Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement

[Lauri4Him]

I belong to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. That being said, I am somewhat confused by the title of this forum "Reformed Seventh-day Adventist".

I have friends who belong to the "Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement" this is a world wide church group with a history that dates back to 1914 when the original church spilt into two groups during the WW1. At that time they became 2 different groups: Seventh-day Adventist and Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement.

So when I hear Reform and Adventist in the same sentence I think of them and find no association to the church I belong to.

Your sister in Christ,
Lauri

[StormyOne]

well yes Lauri we have told the mods here that the title here needs to be changed for that very reason.... it is supposed to be happening......

[ChristianCandy]

I am a Seventh-Day Adventist too.
My question is, What exactly is the Seventh-Day Reform Movement?
And how is it different from the SDA's?
There is a SDA Reform church in my city too & I just wonder what it is before I go there.

[NinadeDios777]

the church split in two? i hve never heard of that.what sort of things do the reformed churches believe and how are they different?

i think the differencehas something to do wtih the fac that "reformed" curch is more liberal on issues such as music, but i'mnot really sure.

[woobadooba]

I am a Seventh-Day Adventist too.
My question is, What exactly is the Seventh-Day Reform Movement?
And how is it different from the SDA's?
There is a SDA Reform church in my city too & I just wonder what it is before I go there.

Perhaps it could be worded thus:

The reformed movement could be the uniformed movement.

But this can go both ways...

For, those who are trying to change/reform what traditional SDAs believe, are, in some ways, inculcating ideas that are actually contrary to what the Apostles taught.

Moreover, there are also those who are unwilling to break away from the traditional
mold that they've been indoctrinated by, thus refusing to see the errors of their ways. Anything that is foreign to what they believe is regarded as heresy, and is therefore shunned. They are not open to the justified change that some would like to bring about in the church, but would rather get those people who are promoting such ideas excommunicated from it.

What it all comes down to is that Christians should take a course in Exegesis and Hermeneutics, and actually learn how to study the Bible aright, while being completely honest with themselves and God when studying the Holy Scriptures. Thus this will serve to safeguard them from false teachings.

[StormyOne]

Perhaps it could be worded thus:

The reformed movement could be the uniformed movement.

But this can go both ways...

For, those who are trying to change/reform what traditional SDAs believe, are, in some ways, inculcating ideas that are actually contrary to what the Apostles taught.

Moreover, there are also those who are unwilling to break away from the traditional
mold that they've been indoctrinated by, thus refusing to see the errors of their ways. Anything that is foreign to what they believe is regarded as heresy, and is therefore shunned. They are not open to the justified change that some would like to bring about in the church, but would rather get those people who are promoting such ideas excommunicated from it.

What it all comes down to is that Christians should take a course in Exegesis and Hermeneutics, and actually learn how to study the Bible aright, while being completely honest with themselves and God when studying the Holy Scriptures. Thus this will serve to safeguard them from false teachings.
there is a seventh day adventist reform movement....


"In the beginning of the war there were some members, as there are also in other places, who did not want to take part in war service, either because of their lack of unity, or because of fanaticism. They started to spread around their foolish ideas in the congregation by word and in writing, trying to convince others to do the same. They were admonished by the church, but because of their obstinacy they had to be put out, for they became a threat to internal and external peace."
Stuttgarter Neues Tagblatt, September 26, 1918.
Those disfellowshipped from the Seventh-day Adventist Church, not only in Germany but also in many other countries in Europe, had no intention of starting a new church. They were about 4,000 in number. Attempts at reconciliation with the main body were made just after the war, in 1920 and in 1922, but with no positive result.
Therefore, as their numbers increased, the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement was organized as a church, separate from the the main body of Seventh-day Adventists, when representatives from different countries met at Gotha, Germany, July 14-20, 1925. It is the purpose of the Reform Movement to continue with the original teachings and practices of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
http://www.sdarmgc.org/origin.htm

here is their webpage....

http://www.sdarmgc.org/index.html

[woobadooba]

there is a seventh day adventist reform movement....

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http://www.sdarmgc.org/origin.htm

here is their webpage....

http://www.sdarmgc.org/index.html

I never denied that there was one.

The point in my post was: there are those who want to reform the SDA church in that they want to bring it back to those points upon which it has supposedly strayed. And there are those who want to reform it in that they want to bring it back to what they believe to be the apostolic faith/teachings.

Both sides, in some ways, do err theologically.

[silkcity]

the church split in two? i hve never heard of that.what sort of things do the reformed churches believe and how are they different?

i think the differencehas something to do wtih the fac that "reformed" curch is more liberal on issues such as music, but i'mnot really sure.

if i remember my history correctly, the reform movement began in germany out of the refusal of a small group of christians to serve in the german army. the sda church went against the scripture and thought it okay for christians to violate the 10 commandments, or at least part of them. i think around this time is when the medical cadets program was started, to train christians for medical military service.

[Windmill]

Maybe its just where I live, but the reform movement is actually the traditionalist adventists, fighting back the newer things. Things like instead of focusing on prophecy, focus on expanding church growth. Things like, instead of not accepting earrings, accept earrings, and things like instead of singing emotional songs, sing hymns.

I myself am traditionalist. Though not extreme. I'm associated with a group that have completely broken themselves off. I associate myself with them for bible study. I have also been to their camp. I, however, am not part of it, and do not wish to be part of it. What really makes me edgy, is that they do not pay tithe to the church. I don't think this is right.

But yes, maybe we're just more... er, liberal, here.

[Sunrunner]

I echo the sentiments of Windmill. Not all the reform SDA groups are attacking the traditional stuff... many are fighting off the "New Light" that is threatening our core beliefs.

I have studied the beliefs of the Creation Seventh-day Adventists (csda.us), as well as a few of the Historic Adventist ministries. I must say, many of these groups seem to reflect Adventism in its purest form and I am impressed.

[Telaquapacky]

I believe that we as individual believers need to gain reform of ourselves by seeking a fresh baptism of the Holy Spirit every day. There is no good reason to split from the church. We are the Church. If we can't be reformed, splitting off from the main body of the Church will do no good. If we are becoming reformed, the Church needs us to light a candle there. If we are truly reformed, we will not be pointing fingers, condemning and finding fault over nit-picky issues that have no clear Scriptural mandate.

Our church has a group that keeps all the Jewish Festivals. There's nothing wrong with that. But in private they say that you have to keep them. I have a problem with that. But I fellowship with these people and love them, and have on occasion attended their feasts, because I want to promote harmony and understanding on both sides. People who are seeking the truth the best way they know how need to be loved and encouraged in the faith, not marginalized.

I think all this spin-off madness is Satan's attack on the Church. You can only combat it with love. Satan can fight with arguments, but he hasn't yet figured out an effective counter-strategy to love.

[Sophia7]

The Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement is not liberal at all but began during WWI over the issue of military service. Their official website (http://www.sdarmgc.org/) explains their history and beliefs.

The Reformed Seventh-day Adventist forum would perhaps be more accurately named the Progressive Seventh-day Adventist forum because it has nothing at all to do with the actual SDA Reform Movement (SDARM).

[Sophia7]

This thread is now shorter because I have moved the posts dealing with Ellen White to a new thread (http://www.christianforums.com/t3704722-ellen-white-and-inspiration.html) in the main SDA forum to allow for more discussion and to avoid hijacking this thread.

[Sunrunner]

Whoa! I was googling the SDARM out of curiousity, and one of their outreach websites (not sure if it's official) talks about who the Reform Adventists are, and what their goals are. One of their goals is:

We are working for a one world government under God. (Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven.)

I hope they are talking about Church government (i.e. General Conference)! Otherwise, that is disturbing.

Also, it's interesting to note that they believe that 144,000 is a literal prophetic number.

[repentandbelieve]

Whoa! I was googling the SDARM out of curiousity, and one of their outreach websites (not sure if it's official) talks about who the Reform Adventists are, and what their goals are. One of their goals is:

We are working for a one world government under God. (Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven.)

I hope they are talking about Church government (i.e. General Conference)! Otherwise, that is disturbing.

Also, it's interesting to note that they believe that 144,000 is a literal prophetic number.
"The substitution of the precepts of men for the commandments of God has not ceased". ( Desire of the Ages pg 398)

We, as a people should have a spirit of progress. The bible often refers the process of refining and purifying. Through this process rubbish and defiling impurities are removed.

Why would the church be exept from this object lesson?
.
But one thing is certain, the necessary reformation will never be made unless men and women are helped by a power outside of themselves.

[JF5000]

This thread is now shorter because I have moved the posts dealing with Ellen White to a new thread (http://www.christianforums.com/t3704722-ellen-white-and-inspiration.html) in the main SDA forum to allow for more discussion and to avoid hijacking this thread.
What do mean by hijacking?

[JF5000]

Whoa! I was googling the SDARM out of curiousity, and one of their outreach websites (not sure if it's official) talks about who the Reform Adventists are, and what their goals are. One of their goals is:

We are working for a one world government under God. (Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven.)

I hope they are talking about Church government (i.e. General Conference)! Otherwise, that is disturbing.

Also, it's interesting to note that they believe that 144,000 is a literal prophetic number.
I'm with you, on this one.

[JF5000]

This is interesting............

[Jimlarmore]

I belong to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. That being said, I am somewhat confused by the title of this forum "Reformed Seventh-day Adventist".

I have friends who belong to the "Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement" this is a world wide church group with a history that dates back to 1914 when the original church spilt into two groups during the WW1. At that time they became 2 different groups: Seventh-day Adventist and Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement.

So when I hear Reform and Adventist in the same sentence I think of them and find no association to the church I belong to.

Your sister in Christ,
Lauri

Can you tell me the fundamental differences between the two churches. I didn't realize this had happened. I knew about the branch dividians or the shepards rod but didn't know about the reformed movement.

[Sophia7]

What do mean by hijacking?

Taking it off topic.

[Sophia7]

Can you tell me the fundamental differences between the two churches. I didn't realize this had happened. I knew about the branch dividians or the shepards rod but didn't know about the reformed movement.

Read this:
http://www.sdarmgc.org/beliefs.php

And this:
http://www.sdarmgc.org/origin.htm

Those should give you some background info.

[Jimlarmore]

Is the bearing of arms in the military the only major differences? I noticed they didn't speak out against alcohol and tobacco consumption specifically.

[Sophia7]

Is the bearing of arms in the military the only major differences? I noticed they didn't speak out against alcohol and tobacco consumption specifically.

It looks as if their beliefs are pretty much the same (and perhaps even stricter on some issues, such as health and dress) because those who formed the SDARM still believed in Adventist doctrine, apart from that one issue; in fact, they believed that they were being true to the historic Adventist position on that. They also believed that they had been wronged because they were disfellowshipped for refusing to bear arms during WWI. After WWI the Seventh-day Adventist Church itself moved back toward a position of encouraging its members in the military to be noncombatants. However, the damage had been done.

I noticed that the SDARM statement of beliefs includes links to longer explanations. Here is the one under "Health and Dress Reform":
http://www.sdarmgc.org/beliefs/bible_doctrines2.php?doc=18

This description does talk about alcohol and tobacco, among other things. Here is a portion of it:

Health reform is equated with the moderate use of good things. True temperance requires complete abstinence from all things which are harmful to the system, such as: flesh foods (including fish), animal fat, harmful chemicals added to ready-made foods (such as monosodium glutamate), alcoholic drinks, tea, coffee, caffeinated drinks, tobacco, narcotics et cetera. Since the longest list would still be incomplete, we give only a few examples. Hundreds of new products are launched on the market year after year; therefore, each person should find out for himself which ones are to be rejected. See examples in Judges 13:4, 7; Daniel 1:8, 12-16, 20.This list is actually more comprehensive than the one in the SDA fundamental beliefs (http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html) (#22, "Christian Behavior"). The SDARM completely condemns meat eating in its official statement, which the SDA Church doesn't do although obviously we encourage vegetarianism for health reasons. They also seem to take a much more conservative stance on dress than most SDAs.

[Jimlarmore]

Thankyou so much for your response. I think maybe it may be time to move for a repatriation of our brothers and sisters in the reformed SDA movement. However they may be happy just as they are and think we are too liberal at this point. They may have a good point. How prevalent are they in the world? I don't remember seeing a reformed SDA church anywhere in my life time.

[Sophia7]

I've never seen one either. I've talked to people who have visited SDARM churches, but I don't know where they were. I wonder if they have a church finder on their site; I didn't check for that.

[Sunrunner]

http://www.sdarmseusf.org/locations.html

[Sophia7]

http://www.sdarmseusf.org/locations.html

Thanks. :) They're not too widespread, I guess. Nothing anywhere near where I live.

[truthmagnet]

I believe that we as individual believers need to gain reform of ourselves by seeking a fresh baptism of the Holy Spirit every day. There is no good reason to split from the church. We are the Church. If we can't be reformed, splitting off from the main body of the Church will do no good. If we are becoming reformed, the Church needs us to light a candle there. If we are truly reformed, we will not be pointing fingers, condemning and finding fault over nit-picky issues that have no clear Scriptural mandate.

Our church has a group that keeps all the Jewish Festivals. There's nothing wrong with that. But in private they say that you have to keep them. I have a problem with that. But I fellowship with these people and love them, and have on occasion attended their feasts, because I want to promote harmony and understanding on both sides. People who are seeking the truth the best way they know how need to be loved and encouraged in the faith, not marginalized.

I think all this spin-off madness is Satan's attack on the Church. You can only combat it with love. Satan can fight with arguments, but he hasn't yet figured out an effective counter-strategy to love.
Amen and Amen brother. I'm totally with you. Our church is going through some really nonsense arguing and the pastor doesn't help a bit. in fact he wants our small town of 30,000 people to have 5 more churches! He does little to keep harmony in the congregation we have nor the pews full. i have no clue what he's thinking. there has already been one split over all the squabbling. it seems he wants to bring the worldly ways into our church in order to get the world into the church. i sooooooooo don't get it.

[GlorifyHim]

If we go back in time to the original ways of the General Conference and Ellen White ... we would be eating meat and not paying a faithful tithe.

So ... how far back in history should we go?

[moicherie]

If we go back in time to the original ways of the General Conference and Ellen White ... we would be eating meat and not paying a faithful tithe.

So ... how far back in history should we go?
Perhaps far enough to when the church was mainly New England white Americans believing in the shut door theory and eating pork? lol Good thing they were not 'Traditional' but were 'Progressive' enough to be open to the Sabbath etc