he chooses to bless you elsewhere.
(He knows the heart and the hearts intentions...if you think what he did on the cross was beautiful...and a necklace represents that to you...God sees what it means to you..so there isn't anything wrong with it.)(If you think it's ugly...then to wear it would be the mockery...be convinced in your own heart and do accordingly)


May God bless you in any way He sees fit.....:hug:

To equate EVERYTHING as a blessing from God seems a bit strange on some levels, but on others, I understand. IOW, it can act as a justification for abdicating responsibility by saying, "Well, God blessed us! There's nothing we can do!" In Max Lucado's book, "In the Eye of the Storm" he presents a neat argument about "blessings." How do we know exactly what is a "blessing" from God?

What Christ did for us on the cross was a beautiful, the most beautiful, Sacrifice to be made. What is the best way to honor that? By doing our best to obey Christ or to justify what we want?

It would be nice to see a counter-argument to the actual premises made in the OP.

[Vicissa]

I agree with the poster that stated the crosses that are excessively large, diamond-crusted are overdone, and just a show of a person's financial wealth. But IMO there is nothing wrong with wearing a cross, whether gold or silver, or with shiny jewels on it making it look beautiful. For me, it is a a piece of jewelry that shows what my faith is. Of course our actions should reflect our faith too.

[k]

I agree with the poster that stated the crosses that are excessively large, diamond-crusted are overdone, and just a show of a person's financial wealth. But IMO there is nothing wrong with wearing a cross, whether gold or silver, or with shiny jewels on it making it look beautiful. For me, it is a a piece of jewelry that shows what my faith is. Of course our actions should reflect our faith too.

Shouldn't our Faith in Action be the jewelry? I don't see anything wrong with wearing crosses of humble material (although I personally disagree), but wearing crosses made of materials only accessible to elite of the world seems contradictory to Jesus' teachings about wealth.

[Vicissa]

I understand what you are feeling. But come on now, I hardly consider someone who owns a gold/silver cross elite. I have three crosses. One was an heirloom passed down from my great-grandfather to my grandmother to me. One is those wonderfully pretty but oh-so-fake jeweled crosses from Walmart at 6.99. And the other was a gift from my stepfather, a cross in my birth stone. Since when is silver only for the elite...like only celebs can afford it?
I know that you aren't intending this to be a personal question, and I respect that. But IMO gold and silver aren't strictly for the elite.
Now diamonds, high karat gold, thick chains, precious jewels...well, that could be for the elite.

[k]

I understand what you are feeling. But come on now, I hardly consider someone who owns a gold/silver cross elite. I have three crosses. One was an heirloom passed down from my great-grandfather to my grandmother to me. One is those wonderfully pretty but oh-so-fake jeweled crosses from Walmart at 6.99. And the other was a gift from my stepfather, a cross in my birth stone. Since when is silver only for the elite...like only celebs can afford it?
I know that you aren't intending this to be a personal question, and I respect that. But IMO gold and silver aren't strictly for the elite.
Now diamonds, high karat gold, thick chains, precious jewels...well, that could be for the elite.

Thank you for recognizing it is in no way a personal attack on anyone. Since this has been such an accepted and largely unchallenged area I am sure there are millions of Christians w/ these types of crosses.

When I say "elite" it is a global reference. To you and I it is fairly easy to acquire gold and silver, but to much of the world's population, they can only dream. Just as Bill Gates is an elite to much of America, Americans are the elite to the world.

How many people could we feed and clothe if we sacrificed all of our gold/silver/jeweled crosses? What would be more important to Christ?

I understand these can be piercing questions, but they are not personal attacks. :)

[SteelDisciple]

In thinking about the Cross, I cannot help but to think it was the ancient version of the electric chair. It was a tool of State sanctioned murder, nothing more, nothing less. Inextricably connected to this thought is the suffering Christ must have endured upon that pre-destined day.

I am leaning towards believing that expensive crosses mock the execution of Christ for mainly three reasons.

1. It's like wearing a scaled down version of an electric chair.

2. Those particular crosses are made of materials that only the elite
of the world can have access to.

3. Christ cared more about us taking care of each other verses what
jewels we displayed.

I am aware that Jesus said we must take up our crosses daily, but after much prayer and careful specualtion, the conclusion is that he was referring to the daily sacrifices we must make in order to obey Christ.

In addition, what would Jesus prefer, that we take the money we have spent on those crosses to feed people, or to wear a nice looking jewel around our necks?

This is in no way an attack on anyone who may wear said crosses. It is merely a cursory exploration into the modernization of Western Christianity.

Thoughts? (and thanks!)

Ehh..I think you are looking much too deep into this. Over-analyzing. For many who wear them that are Christian...they wear them as a symbol of their faith. "I'm a Christian and proud of it" For others..it's a symbol of faith AND they think it looks good..which is fine...it's not a question of glorifying themselves..they just like how it looks..I mean..do you go into your close and think "ok..what is the UGLIEST clothes I can wear today?" No..like anyone...we pick out something we think looks good. So, first and formost...it's a symbol of faith...next it looks good. :)

[k]

Ehh..I think you are looking much too deep into this. Over-analyzing. For many who wear them that are Christian...they wear them as a symbol of their faith. "I'm a Christian and proud of it" For others..it's a symbol of faith AND they think it looks good..which is fine...it's not a question of glorifying themselves..they just like how it looks..I mean..do you go into your close and think "ok..what is the UGLIEST clothes I can wear today?" No..like anyone...we pick out something we think looks good. So, first and formost...it's a symbol of faith...next it looks good. :)

The first part is a nice compliment, thank you. :)

The Pharisees wore extravagent clothes/jewelry as symbols of their faith...what did Jesus have to say to them about that?

What's up w/ the "ugliest clothes" question? How is that analogous?

Aside from all of this...I would REALLY love to see an actual response to the premises in the OP. Sorry if that comes off a bit harsh...but the responses in opposition have yet to really address the arguments in the OP.

[SteelDisciple]

The first part is a nice compliment, thank you. :)

The Pharisees wore extravagent clothes/jewelry as symbols of their faith...what did Jesus have to say to them about that?

What's up w/ the "ugliest clothes" question? How is that analogous?

Aside from all of this...I would REALLY love to see an actual response to the premises in the OP. Sorry if that comes off a bit harsh...but the responses in opposition have yet to really address the arguments in the OP.

(over-analyizing tends to get people in trouble often)

As for the ugliest clothes thing. Not so much a question, as it is a point. People wear clothes they think look nice...just like when someone wears a cross, they wear it because it looks nice. But first and foremost because it's an expression of Faith. That's why I said no one goes into a closet and wants to pick the ugliest clothes possible..they want to look nice.

Wearing a cross is a symbol of faith and a way to look nice all at the same time. You see?

I did respond to the OP's points. The OP said it's like wearing an electrical chair...I said it was over-analyzing...because when a person wears a cross it's to express their faith...symbolizing a life with Jesus...not death.

Ok, I didn't answer some..I see now. As for materials...i'm not sure what country she lives in...but in America a gold necklaces can be bought just about anywhere :P So it's not the elite.

As for Christ not carrying about the jewels displayed...that's correct. But that doesn't mean you CAN'T wear something nice that also expresses your faith.

[k]

(over-analyizing tends to get people in trouble often)

As for the ugliest clothes thing. Not so much a question, as it is a point. People wear clothes they think look nice...just like when someone wears a cross, they wear it because it looks nice. But first and foremost because it's an expression of Faith. That's why I said no one goes into a closet and wants to pick the ugliest clothes possible..they want to look nice.

Wearing a cross is a symbol of faith and a way to look nice all at the same time. You see?

I did respond to the OP's points. The OP said it's like wearing an electrical chair...I said it was over-analyzing...because when a person wears a cross it's to express their faith...symbolizing a life with Jesus...not death.

Ok, I didn't answer some..I see now. As for materials...i'm not sure what country she lives in...but in America a gold necklaces can be bought just about anywhere :P So it's not the elite.

As for Christ not carrying about the jewels displayed...that's correct. But that doesn't mean you CAN'T wear something nice that also expresses your faith.

An accusation of over-analyzing is glossing over an argument, not responding to one.

The ugly clothes point is moot because we HAVE to wear clothes.

As stated in several other posts...the elite is referencing the global scale, not the Western Empires.

People can wear whatever they wish, but...there are a couple of crucial questions not addressed from previous posts.

What is a better expression of Faith: Jeweled Cross or Obedience?

[SteelDisciple]

An accusation of over-analyzing is glossing over an argument, not responding to one.

The ugly clothes point is moot because we HAVE to wear clothes.

As stated in several other posts...the elite is referencing the global scale, not the Western Empires.

People can wear whatever they wish, but...there are a couple of crucial questions not addressed from previous posts.

What is a better expression of Faith: Jeweled Cross or Obedience?

It's over-analyzing that often causes unneeded debates.


The ugly clothes point is infact not moot...as everyone wears clothes...but they have a choice in WHAT KIND they wear. For instances..I own a leather jacket..I like it. I like the look of it..I could have just as easily bought something else...but I like leather. (just an example)

As for the global scale...I don't know a single person who has the money to travel to another country...so...why does it matter what someone else in another country thinks of what i'm wearing? Fact is..it doesn't matter.

Jeweled Cross or Obedience? I'll go with both.

You said that people can wear whatever they wish...they WISH to wear a cross for expression and for looks. Nothing wrong with that.

[Vicissa]

How many people could we feed and clothe if we sacrificed all of our gold/silver/jeweled crosses? What would be more important to Christ?




Hmmm. For the first question, I just have a question in response. What if we sacrificed as well a lot of the things that we invest our money in to help the people who don't have the basic necessities? And as far as what would be more important to Christ, that's simple. Us helping the needy is a far better choice than for us to spend money on some of the things we do.

[k]

It's over-analyzing that often causes unneeded debates.

Mmm...


The ugly clothes point is infact not moot...as everyone wears clothes...but they have a choice in WHAT KIND they wear. For instances..I own a leather jacket..I like it. I like the look of it..I could have just as easily bought something else...but I like leather. (just an example)

Still don't see the relevence.

As for the global scale...I don't know a single person who has the money to travel to another country...so...why does it matter what someone else in another country thinks of what i'm wearing? Fact is..it doesn't matter.

It does not matter what someone in another country thinks. It's a matter of seeking Christ, not peoples' approval or disproval.

Jeweled Cross or Obedience? I'll go with both.

To me, there is a clear contradiction.

You said that people can wear whatever they wish...they WISH to wear a cross for expression and for looks. Nothing wrong with that.

Yes, people can wear whatever they wish, but that does not mean it's in accordance w/ Christ's commandments. Look, I'm not casting down this horrible judgment...but simply challenging what Western Christians seem to accept without introspection.

[k]

Hmmm. For the first question, I just have a question in response. What if we sacrificed as well a lot of the things that we invest our money in to help the people who don't have the basic necessities? And as far as what would be more important to Christ, that's simple. Us helping the needy is a far better choice than for us to spend money on some of the things we do.

I totally agree...but it's a process...we could never get people to sacrifice that much at one time...BUT...what if we could get most Christians to sacrifice their jeweled crosses? That is both feasible and could help a LOT of people.

[Raistlinorr]

Hmmm. For the first question, I just have a question in response. What if we sacrificed as well a lot of the things that we invest our money in to help the people who don't have the basic necessities? And as far as what would be more important to Christ, that's simple. Us helping the needy is a far better choice than for us to spend money on some of the things we do.

I think in this the best form of questioning would be to look at each persons means and life sytle.
Say that Bill Millionair said he was a devote Christian and wore a big bling bling cross. Does not ever have to work has private planes and hugh homes and plenty of cars. Then you have Sam Workforce that says he is a devote Christian wears a normal small silver cross works 40+ hours a week to feed his family and live some what comfortable and makes ends meet.

Ok so Bill Millionair decided to give 1k money to some those in need each month and Sam Workforce gives 100 dollars each month or every two months.

Both are doing good works and still have things they need and want but the real question is would Bill Millionair be doing all that he could for the Lord in his works could he not give more?

The thing is whats more important to us things or doing what the Lord asks?
I'm not saying ppl should not have things they like or want but where should we draw the line? If we have a car thats running and the only problem with it is it's a few years old should we buy another of put that money to use for the Lord?

All of us I'm sure have some things we don't need and are rather pointless except for the fact that they make us happy while we live on this rock we call earth. But if any of us had or have the cash like say movie stars or pro athletes would we be bling bling or live like we are now and share the rest?


And as for crosses being a symbol of faith some one needs to speak to the unsaved that wear them so that they know about this. To most of the world today it's become a fashion statement not a show of faith.

God Bless
Raist

[Vicissa]

I totally agree...but it's a process...we could never get people to sacrifice that much at one time...BUT...what if we could get most Christians to sacrifice their jeweled crosses? That is both feasible and could help a LOT of people.

Isn't it also feasible AND as equally good if we could sacrifice ANY one thing for the greater good of helping others?
For instance, instead of going out to eat stay home and have dinner and apply that money to helping feed and clothe the needly. Or instead of buying a new shirt for yourself, use it to buy some groceries for someone you know is struggling and could really use the help.
Lets encourage and be encouraged to deny some of our wants, to help with others needs. But without specifying giving up your cross around your neck.

[SteelDisciple]

Mmm...




