Does God turn His back on us everytime we sin ?

[PraiseJesusAlways]

Hello & God Bless You ! I am a 16 year old girl, and I have been Christian (non-denominational) since I was little. Recently I've been going to a Pentecostal church (as a non-member) and today (Sunday) they split up the children, the youth and the adults in three seperate groups for sunday school as usual. The church pastor was leading the discussion because she also pastors the youth group and she said that "whenever we sin God turns His back on us because He can not see sin therefore he leaves us". And I disagreed with that because what I read in the word of God is that he will never leave us or forsake us. I told her that if Jesus had not died for us, then God would have to turn His back on us whenever we sin, but since Jesus did die for us God sees us cleansed through the Blood of Jesus. (I think she was trying to scare us away from sinning by saying that "whenever we do sin, even by circumstances/by-mistake God will turn His back on us and leave us " but I believe we should obey God and try to please Him out of our love for Him, not only because we love Him but because He loved us first, Not out of fear, because love out of fear is not perfected love as it says in Romans 8:15) I also told her that by saying that God leaves every single time we sin that we are diminishing God because he is always faithful. She (the youth pastor) was kind of mean and very defensive, she rolled her eyes and told me that I was not going to change her beliefs (& I wasn't trying to, all I was saying was what God was putting in my heart) and she was acting like I was trying to brainwash everyone in the youth group or something. This was very saddening to me, I felt as If I was being persecuted or something :0( Please reply back to this post and let me know your opinion on this. Thank You & God Bless You :0)

[clayharryman]

I don't believe God ever leaves us. This is a scare-tactic used by some to frighten us into never sinning. Well, it won't work. None of us are without sin. If you follow this line of teaching, you ignore God's grace and focus on the law. None of us can be saved by works, only by grace through faith.

Think of the story of the Prodigal Son. Who left? The father? No, the son left. When we sin, we walk away from God. He wants us to come back, but we need to learn a lesson so He patiently waits for our return. Sometimes He will put people or other obstacles in our path to guide us back, but He does not grab us and pull us back.

I was raised in the church but went away on my own for about ten years. During this time, I was about as far away from God as I could get. My life revolved around booze and wild women.

Then, I met (and fell in love with) a woman that wasn't very wild and didn't like my drinking. We both had been raised in the church but had drifted away. Today we have devoted our lives and our family to God.

Did God ever turn His back on us? I don't think so. He was patiently waiting our tearful return to His arms.

[Reformationist]

Hello & God Bless You ! I am a 16 year old girl, and I have been Christian (non-denominational) since I was little. Recently I've been going to a Pentecostal church (as a non-member) and today (Sunday) they split up the children, the youth and the adults in three seperate groups for sunday school as usual. The church pastor was leading the discussion because she also pastors the youth group and she said that "whenever we sin God turns His back on us because He can not see sin therefore he leaves us". And I disagreed with that because what I read in the word of God is that he will never leave us or forsake us. I told her that if Jesus had not died for us, then God would have to turn His back on us whenever we sin, but since Jesus did die for us God sees us cleansed through the Blood of Jesus. (I think she was trying to scare us away from sinning by saying that "whenever we do sin, even by circumstances/by-mistake God will turn His back on us and leave us " but I believe we should obey God and try to please Him out of our love for Him, not only because we love Him but because He loved us first, Not out of fear, because love out of fear is not perfected love as it says in Romans 8:15) I also told her that by saying that God leaves every single time we sin that we are diminishing God because he is always faithful. She (the youth pastor) was kind of mean and very defensive, she rolled her eyes and told me that I was not going to change her beliefs (& I wasn't trying to, all I was saying was what God was putting in my heart) and she was acting like I was trying to brainwash everyone in the youth group or something. This was very saddening to me, I felt as If I was being persecuted or something :0( Please reply back to this post and let me know your opinion on this. Thank You & God Bless You :0)

You are completely correct in your assessment of the way God deals with His children and it is rather strange that a Pastor would purport such an unbiblical notion and then behave that way when you point out her mistake.

I'd pay close attention to the other things she is saying to see if you may want to look elsewhere for nourishment.

God bless

[New_Wineskin]

Hello & God Bless You ! I am a 16 year old girl, and I have been Christian (non-denominational) since I was little. Recently I've been going to a Pentecostal church (as a non-member) and today (Sunday) they split up the children, the youth and the adults in three seperate groups for sunday school as usual. The church pastor was leading the discussion because she also pastors the youth group and she said that "whenever we sin God turns His back on us because He can not see sin therefore he leaves us". And I disagreed with that because what I read in the word of God is that he will never leave us or forsake us. I told her that if Jesus had not died for us, then God would have to turn His back on us whenever we sin, but since Jesus did die for us God sees us cleansed through the Blood of Jesus. (I think she was trying to scare us away from sinning by saying that "whenever we do sin, even by circumstances/by-mistake God will turn His back on us and leave us " but I believe we should obey God and try to please Him out of our love for Him, not only because we love Him but because He loved us first, Not out of fear, because love out of fear is not perfected love as it says in Romans 8:15) I also told her that by saying that God leaves every single time we sin that we are diminishing God because he is always faithful. She (the youth pastor) was kind of mean and very defensive, she rolled her eyes and told me that I was not going to change her beliefs (& I wasn't trying to, all I was saying was what God was putting in my heart) and she was acting like I was trying to brainwash everyone in the youth group or something. This was very saddening to me, I felt as If I was being persecuted or something :0( Please reply back to this post and let me know your opinion on this. Thank You & God Bless You :0)

Yeah . That whole idea is idiotic . If the Lord turned His back when people sin , He wouldn't have sent His Son . Sending His Son is the complete opposite of "turning His back" .

[dvd_holc]

A perfect love removes fear. She is introducing a fear into those who listen. A fear of lose and unacceptance. There is no place for this in us. We don't obey God out of fear. We live for him out of love in great anticaption of the day of restoration. You are feeling the love of God working against the pulls of disharmony. We humble before God, and grace handles the rest.

[discernomatic]

I agree with the others. The way you originally reacted, PraiseJesusAlways, was correct. Jesus may let us wander away from him for a time, that in itself teaches us a lesson as it did with the prodigal son. But he never, ever, turns his back on us. Scripture verses pending, just ran out of time.

[Everlastinglife]

God would never turn His back, but we turn ours. God is Love. Psalm 145:17,"The Lord is righteous in all His ways and loving toward all He has made." The Bible describes God, it doesnt say he turns His back. Deuteronomy 32:4, "He is the Rock, His works are perfect, and all His ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is He." Can we comprehend our God in such a way as this? Job 36:5, "Behold, God is mighty, and does not despise any; He is mighty in strength of understanding." Never doubt what God thinks about you, he loves us always and unconditionally. We need to love and trust in Him. I John 4:8, "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."

[heatherq17]

I agree with you!!

[Bill777]

Hello & God Bless You ! I am a 16 year old girl, and I have been Christian (non-denominational) since I was little. Recently I've been going to a Pentecostal church (as a non-member) and today (Sunday) they split up the children, the youth and the adults in three seperate groups for sunday school as usual. The church pastor was leading the discussion because she also pastors the youth group and she said that "whenever we sin God turns His back on us because He can not see sin therefore he leaves us". And I disagreed with that because what I read in the word of God is that he will never leave us or forsake us. I told her that if Jesus had not died for us, then God would have to turn His back on us whenever we sin, but since Jesus did die for us God sees us cleansed through the Blood of Jesus. (I think she was trying to scare us away from sinning by saying that "whenever we do sin, even by circumstances/by-mistake God will turn His back on us and leave us " but I believe we should obey God and try to please Him out of our love for Him, not only because we love Him but because He loved us first, Not out of fear, because love out of fear is not perfected love as it says in Romans 8:15) I also told her that by saying that God leaves every single time we sin that we are diminishing God because he is always faithful. She (the youth pastor) was kind of mean and very defensive, she rolled her eyes and told me that I was not going to change her beliefs (& I wasn't trying to, all I was saying was what God was putting in my heart) and she was acting like I was trying to brainwash everyone in the youth group or something. This was very saddening to me, I felt as If I was being persecuted or something :0( Please reply back to this post and let me know your opinion on this. Thank You & God Bless You :0)

The old saying God hates the sin and loves the sinner is correct provided the sin is confessed and there is repentance.

[talitha]

The old saying God hates the sin and loves the sinner is correct provided the sin is confessed and there is repentance.
So you are saying that if the sin has not yet been confessed, and if the sinner has not yet repented, God doesn't love him? :scratch:


PJA, although it is true that God never leaves us nor forsakes us, in terms of our standing as His sons and daughters, I can understand where your youth director is coming from. Like clayharryman, I went through a very rebellious period in my life. I can identify with the "prodigal son," who never stopped being his father's son, no matter how hard he tried to distance himself from the family, both in terms of miles and of lifestyle. The father always loved him too -- but he did not follow him to the "cat-houses" and the pig sty. He waited for his son to return to his home, and when he did, he celebrated. There was a distance between father and son that was created by the prodigal son's choices. When I chose to live a life of sin, my heart became divided, and I could not enjoy complete fellowship with God, not like I had before, not until I returned and reconciled myself to Him.

Yes, God's mercies are everlasting, but His truth also endures to all generations......

blessings
tal

[Artificial Intelligence]

The church pastor was leading the discussion because she also pastors the youth group and she said that "whenever we sin God turns His back on us because He can not see sin therefore he leaves us". First part:
She? I agree with the article in this link http://www.gotquestions.org/women-pastors.html
It's a good read especially if you know little on this subject. If she does not believe this when it is so clear, she probably rejects other parts of the bible as well, such as what your question concerns and probably many other things.

Answer to your question:
1 John 3:9 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
1 John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

Quoted from MHCC:
The sons of God know that their Lord is of purer eyes than to allow any thing unholy and impure to dwell with him. It is the hope of hypocrites, not of the sons of God, that makes allowance for gratifying impure desires and lusts. May we be followers of him as his dear children, thus show our sense of his unspeakable mercy, and express that obedient, grateful, humble mind which becomes us. Sin is the rejecting the Divine law. In him, that is, in Christ, was no sin. All the sinless weaknesses that were consequences of the fall, he took; that is, all those infirmities of mind or body which subject man to suffering, and expose him to temptation. But our moral infirmities, our proneness to sin, he had not. He that abides in Christ, continues not in the practice of sin. Renouncing sin is the great proof of spiritual union with, continuance in, and saving knowledge of the Lord Christ. Beware of self-deceit. He that doeth righteousness is righteous, and to be a follower of Christ, shows an interest by faith in his obedience and sufferings. But a man cannot act like the devil, and at the same time be a disciple of Christ Jesus. Let us not serve or indulge what the Son of God came to destroy. To be born of God is to be inwardly renewed by the power of the Spirit of God. Renewing grace is an abiding principle. Religion is not an art, a matter of dexterity and skill, but a new nature. And the regenerate person cannot sin as he did before he was born of God, and as others do who are not born again. There is that light in his mind, which shows him the evil and malignity of sin. There is that bias upon his heart, which disposes him to loathe and hate sin. There is the spiritual principle that opposes sinful acts. And there is repentance for sin, if committed. It goes against him to sin with forethought. The children of God and the children of the devil have their distinct characters. The seed of the serpent are known by neglect of religion, and by their hating real Christians. He only is righteous before God, as a justified believer, who is taught and disposed to righteousness by the Holy Spirit. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil. May all professors of the gospel lay these truths to heart, and try themselves by them.

[talitha]

Let's not turn this into a debate about women pastors. There is a young girl's heart and soul at stake here.

[Artificial Intelligence]

Let's not turn this into a debate about women pastors. There is a young girl's heart and soul at stake here.Hmm? But it's true and this is a good example. If you read my post and not just the opening, you would understand that my post centers around answering the question. Anyway, isn’t hiding the truth the wrong direction to be going in when it comes to peoples heart and soul? It's the truth.

[talitha]

I'm sorry, to be honest I was kind of put off by the huge block of text and didn't read it. I could see that it wasn't about female pastors, but it just seemed to go blahblahblah.... People generally don't read things that are in huge blocks like that.

I agree that hiding the truth is the "wrong direction to be going in when it comes to peoples heart and soul" - but I also believe what Galatians 3:28 says -- "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (The Layman's Parallel New Testament, 1970).

Women do not have a different Holy Spirit......

AND NOW, back to the topic........

blessings
tal

[Artificial Intelligence]

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (The Layman's Parallel New Testament, 1970).

Women do not have a different Holy Spirit......

But that has nothing to do with roles concerning leadership. Maybe you should find a debate thread you are looking for, I just posted a reply to her whole post and that was one issue in it. I don't mind debating this or not but debating on debating is a waste of time.

[pastoroats]

Love is not a form of control from one person over anther. Love – “real love” is about freedom not slavery. God gave us freedom by giving us free choice about the relationship. We can say No and He will not make us love him.

[Kelly]

I would like to agree with the general concensus but what about Jesus saying "depart from me, I never knew you" in Matthew 7?

[Artificial Intelligence]

I would like to agree with the general concensus but what about Jesus saying "depart from me, I never knew you" in Matthew 7?Emphasize “never”. Do you know Jesus and does he know you right now? You do not fit into the never category, Bro. :)
It's a done deal :amen:

Lets emphasize "never" in this passage as well:
Hebrews 13:5-6 Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

[dvd_holc]

I would like to agree with the general concensus but what about Jesus saying "depart from me, I never knew you" in Matthew 7?This know is not as much as knowledge of a person but rather it calls to attention that person or persons in question are not apart of him.

[clayharryman]

I would like to agree with the general concensus but what about Jesus saying "depart from me, I never knew you" in Matthew 7?

Ah, but let's look at that whole quote in context (Matthew 7:21-23 from the NIV):

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

Is "that day" the judgement day? The judgement day occurs after we've had our final chance. The judgement day occurs after we're dead and facing Christ. So, he will tell us to depart from him after we've completely blown it.

As long as we're living, though, we stand a chance. And that chance depends on one thing -- have we accepted Him as our savior?

[pastoroats]

We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ, sooner or later. On that day only one opinion will count.

[Palatka44]

It is we who turn our backs on God when we sin. It is never God who turns away He even will seek us when we stray. This is why Jesus gave us the parable of the Good Sheapherd.
Matthew 18:11-13
11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.:clap:

[Artificial Intelligence]

We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ, sooner or later. On that day only one opinion will count.Hebrews 8:12

[BigNorsk]

I agree with the previous post, the separation from God we experience when we sin is because we turn our back on him not he turns his back to us.

This sounds to me like God can see our sins, though there are times when we would sorely wish he could not.

Jeremiah 16:16-17 NET
(16) But now I, the Lord, say, "I will soon send many enemies who will catch these people like fishermen. After that I will send others who will hunt them out like hunters from all the mountains and all the hills and the crevices in the rocks.
(17) For I see everything they do. Their wicked ways are not hidden from me. Their sin is not hidden away where I cannot see it.

It sounds to me like she has somehow confused how when we stand before the judgement seat we are judged based on Christ's righteousness and not our sinfulness, and has extended that somehow in her mind that God never sees sins.

She also may be referring to this verse:
Isaiah 59:2 kjv
(2) But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [261] his face from you, that he will not hear.

But God's face isn't hid such that he didn't see your sin, it is referring to the breaking of fellowship with God that sin produces.

One thing though, I don't think you should really challenge her publically on things. Doing so doesn't tend to promote understanding but rather conflict.

It would be better to study the question and go to her with a reasoned look at what she said. Maybe you can both learn something that way. Maybe it is a misunderstanding, but publically fighting over it just tends to harden hearts and positions and usually is not productive. In addition, it upsets the order in the church. She is in a position of authority, now she and any other leader is human and makes mistakes, and it usually is not a matter that needs to be dragged out into public humbling. After awhile, fighting and disagreement can become the norm and learning and fellowship stop. There is a time to fight but be cautious about doing so.

Marv

[Artificial Intelligence]

I agree with the previous post, the separation from God we experience when we sin is because we turn our back on him not he turns his back to us.

This sounds to me like God can see our sins, though there are times when we would sorely wish he could not.

Jeremiah 16:16-17 NET
(16) But now I, the Lord, say, "I will soon send many enemies who will catch these people like fishermen. After that I will send others who will hunt them out like hunters from all the mountains and all the hills and the crevices in the rocks.
(17) For I see everything they do. Their wicked ways are not hidden from me. Their sin is not hidden away where I cannot see it.

It sounds to me like she has somehow confused how when we stand before the judgement seat we are judged based on Christ's righteousness and not our sinfulness, and has extended that somehow in her mind that God never sees sins.

She also may be referring to this verse:
Isaiah 59:2 kjv
(2) But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [261] his face from you, that he will not hear.

But God's face isn't hid such that he didn't see your sin, it is referring to the breaking of fellowship with God that sin produces.

One thing though, I don't think you should really challenge her publically on things. Doing so doesn't tend to promote understanding but rather conflict.

It would be better to study the question and go to her with a reasoned look at what she said. Maybe you can both learn something that way. Maybe it is a misunderstanding, but publically fighting over it just tends to harden hearts and positions and usually is not productive. In addition, it upsets the order in the church. She is in a position of authority, now she and any other leader is human and makes mistakes, and it usually is not a matter that needs to be dragged out into public humbling. After awhile, fighting and disagreement can become the norm and learning and fellowship stop. There is a time to fight but be cautious about doing so.

Marv
It's Pentacostal teaching, some believe that Christians loose their salvation at the drop of a hat, I know, they confused the dickens out of me when I was a teen and it messed me up pretty bad. That's stuff is just not scriptural at all. The op Poster should stay with her original non-denom Church and not bother with this Church she is hearing this from.

[gsmart]

Just to put another "rubber stamp" on many of the comments here, but I most emphatically agree that God does not turn His back on us when we sin. To be honest, if that was the case I think we would all see a lot of God's back.

So, while God doesn't turn His back on us when we sin, there is a separation between us and God because of our sins. If anything we are the one turning our backs on God.

[discernomatic]

I agree with the others. The way you originally reacted, PraiseJesusAlways, was correct. Jesus may let us wander away from him for a time, that in itself teaches us a lesson as it did with the prodigal son. But he never, ever, turns his back on us. Scripture verses pending, just ran out of time.
Scripture verses:

I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you." Genesis 28:15.

For the LORD your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your forefathers, which he confirmed to them by oath. Deuteronomy 4:31.

Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you." Deuteronomy 31:6.

Those who know your name will trust in you, for you, LORD, have never forsaken those who seek you. Psalm 9:10.

Arise, LORD! Lift up your hand, O God. Do not forget the helpless....But you, O God, do see trouble and grief; you consider it to take it in hand. The victim commits himself to you; you are the helper of the fatherless....You hear, O LORD, the desire of the afflicted; you encourage them, and you listen to their cry, defending the fatherless and the oppressed, in order that man, who is of the earth, may terrify no more.
Psalm 10:12,14,17,18.

Though my father and mother forsake me, the LORD will receive me. Psalm 27:10.

I was young and now I am old, yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken or their children begging bread. Psalm 37:25.

For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones. They will be protected forever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off Psalm 37:28.

For the LORD will not reject his people; he will never forsake his inheritance. Psalm 94:14.

"The poor and needy search for water, but there is none; their tongues are parched with thirst. But I the LORD will answer them; I, the God of Israel, will not forsake them. Isaiah 41:17.

I will lead the blind by ways they have not known, along unfamiliar paths I will guide them; I will turn the darkness into light before them and make the rough places smooth. These are the things I will do; I will not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16.

But Zion said, "The LORD has forsaken me, the Lord has forgotten me." "Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you! Isaiah 49:14,15.

What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off.´In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost. Matthew 18:12-14.

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:37-40.

While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. John 17:12.

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1-4.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written, 'For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.' (Psalm 44:22) No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:35-39.

And God raised (past tense) us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:6-10

Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." Hebrews 13:5. (Deut. 31:6).

[JVD]

We turn away from God when we sin, he is always waiting there for us to come back to him. He does not turn away.

Like the Father of the prodigal son, he is waiting with open arms for us to come back.

He does NOT turn away.

[davidslaysgoliath]

Absolutely not. God promised to never leave us or forsake us.

God turned His back on Jesus at Calvary so that He wouldn't have to turn His back on us.

[flyingsum0]

When we sin we lose sight of God and His love for us...but at no time will he ever lose sight of us...

[Antoinette.Marie]

God NEVER turns His back on us. WE turn our backs on HIM when we sin. But, the loving Father that He is, He forgives us if we ask for it. I think you might need to look elsewhere (like a different church) for your biblical teachings. Your pastor sounds kinda wrong to me.