Scribes, Pharisees, and Infallibility

[Fish and Bread]

Jesus told the people of his day that they should follow what the scribes and pharisees taught, because they sat on the seat of Moses and had his teaching authority, but not imitate their actions, which were corrupt. It sounds as if what he might be saying is that they were infallible as a group when it came to teaching the entire Hebrew nation about faith and morals, but not in their personal ethics, decision making, or in applying their moral code to specific individuals or small groups.

I know Jesus was constantly criticizing the scribes and pharisees, though. So, I'm wondering: Prior to Christ's resurrection, can anyone think of a time where the Scribes and Pharisees as a group were wrong on a matter of faith and morals when teaching something about the faith to the entire nation of Israel?

John

[Fish and Bread]

*bump*

[john23237]

It has been rumored for centuries that some might have used their salad forks to eat fish! What do you mean this is not a matter of faith and morals? Next you will be telling us it is O.K. to dislike cucumber sandwiches. The heretics are coming. The heretics are coming! The slippy slope to Hades is upon us!

[Fish and Bread]

It has been rumored for centuries that some might have used their salad forks to eat fish! What do you mean this is not a matter of faith and morals? Next you will be telling us it is O.K. to dislike cucumber sandwiches. The heretics are coming. The heretics are coming! The slippy slope to Hades is upon us!

LOL!

John

[Thomas2618]

Wow. That's funny, john23237. Intriguing post, other John...will be sticking around to learn...

[Fish and Bread]

*bump*

[DarthDigger]

whats with the bumps!!

nice post john23237!

[Naomi4Christ]

whats with the bumps!!

nice post john23237!

The bumps are a type of virtual defibrillator :D

I think John has just stumped us all and none of us know what to say (that's my excuse :D ).

[xristos.anesti]

Great point.

Great question.

What is all knowledge for and all wisdom for, if we are empty of what IS what makes us close to God. Love.

The teachers were wrong for the lack of their substance, the Love, for she is the substance of all things Divine, without love - there is no salvation.

Were they wrong?
Probably not, but sorry is the person that Logos calls upon, and who comes to Him without love.

[Filia Mariae]

Jesus told the people of his day that they should follow what the scribes and pharisees taught, because they sat on the seat of Moses and had his teaching authority, but not imitate their actions, which were corrupt. It sounds as if what he might be saying is that they were infallible as a group when it came to teaching the entire Hebrew nation about faith and morals, but not in their personal ethics, decision making, or in applying their moral code to specific individuals or small groups.

I don't think a statement of authority is tantemount to one of infallibility. Parents certainly have authority over their children, which is affirmed in the Decalogue, but I don't think any of us would claim that God is asserting parental infallibility in matters of parenting.:)

I know Jesus was constantly criticizing the scribes and pharisees, though. So, I'm wondering: Prior to Christ's resurrection, can anyone think of a time where the Scribes and Pharisees as a group were wrong on a matter of faith and morals when teaching something about the faith to the entire nation of Israel?

John

I don't know, but we do know that the Sadducees taught error in denying a resurrection (thus arguing with Jesus about the woman with seven husbands).

[Lel]

The bumps are a type of virtual defibrillator :D

I think John has just stumped us all and none of us know what to say (that's my excuse :D ).

As if that were uncommon! ;)

[Naomi4Christ]

As if that were uncommon! ;)

We can always talk total rubbish if we have to (masqueraded in church history, etc.) :D

[john23237]

Great point.

Great question.

What is all knowledge for and all wisdom for, if we are empty of what IS what makes us close to God. Love.

The teachers were wrong for the lack of their substance, the Love, for she is the substance of all things Divine, without love - there is no salvation.

Were they wrong?
Probably not, but sorry is the person that Logos calls upon, and who comes to Him without love.

This has to be one of the best post I have had the joy to read in a long time. Bless you.

[Thomas2618]

We can always talk total rubbish if we have to (masqueraded in church history, etc.) :D

Again, a rather uncalled for offensive statement.:sick:

[gitlance]

We can always talk total rubbish if we have to (masqueraded in church history, etc.) :D

Well, if people would study Church history, they might actually know what is rubbish and what isn't.

As my Church History professor said the other day: "Every single person (except perhaps the mentally disabled) could understand Church history and the truth of the faith 'once delivered to the saints'. The problem is, most people are too lazy to try, so they live their lives believing lies that they think are Christian truth."

[Naomi4Christ]

Oh, yes, yes, yes

[Thomas2618]

Well, if people would study Church history, they might actually know what is rubbish and what isn't.

As my Church History professor said the other day: "Every single person (except perhaps the mentally disabled) could understand Church history and the truth of the faith 'once delivered to the saints'. The problem is, most people are too lazy to try, so they live their lives believing lies that they think are Christian truth."

I'm even pretty bad when it comes to learning history and I understand and can learn easily Church history and the "truth of the faith 'once delivered to the saints'". The problem is when people who call themselves Christian start only caring about church history since the reformation and don't pay attention to anything prior. Then you start getting congregational church and sola scriptura ideas and such... both of which cause major inconsistency in the faith.

[Naomi4Christ]

It's terrible, isn't it?

[gtsecc]

It's terrible, isn't it?

It seems unusual to me to want to know Christ better, but not have a desire to learn about the undivided church.

[Naomi4Christ]

Yeah, me too

[Thomas2618]

It seems unusual to me to want to know Christ better, but not have a desire to learn about the undivided church.

I agree.

[Naomi4Christ]

.yeah, me too

[Thomas2618]

I think that the sarcasm is showing that you really don't care and shouldn't be debating here anyway. Just my humble opinion though.

[Naomi4Christ]

Oh really?

[Thomas2618]

Naomi, I am only responding to your uncalled for sarcastic comments.

[Naomi4Christ]

Glad to hear it

[Thomas2618]

Naomi, if you are glad to hear it, try listening

[Naomi4Christ]

Oh, I am very trying, believe me, young whippersnapper

[Thomas2618]

I am going to stop posting here for a little while. Neither of us is being very Christian, Naomi.
I will end by saying that the offense I took at your first sarcastic comment stems from the fact that I grew up in a church that cared little about church history, and I have looked into and found it to be very credible and very interesting. To me early Church history is not rubbish. It shouldn't be to any Christian, for without it you would not be Christian today, nor would anyone know about christianity. Also I took offense because your comment was meant to be offensive.

[Naomi4Christ]

Whatever you say, Thomas

[Fish and Bread]

Thanks for the imput everyone! :)

John

[Lel]

We can always talk total rubbish if we have to (masqueraded in church history, etc.) :D

Isn't that all we ever talk about? :P

[svdbygrace]

I am going to stop posting here for a little while. Neither of us is being very Christian, Naomi.
I will end by saying that the offense I took at your first sarcastic comment stems from the fact that I grew up in a church that cared little about church history, and I have looked into and found it to be very credible and very interesting. To me early Church history is not rubbish. It shouldn't be to any Christian, for without it you would not be Christian today, nor would anyone know about christianity. Also I took offense because your comment was meant to be offensive.

:doh:

[svdbygrace]

Isn't that all we ever talk about? :P

I think so... :doh::sigh:

[higgs2]

Isn't that all we ever talk about? :P
Not me. Write down all I say because none of it is rubbish. Quiz later. :P

[karen freeinchristman]

Not me. Write down all I say because none of it is rubbish.

:thumbsup: :)

[DarthDigger]

why is everyone quoting so much!?!?! :D

[Fish and Bread]

Not me. Write down all I say because none of it is rubbish. Quiz later. :P

On EWTN last night, my favorite living monk, Father Benedict Groschel, implied that heaven is a bit like a quiet moment contemplating God intensely and feeling his presence. He paraphrased St. Augustine of Hippo, who told his mother that such instances could occur also when God was being discussed. So, what I got from that is "heaven is a bit like a good theology discussion". I figure we should all be quite at home if that is the case. :)

John

[Naomi4Christ]

why is everyone quoting so much!?!?! :D

It's one of the rules of the forum (I think) - you are meant to quote posts to make it clear which one you are replying to.

[karen freeinchristman]

why is everyone quoting so much!?!?! :D
We do that when we can't think of anything original to say ourselves! ;)

[DarthDigger]

It's one of the rules of the forum (I think) - you are meant to quote posts to make it clear which one you are replying to.


hehe - OK

[higgs2]

We do that when we can't think of anything original to say ourselves! ;)
:)

[higgs2]

We do that when we can't think of anything original to say ourselves! ;)
:o

[higgs2]

We do that when we can't think of anything original to say ourselves! ;)
;)

[DarthDigger]

i know mrs. higgs - we need the blessings!

[higgs2]

i know mrs. higgs - we need the blessings!
:thumbsup:

[higgs2]

i know mrs. higgs - we need the blessings!
*and* I can't think of anything original to say :D

[DarthDigger]

hehe

[marciebaby]

Sorry, I'm drawing a blank here, too.
I can think about how the Pharisees sort of outlined apart from scripture what exactly constitutes breaking the sabbath and what does not. I think this encompassed an area of study all to itself.

[svdbygrace]

Can we please get back on topic everyone? :confused:

(Just wondering! ;) :P :blush: )

[higgs2]

Can we please get back on topic everyone? :confused:

(Just wondering! ;) :P :blush: )
I can't think of anything original to say! :P

[svdbygrace]

I can't think of anything original to say! :P

I can't either! ;) ^_^

[DarthDigger]

can anyone?