Still don't see the relevence.



It does not matter what someone in another country thinks. It's a matter of seeking Christ, not peoples' approval or disproval.



To me, there is a clear contradiction.



Yes, people can wear whatever they wish, but that does not mean it's in accordance w/ Christ's commandments. Look, I'm not casting down this horrible judgment...but simply challenging what Western Christians seem to accept without introspection.


The relavance? The fact that someone wearing something they like in clothing..and someone wearing a cross because they like the appearance (but not the only reason) has no relavance to each other?

As for Christ's approval...you said it yourself...God doesn't care about our jewels...just because he doesn't care about things like that...doesn't mean he disaproves of us wearing it....not caring and disapproving are two MAJOR differences.

I totally agree that we have to live in what is commanded by God. But God doesn't say "you can only express faith in this particular way! No other!" If someone wants to put on a nice cross as an expression of faith..then I say go for it! Express the heck out of it :)

[SteelDisciple]

I totally agree...but it's a process...we could never get people to sacrifice that much at one time...BUT...what if we could get most Christians to sacrifice their jeweled crosses? That is both feasible and could help a LOT of people.


I can buy a jeweled cross for like $50 or less...that wouldn't be helping all that much. I could go a night without dinner and give more than what it would cost to pay for a cross. :)

But really..most of the crosses I see are just plain old gold or silver..that's it.

[k]

Isn't it also feasible AND as equally good if we could sacrifice ANY one thing for the greater good of helping others?
For instance, instead of going out to eat stay home and have dinner and apply that money to helping feed and clothe the needly. Or instead of buying a new shirt for yourself, use it to buy some groceries for someone you know is struggling and could really use the help.
Lets encourage and be encouraged to deny some of our wants, to help with others needs. But without specifying giving up your cross around your neck.

Actually, the jeweled crosses were specifically highlighted for the impact of witnessing. I've had the opportunity to speak w/ quite a few people who have visited poor countries, and what was consistent was the reactions they received from the natives...they could not comprehend how people could wear the jeweled crosses...it made no sense.

When Jesus said we must take up our crosses daily, clearly he was talking about Sacrificing that which means something to us...the dinners/clothes would not mean as much as the crosses. I hypothesize the reason why is because we have trouble separating faith from materialism. Look at the mega churches that are basically malls.

[SteelDisciple]

Actually, the jeweled crosses were specifically highlighted for the impact of witnessing. I've had the opportunity to speak w/ quite a few people who have visited poor countries, and what was consistent was the reactions they received from the natives...they could not comprehend how people could wear the jeweled crosses...it made no sense.

When Jesus said we must take up our crosses daily, clearly he was talking about Sacrificing that which means something to us...the dinners/clothes would not mean as much as the crosses. I hypothesize the reason why is because we have trouble separating faith from materialism. Look at the mega churches that are basically malls.

Oh man, you are so right on the megachurches!! I was at one once that was selling it's own merchandise!! ughh....sickening.

But anyway..the crosses you are talking about..the mega bling bling...that's rare stuff...I mean..I've lived in some REALLY fancy areas and even there I didn't see bling like that. The most common one you'll ever see are simple gold or silver crosses. Nothing ultra-billionaire fancy.

[SteelDisciple]

Actually..that's a lie. I have seen some wear bling like that. TBN. They pimp God off like He's a brand.

[k]

Oh man, you are so right on the megachurches!! I was at one once that was selling it's own merchandise!! ughh....sickening.

But anyway..the crosses you are talking about..the mega bling bling...that's rare stuff...I mean..I've lived in some REALLY fancy areas and even there I didn't see bling like that. The most common one you'll ever see are simple gold or silver crosses. Nothing ultra-billionaire fancy.

That does not surprise me about the megachurch merchandising...but maybe it's helpful to some degree if they use the profits for charity.

Maybe I didn't make it clear, but I really wasn't talking about the mega bling bling...but the common gold/diamond/silver crosses. Sure, silver may seem like aluminum to us, but when I put it into relation to the impoverished of the world, it changes dramatically, at least for me.

This is the overall challenge...what if we could organize most US Christians to sell their precious metals crosses and funnel that money (which would be in the millions and millions) to...say...help build new homes for the Katrina victims. Maybe I'm too idealistic, but in thinking of Christ's priorites for us, it makes sense.

[k]

Actually..that's a lie. I have seen some wear bling like that. TBN. They pimp God off like He's a brand.

Oh boy...don't get me started! LOL:)

[lipoftruth]

hmmm.... yes, the commercialisation of Christianity... :sick: