diferences?

[LutherNut]

what is the difference in beliefs between LCMS lutherans and ELCA lutheran?

The basic difference bewteen the LCMS and the ELCA is how Scripture is viewed.

The LCMS holds, teaches, and confesses that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired Word of God and the source and norm of all teaching and practice in the Church. We also believe that the Confessions of the Evangelical Lutheran Church as found in the Book of Concord of 1580 are the true exposition of the teachings of Scripture. The BoC is thoroughly Scriptural.

The ELCA (while they will say that the "inerrant, inspired Word of God is the source and norm of teaching and practice in the Church) believes that the Bible merely contains the inerrant, inspired Word of God. This basically means that there are parts of the Bible that are not the Word of God and therefore are not part of Church teaching. The ELCA believes that those places that teach that God does not Call women to be pastors (1 Corinthians 12, 1 Timothy 2, Titus) is not the Word of God, so they ordain women as pastors. They believe that those parts of Scripture that teach that unworthy reception of the Lord's Supper is sinful (1 Corinthians 11) is not part of the Word of God, so they practice open communion and many people receive the body and blood unworthily.

They also do not believe that the Book of Concord is thorougly Scriptural.

There are other differences that stem from this basic difference concerning the view of Scripture.



Jay:)

[ILoveYeshua]

yknow what i find kinda annoying, is these churches that have a giant tv screen, but no altar. y'all ever seen that? what would you think of that? is the screen their altar?

[BalaamsAss51]

yknow what i find kinda annoying, is these churches that have a giant tv screen, but no altar. y'all ever seen that? what would you think of that? is the screen their altar?

They don't want to "offend" anyone. Don't want that sin, death, suffering motif to get in the way of all that happy-clappy singing they do. Don't think, just emote.

Pax

[grabers429]

They don't want to "offend" anyone. Don't want that sin, death, suffering motif to get in the way of all that happy-clappy singing they do. Don't think, just emote.

PaxI actually laughed out loud at that. That is so true of so many churches today. They dont want to be fed spiritually, they just want to feel good. Also, I like how people can just say "Well we dont think thats really what God said" every time they disagree and want to do their own thing.:P

[porterross]

yknow what i find kinda annoying, is these churches that have a giant tv screen, but no altar. y'all ever seen that? what would you think of that? is the screen their altar?


:scratch:
I've not seen that, but then if there's a big screen on around me I don't notice unless there's a sporting event being shown on it.
^_^ :D

[SPALATIN]

:scratch:
I've not seen that, but then if there's a big screen on around me I don't notice unless there's a sporting event being shown on it.
^_^ :D

Now that would be something. be at church and just at the end when the blessing is given the local Football game comes on and everybody stays for the first half.:thumbsup:

[Ethan_Fetch]

It's simple:

LC-MS = The One True Church

ELCA = Evil Lutheranesque Church of Assimilation
;)

[porterross]

Now that would be something. be at church and just at the end when the blessing is given the local Football game comes on and everybody stays for the first half.:thumbsup:


Fabulous idea...but not in the sanctuary. :eek:

A TV screen on the altar? :eek: Heaven forbid!!!

The thought of it makes my "Old School Lutheran" (as my pastor calls me) head hurt. ;)

[SPALATIN]

Fabulous idea...but not in the sanctuary. :eek:

A TV screen on the altar? :eek: Heaven forbid!!!

The thought of it makes my "Old School Lutheran" (as my pastor calls me) head hurt. ;)

Well maybe the Pastor could give the blessing, lead a final processional to the fellowship hall where the Opening kickoff takes place.

In fact, he could say a prayer so that the favorite team wins.

[porterross]

Well maybe the Pastor could give the blessing, lead a final processional to the fellowship hall where the Opening kickoff takes place.

In fact, he could say a prayer so that the favorite team wins.


Hmmm. That'd be OK with me, except for the query, "what is football without beer?" :confused:

Maybe we'd better stick to movie night in the adult bible study room. ;)

[SPALATIN]

Hmmm. That'd be OK with me, except for the query, "what is football without beer?" :confused:

Maybe we'd better stick to movie night in the adult bible study room. ;)

here's a thought. When I visited CTS last month, we had what they call "Gemutlichkeit" on Friday and they tapped a couple of kegs of beer and had happy hour. Granted it wasn't in the chapel, but it was at the seminary. So why can't they buy a keg and have it during the game in the fellowship hall?

It was a new idea to me, but I liked it.

[porterross]

here's a thought. When I visited CTS last month, we had what they call "Gemutlichkeit" on Friday and they tapped a couple of kegs of beer and had happy hour. Granted it wasn't in the chapel, but it was at the seminary. So why can't they buy a keg and have it during the game in the fellowship hall?

It was a new idea to me, but I liked it.



I remember having BBQs and fellowship gatherings at the church as a kid and there was always beer. The men, including my dad, would bring their own ice chests and sit outside. I don't remember anyone ever bringing it into the building, though.

Many of our church gatherings were at people's houses and there were kegs, especially during SuperBowl. That was back when Minnesota and Dallas were powerhouses and it would get pretty exciting.

I think most of us 40-somethin'ers here are so mellow now that even a pony keg would go flat before we could float it, but there was a time....:D

[Flatscan82]

The basic difference bewteen the LCMS and the ELCA is how Scripture is viewed.

The LCMS holds, teaches, and confesses that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired Word of God and the source and norm of all teaching and practice in the Church. We also believe that the Confessions of the Evangelical Lutheran Church as found in the Book of Concord of 1580 are the true exposition of the teachings of Scripture. The BoC is thoroughly Scriptural.

The ELCA (while they will say that the "inerrant, inspired Word of God is the source and norm of teaching and practice in the Church) believes that the Bible merely contains the inerrant, inspired Word of God. This basically means that there are parts of the Bible that are not the Word of God and therefore are not part of Church teaching. The ELCA believes that those places that teach that God does not Call women to be pastors (1 Corinthians 12, 1 Timothy 2, Titus) is not the Word of God, so they ordain women as pastors. They believe that those parts of Scripture that teach that unworthy reception of the Lord's Supper is sinful (1 Corinthians 11) is not part of the Word of God, so they practice open communion and many people receive the body and blood unworthily.

They also do not believe that the Book of Concord is thorougly Scriptural.

There are other differences that stem from this basic difference concerning the view of Scripture.



Jay:)


:preach:


I was born and raised Lutheran; also my father is a LCMS Minster. So I know what it is to be LCMS thoroughly and truly. However I have to disagree with Luther one point. (Please forgive me Luther) the problem is calling the bible "Inerrant". Because inerrant means without flaw, and I am sorry to say the bible has flaws. How ever I shall make a distinction here. The word of God is inerrant, but the bible is not inerrant.

Case in point Matthew 1:1-17

these viruses go though the genealogy of Christ it states there are 42 generations in all. However if you count them there is only 41 (including Jesus). The problem is in versus 17, instead of saying Joseph husband of Mary, it should read Joseph father of Mary. Once you go back to the original Greek this is what it also states.

Keeping in mind with the genealogy theme, it does the sort of the same thing in Luke. Only it gives the same genealogy (minus a few generations) but it sates that it is the genealogy of Joseph and not of Mary. If you follow the genealogy of Jesus by his father it would stop at the Holy Spirit (or God). The same genealogy for Mary and Joseph. As we know the only way this can happen if Mary was Joseph brother. (This is silly to think because that could have never happen)

There are other flaws in the bible but I am not going to menchin the all other wise I would be here all night. But I leave with one last fault, if the Bible that we use today is inerrant as Luther says then why we have four different accounts of Christ rising from the dead?

But please keep in mind that the word of God is inerrant, the bible was written by well intentioned but sinful men Like Christ said in Mark 10:18 “no one is good but God” . and since were are not good nothing perfectly good can be done by us.

[Flatscan82]

I actually laughed out loud at that. That is so true of so many churches today. They dont want to be fed spiritually, they just want to feel good. Also, I like how people can just say "Well we dont think thats really what God said" every time they disagree and want to do their own thing.:P

I find it to be anyoing also, but if it brings people cloeser to God then who are we to Judge?

Corinthians 12: 4-6

There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men

basicly i take that to each his own and the spirit works diffrently into difftrent people.

[walloffire]

The basic difference bewteen the LCMS and the ELCA is how Scripture is viewed.

The LCMS holds, teaches, and confesses that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired Word of God and the source and norm of all teaching and practice in the Church. We also believe that the Confessions of the Evangelical Lutheran Church as found in the Book of Concord of 1580 are the true exposition of the teachings of Scripture. The BoC is thoroughly Scriptural.

The ELCA (while they will say that the "inerrant, inspired Word of God is the source and norm of teaching and practice in the Church) believes that the Bible merely contains the inerrant, inspired Word of God. This basically means that there are parts of the Bible that are not the Word of God and therefore are not part of Church teaching. The ELCA believes that those places that teach that God does not Call women to be pastors (1 Corinthians 12, 1 Timothy 2, Titus) is not the Word of God, so they ordain women as pastors. They believe that those parts of Scripture that teach that unworthy reception of the Lord's Supper is sinful (1 Corinthians 11) is not part of the Word of God, so they practice open communion and many people receive the body and blood unworthily.

They also do not believe that the Book of Concord is thorougly Scriptural.

There are other differences that stem from this basic difference concerning the view of Scripture.



Jay:)


What is the difference between a Lutheran and a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ?

nothing?
anything?

So, was Peter a Missouri Synod Lutheran, so-to-speak?

Or, for instance, as some have said, was Jesus a southern baptist?

Its like.... no, Jesus was, is, and ever shall be the King of the Jews, the Lord of Lords who made everything.

Which people do you think will "get in"? Only Lutherans of the Missouri Synod persuasion? That idea is of course rather narrow-minded.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Separation and division has invaded the church, its people, and the leaven of hypocrisy spreads daily. Why will people not cast out the evil from amongst them?

1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

The church has been so busy trying to fix the world but it hasn't spent an ounce of energy fixing itself. Paul directed us to judge those within the church, inasmuch as he said above. That is, if you're going to be looking for people who have holy behavior, look in the church, because you aren't going to find holiness out in the world. Mercy is essential, but so is repentance and unity in the body of Christ.

Those are essential also, and as Paul said, "Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person." What, do we think ourselves more spiritual than him? who was beaten and stoned so oft? Oh but so many people chalk up his views to nothing more than a product of his culture. How many people disregard his writing here?

1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Unbelievers think this is a product of archaic cultural thinking. But this is the Bible, God-breathed. This is the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul who had also done miracles and healed people. Here is what he wrote in context, but who has ears to hear?

1 Corinthians 11:1-19
(1) Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
(2) Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
(3) But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
(4) Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head.
(5) But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
(6) For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
(7) For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
(8) For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
(9) Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
(10) For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
(11) Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
(12) For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
(13) Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
(14) Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
(15) But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
(16) But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
(17) Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
(18) For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
(19) For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

But I bet you that, what, 90% of women will never cover their hair once in a church, forsaking the teaching of the apostles. And why? Do they think they are more advanced because they ignore the writings of the Holy Bible?

Mar 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

[walloffire]

(16) But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

[LilLamb219]

Which people do you think will "get in"? Only Lutherans of the Missouri Synod persuasion? That idea is of course rather narrow-minded.

No one has said that. Are you making a false accusation?

[Hunterkirk]

I hate to say it but that is a common element between the liberal and conservative branches of any religion. In the Lutherian Church the LCMS currently sides on Conservative in which what the Bible says is the word of God. The Liberal side picks and chooses what part of the Bible it feels are truely the word of God and this list changes based on the social and political whims of any given time.

This is why I can not be a of the ELCA, or any liberal Church as I fully believe the Bible to be the Word of God and try my best not to pick a choose from it. In fact this stand of the LCMS is what brought me to join it. Should they at a future time abandon such a position I would be force to abandon them as the Bibles my guide and The Book of Concord is the best study of the Bible I have encountered.

[DaRev]

No one has said that. Are you making a false accusation?

Don't feed the Troll.

[WildStrawberry]

And good heavens, Please don't raise Zombie threads! :D

Kae

[Tofferer]

Let zombies lay dead.

As for the teachings of the ELCA, that was part of why we left. Any church that would deny any part of the scripture is NOT a church. Please don't get me wrong, I know we Lutherans are not 100% correct, but I firmly believe we are closer to the truth than anyone else. Of course I don't think that the ELCA should calls itself lutheran either.

[RadMan]

Where did this guy get the idea that only LCMS people would be saved? I think he needs to do more studying. He clams he's Lutheran but obviously doesn't know a thing about "the church".

[Tofferer]

RadMan,

Mind if I chuckle in agreement? It is only by faith in Christ, which is a gift from God, that we can be saved, regardless of what denominational title we use. The important thing is faith in Christ and his sacrifice upon the cross.

[Lupinus]

I've never been fond of the tv in church idea. If I have to sit so far in the nosebleed section I can't see the Pastor I think its time for another church and Pastor lol. Not to say anything bad about that church, but I am a supporter of smaller churches. Even the larger Cathedrals do fine without TV screens.

[walloffire]

then why the big huff about which churches the LCMS are "in communion" with?

[PreachersWife2004]

then why the big huff about which churches the LCMS are "in communion" with?

It doesn't speak to who is going to heaven. If you thought that, then you thought wrong.

We believe that many Christians from many denominations will be in heaven.

[Tofferer]

We believe that many Christians from many denominations will be in heaven.


This is most certainly true. However, the real question is who in the church believes and who does not. :crossrc:


For those who do not believe, we need to pray for them that God's Holy Spirit would bring them to faith in our beloved Saviour.

[BakaFidelis]

1. I know I am new here and I am sorry if I step on people's toes, but I do not feel there is such a thing as a "zombie thread." If someone has something to say, let them say it. Personally I think it is better than starting a new thread and having someone else post a link to the original related thread and admonish them to "do a search before you post." Truly, that annoys me.

2. Beer is a Lutheran's "kool aid." After all, look where we originated from :D

3. I think that flame post about LCMS was in response to this post from the first page:

It's simple:

LC-MS = The One True Church

ELCA = Evil Lutheranesque Church of Assimilation
;)

[porterross]

wow...how old was that post?

[Tofferer]

wow...how old was that post?
8th April 2006, 04:11 AM