How does one...

[Ragamuffins]

How does one become a cathechumin (sp?)? After going to the meeting last night at the Holy Transfiguration church (wow what a book store they have), I went away wondering what I had to do to officially get on the train towards Orthodoxy. One thing I learned last night was somethings just are, and we do not need to explain every little thing. I realized I needed to stop trying to rationalize or compartmentalize everything and just be willing to say, I believe.

For me this is a huge turn from even a few days ago. Today I am willing to say that the Church would not say something if it did not believe it to be true, and therefore I should be willing to trust the church even if things do not make sense to me.

I realized I should not try and make Orthodoxy a part of me but to make myself part of the Orthodox faith. So anyway, after talking to some wonderful people and being asked to come back not only to this church but to another church (St Sophias - who have DL in English once a month) I feel much better and much more enthused about heading forward.

My rational Western mind still has many questions, but they are not as important today as they were yesterday.

So what is the process that is involved in going from inquirer to catechumin?

[Monica, child of God]

:) Your post brought a smile to my face!

Each priest/bishop may do things a little differently. Ask your priest. If there are inquirers classes the priest might want you to attend for a while, get to know you some, see where you are in regard to the faith. If there are no inquirers classes, he may just give or recommend books and ask that you attend services regularly as possible. Then he may make catechumens at a seperate service (say at the begining of Lent) or he may do it together with the service of baptism/chrismation. In any case ask your priest.

Monica

[Oblio]

First off ...

:clap: :clap: :clap:

As to the OP, what Monica said, especially the opening line :)

[Ragamuffins]

Allrighty then, will do :)

[icxn]

I was like :cry:with joy. Now I feel like :blush: for saying that.

[VickiY]

Wonderful! And, what Monica says.... :D

[choirfiend]

See? people are nice! :)

And now you've discovered where the Orthodox Book Stores are:)

Glad that your mind is resting more peacefully~
M~

[eoe]

One thing I learned last night was somethings just are, and we do not need to explain every little thing. I realized I needed to stop trying to rationalize or compartmentalize everything and just be willing to say, I believe.
Wonderful isn't it? Not to have someone try to shove some invented explanation down your throat? Sometimes it really is nice just to honestly say that something is a mystery.

I realized I should not try and make Orthodoxy a part of me but to make myself part of the Orthodox faith.
Amazing! I had a very similar experience. The moment where you realize that you don't want to make Christianity conform to your beleifs and start conforming yourself to Christianity.
I feel much better and much more enthused about heading forward.
:clap:
My rational Western mind still has many questions, but they are not as important today as they were yesterday.
And tomorrow....
So what is the process that is involved in going from inquirer to catechumin?
This varies from parish to parish and priest to priest. There is exactly one person that can give you the right answer to this question. The priest at the parish you intend to join.


Glory to God that he draws another near to him!

[gzt]

Talk to the priest and say, "I think I might want to become Orthodox," or something along those lines.

[Mary of Bethany]

Wow! This is wonderful!

I was thinking of you while driving in to work this morning, and how most of us go through this stage of trying to figure out everything about Orthodoxy and make *it* agree with what we think we know. And then, at some point, it dawns on us that we've got it backwards. I think it happens to every one of us converts!

I've seen so many go through that whole scenario through their posts on the Orthodox Convert board on yahoo. Sometimes it takes more than a year, and they're arguing all the way, then, BOOM, suddenly they're not arguing any more! :doh: :D

As others have already told you, your priest is the one who will guide you through Inquiry and Catechumenate stages. Every priest & parish is different.
Try not to be impatient - it's not unusual for it to take more than a year.

God bless your journey, Bud!

Mary

[HandmaidenOfGod]

God bless you!

Many years! :clap: :clap:

[orthodoxy]

How does one become a cathechumin (sp?)? After going to the meeting last night at the Holy Transfiguration church (wow what a book store they have), I went away wondering what I had to do to officially get on the train towards Orthodoxy. One thing I learned last night was somethings just are, and we do not need to explain every little thing. I realized I needed to stop trying to rationalize or compartmentalize everything and just be willing to say, I believe.

For me this is a huge turn from even a few days ago. Today I am willing to say that the Church would not say something if it did not believe it to be true, and therefore I should be willing to trust the church even if things do not make sense to me.

I realized I should not try and make Orthodoxy a part of me but to make myself part of the Orthodox faith. So anyway, after talking to some wonderful people and being asked to come back not only to this church but to another church (St Sophias - who have DL in English once a month) I feel much better and much more enthused about heading forward.

My rational Western mind still has many questions, but they are not as important today as they were yesterday.

So what is the process that is involved in going from inquirer to catechumin?

Glory to God! You have decided to "sell all", excellent!

My experiance was much the same. I visited the priest for over 2 years on tuesday mornings. We discussed everything and I finally came to the conclusion I was nothing more than a pharisee "ever questioning and never learning" trying to entrap my spiritual father as the pharisees did Jesus Christ. Quite a humbling experiance to look in a mirror and not like what you see.

I suggest you find a godly priest that you can freely speak with and create a relationship with him based on trust and honesty. He is the one that will determine the time of your enterance to the Church as a catechumen. Typically you tell him that you want to be orthodox and he says, ok. This man is typically considered your "spiritual father" (a fulfillment of the Malichi 4:6 prophesy, BTW) There is a short prayer service that brings you into the Church and churched as a catechumen. This is a period of instruction and "academics" prior to baptism, sometimes up to a year. Everyone enters the Christian faith on their own level. Just as a hospital yours may be quick or slow depending on the sickness level. The priest is the doctor. Your responsibility is to tell him what is wrong.

You want to be sure you know what your getting yourself into by becoming Orthodox. What I mean is your spiritual father does not want you coming to him saying "you did not tell me this", father, then, God firbid, you fall away or worse. You see? You want to be certain for this is a life time commitment to a community of like minded believers in Christ. There normally are "catechumen" classes prior to baptism also that many questions can be answered. So many books so little time, also.

lecture over

A great testimony to the value of TAW. Glory to God!

unworthy servant,

kyril

[Xpycoctomos]

How does one become a cathechumin

Okay.. to start off you need three cloves of garlic, a 40 year-old cat's tail (not 39, not 41... 40), a days worth of sweat after having worked in a Pennsylvanian Coalmine (no otehr will do) and the beard hairs from five defunct monks of whatever jurisdiction you are joining (if you can't find monks, defunt readers will do).

When you got that stuff get back to me, I'll fill you in on the rest.... just a heads up... you might want to get a lead vest and fire-proof golves.

John

[Xpycoctomos]

Talk to the priest and say, "I think I might want to become Orthodox," or something along those lines.



Oh yeah... you can do that too... I mean, it's all about preference

[Oblio]

Okay.. to start off you need ...


:D

[Ragamuffins]

Thank you all for your advice. I had a good talk with the Father last night and have made up my mind that he is a pretty good egg, and am going to allow him to tell me what i need to do next. I put int he call right before this post and am anxiously awaiting the call ;)



Okay.. to start off you need three cloves of garlic, a 40 year-old cat's tail (not 39, not 41... 40), a days worth of sweat after having worked in a Pennsylvanian Coalmine (no otehr will do) and the beard hairs from five defunct monks of whatever jurisdiction you are joining (if you can't find monks, defunt readers will do).

When you got that stuff get back to me, I'll fill you in on the rest.... just a heads up... you might want to get a lead vest and fire-proof golves.

John
Five defunct monks you say? Sissy stuff! Must they be living or dead? I off to search for lame defunct monks who cannot chase me as i leave with handfuls of hair ... ;)

[Kolya]

Bud, when God had brought me to the point you are now, I just asked our Priest "when can I be Baptised?" A month later I was Chrismated. That may not happen to you, but be patient, your Priest knows best. You're on the train, enjoy the ride!
Kolya

[eoe]

Okay.. to start off you need three cloves of garlic, a 40 year-old cat's tail
You will have to bring us..... a SHRUBBERY!!!!

[MariaRegina]

Congratulations on your journey home to Orthodoxy.

God grant you many years.

[orthodoxy]

You will have to bring us..... a SHRUBBERY!!!!



neat

[gzt]

Well, I was trusting the priest to inform him about the cats' tails and all that. Remember, we don't know whether he's in a Russian-style parish or a Carpatho-Rusyn or whatever. And the Vlads grads these days!

But, yeah, just keep in mind that you don't want to be a catechumen, you want to be an Orthodox Christian and being a catechumen is merely a transitional state on the way. So don't ask about becoming a catechumen or whatever, ask about what you really want.

[eoe]

Well, I was trusting the priest to inform him about the cats' tails and all that.
And door ogres.... Let's not keep them a secret anymore please. I don't want to lose anymore innocent inquirers.

[Ragamuffins]

Well I talked to him today and he said 2 PM tomorrow we will start having a talk. Since he is an Irishman, I am planning on bringing a leprechan, instead of an ogre ;)

[Photini]

You will have to bring us..... a SHRUBBERY!!!!


LOL!!!

[choirfiend]

Hahaha, a local supply priest who fills in at our church a few times a year is WAY Irish and loves it that way, plus he's one of the biggest jokers/funniest/most joyful people you will ever meet. One of our families has all red-headed children, and one has more bright red than the others, who border on auburn sometimes. When she went up to kiss the cross at the end of church, he said, "Bless you, Irish woman."

She about fell over laughing. I dont think her family is Irish at all:)

[Petronius]

Since he is an Irishman, I am planning on bringing a leprechan, instead of an ogre ;)

If anybody has time and minimum disposition, I would be very gratefull to explain me the sentence above. PM would be best, to avoid off topics...
Thanks in advance, God help

[MrJim]

Glad to hear you are moving onward. Being in the state of "analysis paralysis" is tiring!

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Praise God!

Forgive me....

[ByzantineDixie]

This has been a wonderful thread to read! Great news!

I don't know how things will work for you. I told my priest of my desire to become Orthodox in July. Catechumen classes started in August so I just keep attending the liturgy, attending the classes, helping out for the various church functions and patiently waiting until he says he is making me a catechumen. (OK...maybe not SO patiently!)

As I understand things some parishes bring one in as a catechumen just prior to their Chrismation and some bring the catechumens in well in advance of Chrismation...so it varies. Flexibility...like patience, I think, is a gift of the Holy Spirit! ;)

Let us know how your visit goes and what the priest says.

[Ragamuffins]

Let us know how your visit goes and what the priest says.
Will do.

The parish itself is the size of a medium sized house. The worship area (correct title please) is pretty small and I am not sure how many people attend, but I do not think it is many. Plans are for there to be a store attached to the church mainly for Orthodox books and supplies since there is virtually none in the area.

The meeting is at two, I will try and get back today to tell you all what happend, but might have to wait until tomorrow depending on the weather and stuff.

[eoe]

(correct title please)
Nave?

[choirfiend]

The space for the laity is called the Nave.

The entrance at the back of the church before the nave is the Narthex (vestibule). Behind the Iconostasis is the Altar, which is usually on a raised platform that extends a little beyond the iconstas creating a place for the priest/deacon to walk and bless the icons, called a soleas, and the extra half-circle in front of the Royal Doors where the Priest reads the Gospel is called the Ambo. There will sometimes be a Vestry(where vestments and liturgical items are kept), and usually, a room or area for the Proskomedia, or preparation of the Gifts prior to the Liturgy, which takes place on the Table of Oblation.

This (http://www.oca.org/OCchapter.asp?SID=2&ID=43)is still your best resource for easy indexed topics that answer many a newbie's practical questions.

[Ragamuffins]

We met and it was decided that we should take things slow. The only advice he had for me was to start reading the lives of some of the saints. I bought a Book on the life of Sephraim of Sarov and he gave me a little book by Sephraim of Rose and another about meditations on the DL.

Other than that he said he could make me a catechumin right now if i wanted it, but thought I should take it slow. So we are taking it slow :)

[eoe]

I am very happy for you!
catechumin right now if i wanted it
I am also a bit jealous!

[Dust and Ashes]

:clap: :thumbsup: :crosseo: :liturgy: :hug:

[choirfiend]

I am very happy for you!

I am also a bit jealous!

Dont fret, he might be made a catechumen now and be a catechumen for 2 years. Your priest may say he wants to wait to make you a catechumen and make you one in 6months, to be baptised the following day. These things are not according to a pre-set schedule.

[gzt]

Because, after all, the goal is to be an Orthodox Christian, not a catechumen.

[eoe]

Dont fret
I won't. Let's focus on good stuff eh!


AXIOS!
AXIOS!
AXIOS!

Glory to God that he draws Ragamuffins near to him!

[Theophorus]

.:crosseo::pray::liturgy:

[Ragamuffins]

We talked the other day about not just knowing the life, but living the life. I think he wanted me to read the saints so i have a frame of reference of someone other than Christ who has led an great life.

I had a Presbyterina pastor tell me once that I could read and study God for 40 years and still wind up at the gates of hell looking out. Makes sense to me. So I think Father MacCaffery was trying to get me even more from my Western way of rationalizing things to the new.

I went to Saint Sophias Greek Church today and was lost from the minute I walked in. What is said for me I guess is there is no dumb limey polock (I am half English and half Polish) Orthodox Church, where I can get together with people of my own ilk to praise God. The Greek church was great, it was wonderful to behold, but I felt like the pigeon in a flock of seagulls. Sure I may have been safe and welcomed, but still different.

