Good books about the home church 'movement'

[give2live]

Hi all...

Just got through reading 'Revolution' by George Barna. Very inspiring read. That's the 1st book I've ever read regarding the growing trend of people giving up the 'traditional' church in order to gain a closer relationship to Christ.

Anyone else read it?

Can anyone recommend any similar books that are good?

[Honibee]

give2live, Thanks for making this book known. I've also been considering this
alternative.

[discernomatic]

I'd be careful with Barna. Here is a link to the Barna Group website: http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=201To save time, here is a post that I wrote in another forum after I first went to their site (SA= spiritual abuse):

I hadn't even taken a look at the whole article, but my intuition was right.

Let us begin with the beginning. Look at the top left hand corner under the title of the site, it says, "Your Partner for Information, Strategy, Execution, & Transformation. I hear the alarm bells going off already.

Strategy and Transformation are two words used often these days in church circles to mean that you must approach witnessing and church more as a business, and that the church is being transformed into......insert popular doctrine.
R. Warren is one of those that likes to use this kind of terminology, among countless others. He urges pastors to look at information like this, statistics and trends to be able to attract the members they are looking for (more members=more tithers=more money).

Okay, lets go further on.... the article talks about those disgruntled with church, like us (although they do not take SA into account). The unchurched are Warren's primary target and he has made this target more popular with other pastors. He is pushing new literature about his small group system. That is why the 40 days program was boxed through, many did the study in small groups that were formed for that purpose and they will likely remain after the program is over. All can continue with their own or more conveniently, with Warren's prepackaged program. How timely! How appropriate! How spiritual! How.....add your adjective.

Now let's look further down the article. Aside from Barna's self-advertising about this research there is a punchline of sorts before the last three paragraphs.

"The explosion of Revolutionaries in the U.S., however, raises new challenges for people involved in ministry. “This new movement of God demands that there be new forms of leadership to appropriately guide people in their faith journey,” Barna said. “It requires new ways of measuring how well the Church at-large is doing, getting beyond attendance figures as the indicator of health. And it demands that new tools and resources be accessible to a growing contingent of people who are seeking to introduce their faith into every dimension of their life.”"

Ah, ha! Now we NEED new forms of leadership to control the unchurched. New ways of gaugeing the effectiveness of ministry are REQUIRED. That must mean more forms of controlling people to freely volunteer information about themselves. Warren uses cards passed out in each service to do this. Information can also be volunteered in small groups. I and my parents used to be in a church with cell groups where information HAD to be given. Those that didn't were frowned upon. Testimonies is another way to get information out of people. The Catholic movement, Focolare, relies heavily on testimonies. Scientology does it with auditing. Most people do things voluntarily in a cult at the beginning, through peer pressure. Faith introduced into every dimension of one's life is just another way to say that self-censorship will be implemented in every area - according to their new paradigm. New tools and resources - that must mean books, tapes, house-church program material and the like - are DEMANDED - and they are aimed at US. http://www.christianrecovery.com/vb/images/smilies/eek.gif This may be an overreaction to the article and it may not. I am almost through reading and partially analyzing the Purpose Driven Church (is like nails screeching on the blackboard for me).

No, I don't trust these people, but they are worth keeping an eye on. Barna did get something right,

“Many of them realize that someday they will stand before a holy God who will examine their devotion to Him. They could take the safe and easy route of staying in a local church and doing the expected programs and practices, but they also recognize that they will not be able to use a lackluster church experience as an excuse for a mediocre or unfulfilled spiritual life. Their spiritual depth is not the responsibility of a local church; it is their own responsibility. As a result, they decide to either get into a local church that enhances their zeal for God or else they create alternatives that ignite such a life of obedience and service. In essence, these are people who have stopped going to church so they can be the Church.”

That fits me, too. I was in that situation already before this last bout of SA.
I could also add that I was already wary of false doctrine, and that is why I will stay away from many churches and home-churches. Going it alone or with just a few others and winning the race of faith is better than joining a local church infested with false doctrine and losing it.

End of quote.

