Sheer curiosity...

[Velo Princesse]

I was reading in a pamphlet on ECUSA that to be a priest you need a post-graduation degree :confused: or something like that and to have been a Deacon. However, it doesn't say what you would have to do to be a Deacon... so, that's what I wanted to know... What would someone do if they wanted to become a Deacon?

Just so we're clear, I'm not asking for personal reasons. (just got a visual of me as a Deacon. LOL.) I just noticed that they were pretty specific about Priests but didn't even touch on step one to becoming a Priest, which is becoming a Deacon.

[gitlance]

I was reading in a pamphlet on ECUSA that to be a priest you need a post-graduation degree :confused: or something like that and to have been a Deacon. However, it doesn't say what you would have to do to be a Deacon... so, that's what I wanted to know... What would someone do if they wanted to become a Deacon?

Just so we're clear, I'm not asking for personal reasons. (just got a visual of me as a Deacon. LOL.) I just noticed that they were pretty specific about Priests but didn't even touch on step one to becoming a Priest, which is becoming a Deacon.

If someone feels called to be a priest (or any other ordained minister), he or she must first speak with his/her local parish priest. If the local parish priest and vestry discern that there is some level of genuineness in this person's alleged calling, that person will be recommended to the bishop. The bishop will speak with the person one-on-one, and then take further action. If the individual already has a bachelor's degree, then the bishop will turn the possible ordinand over to the discernment committee. Over a period of 6 months, the discernment committee (made up of clergy and laity) will decide whether or not the person is truly called to the ordained ministry. This is often a grueling process, whereby some people become frustrated at the committee and leave in exasperation.

If the discernment committee believe that the person is qualified and is truly called to the ministry, then that individual now becomes a candidate for Holy Orders. More tests, examinations, interviews, and the like are required, as well as an Anglican seminary education. If the candidate passes all of those requirements with flying colors, then he/she becomes a postulant -- being a postulant means that you are 99.99% guaranteed to be ordained. The first stage of ordination is that to the diaconate, where one must serve for at least 6 months before being ordained to the priesthood. As a deacon, you are at the disposal of your bishop, being sent wherever he/she has need of you. After the priesthood ordination, you will generally be sent to a parish and serve a curacy there while you possibly pursue other assignments within or without your own diocese.

It's a long process, but it's set up so that hopefully only "the best" will actually be ordained.

(I know, because I am going through this process currently.)

[Fish and Bread]

I think the original poster was inquiring about ordination to the permanent deaconate as opposed to the transitional deaconate one gets ordained to on the way towards priesthood. Permanent deacons are more rare in ECUSA than in the RCC, since in ECUSA priests can get married and thus fewer people see the reason to not "go all the way" and become priests than in the RCC (where many called to ministry also feel called to marriage, and being deacons is their only option). Still, though, they do exist!

Does anyone know what the educational and other requirements are to become a permanent deacon as opposed to a transitional deacon on the way towards priesthood? I'm just guessing, but I'd imagine that they might be lighter, since deacons often do not draw a salary and are only part-time employees (Usually also holding down a job in the secular realm).

John

[Velo Princesse]

I'm curious about both actually. (permanent and transitional)

Gitlance- What is your Bachelors in? Could you technically get a BS in Sociology or does it have to be a theology degree? If you were a permanent Deacon could you still become a Priest later?

:)

Randi

[AngCath]

If someone feels called to be a priest (or any other ordained minister), he or she must first speak with his/her local parish priest. If the local parish priest and vestry discern that there is some level of genuineness in this person's alleged calling, that person will be recommended to the bishop. The bishop will speak with the person one-on-one, and then take further action. If the individual already has a bachelor's degree, then the bishop will turn the possible ordinand over to the discernment committee. Over a period of 6 months, the discernment committee (made up of clergy and laity) will decide whether or not the person is truly called to the ordained ministry. This is often a grueling process, whereby some people become frustrated at the committee and leave in exasperation.

