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Velo Princesse
31st October 2005, 10:14 PM
I already asked this in another thread, but it didn't get answered (atleast not directly) and the thread has died, I believe so I'm going to ask again....

There was a guy in the new comers class who was asking about if when his brother died he went to hell. Father Grist told him that we can't judge and to give it to God... all the right stuff. But the guy was basically in tears. It's obviously something that is a major concern and consuming him. Of course, I am not in any kind of position to council him at all but I was thinking that if I just gave him a link to a website w/ article re: Universal Salvation maybe he would find another school of thought to be a comfort to him. He knows of nothing but hell doctrine and I know, from personal experience, the effect that could have on his view of God and his closeness to him. I'm not convinced that I even believe in universal salvation, but the idea that the Bible does offer up some verses that seem to lean in that direction has allowed me to push hell out of my mind and just enjoy the love of Christ. Anyway, I was thinking of just handing him a piece of paper w/ the link on it and not saying anything about it. Just letting him know that I was thinking of him and his brother this week, praying for them, and that he might find those articles interesting. Maybe the idea of universal salvation will free him from this and allow him to grow. I know one of the big things that holds my mother back is how the hell doctrine effects her jewish mother. It's a hard thing for people to live w/ and I was thinking that maybe a quick look at that sight might lift his burdens a bit...

I don't know if I should though because I am new there and I don't want to make anyone angry w/ me. So, what do you think? This is a question of whether or not I should give him the link, not a theological question...

Randi

Velo Princesse
31st October 2005, 10:20 PM
I was thinking about you and your brother this week and I wanted to tell you that I have been praying for you, that God would give you comfort. I happened upon this website and, although I am not endorsing everything it says and definitely think you should continue to talk to Father Grist about it, I thought you might find the articles interesting.



http://www.christian-universalism.com (http://www.christian-universalism.com/)



Prayerfully,



Randi Smith

gtsecc
31st October 2005, 10:33 PM
The Bible makes it clear that one can only come to the Father through Christ.
That does not mean non-Christians don't go through Christ to the Father.

Jacob4Jesus
31st October 2005, 10:33 PM
I personally think it's fine whether you endorse it or not. You are presenting him with an alternative line of thinking. It's up to him to decide whether or not that line of thinking is for him.

Velo Princesse
31st October 2005, 11:18 PM
You don't think it would make the priest angry? He's nice, but I'm used to very legalistic churches and I'm not completely sure what to expect you know? I just don't want to step on any toes...

:)

Randi

Simon_Templar
1st November 2005, 04:47 AM
Well, there are a couple of different kinds of universalism in christianity. Only one of them can possibly work biblicaly, even though it is heterodox... the one on the website, however, is not just heterodox, it appears to actually be anti-orthodoxy, which I'd be careful of.

The only universalist position I've seen that could work is the belief that people do go to hell, but hell is not eternal, rather it is a place of temporary punnishment to lead people to repentance.. thus all people will eventually repent and be freed from hell. Even that is not entirely supportable.. but its the closest.

holyshe
1st November 2005, 08:17 AM
god bless you child i hope you do give it to him and i pray for him to find peace!
xxx

ContraMundum
1st November 2005, 10:16 AM
Personally, I would never, ever give someone a look into universalism, because to me (and the orthodox Christian faith) it is a heresy.

However, what you should do is advise the man to grieve "not as one without hope". Remind the man that no matter what, God is never unjust and willed that man to be with Him in paradise. God is always forgiving, absolutely just and most of all willing that none should perish so we can be sure that God would have done much for that man to meet Him.

We as mere mortals can never know the last moments in the heart and or mind of the dying. I for one believe that many standing on the edge of death will repent and regret their sins in those final moments, turning to the only name which they have heard that can save them from their sins, Jesus. As we all believe, therefore, God is faithful and just to forgive all who turn to Him in faith.

Pray.

Give the man sound advice.

God will take care of the rest according to His love and Divine will.

cathromang
1st November 2005, 10:22 AM
You don't think it would make the priest angry? He's nice, but I'm used to very legalistic churches and I'm not completely sure what to expect you know? I just don't want to step on any toes...

:)

Randi

Some of our work as Christians is stepping on toes. We are the salt...and salt stings some yes?
Give him the link and it can possibly as you said help him work out his grief.
I lost my little brother last year at the ripe old age of 30 - I understand exactly what's going on...

AngCath
1st November 2005, 11:51 AM
If you do anything 1)remind him of God's infinite love and 2) help him to start praying for his brother and for peace

gitlance
1st November 2005, 11:55 AM
Universalism is indeed a heresy of the faith.

HOWEVER: if will please you to know that according to orthodox Christianity, that person is neither in heaven nor hell at the moment. He is in the underworld, sheol, the realm of the dead. When the creeds mention Christ "descending to the dead," this is the place they are talking about.

All people will go there and await the resurrection. After the resurrection, there will be the judgment. Until then, we may pray for the dead, and request their own intercession.

Pray for the soul of this individual, for prayer doesn't cease to be efficacious when someone dies!!!

GlendaJoanne
1st November 2005, 12:05 PM
We as mere mortals can never know the last moments in the heart and or mind of the dying. I for one believe that many standing on the edge of death will repent and regret their sins in those final moments, turning to the only name which they have heard that can save them from their sins, Jesus. As we all believe, therefore, God is faithful and just to forgive all who turn to Him in faith.


This states well my thoughts on this subject as well..