heresies....

[eoe]

As some of you know, my extended family is Southern Baptist. Pray for them...

Anyhoo....

My brother in law was telling me the other day re: rich man - eye of the needle.... that there was a gate in Jerusalem that was too small for a camel to enter without kneeling.. anyone heard this one? Well yesterday my own Dad goes off on this too. That got my goat enough for me to disprove it for him.

For anyone that was wondering... There is no achaeological or historical evidence to support the idea that there was a gate in Jerusalem named the eye of the needle or any gate that would have been as described. This also conflicts with the parable as the desciples surely would have known about such a gate and they did not.

So.... This sermon has been going around in the Southern Baptist church for a long time now. Even today they still propogate this idea which although it appears to be benign, actually corrupts the true meaning of the parable......

(Get to the point e...)

This got me thinking about the nature of heresy. Something like this that seems benign enough and really makes for one heck of a sermon catches on with a group - in this case the Southern Baptists - and makes the rounds. By the time that it is proven to be utterly without merit - it is so ingrained in the belief system of that group that they are emotionally attached to it, refuse to give it up and will even fight to defend it.

Is this a common thing in earlier heresies? Do many of them start in the same manner?

[HandmaidenOfGod]

I would say so. After all, the West felt so strongly about Papal supremacy they were willing to split the Church over it and other false doctrines...

[choirfiend]

This is a common Orthodox teaching as well. Who says the apostles didnt know what the eye of the kneedle was? Christ drops it as a casual reference---the fact that the Apostles didn't understand what He was talking about is another thing.

There is also at least one other possible explanation that I have heard, but I dont remember it. This explanation is not heretical as far as I know. The Southern Baptists might have gotten it from us:)

[Llauralin]

It's not just Baptists... that's the Evngelical explination. I have not idea if it's true or not though.

[Matrona]

I read in Reader's Digest some years ago that "camel" is a translation error, that the original word means "rope" and that it was mistakenly read as the word for "camel". So that Jesus would be saying that it is easier for a rope to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven.

[choirfiend]

Heresy, as a word, means to choose or select. Is there anything for fitting for a world filled with denominations where one chooses a church based on what best fits their likes and dislikes?

[Llauralin]

I read in Reader's Digest some years ago that "camel" is a translation error, that the original word means "rope" and that it was mistakenly read as the word for "camel". So that Jesus would be saying that it is easier for a rope to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven.
That's kinda funny; reminds me of all the midevial interest in the "horns" of Moses, because the word for sine or light was mistranslated. I wonder if it's true? I kinda hope not, because I have always lived the mental picture of a camel trying to squeeze through a needle's eye. ^_^

[eoe]

This is a common Orthodox teaching as well.
ug...Have a look here.. (http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm)

[icxn]

Quote from St. Maximus:

It is easier for the unclean nations – this is what the camel symbolizes (among other things) – enter through the narrow and sorrowful way – this is the eye of the needle – than the Jewish people, having the Law and the Prophets – these were their riches. Yet, like the needle falling between two threads weaves them together, Christ – who is the needle – joined the two nations into one [flock]. Also, he who through asceticism and fasting – of which the camel skin is a symbol (cf. John the Baptist) - has made himself thin can easily enter the Kingdom of Heaven as oppose to a rich and glutton who fattens himself daily.

[VickiY]

Hmmm....can we leave it at "It is easier for something really big to pass through something really small than for a rich man to enter Heaven" It doesn't have the same ring to it, but the point is the same!

[OnTheWay]

This got me thinking about the nature of heresy. Something like this that seems benign enough and really makes for one heck of a sermon catches on with a group - in this case the Southern Baptists - and makes the rounds. By the time that it is proven to be utterly without merit - it is so ingrained in the belief system of that group that they are emotionally attached to it, refuse to give it up and will even fight to defend it.

Is this a common thing in earlier heresies? Do many of them start in the same manner?

I think of heresy like a tumor. It doesn't seem that bad until it becomes deadly serious.

[Maximus]

ug...Have a look here.. (http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm)

That was interesting and enlightening.

Thanks.

[Mary of Bethany]

Yes, thank you for that article. I think we can take Jesus' words as hyperbole, just as written.


Mary

[Xpycoctomos]

I read in Reader's Digest some years ago that "camel" is a translation error, that the original word means "rope" and that it was mistakenly read as the word for "camel". So that Jesus would be saying that it is easier for a rope to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven.



I would take anythign they say about the Bible with a grain of salt (whether they are right on this wone or not) because from what I've read, The Readers's Digest is owned by Mormon's. Correct me anyone if I am wrong.

[Matrona]

I would take anythign they say about the Bible with a grain of salt (whether they are right on this wone or not) because from what I've read, The Readers's Digest is owned by Mormon's. Correct me anyone if I am wrong.
LOL! ^_^ And I'll bet "the Mormons" own Coca-Cola too.

[Xpycoctomos]

That's what I heard... is that not true?

[eoe]

That's what I heard... is that not true?
You are funny. Coca Cola is in Atlanta - not Salt Lake.

[Xpycoctomos]

Yeah, but As far as I understand Coca Cola is owned by the mormons (they can own stuff outside of Utah.. the Germans own Chrystler). Honestly, the Mormons, from what I've read, are a very financially powerful group and own a lot! And the ironic thing is that... they can't drink coke! lol. I will try to find where I've read that. Peraps it's just a bunch of hooey :) But I think I heard about Readers Digest in more than one source.

John

[eoe]

hooey
Hooey indeed.
Coca Cola is a public company. Click here. (http://www.cokecce.com/srclib/5.0.html)

[ufonium2]

For what it's worth, the first and only time I've heard the "gate" explanation was from an Orthodox archpriest.

[Matrona]

Yeah, but As far as I understand Coca Cola is owned by the mormons (they can own stuff outside of Utah.. the Germans own Chrystler). Honestly, the Mormons, from what I've read, are a very financially powerful group and own a lot!

"From what I've read". Where exactly have you been "reading"? Have you attempted to check this "source" for yourself?

And the ironic thing is that... they can't drink coke! lol.

That isn't true, either, Mormons can drink Coke. They're encouraged to avoid caffeinated beverages but are not required to abstain from them. Again, where have you been getting your information?

I will try to find where I've read that. Peraps it's just a bunch of hooey :) But I think I heard about Readers Digest in more than one source.

Yeah, it is a bunch of hooey. Next time do some research before passing around urban legends.