Why should one evangelize?

[gtsecc]

What are the limits?
How much doctrine should one push?
How should one approach it?
How do Anglicans approach it differntly than Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestants?

[cathromang]

don't walk up and say "repent or die" - that kinda thing only works for someone like Jonah. However if you're currently covered in whale bile, go for it.
With teenagers don't start with how their music is evil or satanic...some of them may just say "cool" and walk away.
When going door to door, don't get the prettiest girl in the church to stand in front of the eyehole and then when the door is opened knock her into the bushes and start in on the person at the door. (This happened to me once..."I won't be fooled again"!)
...

[Thomas2618]

If you know the person, see if they can come to a service with you. I know that the Anglo-Catholic service would spur a lot of questions, which would help start talks about the Faith and a few of the basic aspects. Then you can continue with more involved aspects of it. As long as you are talking with someone above the age of 13 or so, they can handle everything you throw at them. Just give them time to chew it all up. The experience of visiting Mass is enough in itself to get the wheels turning.

[Wigglesworth]

Why should one evangelize?
It is commanded by the Lord in the Great Commission, and people are dying and going to Hell.
What are the limits?
How much doctrine should one push?
How should one approach it?

Start with prayer and follow the lead of the Holy Spirit with each individual.
How do Anglicans approach it differntly than Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestants?

Primarily, they offer food. :)

Consider this exchange, the substance of which I found in a charismatic Catholic book:

Q: Would you like to have peace and a deeper life?

A: Sure.

Q: Can I read this prayer to you from a card I happen to be carrying in my pocket?

A: Sure.

Q: Lord Jesus Christ, I accept you as my personal Savior. I am sorry for my sins and ask your forgiveness. I invite you to reign in my heart as Lord. I ask you to fill me and to baptize me in your Holy Spirit. I ask you to direct and govern my life and place me where you want me in your church and under your shepherds. Amen.

Would you join me in that prayer to ask Jesus to give you that peace and deeper life that you want?

A: Sure.

Prayer follows.

I actually had it printed on the back of my business cards.

[higgs2]

It is commanded by the Lord in the Great Commission, and people are dying and going to Hell.


Start with prayer and follow the lead of the Holy Spirit with each individual.


Primarily, they offer food. :)

Consider this exchange, the substance of which I found in a charismatic Catholic book:

Q: Would you like to have peace and a deeper life?

A: Sure.

Q: Can I read this prayer to you from a card I happen to be carrying in my pocket?

A: Sure.

Q: Lord Jesus Christ, I accept you as my personal Savior. I am sorry for my sins and ask your forgiveness. I invite you to reign in my heart as Lord. I ask you to fill me and to baptize me in your Holy Spirit. I ask you to direct and govern my life and place me where you want me in your church and under your shepherds. Amen.

Would you join me in that prayer to ask Jesus to give you that peace and deeper life that you want?

A: Sure.

Prayer follows.

I actually had it printed on the back of my business cards.


Did you use it much?

[Naomi4Christ]

We do it because Jesus told us to do it.

Our duty as front-line Christians is to live out a Christian life for them to witness - life not lips - and to not be embarrassed about our Christian faith.

Often that means spending time with people and taking an interest in what they have to say and being concerned with their feelings. They will soon notice that you treat them differently from other people they meet. It also means inviting them into our Christian world and show them that we are normal, interesting people who do fun and exciting things.

We have to be ready to respond to any stirring of the Holy Spirit in them - answer their questions, invite them to church, or other events - but to be sensitive and only to move at their pace.

We have to pray for them.

I would stay well away from church doctrine.

[Fish and Bread]

Consider this exchange, the substance of which I found in a charismatic Catholic book:

Q: Would you like to have peace and a deeper life?

A: Sure.

Q: Can I read this prayer to you from a card I happen to be carrying in my pocket?

A: Sure.

Q: Lord Jesus Christ, I accept you as my personal Savior. I am sorry for my sins and ask your forgiveness. I invite you to reign in my heart as Lord. I ask you to fill me and to baptize me in your Holy Spirit. I ask you to direct and govern my life and place me where you want me in your church and under your shepherds. Amen.

Would you join me in that prayer to ask Jesus to give you that peace and deeper life that you want?

A: Sure.

Prayer follows.

I actually had it printed on the back of my business cards.

This actually works with random people on the streets? When I was an agnostic, I would have turned and ran away as fast as my legs would carry me if someone had tried that approach! :) There's a little bit too quick of a leap from "Hey, how's it going?" to "Will you commit to being baptised and joining my religion?". ;)

John

[Naomi4Christ]

This actually works with random people on the streets? When I was an agnostic, I would have turned and ran away as fast as my legs would carry me if someone had tried that approach! :) There's a little bit too quick of a leap from "Hey, how's it going?" to "Will you commit to being baptised and joining my religion?". ;)

John

We have a similar prayer that we use with people in church who want to make a committment. And we have it printed :)

[Mysterium_Fidei]

Well, to spread the Good News, of course! The Lord has died for the sins of the world, through dying he destroyed death -- and he redeemed his Creation. Now, risen, he reigns with the Father over All Things. We wait with hope for the day of his coming.

[gitlance]

I would stay well away from church doctrine.

I don't understand! The Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses do nothing but talk about doctrine with potential converts, and they are now the fastest-growing religion in America. Precisely the reason people aren't coming to church anymore is because the want doctrine! They want more than a "show" to keep them entertained. Cheap spiritually doesn't sit well with a lot of people in this generation, and so they are turning to deeper and more "profound" spiritual venues -- sadly, these happen to not be Christianity most of the time, because it seems that the vast majority of Christians haven't a clue as to what they believe.

[gtsecc]

Ditto what Lance said.
I want doctrine.
I have a friend who recently left her low Church Anglican parish and joined the EO, soley because they offered her doctrine and a more formal liturgy.

[Naomi4Christ]

I don't understand! The Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses do nothing but talk about doctrine with potential converts, and they are now the fastest-growing religion in America.

I don't think this is a fair test. Mormons and JWs work many times harder than Christians at evangelising, with their door-knocking ministry. If we worked as hard as them, our efforts would bear much fruit. They also have a lot more children than most Christian families, even more than me, and that has a lot to do with church growth. I have read that there is sometimes a culture of control and fear and false promises.

Precisely the reason people aren't coming to church anymore is because the want doctrine! They want more than a "show" to keep them entertained. What research are you privy to that says a lack of doctrine is the reason people aren't coming to church? What do you even mean by lack of doctrine (or even an abundance of doctrine)? Why do you assume that growing churches are lacking in doctrine?

Cheap spiritually doesn't sit well with a lot of people in this generation, and so they are turning to deeper and more "profound" spiritual venues -- sadly, these happen to not be Christianity most of the time, because it seems that the vast majority of Christians haven't a clue as to what they believe.

Who said anything about cheap spirituality (easy-believism is the more PC term, I believe)? Newcomers are fed the same diet as the rest of us.

You can't stop people on the street and thrust a leaflet their way, chanting something about 'our church has bishops, our church has bishops', and expect them to 'come and see'.

[karen freeinchristman]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dogsbody again."

I agree with that last post!

[Naomi4Christ]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dogsbody again."


Snap! (for the women priest thread)

[SirTimothy]

Mormons and JWs work many times harder than Christians at evangelising, with their door-knocking ministry. If we worked as hard as them, our efforts would bear much fruit.

My continual question is... "When we've got free eternal LIFE to share, why do we not put in more effort than them?"

Timothy

[karen freeinchristman]

My continual question is... "When we've got free eternal LIFE to share, why do we not put in more effort than them?"

Timothy
Yes, I also think that we are really not doing enough. We have got the best thing anyone could ever hope for on this earth, and we keep it to ourselves to much. :prayer: Lord, have mercy on us for our negligence and our weakness.

[Fish and Bread]

You can't stop people on the street and thrust a leaflet their way, chanting something about 'our church has bishops, our church has bishops', and expect them to 'come and see'.

LOL! Ladies and gentlemen, Anglo-Catholic evangelization. ;)

John

[Wigglesworth]

Did you use it much?

I actually just found it (the prayer above) this month and received the new cards last week, so, although I have handed some out, I haven't led anyone in that particular prayer. However, I have prayed with numerous people after they poured out their hearts about some problem and didn't know what to do about it.

Praying with someone is a great way to end that kind of conversation. Just take all those problems somebody puked into your lap and give them to Jesus. The person always feels better when they share their burden with you, and you help them give it to the Lord. I just did it yesterday with a guy.

This is not an approach I would recommend for street ministry or door knocking. It is a great approach for someone whom you have just had a real conversation with about their problems. You probably have those conversations with friends all the time - just turn it into a prayer meeting. It's the right thing to do and the best way to help.

:crossrc:

[ChessCastle]

I don't understand! The Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses do nothing but talk about doctrine with potential converts, and they are now the fastest-growing religion in America. Precisely the reason people aren't coming to church anymore is because the want doctrine! They want more than a "show" to keep them entertained. Cheap spiritually doesn't sit well with a lot of people in this generation, and so they are turning to deeper and more "profound" spiritual venues -- sadly, these happen to not be Christianity most of the time, because it seems that the vast majority of Christians haven't a clue as to what they believe.

This is what I was trying to get at in another thread. Why wouldn't people want to hear about doctrine, many non christians have bibles at home, and many have read them. It seems to me that people want to hear more than what they can read themselves. They want explanations, and guidance.

CC

[ChessCastle]

I don't think this is a fair test. Mormons and JWs work many times harder than Christians at evangelising, with their door-knocking ministry. If we worked as hard as them, our efforts would bear much fruit. They also have a lot more children than most Christian families, even more than me, and that has a lot to do with church growth. I have read that there is sometimes a culture of control and fear and false promises.

I don't know about mormons but the Jehovah's Witnesses are for the most part not very big on having large families. This is primarily because they believe Armageddon is coming any day now and many of them do not wish to raise children "in this system of things".




You can't stop people on the street and thrust a leaflet their way, chanting something about 'our church has bishops, our church has bishops', and expect them to 'come and see'.

Ok I'll admit this made me laugh. :)

There is a happy median between "thrusting bishop leaflets", and having a 'come eat cookies with us as we listen to music and entertain your kids...oh by the way jesus loves you' party.

CC

[cathromang]

oh, I have one more...


Don't go all "King James" on them with thees, thous, and whitherfore arts.
Some will either:
A) Think you have a speech impediment
or
B) Think you're inviting them to a Renaissance Festival.

Use today's language...

[gitlance]

True evangelism has NOTHING to do with going around and giving people tracks or "telling them about Jesus". It has EVERYTHING to do with living your life in such a ways that THEY will come to YOU and ask YOU about things. And then, by virtue of you living out a good life in honor of Christ, you will perhaps be able to talk to them about the Faith.

I have seen far more people come to the Church because of Catholics leading good lives, then by anybody throwing leaflets at people asking if they are saved. Do you realize that almost once a month somebody walks up to me on the street and thrusts one of those darned things into my hands? They could at least have the common decency to ask me if I would be interested. People don't want that kind of cheap get-out-of-hell free card. That is a perversion of God's grace.

NOT TO MENTION that this whole "if you died tonight would you be in heaven" thing has no bearing in orthodoxy! Aside from our Blessed ever-Virgin Mother and perhaps a handful of others (Elijah and Enoch), no one is in heaven yet! And no one is in hell either! They are all waiting, and salvation does not end at our physical deaths.

[chrispykreme]

What are the limits?

There aren't any...

How much doctrine should one push?
As much as you can....just joking. But seriously, if you don't tell them, who will? Your job is to give them the gospel, get them saved, and then to disciple them and bring them into the body. The most important part though is getting them saved to begin with.

How should one approach it?

My church has a very active "soul-winning" ministry. All of the college students have an outreach that they are involved in every Saturday morning, and my friends and I go out every saturday night to preach the gospel at Johns Hopkins University or Silver Spring near DC.

We basically just either go door to door(I know it sounds like we're pushing it, but people are getting saved and going to heaven, and there's no arguing with that!), or we just talk to people on the street.

One approach is asking them for a moment of their time and then talking about heaven with them, or what do they know about eternal security or a relationship with Christ?

GOD BLESS YOU SOUL-WINNERS! :thumbsup:

[chrispykreme]

True evangelism has NOTHING to do with going around and giving people tracks or "telling them about Jesus". It has EVERYTHING to do with living your life in such a ways that THEY will come to YOU and ask YOU about things. And then, by virtue of you living out a good life in honor of Christ, you will perhaps be able to talk to them about the Faith.

I have seen far more people come to the Church because of Catholics leading good lives, then by anybody throwing leaflets at people asking if they are saved. Do you realize that almost once a month somebody walks up to me on the street and thrusts one of those darned things into my hands? They could at least have the common decency to ask me if I would be interested. People don't want that kind of cheap get-out-of-hell free card. That is a perversion of God's grace.

NOT TO MENTION that this whole "if you died tonight would you be in heaven" thing has no bearing in orthodoxy! Aside from our Blessed ever-Virgin Mother and perhaps a handful of others (Elijah and Enoch), no one is in heaven yet! And no one is in hell either! They are all waiting, and salvation does not end at our physical deaths.

Haha...mmmm. You should maybe read the bible. Like maybe Mark. Or any of the gospels. Or anything in the bible before you try to make an argument like that.

[cathromang]

True evangelism has NOTHING to do with going around and giving people tracks or "telling them about Jesus". It has EVERYTHING to do with living your life in such a ways that THEY will come to YOU and ask YOU about things. And then, by virtue of you living out a good life in honor of Christ, you will perhaps be able to talk to them about the Faith.

I have seen far more people come to the Church because of Catholics leading good lives, then by anybody throwing leaflets at people asking if they are saved. Do you realize that almost once a month somebody walks up to me on the street and thrusts one of those darned things into my hands? They could at least have the common decency to ask me if I would be interested. People don't want that kind of cheap get-out-of-hell free card. That is a perversion of God's grace.

NOT TO MENTION that this whole "if you died tonight would you be in heaven" thing has no bearing in orthodoxy! Aside from our Blessed ever-Virgin Mother and perhaps a handful of others (Elijah and Enoch), no one is in heaven yet! And no one is in hell either! They are all waiting, and salvation does not end at our physical deaths.

I agree with this however "evangelism" today is seen as tracts and "if you died tonight" things and the meaning of showing them through your life and works doesn't seem to hold much weight anymore.
The street and door to door "witnessing" is something I grew up in, in a protestant church where it's very big. I get people at my door from the local protestant churches about once/twice a month. (I'm putting out a sign that says, "I'm Anglican, when you can tell me what that is, we'll talk".)
I remember once when I was a young teenager I went with a deacon of my church out "witnessing". We stopped at one young woman's home that had three kids and worked two jobs, one of them as a barmaid at night. Deacon told her she was more than welcome to come to church, just as soon as she quit working in a bar. (I remember telling my father, and he and the deacon had quite the chat out in back of the church!)

[karen freeinchristman]

Haha...mmmm. You should maybe read the bible. Like maybe Mark. Or any of the gospels. Or anything in the bible before you try to make an argument like that.
It is so nice to hear fresh voices around here sometimes!

(can't find the right kind of smiley for this one!)

[karen freeinchristman]

I do think gitlance is partly right, though. Mainly it is to do with the integrity with which we Christians live our lives. But a good bit of honest doctrine is also required on occasion. Depends on the circumstances, doesn't it?

[chrispykreme]

I do think gitlance is partly right, though. Mainly it is to do with the integrity with which we Christians live our lives. But a good bit of honest doctrine is also required on occasion. Depends on the circumstances, doesn't it?

I agree that a good part of our ministry depends on us living by our convictions and the word of God...BUT Christ also commanded the disciples, and us, to go out and make more disciples, to preach the gospel to EVERYONE. So they did it, and they didn't sit around saying "Well, I know we're supposed to tell everyone about God, but...I dunno, let's just sit around and see if we can bring the people we already know to Christ first. Those other people out there DYING AND GOING TO HELL can wait."

I wish that more Christians would see the need for Christ in the world everywhere. If you truly believed in hell, there would be nothing stopping you from telling people about God instead of letting them die without knowing.

[gtsecc]

I need to get those Get out of Hell Free cards printed up.

[cathromang]

Haha...mmmm. You should maybe read the bible. Like maybe Mark. Or any of the gospels. Or anything in the bible before you try to make an argument like that.

wow ok, let's talk about the Bible.
Where is "spiritual delegated authority" mentioned?
Let's talk about pastors who claim to have "the apostleship of Paul" bestowed
upon them directly from God.

Let's talk about evangelizing people for oh...about $6 million dollars illegally.

[gtsecc]

I wish that more Christians would see the need for Christ in the world everywhere. If you truly believed in hell, there would be nothing stopping you from telling people about God instead of letting them die without knowing.
Are there Christians who don't see the need for Christ everywhere?
Do they have a BCP?
Who did their Catechism?
Was he defrocked?

[chrispykreme]

wow ok, let's talk about the Bible.
Where is "spiritual delegated authority" mentioned?
Let's talk about pastors who claim to have "the apostleship of Paul" bestowed
upon them directly from God.

Let's talk about evangelizing people for oh...about $6 million dollars illegally.

what are you even talking about? the issue is bringing people to Christ

[chrispykreme]

Are there Christians who don't see the need for Christ everywhere?
Do they have a BCP?
Who did their Catechism?
Was he defrocked?

Yes, there are a very very VERY large number of those Christians. If you walk outside and open your eyes to it, you might notice.

[Naomi4Christ]

The street and door to door "witnessing" is something I grew up in, in a protestant church where it's very big. I get people at my door from the local protestant churches about once/twice a month. (I'm putting out a sign that says, "I'm Anglican, when you can tell me what that is, we'll talk".)


Better you than me, mate!

I admire your passion, though. :)

[gtsecc]

what are you even talking about? the issue is bringing people to Christ
Are you bringing people to your parish tonight for the All Saints Mass?
I am bringing a family and 2 friends to my parish tonight.

[cathromang]

what are you even talking about? the issue is bringing people to Christ

You came in and asked one of ours if he ever read the bible because he had a different opinion than you?
Disrespectful - don't go to someone else's house and do that - you won't win anyone that way. Always show respect for those who don't agree with you -
THAT'S #1 IN EVANGELISM

So I went to your house and had a look around...

[Naomi4Christ]

Are you bringing people to your parish tonight for the All Saints Mass?
I am bringing a family and 2 friends to my parish tonight.

Gosh, we aren't having one of those. No mass, no observance of Les Toussaints.

[chrispykreme]

Are you bringing people to your parish tonight for the All Saints Mass?
I am bringing a family and 2 friends to my parish tonight.

Uh huh, and what did I say? bringing people to CHRIST, not mass...

[Naomi4Christ]

Uh huh, and what did I say? bringing people to CHRIST, not mass...

Indeed.

[karen freeinchristman]

Oh, dear.... :sigh:

[cathromang]

Better you than me, mate!

I admire your passion, though. :)

thanks I've been told I'm just full of passion...

or something warm like that... :)

[Naomi4Christ]

thanks I've been told I'm just full of passion...

or something warm like that... :)
:D :D :cool:

I was meant to quote ChrispyKreme! :o :o :doh:


Door to door ministries - takes a braver person than me

[marciebaby]

We used to go door to door in college. I can't recall ever leading anyone to Christ that way, but the girl I went with was so pushy that I'm pretty sure she managed to turn everyone completely off to Christianity. But I have had luck getting to know my neighbors, having them over for dinner, offering to pray for them if they're having hard times.

I read a book called "The Kindness Conspiracy." It was written by a pastor who utilized servant evangelism. The church will go out and wash cars for free or pass out lemonade for free. When people ask why they're doing it, they just reply "We just want to share God's love for you in a practical way." And that's all. I actually had a great time doing this on the streets of Norway in the freezing cold. It produced lots of great discussion, a the opportunity to pray for a lot of people. Did I mention it was freezing cold?

[Naomi4Christ]

We used to go door to door in college. I can't recall ever leading anyone to Christ that way, but the girl I went with was so pushy that I'm pretty sure she managed to turn everyone completely off to Christianity. But I have had luck getting to know my neighbors, having them over for dinner, offering to pray for them if they're having hard times.

One of my friends felt that his calling was a door knocking ministry and he did this faithfully, once a week, for about 4 years. I remember chatting with him about it a while back, and he said that he got one person to come to church in that time. Meanwhile, he had been threatened etc. on almost every outing.

In fairness, I think it can be a useful ministry if you can reach people who used to come to church and have fallen away for whatever reason. It may be enough to pique their interest and for them to come back for a visit. The local Roman Catholic church has a drive every couple of years like this, simply asking if there are any Catholics in the house - nothing threatening.



I read a book called "The Kindness Conspiracy." It was written by a pastor who utilized servant evangelism. The church will go out and wash cars for free or pass out lemonade for free. When people ask why they're doing it, they just reply "We just want to share God's love for you in a practical way." And that's all. I actually had a great time doing this on the streets of Norway in the freezing cold. It produced lots of great discussion, a the opportunity to pray for a lot of people. Did I mention it was freezing cold?

The Vineyard movement is very much behind servant evangelism. I think it is a good thing, and I don't see it being something that Anglicans can't or shouldn't do. In fact, we have a duty to compete with them if we feel that our doctrine is 'superior' in some way (I hate to use that word, but what I mean is less fluffy, less easy-believism). We certainly put a lot of effort in our church to social outreach - mother & toddler group, parenting and marriage courses, keeping youth off the streets initiatives, coffee mornings for the elderly. All of them do lead to bums on pews (well, chairs in our case) - a few committed families per year.

[gtsecc]

So, don't bring people to church?
I invited Marciebaby to Church tonight,All Saints, yesterday.
Did I do something wrong? :help:

[gtsecc]

Good grief - I am so confused now.
If I can't take folks to Mass, can I give them a Book?
Compassion : A Reflection on the Christian Life Henri Nouwen is pretty good.

[gtsecc]

Uh huh, and what did I say? bringing people to CHRIST, not mass...
What exactly is the difference?

[Naomi4Christ]

So, don't bring people to church?

It really depends on where they are already.

I can't imagine taking anyone to a high church holy day service - but then I can't imagine going to one myself, to be fair.

I don't know about everyone else's churches, but we have certain Sundays where the presentation of the message is short and to the point, based around a famous gospel message. The service is one-hour max too. We have these coinciding with church festivals and school holidays. The biggies are Harvest, Advent, Christmas, Mothering Sunday, Easter, and Pentecost. I would be happy to bring people along to any of those services. If someone is further along in their Christian journey, then maybe I would feel comfortable inviting them to the first of a serious of bible readings. I wouldn't feel so comfortable plonking someone in the middle of a series.

[Naomi4Christ]

Good grief - I am so confused now.
If I can't take folks to Mass, can I give them a Book?
Compassion : A Reflection on the Christian Life Henri Nouwen is pretty good.

Surely there's more to your church than formal services? You could always invite your friends to other activities you have at your church that are less threatening.

[marciebaby]

So, don't bring people to church?
I invited Marciebaby to Church tonight,All Saints, yesterday.
Did I do something wrong? :help:

Yes, you did invite me to church tonight, but it doesn't count because it's the church I already attend. :P

I think if people already have a good understanding of Christianity, inviting them to church is one way to help bring them back into the "loop" and help restore them to a faith they may have walked away from.

I'm personally all for the "small group," I love churches that have a buffet of small groups to choose from that meet during the week. I think one way to help people walk closer to God is to meet regularly with a few (8 maximum) other Christians to pray together and study the bible. Otherwise you end up with a bunch of people who only come to church for the free doughnuts.

[gtsecc]

Surely there's more to your church than formal services? You could always invite your friends to other activities you have at your church that are less threatening.



I never really think of them as threatening.



I do find praise music painful.



If someone had invited me to a service with praise music, it would make me really really uncomfortable.



There was praise music last night at the Alpha course. I like the guy singing a lot. I like all the folks there. I love Jesus. Still, I sat there hoping it would not be too many songs. I thought about gouging my eardrums out with the plastic fork to make it stop. Anglican choral music is the finest in all of Christendom. But, you know what really helps me worship? – Chant. I think the chanting of the psalm at the beginning of the service will bring people to Christ like nothing else.



Likewise, many Bible studies I have been to are also terrible, and in a small group there is the fear of being called upon - unlike a service where you can remain anonymous.



I am a very caring person, except online, where I must seem possessed.

People trust me and know I care. Eventually, they ask my advise on a matter, and then I tell them what I have found that works for me. I think this is far more effective than the other sorts of evangelizing I have been victim to in my life.

[cathromang]

Evangelism and telling others about Christ is not something that has rules and regs concerning it - it's not a rote thing like the JWs and Mormons do.
Every experience in life, every action, every word has the hand of God somehow in it...use any and all of it to show His glory.
Different people can show God in different ways.
Washing cars is a great thing - to show that Christians care, especially in the freezing cold!
Inviting them to church is of course a great way also...even our stuffy high ones!
coffeehouse, carwashes, church itself - door to door.
Don't ever limit the ways to reach people...

[Naomi4Christ]

I think if people already have a good understanding of Christianity, inviting them to church is one way to help bring them back into the "loop" and help restore them to a faith they may have walked away from.


I agree, and this is a group of people that we should not ignore. We figured out for our church, that the 'used to come' was a huge group, and a relatively easy one to evangelise.

[Naomi4Christ]

Evangelism and telling others about Christ is not something that has rules and regs concerning it - it's not a rote thing like the JWs and Mormons do.
Every experience in life, every action, every word has the hand of God somehow in it...use any and all of it to show His glory.
Different people can show God in different ways.
Washing cars is a great thing - to show that Christians care, especially in the freezing cold!
Inviting them to church is of course a great way also...even our stuffy high ones!
coffeehouse, carwashes, church itself - door to door.
Don't ever limit the ways to reach people...

Oh dear, reputation spreading problem again...:)

[higgs2]

Surely there's more to your church than formal services? You could always invite your friends to other activities you have at your church that are less threatening.
I don't see why taking someone to church would be threatening! We baptised our daughter at the easter vigil and had several people attend would either didn't go to church or never had been to an Episcpoal service and they enjoyed it.

[higgs2]

Haha...mmmm. You should maybe read the bible. Like maybe Mark. Or any of the gospels. Or anything in the bible before you try to make an argument like that.
So what possessed you to come to this forum and make your debut by talking to people like this? Can't you find a less rude way to make your point?

[gtsecc]

So what possessed you to come to this forum and make your debut by talking to people like this? Can't you find a less rude way to make your point?
They come from a church that has a certainn doctrine of salvation drilld into their head, and they want to make sure we aren't going to Hell. It is probably a "Bible Only" church.

[Naomi4Christ]

There was praise music last night at the Alpha course.
Alpha Course???:o

[Naomi4Christ]

I don't see why taking someone to church would be threatening! We baptised our daughter at the easter vigil and had several people attend would either didn't go to church or never had been to an Episcpoal service and they enjoyed it.

Did they keep coming?

[gtsecc]

Alpha Course???:o
Are you surprised I go?

[Naomi4Christ]

Just a bit!

Live talks or Nicky?

[marciebaby]

I am a very caring person, except online, where I must seem possessed.

.

This is true. :)

[gtsecc]

The early Christians faced death and torture when they evangelized.



Likewise, as I am evangelizing, I face praise music and overhead projectors screens desecrating altars.



Here is a Bible based praise song, I actually like:



When I find myself in times of trouble, mother Mary comes to me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

And when the broken hearted people living in the world agree,
there will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is still a chance that they will see,
there will be an answer. let it be.

Let it be, let it be, .....

And when the night is cloudy, there is still a light, that shines on me,
shine until tomorrow, let it be.
I wake up to the sound of music, mother Mary comes to me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

Let it be, let it be, .....

[cathromang]

hmm...that is better than "My Sweet Lord" by George!

[Fish and Bread]

I like "Christ you know it ain't easy". :)

John

[Mysterium_Fidei]

The early Christians faced death and torture when they evangelized.



Likewise, as I am evangelizing, I face praise music and overhead projectors screens desecrating altars.



Here is a Bible based praise song, I actually like:



When I find myself in times of trouble, mother Mary comes to me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

And when the broken hearted people living in the world agree,
there will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is still a chance that they will see,
there will be an answer. let it be.

Let it be, let it be, .....

And when the night is cloudy, there is still a light, that shines on me,
shine until tomorrow, let it be.
I wake up to the sound of music, mother Mary comes to me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

Let it be, let it be, .....

ACTUALLY, the Mary in that song refers to the author's mother. However, he uses Biblical allusion. </beatles>

;)

[gitlance]

Uh huh, and what did I say? bringing people to CHRIST, not mass...

Christ and the Sacrifice of the Mass are one and the same............

[Thomas2618]

Christ and the Sacrifice of the Mass are one and the same............

That's right! And those who have never been to a Mass before will feel something special - I speak from experience. There are always going to be questions afterward, and you know what questions opens the door up for...

[Thomas2618]

Haha...mmmm. You should maybe read the bible. Like maybe Mark. Or any of the gospels. Or anything in the bible before you try to make an argument like that.

Isn't there a rule that is something about not arguing in a thread that is not in your denominational section of CF? Oh yeah...there is.
And by the way, I would venture to say that gitlance is more knowledgible in the bible than you are chrispykremem, but that is just a guess. Be very very careful when challenging him with an argument like that. Besides, it's that whole "Read the bible, for Hell is hot" idea that really turns people away. That makes people feel like you are trying to be superior to them, and I don't know about you, but I can't stand people who flout that they are better than me.

[Naomi4Christ]

Isn't there a rule that is something about not arguing in a thread that is not in your denominational section of CF? Oh yeah...there is.
And by the way, I would venture to say that gitlance is more knowledgible in the bible than you are chrispykremem, but that is just a guess. Be very very careful when challenging him with an argument like that. Besides, it's that whole "Read the bible, for Hell is hot" idea that really turns people away. That makes people feel like you are trying to be superior to them, and I don't know about you, but I can't stand people who flout that they are better than me.

Well, I hope there isn't a rule about arguing with Gitlance, as you imply here. If you looked at Chrispykreme's profile, you will see that she is "in seminary" - so there!

We have much to learn from our brothers and sisters in other faiths.

[erin74]

I think as far as evangelising goes. Be yourself. Play to your strengths, but try and go outside your comfort zone as well. Love the other person - obvious, but sometimes overlooked in evangelism.

I think living a godly life is great, and it is used as an example in the bible - specifically for wives of unbelieving husbands, but also of others. I do think though that we need to try and speak it as well.

I did a great course called "Everyday Evangelism" by Stephen Abbott. It's only 4 weeks. It was really helpful to look at how to make evangelism a part of your everyday interactions. Not pushing so much the doorknocking and stuff, but taking advantage of pre-existing relationships and taking them a step further. And looking at broadening your relationships to include more people who aren't christians.

I agree wiht the prayer thing. There is nothing more powerful to a non-christian when they are going through hardship than to be offered prayer. Sometimes they may think we have a special thing going on with God, which in a sense we do. Not that He doesn't hear the prayer of an unbeliever of course. But they may not know how to pray, or think they have the right to, so praying with someone can be a very powerful thing, that gives opportunities later too.

Also - remember not everyone is gifted in the same ways. So we can't really say that what doesn't work for us doesn't work for anyone. My dh has a way with complete strangers that brings about gospel conversations that I would never be able to do. I dunno how he does it - but he does. He used to come home an hour after going for milk across the road. He was sharing the gospel with a muslim using a arabic-english dictionary because they had very little english. Now for me, if someone isn't speaking the same language as me I would see that as a barrier to a gospel conversation, especially when purchasing groceries. Not him. But I am not him - I will not be able to do that, because that is not what I do. I am thankful for his gifts and abilities though.

[karen freeinchristman]

Nice post, Erin. :)

try and go outside your comfort zone.

:thumbsup:
I think this is important for us all.

[gtsecc]

ACTUALLY, the Mary in that song refers to the author's mother. However, he uses Biblical allusion. </beatles>

;)

All Christians have accepted Mary as their personal Mother. :clap:

[gitlance]

Well, I hope there isn't a rule about arguing with Gitlance, as you imply here. If you looked at Chrispykreme's profile, you will see that she is "in seminary" - so there!

We have much to learn from our brothers and sisters in other faiths.

Being in seminary doesn't mean anything, especially if that seminary is teaching false conceptions about the Bible and Christianity.

[gitlance]

All Christians have accepted Mary as their personal Mother. :clap:

I think I'll start going around asking people that: "Have you accepted Mary as your personal Mother?"

That'll get some real conversation going. Afterall, Mary always leads us to Her Son. :amen:

[cathromang]

Well, I hope there isn't a rule about arguing with Gitlance, as you imply here. If you looked at Chrispykreme's profile, you will see that she is "in seminary" - so there!

We have much to learn from our brothers and sisters in other faiths.


Some "seminaries" are no different than a liberal arts college.
And some other "faiths" may not be all they seem, with twisted heretical teachings underneath founded by one man with a "vision" and a pocket full of painkillers.
There are "outreach" programs that simply want to "reach out" into your pocket as I may have pointed out earlier in this thread.

and hey, I would argue with Gitlance - but he has yet to say anything I disagree with :)

[saami]

Uh huh, and what did I say? bringing people to CHRIST, not mass...

There seems to be a total lack of communication within Christianity here doesn't there? When one Christian does not understand that Christ is present in the Mass, that the Word made flesh is still among us, and the Scriptures are taught in their wholeness.

I have enjoyed this thread - and the OP question about Why we evanglize? I think that we do so because Jesus has saved everyone, and why must they wait until after death to discover this gift is waiting for them? Why not enjoy that assurance and peace now? Salvation is after all earned by Christ for us, not by our own actions (like giving up a barmaid job post #25 - what a story!)

[saami]

Yes, you did invite me to church tonight, but it doesn't count because it's the church I already attend. :P

I think if people already have a good understanding of Christianity, inviting them to church is one way to help bring them back into the "loop" and help restore them to a faith they may have walked away from.


Bring people who already believe , but are not active in the fellowship of a congregation or worship in a formal setting regualrly is not really evangelism since these are not new converts.

Which reminds me - how many Christians did Bill Bright, D. James Kennedy et al. "save" when they count millions brought to Christ? Don't they really mean "restored to some aspect of the institutional church?"

[gitlance]

Some "seminaries" are no different than a liberal arts college.
And some other "faiths" may not be all they seem, with twisted heretical teachings underneath founded by one man with a "vision" and a pocket full of painkillers.
There are "outreach" programs that simply want to "reach out" into your pocket as I may have pointed out earlier in this thread.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to cathromang again."

DARN IT! Third time this week!!!!!!!

[Naomi4Christ]

All Christians have accepted Mary as their personal Mother. :clap:

Really? How interesting...you know, I have never heard that before.

[svdbygrace]

Really? How interesting...you know, I have never heard that before.

:scratch: Ditto.

[karen freeinchristman]

Really? How interesting...you know, I have never heard that before.

I've only ever heard of it on this forum.

[svdbygrace]

I've only ever heard of it on this forum.

:thumbsup:

[gitlance]

"As in the natural life a child must have a father and a mother, so in the supernatural life of grace a true child of the Church must have God for his Father and Mary for his mother. If he prides himself on having God for his Father but does not give to Mary the tender affection of a true child, he is an impostor and his father is the devil."

--St. Louis de Montfort

[Fish and Bread]

"As in the natural life a child must have a father and a mother, so in the supernatural life of grace a true child of the Church must have God for his Father and Mary for his mother. If he prides himself on having God for his Father but does not give to Mary the tender affection of a true child, he is an impostor and his father is the devil."

--St. Louis de Montfort

"Why Fish and Bread isn't Roman Catholic, example #237". ;)

How can anyone say with a straight face that people who love God but don't pray to Mary for intercession are really Satan worshipers? To me, that's utterly ridiculous, to put it mildly. Were all the Old Testament patriarchs Satan worshipers? The idea that we need female "balance to the force" to counter God is a pagan one and has no place in orthodox Christianity. God is both our Mother and our Father. He's all we need.

Intercessory prayer to Mary is one thing, but what is quoted above goes way above and beyond that, in my view, and is simply not an accurate statement. I don't know how God will judge people who say things like that, but I do feel it's sinful to call followers of God Satan worshipers if you're not absolutely sure that they are.

John

[karen freeinchristman]

God is both our Mother and our Father. He's all we need.
:thumbsup:

God created us in his own image. Male and Female, he created us.

[gitlance]

"Why Fish and Bread isn't Roman Catholic, example #237". ;)

How can anyone say with a straight face that people who love God but don't pray to Mary for intercession are really Satan worshipers? To me, that's utterly ridiculous, to put it mildly. Were all the Old Testament patriarchs Satan worshipers? The idea that we need female "balance to the force" to counter God is a pagan one and has no place in orthodox Christianity. God is both our Mother and our Father. He's all we need.

Intercessory prayer to Mary is one thing, but what is quoted above goes way above and beyond that, in my view, and is simply not an accurate statement. I don't know how God will judge people who say things like that, but I do feel it's sinful to call followers of God Satan worshipers if you're not absolutely sure that they are.

John

Not saying I hold to his quote, but he makes an interesting point. We are to honor our Father AND Mother.

And St. Louis did not say anything about required intercessory prayer from/to Mary in the above statement.

Remember, "all generations WILL call me blessed".

[marciebaby]

I know there's lots of "motherly" references in scripture about God being a mother hen tending to his chicks, about giving birth to us.....

[gtsecc]

I know there's lots of "motherly" references in scripture about God being a mother hen tending to his chicks, about giving birth to us.....
Yes. That supports women as Priests.

However, Leviticus, wow, if you read that - oh man, it is so sexist, women wouldn't even be allowed in Church one week a month.

[marciebaby]

Ya, there are some areas of scripture I admit I don't really care for. Shhh! Don't tell anyone I said that...

Like the story of Jephthah sacrificing his daughter in Judges. What an awful story!!! That's a good argument that men should always keep their mouths shut. :P

[Fish and Bread]

Not saying I hold to his quote, but he makes an interesting point. We are to honor our Father AND Mother.

Honor thy mother and father is really more of an admonition about respecting and taking care of the elderly (At a time when older folks were intentionally left out in the desert to die by their families) than anything else. I don't think it really applies to this discussion.

And St. Louis did not say anything about required intercessory prayer from/to Mary in the above statement.

Remember, "all generations WILL call me blessed".

All generations have called Mary blessed. That doesn't mean they have to show her "the tender affections of a mother" or else they're Satan worshipers, though! St. Louis is way out in left field on this one. Quite frankly, many of the various people known as St. Louis throughout history have been out in left field on Marian issues. Didn't another St. Louis say that Jesus was subservient to Mary in all things? I find those sort of statements to be very disturbing, to be honest. I don't have a problem with Marian devotion in general, though, so long as it is kept in the proper perspective. :)

John

[gitlance]

Honor thy mother and father is really more of an admonition about respecting and taking care of the elderly (At a time when older folks were intentionally left out in the desert to die by their families) than anything else. I don't think it really applies to this discussion.



All generations have called Mary blessed. That doesn't mean they have to show her "the tender affections of a mother" or else they're Satan worshipers, though! St. Louis is way out in left field on this one. Quite frankly, many of the various people known as St. Louis throughout history have been out in left field on Marian issues. Didn't another St. Louis say that Jesus was subservient to Mary in all things? I find those sort of statements to be very disturbing, to be honest. I don't have a problem with Marian devotion in general, though, so long as it is kept in the proper perspective. :)

John

And I agree. We should honor and reverence Our Lady as the Mother that she is to us (Rev 12), but not necessarily to the extreme where we tell those who don't that they are going to hell.

They sure are missing out on the greatest Mom in history, though.

[karen freeinchristman]

Well, to bring the conversation closer to the thread topic,

Is it important to evangelize using non-churchy language?

(some of the posts on other topics make me wonder whether some people here are able to communicate using non-churchy language).

[svdbygrace]

"As in the natural life a child must have a father and a mother, so in the supernatural life of grace a true child of the Church must have God for his Father and Mary for his mother. If he prides himself on having God for his Father but does not give to Mary the tender affection of a true child, he is an impostor and his father is the devil."

--St. Louis de Montfort

Jesus said:

"Women, behold, he is your son."
"John, behold, she is your mother."

My name isn't John. Naomi's name isn't John. Karen's name isn't John. John's name is well John, but you get my point.

[svdbygrace]

"Why Fish and Bread isn't Roman Catholic, example #237". ;)

How can anyone say with a straight face that people who love God but don't pray to Mary for intercession are really Satan worshipers? To me, that's utterly ridiculous, to put it mildly. Were all the Old Testament patriarchs Satan worshipers? The idea that we need female "balance to the force" to counter God is a pagan one and has no place in orthodox Christianity. God is both our Mother and our Father. He's all we need.

Intercessory prayer to Mary is one thing, but what is quoted above goes way above and beyond that, in my view, and is simply not an accurate statement. I don't know how God will judge people who say things like that, but I do feel it's sinful to call followers of God Satan worshipers if you're not absolutely sure that they are.

John

:thumbsup: :amen: :amen: :thumbsup:

[svdbygrace]

Well, to bring the conversation closer to the thread topic,

Is it important to evangelize using non-churchy language?

(some of the posts on other topics make me wonder whether some people here are able to communicate using non-churchy language).

I do think this is important. :thumbsup:

[erin74]

Yes. That supports women as Priests.

However, Leviticus, wow, if you read that - oh man, it is so sexist, women wouldn't even be allowed in Church one week a month.

Did you just call God sexist????


Oh and I have read a lot of arguments about why women should be preists or preach, but that one takes the cake for the most bizarre ever!

It is an excellent supporting scripture for the fact that God is sufficiently mother and father for us. He does not need the aid of a human (well except Christ, but he is also God). He seemed to manage quite well til she came along.

[gtsecc]

Did you just call God sexist????

No.
I thought what I was saying was really clear, and I was trying to avoid a really blunt example.
In plain language, I said that I thought refusing a woman communion during her period was over the top; however, it is called for by Scripture.

Outside of the teaching of the Church, the Bible makes it pretty clear a woman shouldn't even go near an altar when she is unclean.

Fortunately, the undivided Church has relaxed things a bit - Anglicans, Roman Catholics, and Eastern orthodox allow women communion all 4 weeks a month! ( However, I think maybe ROCOR doesn't)

[erin74]

ummm.. that was an old testament ceremonial law..... no longer applicable....

[gtsecc]

ummm.. that was an old testament ceremonial law..... no longer applicable....
Keep going on that line of thinking, and you will have to conclude it is the Church which says it is not acceptable.

[erin74]

sorry - I don't follow you.

New testament, new covenant - this is a teaching that has not been restated in the nt, unlike others.

[gitlance]

Jesus said:

"Women, behold, he is your son."
"John, behold, she is your mother."

My name isn't John. Naomi's name isn't John. Karen's name isn't John. John's name is well John, but you get my point.

Incorrect. Can we please quote Scripture accurately?

And that is what the soldiers did. Meanwhile, standing near the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing beside her, he said to his mother, ‘Woman, here is your son.’ 27Then he said to the disciple, ‘Here is your mother.’ And from that hour the disciple took her into his own home.

I think we are each the "disciple whom [Jesus] loved".

[Thomas2618]

Praying for intercession to Mary certainly should not be required. However, there is a lot to be gained from it. Mary is there to help us. The only way that I can see that it wouldn't help to pray for intercession to Mary is if one tries it with a closed mind to it. That is not to say by any means that Mary gets a place about Jesus Christ. That is not what any of us are arguing for when we defend Mary. We are just trying show that Mary can be a real help if you ask it of her (and it's free - all it takes is just a minute amount of effort).
Also, recognizing her as our mother is correct in many meanings, but one is that we are all a part of the Body of Christ - we are adopted into His Body at Baptism - and therefore we are adopted by His earthly mother...

[karen freeinchristman]

We've gone off the thread topic again.

[Wigglesworth]

I need to get those Get out of Hell Free cards printed up.

I actually had some of those. They looked exactly like the "Chance" cards from Monopoly, but they were printed by a Baptist evangelist.

:)

[Thomas2618]

I need to get those Get out of Hell Free cards printed up.

Last year when I went on a Baptist choir tour to New Orleans to paint a house, my name tag was a Get out of Hell Free card on the back.

[live4grace]

... and we shouldn't keep it to ourselves. I think the most "natural" evangelism is the kind that's also the most effective. When you befriend someone, faith comes up in the conversation eventually. Usually, I find people asking questions that I can answer or even say "I don't know, I'll have to get back to you on that one".

Now there are some issues when we do evangelize:

1. Heaven and hell. Jesus solves problems, and everyone has problems, but of course the biggest problem (and the one that people don't want to think or talk about) is what happens when we die. This usually takes a while to arrive in discussion, but it does come and it's a place that I have found needs very careful treatment. I usually say repeatedly something to the effect of "I'm NOT the judge, but I know Him and how He judges." People have a hard time with the thought of departed loved ones who died without saving faith, but again we don't know if they are with the Lord or not.
2. Politics and corporate ethics. I work in a very liberal part of the country and the link between Christianity and politics has never been viewed more strongly nor Christians so stereotyped. When ethical issues like abortion or how one votes on various issues arise, it's important to stay on point - Jesus is the point. Generally one's politics change after conversion and DUE TO conversion.
3. Personal problems/counseling. It can get easy to get over one's head here. I'm a guy and talking to women about Christ can bring up issues that I really can't discuss. I generally steer conversation away from that stuff, telling the person to find someone else to talk to who's more qualified than I am. But this is more than cross-gender stuff. In prison ministry I've done it's quite common that inmates have been abused by one or both parents. That kind of thing is too heavy for many people to do anything other than pray (and pray for someone else to come on the scene).

What works worst is group confrontation, especially when the gospel and or people of faith are being maligned in public. One can and should defend the faith at times like that but I wouldn't call that evangelism.

Well, that's slightly more than my $.02, but you know, these are inflated times :D

Be blessed,

John

[Naomi4Christ]

Now there are some issues when we do evangelize: /snip



Agree with this. Although I am not an apologist, I do think it is useful to be prepared to answer questions on the most common objections to the Christian faith - suffering, other religions, sex before marriage, the New Age, homosexuality, science, and the Trinity.

[karen freeinchristman]

Agree with this. Although I am not an apologist, I do think it is useful to be prepared to answer questions on the most common objections to the Christian faith - suffering, other religions, sex before marriage, the New Age, homosexuality, science, and the Trinity.
Yes, I agree with live4grace, too.

Another thing that comes up often in my experience with people who are asking questions about faith is prayer. People have a hard time understanding prayer, how it works and why we do it (even Christians have a hard time with it, so it's not surprising that seekers or agnostics do too).

[gtsecc]

wrong thread

[live4grace]

Excellent point; prayer can be a cultural divide even within the Christian community. For unbelievers, the reaction is commensurate with faith. They either think it's a waste of time or presumptuous (why would God listen to YOU!?!). When I am sharing my faith over days and weeks, the praying I do generally is before talking.

:sorry:

-John

[karen freeinchristman]

When I am sharing my faith over days and weeks, the praying I do generally is before talking.

Yes, and I think this is really important to do. I have experienced the Holy Spirit giving me words to say to people when I have prayed for him to do so, in helping me say the right words to non-believers asking questions.

[karen freeinchristman]

more to do with the subject of prayer than evangelism...

In the gym this morning, it was announced over the loudspeakers for all first-aiders to go to the treadmills on the second level. I was in the ladies only room, which you can see the main area through glass windows, and I saw several gym employees rushing over to the treadmill section. I went out and began walking around the track, which goes all around the perimeter of the main second floor gym area, and past the treadmill section. I could see a man lying on the floor surrounded by the gym employees. He looked pale and a bit ashen, but the employees weren't panicking, they were just talking to him, keeping him calm. Second time around the track, and he was still lying down. I began to pray for him as I walked around a third time. When I passed him again, he got up and sat down in a chair that someone had brought, and was smiling, and his skin looked more pink! I thanked God for that, but I also felt a bit funny when I realised that sometimes in prayers, I have to fight the tendency to say to God that if he would only do such-and-such, then I'll really know he is real, and that he really answers prayers! It's as if I am looking for more signs to verify my faith and my commitment!
:scratch: I don't understand why I do that, when I've had many, many signs in my life that I would say 'prove' to me that God is there, and that God answers prayers. Why do we sometimes feel we need more signs? Am I alone in this?

[Naomi4Christ]

I began to pray for him as I walked around a third time. When I passed him again, he got up and sat down in a chair that someone had brought, and was smiling, and his skin looked more pink!

Thanks be to God! :)