[give2live]

This may be an overreaction to the article
Maybe just a tad... but hey, I appreciate everyone's comments. :)

I think you have to take everything you read with a grain of salt. I have 100's of Christian/inspirational books. There's maybe 4 or 5 that I agree with everything that the author said in the book. The other 98% have lots of great points, but I don't agree with everything in them. 'Revolution' is no different. Being that the author is human, it's not a perfect book, but the overall message is very inspiring (IMO, at least).

[ffinder]

I discovered Frank Viola's books by chance
(or Gods leading) after searching the internet
for an entirely different subject about women
in the church

I received a lot of revelation about
the N.T. and the home church movement
and also encouragement, inspiration
and help especially in a time of great difficulty
when i didn't know what to do after leaving a
church, where to stand biblically and basically
absolutely no one from the believers in our area
new anything about our problem.

Highly recommended.

http://www.ptmin.org/books.htm

Yours in Jesus,
Carlos.

[give2live]

Hey Carlos...

I just checked out Frank Viola's website. His books look very interesting. Especially 'Pagan Christianity'. I read the excerpt from it and couldn't help but think how closely it resembled alot of my past church experiences. Sad, but kinda funny in a way, because you start thinking about how ridiculous some of the traditions are that you automatically engage in without even stopping to think why you're doing it in the first place. Or if it's even scriptural at all.

Some of the things he says I don't quite know what to do with, and at times he comes off as a bit condescending toward groups that worship differently than him. I think that's unfortunate. But most of the stuff he says is enlightening and spot-on. Thanks for the link.

[Count]

Hey Carlos...

I just checked out Frank Viola's website. His books look very interesting. Especially 'Pagan Christianity'. I read the excerpt from it and couldn't help but think how closely it resembled alot of my past church experiences. Sad, but kinda funny in a way, because you start thinking about how ridiculous some of the traditions are that you automatically engage in without even stopping to think why you're doing it in the first place. Or if it's even scriptural at all.

Some of the things he says I don't quite know what to do with, and at times he comes off as a bit condescending toward groups that worship differently than him. I think that's unfortunate. But most of the stuff he says is enlightening and spot-on. Thanks for the link.

I have read "Pagan Christianity" and I can say it is an excellent book. Highly reccomended.

[mazbeth]

The one which started us looking into this, 3 years ago, after travelling to a church building weekly, (or more) for 20+ years, was...

Houses that Change the World
by Wolfgang Simson (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=Wolfgang%20Simson&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank/103-8827610-1407034)
Comments

A far more significant book than I expected. It challenges many sacred cows, demonstrates remarkable biblical, theological and strategic
insight. The whole church needs to hear what Wolfgang Simson has to say in this seminal work.
Prof. Kenneth B. Mulholland, Dean, Columbia Bible Seminary

I just kept finding myself saying: That's what I believe!
Daniel A. Brown, Senior Pastor, The Coastlands Aptos Foursquare Church, USA

I read the first pages of the book and my heart was beating so fast I thought I was getting tachycardia.
Dr Dan Trotter, editor of New Reformation Review and Associate Professor of Business Administration, Hartsville, USA

This is pure gold!
Robert Fitts, author of The Church in The House, Hawaii

A monumental and marvelous piece of work! It is going to be a very important contribution to the present situation faced by the church.
Ralph Neighbour, author of Where do we go from Here?

Really superb, excellent stuff! This book has a phenomenal amount of truth, and has a lot to contribute into the debate concerning the
shapes and models of church for the future.
Roger Ellis, Revelation Church, Chichester, UK

I have actually read this book from cover to cover, something which I haven't done with any Christian book in years except Philip
Yancey's What's so amazing about Grace?
Chris Schneider, Servants/Onesimus,Philippines

Great book! I was a Pastor in the Reformed Church in Switzerland for six years, and can agree with a lot from my own experience.
Matthias Schuurmann,theology teacher, Windhoek, Namibia

An excellent book, which goes to the heart of the structure problem in our perception of the church. I completely agree with the analysis
and much appreciate the book and its message.
Patrick Johnstone, WEC, London

How this book echoes in my heart!
Tony Black, Reconciliation International, Scotland

Hits on a very significant topic sure to be a vital element in the explosion of the church around the world. Tremendous amount of great
material. The vision and scholarship of this book are surely the wave of the future. This book is on the cutting edge of things to come.
There is no question that if we are going to fill the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord with millions of new congregations
we will have to return to the New Testament model presented here.
James Montgomery, Founder and President, DAWN Ministries, Colorado Springs, USA

The Carmeliters have always known that a group of more than 20 people cannot have real fellowship. You can avoid each other too
easily. If church wants to survive, she needs new and effective forms. That is what house churches can provide.
Jakobus Richter, Mühlrad, Germany

A unique study, carefully studying New Testament examples of church-planting.
Wes Wilson, Vice President, Every Home for Christ, Colorado Springs, USA

Inspiring! Forced me to rethink some of my convictions.
Michael Strub, Mission Leader, Asia

Ground-breaking! So new and fresh that, to the average reader, it will be quite revolutionary.
Clive W. Clayton, Belgian Evangelical Mission, Brussels

I was thoroughly gripped by this book.
Nic Harding, senior church leader,Liverpool, UK

A very good and highly relevant book, excellent work. Written in a challenging style and spirit, but still remains balanced and mature.
Berthold Becker, Intercessors for Germany

Very interesting reading. God is doing something incredibly significant across the world - that's why, in a way, this book comes as no
big surprise.
Andrew Parham, Leadership Team, Ichthus Fellowship, London, UK

Enjoyed this book heartily. Forthright and passionate, but does not put down those coming from a different position. The analysis of
the difference between cell church and house church is the best that I have read.
Dr Robert Banks, Fuller Theological Seminary, Pasadena, USA

House churches seem to be tailor-made for today's Generation X.
Ulrich Salvisberg, Reformed Pastor and Co-ordinator, Explo 97, Switzerland

Prophetically shocking! An incredible amount of work, hitting on many of the crucial issues facing the church today. A very challenging
and stimulating book.
Robert Mountford, City Vision, UK

Totally agree with the assessment of the Constantinian Church. What also strikes me as absolutely right is the issue of the church
having to become more persecution-proof. This is the absolute opposite of the state church that gives you security as long as you are
obedient.
Björn Larsson, Priest, Church of Sweden

Wow! This book challenges our understanding of church and how it's done. I strongly recommend this book to every pastor and church
leader.
Eddie Smith, Co-ordinator, US Prayer Track, AD2000 & Beyond Movement

This is one of the most significant books that I have seen for a long time.
Peter Brierley, Christian Research, UK

This book is prophetic and may be too early for many people. It is a must for those involved in leadership, and highly recommended for
those involved in frontier missions.
Maarten Bruynes, Leader of FMC, YWAM Holland

I am very sure this book will be of great service to the expansion of God's kingdom.
David Lim, Manila

To be honest, I have given up on all those new church fads and Christian waves. But this thing about house churches excites me deep
down. I have hoped for this type of church to become a reality all my Christian life. I can't believe it might come true! I am so excited I
could cry.
Computer Programmer, Switzerland

This might actually work!
Pharmacist, Switzerland

Something simple, yet dynamic. That is what I have always hoped the church to be.
Medical doctor, Switzerland

I have been 40 years in ministry. Now, after finding out about house churches, I feel I have climbed the ladder, only to realize that it has
been leaning against the wrong wall.
Mission leader, India

This is exactly the type of church I have seen in action, and what the Holy Spirit has revealed to us, before the missionaries came.
Woman, Mongolia

I was blessed, edified and excited, as I read this book. It truly grasps the radical essence of New Testament Christianity.
Pastor Barry Kirk, Tilehurst Free Church (Baptist), Reading, UK

To order from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...488040?v=glance (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/185078356X/002-7117220-1488040?v=glance)

[discernomatic]

Houses that Change the World
by Wolfgang Simson
I followed your link and this is what I found:

A very thorough review of the book:
A House Church Concept With Problems By Greg DesVoignes http://www.crmspokane.org/housechurchchapters.htm (http://www.crmspokane.org/housechurchchapters.htm)
I don't agree with every single word, but with the problems that he addresses in general.

This is a comment from a reviewer at Amazon: if the person reviewing is correct, then there may be reason for concern:

"I got the impression that Wolfgang Simson's view of church government was a bit more like a cell church system put into house church packaging. For example, he presented the idea that a 'pastor' is responsible for many house churches--with the house churches having elders. Many house church advocates see the elevation the role of the one-man pastorate as not scriptural. Wolfgang's view of an apostle as someone who gives others a vision, etc. seems a bit atypical when compared to the views of many house church people in the US. Some see Acts 13 as a model for apostles--with apostles being sent out on evangelistic missions to plant churches. The views presented of five-fold ministries seem similar to institutional cell church views of these roles in the Charismatic movement. The book 'felt' a little like something coming from the Third Wave of Charismatic movement to me.

Another concern of mine is the brief re-hashing of the teaching that 'Nicolaitan' refers to clergy, which shows up in a quote from Watchman Nee. This idea is often repeated in house church circles in the US, but, imo, doesn't fit well with the text in Revelation.

I think Wolfgang's book can serve as a paradigm-shifting book which is especially suited for Charismatics who emphasize the role of five-fold ministry."

To keep the post short I will just list a few links that tell about the ideas in bold. Decide for yourself if you really want to be a part of something like that.

Five Fold Ministry:

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0009a.html

http://www.equip.org/free/DP065.pdf

Third Wave:

http://letusreason.org/Latrain12.htm

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/tenreasons.html

Paradigm:

http://www.jamesfive19.com/Hegelian_Dialectic_and_Diaprax.html especially a link on that page: http://www.professionalserve.com/doublespeak/index96IAR.html

Cell Church:

http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain24.htm about G12

http://www.intotruth.org/apostasy/cell-church6.htm Tricia Tillin has done extensive research, some info. about Simson and Viola are here.

http://www.intotruth.org/apostasy/cell-church7.htm

http://www.intotruth.org/apostasy/cell-church8.htm

[give2live]

discernomatic,
Thanks for the replies but my intent for this thread was simply for people to share books that they've enjoyed. Maybe you'd like to start a thread entitled 'Books that I hate and 50 reason's why I hate each one'.
Just a thought... ;)

[cenimo]

Thanks for posting this. The book sounds interesting. I have a little apprehension about Barna, sometimes it seems like he comes to a conclusion first and then keeps gathering statistics until they agree with already established "conclusion".

[discernomatic]

discernomatic,
Thanks for the replies but my intent for this thread was simply for people to share books that they've enjoyed. Maybe you'd like to start a thread entitled 'Books that I hate and 50 reason's why I hate each one'.
Just a thought... ;)
You called the thread "Good books about the home church movement." I was simply of the opinion that the books might not be good. A lot of people believe everything that they read, and there is a lot of false doctrine running around lately that too many people do not even bother to question. If you want me to keep out of the thread with negative opinions, that is ok, but if no one even questions the doctrine in these books, how will you know that they are really good? What someone has enjoyed is not necessarily good. I don't hate the books I questioned, nor the people that wrote them, I just question the doctrines they promote. It is not a popular thing to do, but discernment is necessary, even commanded.

The home church movement is increasingly becoming a target for some mainstream and emerging churches that want to control it. They are trying to promote their doctrines and programs (power and profit) reaching out toward the as yet untapped resource of the home churched or "unchurched". Some that have escaped controlling and even abusive situations in larger churches would then find themselves trapped again in a smaller one if these programs and doctrines are allowed to expand as planned. They are being purposely planned and marketed as any other product, including the idea of expansion. I am simply trying to warn others of the possible dangers. Once I have an article up about the phenomenon it would only be necessary to list a link. That would not be so intrusive, no one need click on it if he doesn't want to see anything negative.

I am only following what Paul suggested. "...be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage - with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations..." 2 Timothy 2-5. This also applies to books and church programs. I have seen it with my own eyes.

I'll stay out of this thread from now on, if you want me to, but next time you start a thread like this, be more precise with your title, or I'll be back. :P I can no more stop discerning as stop breathing. Jeremiah summed up pretty much the way I feel about it: "But if I say, 'I will not mention him or speak any more in his name,' his word is in my heart like a fire, a fire shut up in my bones. I am weary of holding it in; indeed, I cannot." 20:9.

[give2live]

discernomatic...
Your last post makes a very good point. I agree with you 100% about the need for discernment. But that's kinda beside the point of this thread. Maybe I should've named this thread 'Book suggestions, good or bad...". Sorry if I misled anyone there. That's really all I'm looking for, just book titles (and maybe a brief summary if you want). Other peoples impressions of a book can be helpful, but in the end each person has to decide for themselves if they think a book is ultimately good or bad. BTW I have no desire to keep anyone out of this thread (if my last post came off as a bit rude I apologize - that wasn't my intent) :wave:. If you have any books that you like about home churches, I'd love to hear about 'em.

[MrJim]

Doggone you people!

I read the "Pagan Christianity" excerpt on the link and I'm hooked. I'll be getting that book asap.

I could have wrote that section about prepping, arguing, rushing, and wondering.

[ffinder]

You called the thread "Good books about the home church movement." I was simply of the opinion that the books might not be good. A lot of people believe everything that they read, and there is a lot of false doctrine running around lately that too many people do not even bother to question.

Dear Discernomatic,

I agree with you 100% but i would also like to know
if you have any books to recommend.

Thanking you in advance,
FF.

[discernomatic]

Dear Discernomatic,

I agree with you 100% but i would also like to know
if you have any books to recommend.

Thanking you in advance,
FF.

Hi ffinder,

Up until now I have not found any online literature that I would be willing to pass on to others. I plan on getting a house church group together, but have not found literature neutral enough for my needs. The group I want to be part of should be Protestant, but otherwise doctrinally neutral so that many different Protestants can come. It would have to primarily accomodate Anglicans, Baptists and Pentecostals plus the ex-Catholics that may want to come. Teaching would be important, but I think that the focus should be on mutual edification (learning and teaching), comfort and support of every kind needed.

Some programs are blatantly church-growth, others are just a continuation of other doctrine I really want to stay away from, either Pentecostal, Reformed, word-of-faith, purpose-driven or even apostolic and apostolic/prophetic (the last two found more in the house church form called cell groups). The G12 form has even been called a cult with good reason. I usually do not want to buy a book without looking thorougly at it first, and my only option right now is to get books written in English over the internet.

If I would opt for any one doctrine it would have to be relatively neutral, like something Lutheran, perhaps, but I know of nothing written for house churches by them. An alternative would be Reformed, but they are often too conservative in my opinion. Their studies are usually doctrinally sound, though, and I think they could easily be adapted to fit a more neutral group.

[CandleLightSky]

I recently read Wolfgang Simsons book and thought it was very good. It's the first book I've read about house churches, it makes me eager to get out there and find/start a house church.

He does not support cell churches. His book serves as a sort of introduction to house church concepts and he does compare the House and Cell church structure but the house church comes on top.

He does use the five spiritual offices of sorts- Pastors, Teachers, Evangelists, Apostles, and Prophets. These are not a ruling class, but a sort of circulation in most instances. He describes them in his book quite well, they go from house to house edifying the church but the only people who have authority in the church are the elders and those who attend. I can't explain it perfectly but I wish I could.

He explains everything quite well, I like it, I'm not sure about ALL the theology but no one is perfect.

Discernomatic, I can understand your concern, and we shouldn't rush into things but no one likes a downer. You don't even open up with a hello how are you or anything...You go straight into I don't like this and it's not perfect or whatever. Just chill and realize that nothing is ever absolutely perfect and you cannot just trust one source for anything but look at both sides if you want discernment(this sometimes means buying their books too). Prayer helps too, discernment takes effort.

I think I'm going to look into finding a house church or starting one, wherever the Lord leads.;)

[discernomatic]

Discernomatic, I can understand your concern, and we shouldn't rush into things but no one likes a downer. You don't even open up with a hello how are you or anything...You go straight into I don't like this and it's not perfect or whatever. Just chill and realize that nothing is ever absolutely perfect and you cannot just trust one source for anything but look at both sides if you want discernment(this sometimes means buying their books too). Prayer helps too, discernment takes effort.

I think I'm going to look into finding a house church or starting one, wherever the Lord leads.;)
CandleLightSky, I'll look into the book you recommend, too. Sometimes I just jump into things, am in a few forums and have a website to maintain and expand, don't always have time for cuddly warm-fuzzy-like intros. You are right about looking at both sides, I had been on the other side of what I mentioned, perhaps that is why I spoke against it so strongly. I hate seeing others making the same mistakes I did, don't like to see them going toward a ditch, seems like a waste. Good luck on the house church.