If the discernment committee believe that the person is qualified and is truly called to the ministry, then that individual now becomes a candidate for Holy Orders. More tests, examinations, interviews, and the like are required, as well as an Anglican seminary education. If the candidate passes all of those requirements with flying colors, then he/she becomes a postulant -- being a postulant means that you are 99.99% guaranteed to be ordained. The first stage of ordination is that to the diaconate, where one must serve for at least 6 months before being ordained to the priesthood. As a deacon, you are at the disposal of your bishop, being sent wherever he/she has need of you. After the priesthood ordination, you will generally be sent to a parish and serve a curacy there while you possibly pursue other assignments within or without your own diocese.

It's a long process, but it's set up so that hopefully only "the best" will actually be ordained.

(I know, because I am going through this process currently.)

looking back on the process I think it has been one of the best experiences in my life. i'm now a postulant applying for seminary... a relatively stress free stage in the process compared with some of the others.

If you would like all the information on Deacons in the ECUSA look in the Constitution & Canons Title III Canon 6 here: http://www.churchpublishing.org/general_convention/index.cfm?fuseaction=candc

[gitlance]

I'm curious about both actually. (permanent and transitional)

Gitlance- What is your Bachelors in? Could you technically get a BS in Sociology or does it have to be a theology degree? If you were a permanent Deacon could you still become a Priest later?

:)

Randi

I have not finished my bachelor's yet, but I am getting it in Theological Historical Studies with emphases in Church History and Philosophy.

You most certainly do not need a degree in theology to pursue the ministry, though I imagine it helps.

[cathromang]

I have not finished my bachelor's yet, but I am getting it in Theological Historical Studies with ephases in Church History and Philosophy.

oh man, too cool! :cool:

[TomUK]

The way it works in England (the only country that really matters ;) ) is that you need some undergraduate degree, but no postgraduate qualification is in any way required.

That degree can sort of be in anything you want, though naturally they may inquire as to how it fits in with your own spiritual path.

The typical training for theological college is 3 threes (full time). If your degree is in explicit theology then that will usually be 2 years. I'm not sure how that works if you're only studying part time.

[karen freeinchristman]

My batchelors degree is in Biology. I don't think it is a requirement in the C of E to have a degree prior to undertaking ordination training, but certainly one of the criteria that the selectors look for is whether a prospective ordination candidate has
"Quality of Mind":
"You should have the necessary intellectual capacity and quality of mind to undertake satisfactorily a course of theological study and to cope with the intellectual demands of ministry. You should demonstrate a desire and commitment to engage in theological study and a willingness to embark upon life-long ministerial and theological formation. You should exhibit a readiness to reflect and enquire."
Of course, things are probably not exactly the same in ECUSA. In any case, I think having a degree certainly does help.

[karen freeinchristman]

The typical training for theological college is 3 threes (full time). If your degree is in explicit theology then that will usually be 2 years. I'm not sure how that works if you're only studying part time.
I've been told it would be 3 years part-time. This includes lots of weekends, as well as weekday evenings.

[TomUK]

I've been told it would be 3 years part-time. This includes lots of weekends, as well as weekday evenings.

I've just checked it out and if you under 30 (ish) then it will be three years full time unless you have a degree in philosophy. However i don't believe most of those things are set in stone of the Church takes each candidate on an individual basis.

[Incubator]

Could someone post links to places where they are getting this information? Also, has anyone read The Close(I think that is the title)? It is a book about a lady going through an Episcopal seminary school.

[karen freeinchristman]

Could someone post links to places where they are getting this information? Also, has anyone read The Close(I think that is the title)? It is a book about a lady going through an Episcopal seminary school.

I imagine you are interested in the ECUSA details... Maybe someone could post sources, I am not up to scratch on the ECUSA.

For the English people on this forum, the C of E website
http://www.cofe.anglican.org/
is where I get a lot of information; also from meetings with our Diocesan Director of Ordinands.

[Finella]

I was reading in a pamphlet on ECUSA that to be a priest you need a post-graduation degree :confused: or something like that and to have been a Deacon. However, it doesn't say what you would have to do to be a Deacon... so, that's what I wanted to know... What would someone do if they wanted to become a Deacon?

Just so we're clear, I'm not asking for personal reasons. (just got a visual of me as a Deacon. LOL.) I just noticed that they were pretty specific about Priests but didn't even touch on step one to becoming a Priest, which is becoming a Deacon.
Hi, Duchess,

Those who wish to become permanent ("vocational") deacons undergo a training program developed by each diocese... here's the description from the diocese of NY:14. Aspirant begins the Diaconal Formation Program.
Aspirants for the diaconate complete a course of formation and study designed to provide academic preparation, theological reflection, and practical training in the ministry of the deacon.(from here. (http://www.dioceseny.org/index.cfm?Action=Programs.StepsTowardtheDiaconate&returnURL=index.cfm%3FAction%3DcontentAdmin.home))
They also have to take General Ordination Exams, just like priests in preparation for ordination do. I think the length of study varies, but it's not as long as a full-fledged Master's (most priests get an M.Div. in seminary)-- I once looked into the diaconate myself, and I seem to recall that it was year's worth of school.

The thing with the vocational diaconate, too, is that in this role as deacon, one is both of the world and of the church; therefore the idea is that deacons have a professional identity outside of the church and earn a living doing that profession and then also have an identity in the church. It's a bridge role. So I know deacons who are occupational therapists, psychologists, and audiologists!

[Velo Princesse]

The thing with the vocational diaconate, too, is that in this role as deacon, one is both of the world and of the church; therefore the idea is that deacons have a professional identity outside of the church and earn a living doing that profession and then also have an identity in the church. It's a bridge role. So I know deacons who are occupational therapists, psychologists, and audiologists!

If it's a vocation, does that mean that they are hired and get paid by the church? In other words, are they employees or volunteers?

Randi

[erin74]

wow - this is interesting. I ddin't realise all the differences.

In the Sydney diocese you had to have an undergraduate degree to get into theological college, or sit some exams. You then had to do 4 years in college (or 3 if you were over 30 when you began). Then, if you were accepted as an ordinand, you would be ordained as a deacon. After 2 years you would be made a priest (not sure of the language).

In the current diocese, as it is a rural diocese, there is a tendancy to ordain people to certain roles. For instance if there is an ongoing vacancy due to lack of finances then somebody might be ordained to work in that parish, especially to do communion. They would have to be a long term member, and recognised as a christian (not sure who by exactly). Preferably they will have done at least 1 year at bible college. This diocese are also happy to ordain those with just the 3 years at bible college, rather than 4.

[Finella]

If it's a vocation, does that mean that they are hired and get paid by the church? In other words, are they employees or volunteers?

Randi
If I recall correctly (anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong) there's different kinds of positions for vocational deacons -- stipendiary and non-stipendiary. Some deacons get paid and some do not, probably depending on many factors including the financial state of the parish and the amount of work the deacon does for the parish (some deacons do a lot of ministry directly for the church, such as visiting the sick, while others do less and focus on their jobs outside of the church during the work week; some preach on Sundays, some do not), etc.

So, yes -- deacons can be either paid employees or volunteers.

[karen freeinchristman]

If I recall correctly (anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong) there's different kinds of positions for vocational deacons -- stipendiary and non-stipendiary. Some deacons get paid and some do not, probably depending on many factors including the financial state of the parish and the amount of work the deacon does for the parish (some deacons do a lot of ministry directly for the church, such as visiting the sick, while others do less and focus on their jobs outside of the church during the work week; some preach on Sundays, some do not), etc.

So, yes -- deacons can be either paid employees or volunteers.I think this is correct here in England.