Need your help with something, please...

[contriteheart]

Hello all,

Well, it's looking like I may be a couple of weeks away from joining you as a United Methodist. Actually, I was baptized and raised Methodist, came to Christ in a Methodist Church, was married by a Methodist minister, am the daughter of two life-long Methodists, and the grandaughter of a Methodist preacher - so I guess in a way, I'm coming home again. :)

Here's where I need your help. Before my husband and I make the final step of joining the local United Methodist Church, I would like to read the complete text of the commitment you are asked to make when doing so. Does anyone know where to find that? I don't have a copy of the Book of Discipline, and I couldn't find it in the hymnal - even among the responsive readings and such.

If anyone has access to the text, and can post it, I would be most grateful. :)

With love in Christ,
Grace

[contriteheart]

Well, I found something, but I can't remember if this is all there is to the commitment:

"Will you be loyal to the United Methodist Church and uphold it by your prayers, your presence, your gifts and your service?"

I saw another version which, instead of the "the United Methodist Church" said "(name of congregation) of the United Methodist Church."

I take my promises very seriously, and I feel rather uncertain that I will be able to be a Methodist for the rest of my life (for example - if we move, or if the UMC as a whole makes a serious turn toward religious liberalism), so I'm hesitant to commit unreservedly to the United Methodist Church as a whole.

Anybody have any insights or advice?

With love in Christ,
Grace

[Artos]

Well, I found something, but I can't remember if this is all there is to the commitment:

"Will you be loyal to the United Methodist Church and uphold it by your prayers, your presence, your gifts and your service?"

I saw another version which, instead of the "the United Methodist Church" said "(name of congregation) of the United Methodist Church."

I take my promises very seriously, and I feel rather uncertain that I will be able to be a Methodist for the rest of my life (for example - if we move, or if the UMC as a whole makes a serious turn toward religious liberalism), so I'm hesitant to commit unreservedly to the United Methodist Church as a whole.

Anybody have any insights or advice?

With love in Christ,
Grace

Hi Grace.
I am a Methodist pastor. Been one for the last 25 plus years. Am not UMC but our branch of Methodism in Asia uses the UMC materials. So we are quite familiar with the UMC stuff.

OK-
1.re the promises. Loyal to the Methodist church and support it
NOTE: it didnt say FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE....so there's room to move in the future if it turns too liberal. But that means that while you are in it, you can help prevent it from turning too liberal. Within UMC, there are conservative groups- eg CONFESSING MOVEMENT.Also- there are more conservative/charismatic branches of Methodism around eg Free Methodist Church, Nazarene etc.

2 The vow goes on to say- "support it by" your prayers (pray for churchleaders, members etc) presence (attendance at church), gifts (eg tithes-10 per cent gross of total pay; freewill offerings etc.)service (active participation in local church).

These shouldnt be difficult.
Hope it helps.

[contriteheart]

Hi Grace.
I am a Methodist pastor. Been one for the last 25 plus years. Am not UMC but our branch of Methodism in Asia uses the UMC materials. So we are quite familiar with the UMC stuff.

OK-
1.re the promises. Loyal to the Methodist church and support it
NOTE: it didnt say FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE....so there's room to move in the future if it turns too liberal.

Thanks so much for your help. I really do appreciate it.:)

My problem is, I tend to read the word 'loyal' as meaning sticking by someone, no matter what. I know that I'm being too legalistic here, but I am a person to whom words and promises really mean something.

This is just something that I'll have to come to grips with on my own with the Lord, I guess.

Thanks again for your help.

With love in Christ,
Grace

[sinner/SAVED]

Is your problem with the UMC or with what the UMC may be in the future? I, too, grew up in the UMC and drifted away only to return as an adult. I have no doubt that the UMC is a church full of love for Christ and will always strive to express that love for Christ in everything we do. What more would Christ expect, do you think?

IMO, if the church were to stray to far in either direction we could get stuck in the mud, but hopefully if we get stuck in the ditch on one side, there will be those on the other side to pull us back onto the center of the path where travel is possible, and vice versa.

[contriteheart]

Is your problem with the UMC or with what the UMC may be in the future?

More with what it may be in the future. I do fear facing the struggles that the Episcopals have had to deal with recently.

Thanks for your help! :)

With love in Christ,
Grace

[KCDAD]

Hello all,

Well, it's looking like I may be a couple of weeks away from joining you as a United Methodist. Actually, I was baptized and raised Methodist, came to Christ in a Methodist Church, was married by a Methodist minister, am the daughter of two life-long Methodists, and the grandaughter of a Methodist preacher - so I guess in a way, I'm coming home again. :)

Here's where I need your help. Before my husband and I make the final step of joining the local United Methodist Church, I would like to read the complete text of the commitment you are asked to make when doing so. Does anyone know where to find that? I don't have a copy of the Book of Discipline, and I couldn't find it in the hymnal - even among the responsive readings and such.

If anyone has access to the text, and can post it, I would be most grateful. :)

With love in Christ,
Grace

This is not what you asked... but why "join" the church? All you do is increase the church's responsibility to pay the conference for extra members. You can be a member of the church body without "joining" in some official ceremony.

[contriteheart]

This is not what you asked... but why "join" the church? All you do is increase the church's responsibility to pay the conference for extra members. You can be a member of the church body without "joining" in some official ceremony.

That brings up an interesting question. What do the apportionments pay for?

[Artos]

You can be a member of the church body without "joining" in some official ceremony.

Yes- but that is like cohabiting without the commitment and responsibility of getting married.

[contriteheart]

Yes- but that is like cohabiting without the commitment and responsibility of getting married.

I agree. I'm not looking for a free ride. I'm looking for a place to serve and be an accountable and functioning part of a church community. If we do decide to go there, we will join and serve God there with our prayers, our presence, our gifts, and our service.

I'm still curious (unrelated to this thread), however, what the apportionments are used for.

With love in Christ,
Grace

[sinner/SAVED]

Apportionments enable us together to do things that local churches, on their own, could never afford.

Such as:

Bishop's salaries and expences.
Administrative costs of UMCOR (http://gbgm-umc.org/umcor/) (when you give to a specific UMCOR project, such as Hurricane Katrina relief, the Tsunami relief, etc, 100% of that gift goes directly to the relief effort. The costs involved in running UMCOR is funded through our apportionments)
Ministerial education. The UMC has 13 seminaries and most pastors recieve substantial scholarships to attend, all paid for through our apportionments.
All of the general administrative costs of the UMC.
The General Board of Discipleship which develops and publishes Sunday School materials, etc.

These are just a few that I could think of. There are many, many, more.
Some apportioned funds are used for district and conference ministries also.

[Lightbygrace]

I think this is why I have not actually joined another church since leaving the UCC church I grew up in (nothing bad happened, I just moved away)...I have since become a "generic" Christian :) I attend a Vineyard church on Saturday nights and a United Methodist church on Sundays (how's that for a combo?!). God led me to both and I love them both. :) Not to say that this is the route you should take...Follow God's lead, of course, but just thought I'd offer an alternative...You can behave like a member (support financially and with service, etc) while leaving the door open to other adventures. 'Course, there's that whole thing of having that voting power in congregational meetings...Blessings in your decision, whatever it may be!

LightByGrace



Thanks so much for your help. I really do appreciate it.:)

My problem is, I tend to read the word 'loyal' as meaning sticking by someone, no matter what. I know that I'm being too legalistic here, but I am a person to whom words and promises really mean something.

This is just something that I'll have to come to grips with on my own with the Lord, I guess.

Thanks again for your help.

With love in Christ,
Grace

[KCDAD]

Yes- but that is like cohabiting without the commitment and responsibility of getting married.

How do you figure that? You don't marry the church. You congregate with other believers for edification and worship and support. We should have to pay for that? We should have to pay some fat cat bishop and church board across the nation someplace? Just what God needs, a board of directors and a organizational bureaucracy...

[herev]

This is not what you asked... but why "join" the church? All you do is increase the church's responsibility to pay the conference for extra members. You can be a member of the church body without "joining" in some official ceremony.
conference apportionments based on membership size went out a long, long time ago. There are some District apportionments that are still based on membership, but the amount is minimal

[herev]

How do you figure that? You don't marry the church. You congregate with other believers for edification and worship and support. We should have to pay for that? We should have to pay some fat cat bishop and church board across the nation someplace? Just what God needs, a board of directors and a organizational bureaucracy...
MOD HAT ON
this is not a debate forum. Please keep your comments about the Bishops and General Church civil.
MOD HAT OFF

[alaurie]

Prayers for you, Grace! I think the last sentance of your quote is your key.


My problem is, I tend to read the word 'loyal' as meaning sticking by someone, no matter what. I know that I'm being too legalistic here, but I am a person to whom words and promises really mean something.

This is just something that I'll have to come to grips with on my own with the Lord, I guess.

[Lightbygrace]

Alaurie -

I love the John Wesley quote...It's sooo true. God made us so differently and our worship styles so varied. We really can only agree to be of one HEART...And that is what is important anyway! :) :)

LightByGrace

[Artos]

conference apportionments based on membership size went out a long, long time ago. There are some District apportionments that are still based on membership, but the amount is minimal

Hi Herev.
Interesting to hear that apportionments based on membership size went out a long time ago.

How do you work out apportionments now?

My denomination (non UMC Methodist) follow the old UMC apportionments practice and that really works against those churches that are serving the poor ie when we receive a poor person as a member, we increase the head count and we (the local church) have to pay the poor person's portion of the apportionment(which we call 'conference commitment').

Thanks.