It is a culture thing, i think.

Wanna hear something funny? Not one of the people in the BOC that I am going to attend is even remotely Bulgarian. Mostly a Heinz 57 crowd. Maybe that is why I may fit in better there?

I am looking for River of Fire online if anyone knows where I can find it please help me :)

[icxn]

...
I am looking for River of Fire online if anyone knows where I can find it please help me :)
Here it is:

http://www.philthompson.net/pages/library/riveroffire.html

:)

[villoththoma]

who is a cathechumin? is that a position in the church?

[Fotina]

We talked the other day about not just knowing the life, but living the life. I think he wanted me to read the saints so i have a frame of reference of someone other than Christ who has led an great life.

I had a Presbyterina pastor tell me once that I could read and study God for 40 years and still wind up at the gates of hell looking out. Makes sense to me. So I think Father MacCaffery was trying to get me even more from my Western way of rationalizing things to the new.

I went to Saint Sophias Greek Church today and was lost from the minute I walked in. What is said for me I guess is there is no dumb limey polock (I am half English and half Polish) Orthodox Church, where I can get together with people of my own ilk to praise God. The Greek church was great, it was wonderful to behold, but I felt like the pigeon in a flock of seagulls. Sure I may have been safe and welcomed, but still different.

It is a culture thing, i think.

Wanna hear something funny? Not one of the people in the BOC that I am going to attend is even remotely Bulgarian. Mostly a Heinz 57 crowd. Maybe that is why I may fit in better there?

I am looking for River of Fire online if anyone knows where I can find it please help me :)

Following your journey is a blessing, R. Glory to God!

One day soon you won't feel so different, instead be in awe at God's great mercy and love that unites people of all races and tongues in One Body, One Faith, One Lord!

Prayers for you in your journey. :crosseo:

Fotina

[gzt]

A catechumen is somebody preparing for their baptism.

[Ragamuffins]

Here it is:

http://www.philthompson.net/pages/library/riveroffire.html

:)
Thanks :) That is a wonderful read by the way to anyone who has not read it !

[Ragamuffins]

A catechumen is somebody preparing for their baptism.
Hmmm. We hadn't talked about that. I have no idea if he wants me to be baptized again or not.

[eoe]

A catechumen is somebody preparing for their baptism.
Maybe it is better stated someone that is preparing for entrance to the church?

[Mary of Bethany]

Yes, if you have had a Trinitarian baptism, you probably won't be re-baptized.

I think taking it slowly is a good thing. Orthodoxy is best learnt by letting it just sink into your pores by attending services, and reading, and talking to other Orthodox. You'll be amazed at how, one day, your whole frame of reference, your whole way of experience the Christian life, will have changed.

Mary

[Ragamuffins]

Gods Revelation to the Human Heart by Fr. Seraphim Rose?

Pretty good little book that gives i think a great warning when speaking of Saint Nicetas of the Kiev Caves. If you do not know the story, I suggest you read it. It was both alarming and eye opening for me anyway.

I am going to start on St Seraphim of Sarov by Valentine Zander today.

I also have Meditations on the Divine Liturgy by Nikolai Gogol which is very interesting and explains to me how Biblical the Liturgy really is.

In your own words, how does one venerate someone else? I have heard many talks about venerating people, but have never understood what this means to each person. Specifically how do you put it into practice?

Thanks :)

[choirfiend]

When it comes to how I venerate people who are saints, they are rather impeccable in my mind (their saintly actions, at least). I trust them. I look to them as role models, as mentors, and as friends. I express love to them by regarding their memory with respect and reverence and I "reverence" their icons as well by kissing them, just as I would if they were still physically with me.

[Ragamuffins]

When it comes to how I venerate people who are saints, they are rather impeccable in my mind (their saintly actions, at least). I trust them. I look to them as role models, as mentors, and as friends. I express love to them by regarding their memory with respect and reverence and I "reverence" their icons as well by kissing them, just as I would if they were still physically with me.
Okay that is great thank you. That does not bother my Western mind at all ;)

[Happy Orthodox]

Pretty good little book that gives i think a great warning when speaking of Saint Nicetas of the Kiev Caves. If you do not know the story, I suggest you read it. It was both alarming and eye opening for me anyway.

...wait till you read that Serafim of Sarov book... that blew me away even being Orthodox for 2+ years :eek: :crosseo: