Confirmation

[svdbygrace]

Good Evening :wave:

Does the ECUSA accept United Methodist confirmations?

[Fish and Bread]

Nope. I knew someone who was raised United Methodist and they asked me to be reconfirmed when he became part of ECUSA. I think it had something to do with a different theological understanding of what confirmation is in United Methodism.

John

[gitlance]

Nope. As far as I know, we don't accept any outside the historic Catholic churches. Perhaps ELCA confirmations now, but I don't know about that.

[Fish and Bread]

Nope. As far as I know, we don't accept any outside the historic Catholic churches. Perhaps ELCA confirmations now, but I don't know about that.

I can confirm that we do now accept ELCA confirmations. I've seen several adult transfers from Evangelical Lutheran congregations to Episcopalian parishes be received instead of confirmed. It was part of the Called to Common Mission agreement between ELCA and ECUSA (signed in 2001) that we would accept them.

John

[Naomi4Christ]

Accept?

So you are not allowed into church, to take communion, to join a church group, to give money unless you have an acceptable certificate?

[Fish and Bread]

Accept?

So you are not allowed into church, to take communion, to join a church group, to give money unless you have an acceptable certificate?

Any Christian is welcome to show up for services, take communion (if they are baptised), and/or give money for the offering; if they so desire. :) To officially join, though, you must present evidence of baptism and confirmation and then be received the next time the bishop visits, or, if you haven't been baptised, confirmed, or both, you have anything you're missing done instead of being received. :).

I don't see why this would present a problem. If you want to be an adult member in good standing of any organization it makes sense that you'd do the paperwork, initiation rituals, or whatever. Heck, it's more difficult to join the Elks Lodge in some parts of the country than it is to become Episcopalian! :) And, in our case, baptism was an initiation handed down to us by God and confirmation one handed down to us by the early Church, and we believe both of them to have real spiritual effects (In baptism's case, it makes us part of Jesus' family, forgives our sins, and gives us the Holy Spirit. In confirmation's case, it helps awaken the spirit and confirms us as adult Christians. :)). If someone wants to join the Episcopal Church, it makes sense that they would believe these things and want the sacraments. If they don't believe these things, why would they want to join in the first place?

John

[ebia]

In the CofE, the rule is that you have to be confirmed by (or by the authority of, I presume) a bishop. Those churches that don't have bishops but still do confirmations "don't count".

[Naomi4Christ]

Any Christian is welcome to show up for services, take communion (if they are baptised), and/or give money for the offering; if they so desire. :) To officially join, though, you must present evidence of baptism and confirmation and then be received the next time the bishop visits, or, if you haven't been baptised, confirmed, or both, you have anything you're missing done instead of being received. :).

To 'join' the CofE, all you have to do is come regularly to church. You can formalise this by getting your name on the electoral register - the only requirements of this are baptism and either residency in the parish or regular worship at that church.

I know that my DH has never presented evidence of anything and he is a church partner, is on the electoral roll, is a youth leader, and an Alpha leader. I think is fairly well thought of as a member of the church.

[ebia]

To 'join' the CofE, all you have to do is come regularly to church. You can formalise this by getting your name on the electoral register - the only requirements of this are baptism and either residency in the parish or regular worship at that church.
Nevertheless, you are supposed to get Confirmed (if you are not already Episcopally Confirmed) in order to receive Holy Communion. The allowance to receive Communion without Confirmation (as a child or as a visitor) is not supposed to be a temporary measure and not to be taken to imply that you never need to get confirmed. See Canon B15A and the suplimentary material.

[Fish and Bread]

To 'join' the CofE, all you have to do is come regularly to church. You can formalise this by getting your name on the electoral register - the only requirements of this are baptism and either residency in the parish or regular worship at that church.

Neat. It sounds like the main difference is only that on top of that, the Episcopal Church requires confirmation (Or if you've already been confirmed in another church like ELCA or the RCC, reception) to become an official member. That's only if you want to become an official member, though. A lot of folks show up every week and participate in the bible studies and such without ever officially joining. There was a guy in my confirmation class who'd been coming to church for years and years without even feeling the need to formally join (Though obviously he did eventually decide to do so, or he wouldn't have been in the class :)). I don't think you can serve on the vestry in some parishes if you aren't an official member, but that's really the only role you couldn't serve in as a non-member. :)

From a theological perspective, I would highly recommend that folks be confirmed or received and officially join since the sacraments are great blessings to us and Jesus wants us to be members of a Christian fellowship. Also, practically speaking, joining ensures that people'll get the newsletter, be able to have weddings and funerals there, have the opportunity to vote at the annual parish meeting, have the priest visit them if they're sick (Though most priests would probably do that for a non-member anyhow upon request, I'd imagine), be able to tell folks they're Episcopalian with a clean conscience, etc. But we don't look down on the folks who decide not to join. We welcome everyone to our services, even non-Christians! :) If an atheist or a Hindu wanted to come every week, sit in a pew, and respectfully observe the services, I think everyone would be very welcoming and think that was great! :) And any baptised Christians are welcome to receive communion with us every week on top of that, if they'd like to. :)

John

[Mysterium_Fidei]

My Grandparents are being received, but not Confirmed (I think). They were not confirmed previously.

[karen freeinchristman]

I think this is another difference between ECUSA and C of E. We don't have the ECUSA thing of "officially joining". My parents in California are changing from RC to ECUSA, and they are going through the "official joining" process, which sounds much more involved than what we have here in England, and that Naomi referred to as simply being put on "the Electoral Roll".

[gitlance]

To 'join' the CofE, all you have to do is come regularly to church. You can formalise this by getting your name on the electoral register - the only requirements of this are baptism and either residency in the parish or regular worship at that church.

I know that my DH has never presented evidence of anything and he is a church partner, is on the electoral roll, is a youth leader, and an Alpha leader. I think is fairly well thought of as a member of the church.

Maybe in your parish, but that is not global Anglican teaching -- nor is that the teaching of the 1662 BCP which is STILL official in England.

Naomi, how about you get out and travel a bit to see other parishes in England and the UK -- parishes that aren't part of the "Church Society"?

[svdbygrace]

Thank you.

[Naomi4Christ]

Naomi, how about you get out and travel a bit to see other parishes in England and the UK -- parishes that aren't part of the "Church Society"?

Actually, I did go to another church this Sunday, and they were even more outrageous than us. But the worship and teaching was fab!

My church isn't 'part of' the Church Society. They are our patrons, but they do not have any dealings with us except in the appointment process of a new vicar.

ps: we are Common Worship, not BCP.

[karen freeinchristman]

Does ECUSA have anything other than BCP? Do they have Common Worship? We are Common Worship at our main service, and BCP at our evening service. For those who don't know, this is from the C of E website:

What is Common Worship?

In the Church of England, those who lead worship are bound to use only those forms of service that are authorized or allowed by the Church of England's canon law.

The Church of England has two different but complementary sets of services: the 1662 Book of Common Prayer and Common Worship.

Common Worship supplements the Book of Common Prayer with services and prayers in diverse styles. Most of the material is in contemporary language, but some of the services are based on those in the Book of Common Prayer, incorporating adaptations and additions that have become customary over the years.

Unity and diversity

Common Worship provides a common framework and common structures for services in the Church of England, but also a variety of prayers and resources for use within those common structures. This allows individual churches to tailor their services to their own setting and culture and the needs of their particular congregations.

Drafting and approval

The services and resources that comprise Common Worship represent the latest stage of a process of liturgical revision (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/introduction/worship/liturgy/litrevis) which began in the 1920s. They were originally drafted by the Liturgical Commission. The Commission is made up of a variety of people with different expertise, including lay people, parish clergy and bishops, liturgists and theologians. The material was passed on to the House of Bishops, which amended the material as it saw fit. It was then presented to the General Synod.

Forms of services that were alternative to equivalents in the Book of Common Prayer were debated by Synod and revised by a synodical Revision Committee in the light of the comments made by Synod members and the wider public. The House of Bishops then reconsidered them, put them into their final form and submitted them to the General Synod for Final Approval as Authorized Services. To be authorized, each service had to gain a two-thirds majority in each House of the Synod (Bishops, Clergy and Laity).

Additional material, which had no equivalent in the Book of Common Prayer, was debated by the General Synod and then put in its final form and Commended by the House of Bishops.

In the case of authorized services in Common Worship, the Archbishops gave some 800 parishes permission to use draft forms of service on an experimental basis before they were presented to the General Synod. The services were adjusted in the light of feedback from this 'field testing'.

A family of volumes

Common Worship is published in a family of volumes by Church House Publishing (http://www.chpublishing.co.uk/) under the oversight of the Liturgical Publishing Group. The following volumes have appeared so far:


Common Worship: Services and Prayers for the Church of England (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/2000x.html).
This is the main volume. It contains services and resources for use on Sundays, Principal Feasts and Holy Days, and Festivals, in both contemporary and traditional language, together with the Common Worship Psalter.
Common Worship: The President's Edition (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/20026)
This volume contains the Holy Communion and Baptism services, the Collects and Post Communions that appear in the main volume, and:

Collects and Post Communions for Lesser Festivals and Special Occasions
additional Proper Prefaces and Blessings
music for the Eucharistic Prayers

Common Worship: Pastoral Services (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/20077)
The services and resources for Wholeness and Healing, Marriage, and Funerals are contained in this volume.
Common Worship: Initiation Services (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off)
This volume contains the Baptism and Confirmation services together with related material. (The printed version is an interim publication, but with the exception of minor amendments to the Baptism service, the services are in their final form.) In 2005 it will be republished in a volume uniform with the other publications.
Common Worship: Daily Prayer (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/20638) (final edition)
This volume contains orders of service for morning, evening and night prayer for each day of the week, and each season of the Church's year. There is also a wealth of seasonal variants, collects, psalms and other devotional materials.
Common Worship: Collects and Post Communions (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/20875)
This volume contains all of the Common Worship Collects and Post Communions, including the Additional Collects authorized in 2004
New Patterns for Worship (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/20603)
This volume contains guidance on planning worship, resources for use on a variety of occasions and sample services.
The contents of these volumes are available in a variety of editions and formats. For details, look at the range of official products (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/).

The Weekday Lectionary is only available in worked-out form in the annual Common Worship Lectionary (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/20212.html).

Further material to come

The remaining Common Worship material will be published as follows:


Common Worship: Times and Seasons (2006)
Common Worship: Festivals (2006)
Common Worship: Ordinal (2006)
Draft texts for the Times and Seasons and Festivals volumes are among the General Synod papers in the General Synod area of this web site (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/about/gensynod/agendas/).

Other authorized services

The Ordinal (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/texts/other/ordinal/ordinalfront.html) in The Alternative Service Book 1980, as amended, remains authorized for use until 31 December 2005.

The following are authorized for use indefinitely:


A Lectionary and Additional Collects for Holy Communion (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/texts/lect/bcp/lectfront.html) (Book of Common Prayer)
and Schedule of Variations to the Common Worship Second and Third Service Lectionaries.
Public Worship with Communion by Extension (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/texts/other/extension/extensionfront.html).
A full list of Authorized and Commended Services (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/introduction/listauth.html) and Versions of the Bible and of the Psalms (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/introduction/bible.html) is available for further reference.

More on Common Worship

Further information on Common Worship is available in a number of related publications (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_rel/). The following books also contain further information on Common Worship.


M. Perham, New Handbook of Pastoral Liturgy (http://www.chbookshop.co.uk/product.asp?id=14824), (SPCK, 2001)
P. Bradshaw (ed.), Companion to Common Worship (http://www.chbookshop.co.uk/product.asp?id=6782), vol.1 (SPCK, 2001)
M. Earey and G. Myers (eds), Common Worship Today (http://www.chbookshop.co.uk/) (HarperCollins, 2001)

[svdbygrace]

Does ECUSA have anything other than BCP? Do they have Common Worship? We are Common Worship at our main service, and BCP at our evening service. For those who don't know, this is from the C of E website:

What is Common Worship?

In the Church of England, those who lead worship are bound to use only those forms of service that are authorized or allowed by the Church of England's canon law.

The Church of England has two different but complementary sets of services: the 1662 Book of Common Prayer and Common Worship.

Common Worship supplements the Book of Common Prayer with services and prayers in diverse styles. Most of the material is in contemporary language, but some of the services are based on those in the Book of Common Prayer, incorporating adaptations and additions that have become customary over the years.

Unity and diversity

Common Worship provides a common framework and common structures for services in the Church of England, but also a variety of prayers and resources for use within those common structures. This allows individual churches to tailor their services to their own setting and culture and the needs of their particular congregations.

Drafting and approval

The services and resources that comprise Common Worship represent the latest stage of a process of liturgical revision (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/introduction/worship/liturgy/litrevis) which began in the 1920s. They were originally drafted by the Liturgical Commission. The Commission is made up of a variety of people with different expertise, including lay people, parish clergy and bishops, liturgists and theologians. The material was passed on to the House of Bishops, which amended the material as it saw fit. It was then presented to the General Synod.

Forms of services that were alternative to equivalents in the Book of Common Prayer were debated by Synod and revised by a synodical Revision Committee in the light of the comments made by Synod members and the wider public. The House of Bishops then reconsidered them, put them into their final form and submitted them to the General Synod for Final Approval as Authorized Services. To be authorized, each service had to gain a two-thirds majority in each House of the Synod (Bishops, Clergy and Laity).

Additional material, which had no equivalent in the Book of Common Prayer, was debated by the General Synod and then put in its final form and Commended by the House of Bishops.

In the case of authorized services in Common Worship, the Archbishops gave some 800 parishes permission to use draft forms of service on an experimental basis before they were presented to the General Synod. The services were adjusted in the light of feedback from this 'field testing'.

A family of volumes

Common Worship is published in a family of volumes by Church House Publishing (http://www.chpublishing.co.uk/) under the oversight of the Liturgical Publishing Group. The following volumes have appeared so far:

Common Worship: Services and Prayers for the Church of England (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/2000x.html).
This is the main volume. It contains services and resources for use on Sundays, Principal Feasts and Holy Days, and Festivals, in both contemporary and traditional language, together with the Common Worship Psalter.
Common Worship: The President's Edition (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/20026)
This volume contains the Holy Communion and Baptism services, the Collects and Post Communions that appear in the main volume, and:

Collects and Post Communions for Lesser Festivals and Special Occasions
additional Proper Prefaces and Blessings
music for the Eucharistic Prayers

Common Worship: Pastoral Services (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/20077)

The services and resources for Wholeness and Healing, Marriage, and Funerals are contained in this volume.
Common Worship: Initiation Services (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off)

This volume contains the Baptism and Confirmation services together with related material. (The printed version is an interim publication, but with the exception of minor amendments to the Baptism service, the services are in their final form.) In 2005 it will be republished in a volume uniform with the other publications.
Common Worship: Daily Prayer (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/20638) (final edition)

This volume contains orders of service for morning, evening and night prayer for each day of the week, and each season of the Church's year. There is also a wealth of seasonal variants, collects, psalms and other devotional materials.
Common Worship: Collects and Post Communions (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/20875)

This volume contains all of the Common Worship Collects and Post Communions, including the Additional Collects authorized in 2004
New Patterns for Worship (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/20603)

This volume contains guidance on planning worship, resources for use on a variety of occasions and sample services.
The contents of these volumes are available in a variety of editions and formats. For details, look at the range of official products (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/).


The Weekday Lectionary is only available in worked-out form in the annual Common Worship Lectionary (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_off/20212.html).

Further material to come

The remaining Common Worship material will be published as follows:

Common Worship: Times and Seasons (2006)
Common Worship: Festivals (2006)
Common Worship: Ordinal (2006)
Draft texts for the Times and Seasons and Festivals volumes are among the General Synod papers in the General Synod area of this web site (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/about/gensynod/agendas/).

Other authorized services

The Ordinal (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/texts/other/ordinal/ordinalfront.html) in The Alternative Service Book 1980, as amended, remains authorized for use until 31 December 2005.

The following are authorized for use indefinitely:

A Lectionary and Additional Collects for Holy Communion (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/texts/lect/bcp/lectfront.html) (Book of Common Prayer)
and Schedule of Variations to the Common Worship Second and Third Service Lectionaries.
Public Worship with Communion by Extension (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/texts/other/extension/extensionfront.html).
A full list of Authorized and Commended Services (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/introduction/listauth.html) and Versions of the Bible and of the Psalms (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/introduction/bible.html) is available for further reference.

More on Common Worship

Further information on Common Worship is available in a number of related publications (http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/resources/products_rel/). The following books also contain further information on Common Worship.

M. Perham, New Handbook of Pastoral Liturgy (http://www.chbookshop.co.uk/product.asp?id=14824), (SPCK, 2001)
P. Bradshaw (ed.), Companion to Common Worship (http://www.chbookshop.co.uk/product.asp?id=6782), vol.1 (SPCK, 2001)
M. Earey and G. Myers (eds), Common Worship Today (http://www.chbookshop.co.uk/) (HarperCollins, 2001)


To my knowledge, no. :confused:

[ebia]

Maybe in your parish, but that is not global Anglican teaching -- nor is that the teaching of the 1662 BCP which is STILL official in England.

Naomi, how about you get out and travel a bit to see other parishes in England and the UK -- parishes that aren't part of the "Church Society"?
A lot of parishes don't worry to much about confirming adults who have been baptised as adults elsewhere and then join the Anglican church. Even parishes relatively high up the candle. It's certainly not a "Church Society" extremist Evangelical position in England.

The 1662 praybook is still licenced for services, but some of it's teaching has been superceeded by other documents, so it is no longer useful as a guide to the official position of the CofE.

[Polycarp1]

In the CofE, the rule is that you have to be confirmed by (or by the authority of, I presume) a bishop. Those churches that don't have bishops but still do confirmations "don't count".

Check on this, assuming we're talking about recognition of confirmation in another denomination. Orthodox and Eastern Rite Catholic priests and ELCA pastors can confirm (chrismate in EO), but do it under the authority of their bishop. Their confirmations are valid.

American Methodists have bishops, but they are not in the Apostolic Succession (subject to a rather fringey argument we need not get into). It's the nomenclature used for their General Superintendents (the original and I think still official title for the clergy-in-charge-of-supervising-and-deploying-elders). And they do not confirm; your local pastor does. And those confirmations are not recognized as equivalent to ours.


For the record, ECUSA has ruled that the one requirement for communion is baptism, in formal language that recognizes it as "full entry into the household of faith" or something of the sort. Confirmation is encouraged of those prepared to make a mature confession of their faith, but is not a prerequisite to communion.

[svdbygrace]

Isn't confirming Adults who have been baptized as such, basically affirming the faith twice in the same time period? If the purpose of confirmation is to affirm/accept the faith taken on by our sponsors at baptism, then what about the adults/older children who have already taken on that faith (especially, coming from other traditions such as Baptist Churches)? Could someone please explain?

[Wigglesworth]

Isn't confirming Adults who have been baptized as such, basically affirming the faith twice in the same time period? If the purpose of confirmation is to affirm/accept the faith taken on by our sponsors at baptism, then what about the adults/older children who have already taken on that faith (especially, coming from other traditions such as Baptist Churches)? Could someone please explain?

The Sacrament of Confirmation is more than just an affirmation of someone's faith. It is a blessing by a bishop, an annointing for service as a soldier of Christ, and an episcopal consecration through the Holy Spirit's gifts of wisdom, understanding, knowledge, counsel, strength, Godliness, and fear of the Lord.

In my communion and some others, the bishop gives the person being confirmed a slap on the cheek to remind him that "he must be ready to suffer, even to die, for the faith of Christ." "By baptism we are made members of Christ's Church. By confirmation we are strengthened to live a Christian life within the Church and defend its truths." (A Catechism of the Polish National Catholic Church).

:crossrc:

[gitlance]

The Sacrament of Confirmation is more than just an affirmation of someone's faith. It is a blessing by a bishop, an annointing for service as a soldier of Christ, and an episcopal consecration through the Holy Spirit's gifts of wisdom, understanding, knowledge, counsel, strength, Godliness, and fear of the Lord.

In my communion and some others, the bishop gives the person being confirmed a slap on the cheek to remind him that "he must be ready to suffer, even to die, for the faith of Christ." "By baptism we are made members of Christ's Church. By confirmation we are strengthened to live a Christian life within the Church and defend its truths." (A Catechism of the Polish National Catholic Church).

:crossrc:

Unfortunately, many people have no clue what the Church believes now and has believed throughout time, so how can they defend her?

It's quite sad.

[svdbygrace]

The Sacrament of Confirmation is more than just an affirmation of someone's faith. It is a blessing by a bishop, an annointing for service as a soldier of Christ, and an episcopal consecration through the Holy Spirit's gifts of wisdom, understanding, knowledge, counsel, strength, Godliness, and fear of the Lord.

In my communion and some others, the bishop gives the person being confirmed a slap on the cheek to remind him that "he must be ready to suffer, even to die, for the faith of Christ." "By baptism we are made members of Christ's Church. By confirmation we are strengthened to live a Christian life within the Church and defend its truths." (A Catechism of the Polish National Catholic Church).

:crossrc:

Thanks for explaining... :thumbsup:

[karen freeinchristman]

In my communion and some others, the bishop gives the person being confirmed a slap on the cheek to remind him that "he must be ready to suffer, even to die, for the faith of Christ."
I think that is a great idea!

[gtsecc]

Oh yeah.
I am all for the slap, but not all Bishops do it anymore.

[DarthDigger]

I have not been baptized or Confirmed.

Until about 3-4 years ago my family and i were baptists. As you all probably know, baptists bapyize older people, not babies. So I've missed my Anglican baptism - so Im going to soon have my "baptist" baptism (believers baptism)

I will then look into getting confirmed

[Naomi4Christ]

Are you going for a dip, DD?

[DarthDigger]

Are you going for a dip, DD?

hehe,

afraid so!:cool: :thumbsup: :sorry:

[Naomi4Christ]

Superb!

[svdbygrace]

Superb!

:thumbsup: :) :) :amen:

[Mysterium_Fidei]

My grandparents are actually getting confirmed, along with myself and 7 other members of the Church. A nearby Mission will be combining their Confirmation with ours, so it will be 20 people that Sunday (being confirmed).

[DarthDigger]

Good luck in you and your grandparents confirmation, AnglicanCrusader

[karen freeinchristman]

My grandparents are actually getting confirmed, along with myself and 7 other members of the Church. A nearby Mission will be combining their Confirmation with ours, so it will be 20 people that Sunday (being confirmed).

Truly wonderful! :pray: