God's will

[Forest]

The Lord is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." How can this verse be true, without free-will?

[A New Dawn]

The Lord is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." How can this verse be true, without free-will?
How is it true with free-will? :scratch:

[Forest]

The Lord is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." How can this verse be true, without free-will?

The Lord is "not willing that any should perish".

Some will perish, which is the opposite of the will of the Lord.

The only explanation for an event that is opposite the will of the Lord would be free-will.

If there is no free-will in humanity at all, then everything that happens would be the Lord's will and none would perish.

[PuritanLady]

The Lord is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." How can this verse be true, without free-will?
Loraine Boettner puts it well in "The Reformed Faith".


The Universalistic Passages



Probably the most plausible defense for Arminianism is found in the universalistic passages in Scripture. Three of the most quoted are: II Peter 3:9, "Not wishing [or, KJV, not willing] that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance"; I Tim. 2:4, [God our Savior] "who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth"; and I Tim. 2:5,6, "...Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all."

In regard to these verses we must keep in mind that, as we have said earlier, God is the absolute sovereign Ruler of heaven and earth, and we are never to think of Him as wishing or striving to do what He knows He will not do. For Him to do otherwise would be for Him to act foolishly. Since Scripture tells us that some men are going to be lost, II Peter 3:9 cannot mean that God is earnestly wishing or striving to save all individual men. For if it were His will that every individual of mankind should be saved, then not one soul could be lost. "For who hath resisted his will?" (Rom. 9:19).

These verses simply teach that God is benevolent, and that He does not delight in the sufferings of His creatures any more than a human father delights in the punishment that he sometimes must inflict upon his son. The word "will" is used in different senses in Scripture as in our everyday conversation. It is sometimes used in the sense of "desire" or "purpose." A righteous judge does not will (desire) that anyone should be hanged or sentenced to prison, yet he wills (pronounces sentence) that the guilty person shall be punished. In the same sense and for sufficient reasons a man may will to have a limb removed, or an eye taken out, even though he certainly does not desire it.

Arminians insist that in II Peter 3:9 the words "any" and "all" refer to all mankind without exception. But it is important first of all to see to whom those words were addressed. In the first verse of chapter 1, we find that the epistle is addressed not to mankind at large, but to Christians: "...to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us." And in a preceding verse (3:1), Peter had addressed those to whom he was writing as "beloved." And when we look at the verse as a whole, and not merely at the last half, we find that it is not primarily a salvation verse at all, but a second coming verse! It begins by saying that "The Lord is not slacking concerning his promise" [singular]. What promise? Verse 4 tells us: "the promise of his coming." The reference is to His second coming, when He will come for judgment, and the wicked will perish in the lake of fire. The verse has reference to a limited group. It says that the Lord is "long-suffering to us-ward," His elect, many of whom had not yet been regenerated, and who therefore had not yet come to repentance. Hence we may quite properly read verse 9 as follows: "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise as some count slackness, but is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any of us should perish, but that all of us should come to repentance."

In regard to I Tim. 2:4,6 "Who would have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth ... who gave himself a ransom for all," is used in various senses. Oftentimes it means, not all men without exception, but all men without distinction - Jews and Gentiles, bond and free, men and women, rich and poor. And in I Tim. 2:4-6 it clearly is used in that sense. Through many centuries the Jews had been, with few exceptions, the exclusive recipients of God's saving grace. They had become the most intensely nationalistic and intolerant people in the world. Instead of recognizing their position as that of God's representatives to all the people of the world, they had taken those blessings to themselves. Even the early Christians for a time were inclined to appropriate the mission of the Messiah only to themselves. The salvation of the Gentiles was a mystery that had not been known in other ages (Eph. 4:6; Col. 1:27). So rigid was the pharisaic exclusivism that the Gentiles were called unclean, common, sinners of the Gentiles, even dogs; and it was not lawful for a Jew to keep company with or have any deals with a Gentile (John 4:9, Acts 10:28, 11:3). After an orthodox Jew had been out in the marketplace where he had come in contact with Gentiles he was regarded as unclean (Mark 7:4). After Peter had preached to the Roman Centurion Cornelius and the others who were gathered at his house, he was severely taken to task by the Church in Jerusalem, and we can almost hear the gasp of wonder when, after Peter told them what had happened, they said, "Then to the Gentiles also hath God granted repentance to life" (Acts 22:15), that is, not to every individual in the world, but to Jews and Gentiles alike. Used in this sense the word "all" has no reference to individuals, but simply to mankind in general.

When it was said of John the Baptist that "There went out unto him all the country of Judea, and all they of Jerusalem; and they were baptized of him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins" (Mark 1:5), we know that not every individual did so respond. We read that after Peter and John had healed the lame man at the door of the temple, "all men glorified God for that which was done" (Acts 4:21). Jesus told his disciples that they would be "hated of all men" for His name's sake (Luke 21:17). And when Jesus said, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself" (John 12:32), He certainly did not mean that every individual of mankind would be so drawn. What He did mean was that Jews and Gentiles, men of all nations and races, would be drawn to Him. And that is what we see is actually happening.

In I Cor. 15:22 we read, "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be make alive." This verse is often quoted by Arminians to prove unlimited or universal atonement. This verse is from Paul's famous resurrection chapter, and the context makes it clear that he is not talking about life in this age, whether physical or spiritual, but about the resurrection life. Christ is the first to enter the resurrection life, then, when He comes, His people also enter into their resurrection life. And what Paul says is that at that time a glorious resurrection life will become a reality, not for all mankind, but for all those who are in Christ. And this point is illustrated by the well known fact that the race fell in Adam, who acted as its federal head and representative. What Paul says in effect this: "For as all born in Adam die, so also all born again in Christ shall be make alive." Verse 22, therefore, refers not to something past, nor to something present, but to something future; and it has no special bearing at all on the Calvinistic-Arminian controversy.

Two other verses that also are often quoted in defense of Arminianism are "Behold, I stand at the door, I will come in to him and will sup with him, and he with me" (Rev. 3:20); and "...he that will [KJV, whosoever will], let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22:17). This general invitation is extended to all men. It may be, and often is, the means that the Holy Spirit uses to arouse in certain individuals the desire for salvation as He puts forth His supernatural power to regenerate them. But these verses, taken by themselves, fail to take into consideration the truth that already has been stressed in this article, that fallen man is spiritually dead, and that as such he is as totally unable to respond to the invitation as are the fallen angels or demons. Fallen man is as dead spiritually as Lazarus was dead physically until Jesus cried with a loud voice, "Lazarus, come forth," and the Pharisee Nicodemus, "Except one be born anew [or, from above], he cannot see the kingdom of God"(John 3:3). And again, He said to the Pharisees, "why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word" (John 8:43). Apart from that divine assistance no one can hear the invitation or put forth the will to come to Christ.

The declaration that Christ died for "all" is made clearer by the song that the redeemed sing before the throne of the Lamb: "Thou wast slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation" (Rev. 5:9). Oftentimes the word "all" must be understood to mean all the elect, all His Church, all those whom the Father has given to the Son, as when Christ says, "All that which the Father giveth me shall come to me" (John 6:37), but not all men universally and every man individually. The redeemed host will be make up of men from all classes and conditions of life, of princes and peasants, of rich and poor, bond and free, male and female, Jews and Gentiles, men of all nations and races. That is the true universalism of Scripture.


(This booklet gives permission for anyone to use the material therein at liberty)

[A New Dawn]

The Lord is "not willing that any should perish".

Some will perish, which is the opposite of the will of the Lord.

The only explanation for an event that is opposite the will of the Lord would be free-will.

If there is no free-will in humanity at all, then everything that happens would be the Lord's will and none would perish.
But if man has free-will, then many will use that free-will to not choose God, and still His will will not be accomplished.

The only way to read that verse to mean that it is God's will that all be saved (which is different from Him not willing that any should perish) is to believe in universalism.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The word for "willing" in that verse is boulomai in the Greek.

Greek for 1014
boulomai {boo'-lom-ahee}

TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 1:629,108 middle voice of a primary verb
Part of Speech
v
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to will deliberately, have a purpose, be minded
2) of willing as an affection, to desire

So, "willing" means desire or to purposely cause. I agree with the verse in that God doesn't desire that any should perish, or purposely cause any to perish. I don't believe that it means He will save all.

[Forest]

Thank you for the information...

A few things I noted in the booklet you quoted...

I don't see how it is compelling that "all" only means the elect just because the letter is addressed to believers. All the letters in the Bible are addressed to believers. It wouldn't really make sense that there should be some letters in the Bible that were addressed to unbelievers. Note that the text of the bible had to be changed to more fully support the booklet's premise...by adding "us" in several places in the verse.

Hence we may quite properly read verse 9 as follows: "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise as some count slackness, but is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any of us should perish, but that all of us should come to repentance."

This next quote...why could it not be said that He desires humanity to have free will and that desire is greater than His desire to force everyone into heaven?...also, this quote has the implication that He wants people in hell, since He has the power to save all men if He chose to. Free-will has the implication that the choices a person makes could cause that person to end up in hell.

In regard to these verses we must keep in mind that, as we have said earlier, God is the absolute sovereign Ruler of heaven and earth, and we are never to think of Him as wishing or striving to do what He knows He will not do. For Him to do otherwise would be for Him to act foolishly. Since Scripture tells us that some men are going to be lost, II Peter 3:9 cannot mean that God is earnestly wishing or striving to save all individual men. For if it were His will that every individual of mankind should be saved, then not one soul could be lost. "For who hath resisted his will?" (Rom. 9:19).

I am not trying to disagreeable, but to understand...

answers appreciated.

[Forest]

But if man has free-will, then many will use that free-will to not choose God, and still His will will not be accomplished.

The only way to read that verse to mean that it is God's will that all be saved (which is different from Him not willing that any should perish) is to believe in universalism.

Or to believe that He does not force His will on people. (free-will) Why could it not be the case that free-will is more important to Him, than to force His will on people?

[A New Dawn]

Or to believe that He does not force His will on people. (free-will) Why could it not be the case that free-will is more important to Him, than to force His will on people?
You are asking two different questions. You are asking about God saving everyone (question 1), and you are asking about free-will vs. election/irresistable grace (question 2). What is the discussion you wish to have?

I am sooooo confused. :scratch:

[Forest]

You are asking two different questions. You are asking about God saving everyone (question 1), and you are asking about free-will vs. election/irresistable grace (question 2). What is the discussion you wish to have?

I am sooooo confused. :scratch:

Question 2

[A New Dawn]

Just so I know, are you familiar with the Doctrines of Grace (TULIP) and the doctrine of Arminianism?

[Forest]

Just so I know, are you familiar with the Doctrines of Grace (TULIP) and the doctrine of Arminianism?

Yes, but to discuss all of that would be a huge discussion...

I am really wondering about this question posted a couple of posts back...

"Why could it not be the case that free-will is more important to Him, than to force His will on people? (election)"

Is it possible to make this simple for me to understand?

[A New Dawn]

Yes, but to discuss all of that would be a huge discussion...

I am really wondering about this question posted a couple of posts back...

"Why could it not be the case that free-will is more important to Him, than to force His will on people? (election)"

Is it possible to make this simple for me to understand?
When Adam fell, mankind didn't just become sinners, their nature changed. Their whole nature is sinful. And a sinful man cannot possible choose God. They can only continue to choose that which is sinful.

A lot of it has to do with God's sovereignty. If we are talking about His will, then we cannot be talking about our will. If we choose God because that's what we want, we are not accomplishing God's will, we are accomplishing our own will, and that is a sin.

(hopefully someone else will jump in here soon :o )

Salvation is a gift from God. It is God's choice on whom to bestow it. None of us deserve it, and that God is willing to save any of us is a direct result of His mercy.

[JJB]

Since Adam and Eve people have perished without coming to faith. How about Cain and his lineage? They were not saved. The world before Noah was so wicked that God decided he would contend no longer with the evil. Is God unable to save all? That makes God less than omnipotent. Consider that it is not all people that he is waiting for, only those whom He calls.

2 Peter 3:9 was written to believers. The very first verse in 2 Peter 3 is:

1Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.

[ksen]

Yes, but to discuss all of that would be a huge discussion...

I am really wondering about this question posted a couple of posts back...

"Why could it not be the case that free-will is more important to Him, than to force His will on people? (election)"

Is it possible to make this simple for me to understand?

First you need to define "free-will" for the discussion to actually mean anything. When you say "free-will" what do you mean?

[BBAS 64]

The Lord is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." How can this verse be true, without free-will?

Good Day, Forest

How does "free-will" become part of the text, the text is clear..

2 Peter 3:1-10



2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

**Remember this is written to Believers**


2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

* believers- beloved,YE

2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

*Un regenerate man

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

*Unregenerate Man's Charge
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

* Unbelivers rewards for thier ungodly- ness


2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

*Believers
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

* Believers – Charge of the ungodly in verse #4 rebuffed


2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


*Reward for Believers



Forest, in verse 9 the “us-ward” and the “all”are pronoun form, so to which noun do they refer?

Peace to u,

Bill

[PuritanLady]

It is also important to note, that for God to truely give man free will in the manner you are speaking of causes several problems.

1) It takes away God's total Sovereignty and makes Him only partially Sovereign (which is not possible)

2) It means that Christ didn't actually secure salvation for anyone. That man takes part in his own salvation. This leads towards man doing some "work". But Scripture states that it is NOT of ourselves, lest any man should boast.

3) This would also make faith man's act instead of given of God. Scripture states that NO man seeks after God (Romans 3:10-11). That man's heart deviseth one way, but God directs his path.

[Forest]

Good Day, Forest

How does "free-will" become part of the text, the text is clear..





Forest, in verse 9 the “us-ward” and the “all”are pronoun form, so to which noun do they refer?

Peace to u,

Bill

Right the text is clear...

Why make "all" become "all the elect" or "all who this letter is written to?"

[Forest]

It is also important to note, that for God to truely give man free will in the manner you are speaking of causes several problems.

1) It takes away God's total Sovereignty and makes Him only partially Sovereign (which is not possible)

2) It means that Christ didn't actually secure salvation for anyone. That man takes part in his own salvation. This leads towards man doing some "work". But Scripture states that it is NOT of ourselves, lest any man should boast.

3) This would also make faith man's act instead of given of God. Scripture states that NO man seeks after God (Romans 3:10-11). That man's heart deviseth one way, but God directs his path.

1) If someone has the ability to make choices, how does that take away any Sovereignty from God? He is still sovern. A person can only make choices because He allows us to.

2) If God gives something to someone, why can they not have the free will to accept it or reject it? Accepting a gift given to us by God is not something to be boastful about, it is something to be thankful for.

3) Someone can choose to accept or not, something that God offers them as a gift, and it is still an undeserved gift given by God.

Also, how can somthing be a gift if the person receiving is forced to accept it?

Thank you.

[JJB]

Forest,

The answer lies in rules of language. Who or what is the noun that the pronouns are referencing?


Sorry to jump in BBAS.

[seekingpurity047]

I would consider this too: Everytime that the word "all" is with people or whatever, it usually concerns all as in "Both jew and gentile". Not all literally meaning every single person on the face of the earth.

God's will will always prevail over ours. If it did not, this would deny scripture (see Romans 9). Nobody can resist His will, for He is all-powerful, the Almighty God.

Blessings,
Randy

[Jon_]

The Lord is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." How can this verse be true, without free-will?
It is true for it refers to God's elect, which are they that the Lord is not willing should perish; therefore, he sent his Son Jesus Christ to die a sinner's death for our sake, for his love is so great for his children that he has by grace saved us through faith in Jesus Christ that his mighty name might be glorified forever and ever. Amen.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

[BBAS 64]

Right the text is clear...

Why make "all" become "all the elect" or "all who this letter is written to?"

Good Day, Forest

As the opening verse says:

2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:


First Peter opens:
1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


It was not written to "all", unless you define the use of all, please do so.... BTW all is never a noun.

You never answered the first question, please explain the pronoun forms in verse 9 in 2 Peter3.

Peace to u,

Bill

[CCWoody]

But if man has free-will, then many will use that free-will to not choose God, and still His will will not be accomplished.

My sister, if you haven't already discovered this for yourself, most Christians are more concerned that they have free will, i.e. the ability to thwart God's will and bring his counsel to nothing, than they are that God's will be done, even if they pray:

"Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come,
thy will be done...."

It is proof that Arminianism cannot be accomplished in prayer to God simply for the fact that we are taught to pray that His will be done, not laud that man's own will be done.

But, all of that aside, if this verse in 2 Peter is really to mean that God is not willing that any perish, meaning the whole human race without any exception, then how are we explain the fact that the Lord was unwilling to work miracles in the presence of some whom He knew would repent in the face of those miracles? (Matthe 11:21)

How are we to understand that the Lord spoke in parables so that people would not discern and understand so that they would NEVER turn and have their sins forgiven? (Mark 4:11-12)

It sure does seem as if 2 Peter really does mean that the Father is unwilling that any perish that the Son was actively working against the Father. Are we suppose that the Father and Son are at war with each other? Is this what the Trinity really means to Arminians?

[one4christ]

Some day When Jesus Christ Splits the Eastern skies, and comes to rapture his bride out of this world, the real truth will be at last known.

And won't a whole lot of folks who Thought they had the one, and only absolutely correct Biblically sound doctrine be surprised, and won't a whole lot of them same folks who Thought they were saved be weeping, and crying, and begging him to be merciful to them, just hearing him say, depart from me, I never knew you.

What's gonna really be special though is all the folks who them other folks Thought had no right, or chance to ever be saved standing there hearing Jesus say to them welcome you good and faithful servants, enter into the joy of the Lord.:clap:

[CCWoody]

Hi, PentecostalEvangelist, a.k.a. many names.

Poor fellow. You just can't stay away, can you?

[Forest]

My sister, if you haven't already discovered this for yourself, most Christians are more concerned that they have free will, i.e. the ability to thwart God's will and bring his counsel to nothing, than they are that God's will be done, even if they pray:

"Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come,
thy will be done...."

It is proof that Arminianism cannot be accomplished in prayer to God simply for the fact that we are taught to pray that His will be done, not laud that man's own will be done.

But, all of that aside, if this verse in 2 Peter is really to mean that God is not willing that any perish, meaning the whole human race without any exception, then how are we explain the fact that the Lord was unwilling to work miracles in the presence of some whom He knew would repent in the face of those miracles? (Matthe 11:21)

How are we to understand that the Lord spoke in parables so that people would not discern and understand so that they would NEVER turn and have their sins forgiven? (Mark 4:11-12)

It sure does seem as if 2 Peter really does mean that the Father is unwilling that any perish that the Son was actively working against the Father. Are we suppose that the Father and Son are at war with each other? Is this what the Trinity really means to Arminians?

Jesus prayed to the Father asking that His burden be removed, yet also acknowledged the Father's will, not His be done. Therefore, what is wrong in asking for something, and at the same time saying "if it be God's will?"

If I have free will, why does that thwart God's will if I acknowledge that I am only able to make choices because God allows me to and that in any case, however He desires it, it will be done His way?

Is "free-will" completely non-exisstent in the "Reformed view" or does it mean something else than is commonly understood?

[cygnusx1]

Jesus prayed to the Father asking that His burden be removed, yet also acknowledged the Father's will, not His be done. Therefore, what is wrong in asking for something, and at the same time saying "if it be God's will?"

If I have free will, why does that thwart God's will if I acknowledge that I am only able to make choices because God allows me to and that in any case, however He desires it, it will be done His way?

Is "free-will" completely non-exisstent in the "Reformed view" or does it mean something else than is commonly understood?


a better understanding ......... at least from the Reformed View would be , Free Agency .... not free-will .

we always will freely , without compulsion ........... no-one forces us to act outside our wills , yet God has devices for "making" us willing.

Total free-will would be the power to thwart not only Satan but God as well , this is how many think , but it finds no place in scripture.


Greetings Cygnus

[CCWoody]

Jesus prayed to the Father asking that His burden be removed, yet also acknowledged the Father's will, not His be done. Therefore, what is wrong in asking for something, and at the same time saying "if it be God's will?"

True, but that was not my point. The problem is that Arminianism teaches and believes that man can and does thwart God's will all the time. And, though it is kinda pathetic from the fact that man always gets his will, but that God almost never gets his, the Arminian still prays "Thy will be done." Why bother to even pray it when the Arminian knows that God's will is not done, but man's will? It simply demonstrates that an Arminian can't actually practice his theology. If that were the case, he would never bother to pray for something that God can't do, like force his will over man's will. As it is, according to Arminianism, it is simply empty words.

If I have free will, why does that thwart God's will if I acknowledge that I am only able to make choices because God allows me to and that in any case, however He desires it, it will be done His way?

Well, let's take salvation for instance. Arminians teach and believe that it is God's express will and desire to save everyone. Nevertheless, the fact is that the vast majority of our fellow man is perishing in their sins. Obviously, God's will is not done, but man's will. Jesus, after having paid the penalty for the entire human race, now gets to watch the seeds of his efforts one by one perish into everlasting flames. Man's free will thwarts God's will and plan for man.

Is "free-will" completely non-exisstent in the "Reformed view" or does it mean something else than is commonly understood?

That all depends on what you mean by free will. For most Arminians, yes, that type of free will we deny exists.

[oworm]

Hi, PentecostalEvangelist, a.k.a. many names.

Poor fellow. You just can't stay away, can you?

yEP ItS AlL iN THe sYnTaX iSNt iT?

[frumanchu]

Right the text is clear...

Why make "all" become "all the elect" or "all who this letter is written to?"

You were not necessarily correct when you stated earlier that all the epistles are written to believers. They are written to people who confess Christ. There is a difference.

In the case of 2 Peter 3:9, as was rightly pointed out already, the "all" refers back to the "us." In order for the Arminian "free will" usage of this verse to stand, the case would have to be made that the "us" refers to all mankind. The context of the verse does not support this at all.

The point of the passage is that the reason Christ has not yet come in judgement is that the full number of the elect have not yet come to repentance. If Christ were to come and judgement were to occur before that happened, then God would thwart His own purpose in election as there would be elect individuals who were never saved.

[Rolf Ernst]

ionThank you for the information...

A few things I noted in the booklet you quoted...

I don't see how it is compelling that "all" only means the elect just because the letter is addressed to believers. All the letters in the Bible are addressed to believers. It wouldn't really make sense that there should be some letters in the Bible that were addressed to unbelievers. Note that the text of the bible had to be changed to more fully support the booklet's premise...by adding "us" in several places in the verse.



This next quote...why could it not be said that He desires humanity to have free will and that desire is greater than His desire to force everyone into heaven?...also, this quote has the implication that He wants people in hell, since He has the power to save all men if He chose to. Free-will has the implication that the choices a person makes could cause that person to end up in hell.



I am not trying to disagreeable, but to understand...

answers appreciated. Forest, I don't understand how you can claim to believe the whole Bible. Example: the Bible says very clearly in many places that God works all things according to His own will. More than that, it says He works all things according to the "counsel" of His own will; "counsel" signifying that His will is in accord with the element of all His wisdom. That is, it is not His will according to what He has decided what to do or have done after consulting with men or angels about any matter. It is according to the "counsel" of "His own" will. Therfore you don't, you believe that. Instead of believing that, you rejoice in doctrine that denies it altogether. If you believed the Bible, you would say, God works "all" things after the counsel of "His" will. Therefore, if He wants someone to be saved, they will be saved, and if they are not saved, it will be because they were a vessel of wrath "fitted" for destruction. But you don't believe either one. You deny that everyone God wishes to be saved will be saved, and since you believe He wants everyone saved, you deny what the Bible says about some being vessels of wrath "fitted" for destruction.

If a hurricane or tornado kills 1000 people, you probably don't believe that was God's will, but a blind force of nature. Therefore, you don't believe the verse that says, "the bright cloud is turned round about by His counsel to do whatever He commands on the face of the whole earth." You don't really believe the verse that says, "Fire and hail, snow and vapor, stormy wind fulfilling His word." Do you? With your Arminian doctreine, you can't really believe that "whatsoever the Lord pleased, that did He in heaven and in earth; in the seas and all deep places." You can't believe that, because if an unsaved man dies in a tornado when he is 25, you can't believe that since God (you think) wanted him to be saved, the tornado could not have killed him according to God's will before he was saved. Therefore, you don't believe it when the Bible says, "stormy wind fulfilling His word."

[Forest]

ion Forest, I don't understand how you can claim to believe the whole Bible.

You start with this when I ask a question and expect me to take you seriously?

I don't think you even answered the question I was asking.

[BBAS 64]

Jesus prayed to the Father asking that His burden be removed, yet also acknowledged the Father's will, not His be done. Therefore, what is wrong in asking for something, and at the same time saying "if it be God's will?"

If I have free will, why does that thwart God's will if I acknowledge that I am only able to make choices because God allows me to and that in any case, however He desires it, it will be done His way?

Is "free-will" completely non-exisstent in the "Reformed view" or does it mean something else than is commonly understood?

Good day, Forest

Free will commonly understood??

The ability to choose between a various amounts choices that are presented to him in any given circumstance, and must always chose that which represents his strongest desire or inclination. Those are directly and by necessity affected by nature, affections, and predispositions.

Baker’s Theological dictionary:

Freedom of self determination and action independent of external causes.

Webster’s:

1. The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will.
2. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.

Spurgeon: On God’s will and man’s: http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0442.htm (http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0442.htm)
Pink: http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/etc/printer-friendly.asp?ID=255 (http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/etc/printer-friendly.asp?ID=255)

Seeing our will is constrained by external forces and causes we have no control over I really start to question how free it really is?

Peace to u,

Bill

[Rolf Ernst]

You start with this when I ask a question and expect me to take you seriously?

I don't think you even answered the question I was asking. I answered your question in the sense that you needed an answer. Why do I say that? Well, the things in my response were those things you need to examine yourself concerning before you begin critiquing and criticising the faith of other people. Why don't you closely consider my first response to you. Realize that I made some valid points about how the doctrine you seem to prefer contradicts the clear teachings of Scripture. Until you are willing to do that, I don't think you are teachable. So examine your tendency to accept some teachings which are blatantly contrary to other Scriptures. Proper reverence to Scripture involves, in part, an unwillingness to leave and accept a contradictory tension between Sciptures. Sooo, why don't you begin resolving those tensions between your ideas and Scripture by examining your acceptance of the idea that God's will is that each and every individual should be saved with the Scripture that says that God works all things after the counsel of His own will (Eph. 1:11). You see, you have made an assertion, saying God wants each and evey individual to be saved. And the Scripture has made an assertion: God works all things after the counsel of His own will. Both cannot be true. Either you are wrong in saying God wants each and everyone to be saved, or else the Bible is wrong when it says that God works all thnings after the counsel of His own will. Who is righgt? How do you relieve the tension between your doctrine and God's word. If you take Scripture seriously enough to want to relieve that tension, you are showing proper reverence for God's Word. If not, maybe you are just beating a drum.
Figure out how to resolve this one issue.

[Forest]

BBAS 64, thank you for your answer on free will...I think I agree with it.

Rolf Ernst...everyone else answered my questions...not you...you were only interested in making a personal attack...not even based on what I said but making up things you think I am thinking...I'm not here to "critique or criticize" Reformed doctrine as you accuse me of, but to understand it...I think my posts reflect that, Here is what I got from your first post...just attacks...

ion Forest, I don't understand how you can claim to believe the whole Bible.

Therfore you don't, you believe that.

But you don't believe either one.

......you probably don't believe that was God's will, but a blind force of nature.

Therefore, you don't believe the verse that says,...

You don't really believe the verse that says,......

you can't really believe that......

You can't believe that......

you can't believe that since God......

(you think)

Therefore, you don't believe it......

see a pattern?

Yes I do believe the Whole Bible...Rolf Ernst please be careful about assuming so much.

Exodus 20:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=20&verse=16&version=9&context=verse)
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Psalm 35:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=35&verse=11&version=9&context=verse)
False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge things that I knew not.

Proverbs 6:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=24&chapter=6&verse=19&version=9&context=verse)
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

[Rolf Ernst]

BBAS 64, thank you for your answer on free will...I think I agree with it.

Rolf Ernst...everyone else answered my questions...not you...you were only interested in making a personal attack...not even based on wha
















Yes I do believe the Whole Bible...Rolf Ernst please be careful about assuming so much.

Exodus 20:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=20&verse=16&version=9&context=verse)
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Psalm 35:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=35&verse=11&version=9&context=verse)
False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge things that I knew not.

Proverbs 6:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=24&chapter=6&verse=19&version=9&context=verse)
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. You are misrepresenting my posts. Why? You make accusations against me, but you find it convenient to cut up my post so the context of what I said is lost. The misapply the scriprture verses which you highlight in blue. Just because I responded to your first post in a way you didn't expect, you became belligerent. If you really wanted to understand Reformed doctrine, you would examine your contradictory asssumptions.

Again, you say you believe the whole Bible. Well good. Then explain how you believe both of the following: You say that God doesn't want any individual of mankind to perish, Yet you iknow that many do perish. Therefore, explain how you also believe that God "works all things after the counsel of His own will." Which is true? You know very well that there are many who perish, So if that is true, and you say that God works all things after the counsel of His own will, how are both true at the same time. This is not a personal attack. It is a question

[cygnusx1]

There is Variety in God's will ................ see Calvin on Ezekiel .

I think Fru has quoted it early on in this thread ............ ;)

*cygnus goes off and looks for his soap box ... * :D

[Forest]

There is Variety in God's will ................ see Calvin on Ezekiel .

I think Fru has quoted it early on in this thread ............ ;)

*cygnus goes off and looks for his soap box ... * :D

I didn't see the quote earlier...do you have one available?

Thanks.:)

[Forest]

Again, you say you believe the whole Bible. Well good. Then explain how you believe both of the following: You say that God doesn't want any individual of mankind to perish, Yet you iknow that many do perish. Therefore, explain how you also believe that God "works all things after the counsel of His own will." Which is true? You know very well that there are many who perish, So if that is true, and you say that God works all things after the counsel of His own will, how are both true at the same time. This is not a personal attack. It is a question

Those three can be true at the same time if God's will is to allow us to make some of our own choices.

I think the question you are asking about how all three can be true at the same time was what I was asking earlier...God does indeed "work(s) all things after the cousel of His own will...

"Why could it not be the case that free-will is more important to Him, than to force His will on people? (election)"

free-will not meaning we have the ability to thwart God's will, but only that God allows us to make some choices.

[Rolf Ernst]

Those three can be true at the same time if God's will is to allow us to make some of our own choices.

I think the question you are asking about how all three can be true at the same time was what I was asking earlier...God does indeed "work(s) all things after the cousel of His own will...

"Why could it not be the case that free-will is more important to Him, than to force His will on people? (election)"

free-will not meaning we have the ability to thwart God's will, but only that God allows us to make some choices.

If free will is more important than to force His will on people, as you say, how do you factor that in with "thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power" (Ps. 110:3) ? Also we have Jesus parable of the kingdom of heaven wherein the fishermen haulf fish in, throw some of them away, and keep others. That is a pretty good description, I thik of the way He works. Also--in John 6:44, Jesus uses the term draw as fishermen speak of drawing fish out of the water, and the verb draw is a verb of force that woujld be used in dragging.

Doesn't Ps 110:3 teach that there is a power exercised by God that is both prior to their willingness that is effective to make His people willing?

What about those verses wherein His people speak of their repentance as a work of God's power (in Lam. 5:21) and the work of God opening the heart of Lydia, the seller of purple so that she attended to the word preached?

[BBAS 64]

Those three can be true at the same time if God's will is to allow us to make some of our own choices.

I think the question you are asking about how all three can be true at the same time was what I was asking earlier...God does indeed "work(s) all things after the cousel of His own will...

"Why could it not be the case that free-will is more important to Him, than to force His will on people? (election)"

free-will not meaning we have the ability to thwart God's will, but only that God allows us to make some choices.

Good day, Forest

That is not election, you have failed to understand the Gospel thus misunderstood election.


Peace to u,

Bill

[cygnusx1]

I didn't see the quote earlier...do you have one available?

Thanks.:)

wrong thread ........... it was just below ........:sorry:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2272188-12-questions-for-calvinists.html

''I will say that God does in a manner reveal two wills in Scripture. For instance, He commands "thou shalt not kill (murder)" yet He also orders the Israelites to "utterly destroy" the men, women and children of nations.

John Piper as an excellent article (http://www.desiringgod.org/library/topics/doctrines_grace/2wills.html) speaking directly to the issues you bring up.'' frumanchu

[PentecostalPreacher]

Did God really love the whole world so much that he gave his only begotten son that whoseover believed in him should not persih but have everlasting life?

Apparently he didn't, that must have been one of those secret lies Jesus told that slipped into the New Testament by mistake!

If we accept election, as it is taught, as a sound Biblical doctrine, and if election is a sound Biblical doctrine, based on a rock solid foundation, of sound Biblical truth then we might as well rip out 80% of the New Testament, especially all those places where it says God's will is that all be saved...

[seekingpurity047]

Did God really love the whole world so much that he gave his only begotten son that whoseover believed in him should not persih but have everlasting life?

Apparently he didn't, that must have been one of those secret lies Jesus told that slipped into the New Testament by mistake!

If we accept election, as it is taught, as a sound Biblical doctrine, and if election is a sound Biblical doctrine, based on a rock solid foundation, of sound Biblical truth then we might as well rip out 80% of the New Testament, especially all those places where it says God's will is that all be saved...

If it is actually God's will that all be saved... then why isn't everyone saved? Does God's will NOT get accomplished or something? Well... then I guess we might as well rape God of His power, as it appears that man is more powerful than God (in your perspective).

Romans 9:19-24

19You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-- 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

Why would Paul even comtemplating asking the Romans if someone can possibly resist His will? Well.. Paul is clearly implying that NOBODY can resist His will. Not all are saved... and if it God's will that all be saved... then we have a serious issue here. Rape God of His power... that's the problem.

Now... let's go to the verses John 3:16-18

16"For God so loved the world,[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203:16-18;&version=47;#fen-ESV-26122a)] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Read v18 to get the full context. People aren't going to believe. And those people who aren't going to believe are ALREADY comdemned.... interesting use of words. But if there isn't an elect... then nobody can already be truly condemned... for NOBODY would be condemned already... God didn't send Jesus Christ to die for every single person on the face of the earth.

There times in two verses Jesus says "world". Now... is he talking about the same world every time? That's the core question. Answer, if you'd like.

Randy

[CoffeeSwirls]

I take this from a creation-fall-redemption viewpoint. God created all and it was very good. The fall has marred all of creation. God will redeem all of creation. Notice that not once did I mention any people. That is because not all people will be saved. There will be a new heaven and earth, but the justice of God will not be denied. Those outside the atonement will not be spared. But the world will be saved. We must lose a man-centered view of creation before we can rightly understand the fall and redemption.

It is easy to pluck a few verses from the NT and believe either in Universalism or Open Theism, but the Bible teaches neither of those heresies.

[PentecostalPreacher]

Let's try a little classroom project that will solve the entire problem, alright children.

Now we've already discussed John 3:16 many times but apparently you all think Jesus never said that, so we'll juts take our little black marker pens and mark through that vesre, that's right children mark through it, Jesus never said that, so it doesn't count.

And let's not forget to also mark through Romans 10:13, and 1st Timothy 2:1-5, and 2nd Peter 3:9.

And since we've determined we're going to mark out all the verses concering Gods integrity toi stand faithful to his covenant promises, we might as well just go right ahead and make the whole process as easy as possible, children, put down your little black markers.

Now then take your bibles in your hands, have you got them, alright then, ready, begin ripping out all the pages, that's right everyone of them children, rip them all out, go ahead, everyone, don't forget any, and to make the project an even better success, you might as well go ahead and burn every one of them, because if even one verse in your Bible isn't applicable, then none of them are applicable, and none of your doctrine is worth believing, and certainly not worth accepting.....


In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and rthe word was God....

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word shall never pass away......

Jesus Christ (THE WORD) the same yesterday, today, and forever.....

You can call Jesus a liar, you can call The Apostles writings a lie, I won't blasphem the son of God in that manner, and I will certainly not refer to the author of two thirds of the New testament as a deceiver.

When God said all he meant each and everyone, when The Apostle Paul said whosoever, he meant anyone, and everyone, anywhere and everywhere.

Me thinks you folks have been dubiously decieved by the theological blabberings of denominational baffoons who know absolutely nothing of the word of God, men and women with fat heads filled with secular head knowledge who have no heart knowledge of Jesus Christ whatsoever.

Let God be true, and every man a liar, let the word of God ever be established as Gods eternal unchanging truth and the deceptions of denominational deceivers be set aside, and forever be rejected as lies from the heart of satan.....

[Rolf Ernst]

John 3:16 does not say that He gave His only begotten Son that no one should perish, but that those who believe in Him should not perish.

[CoffeeSwirls]

Exactly.

[justinstout]

There is so much that the Lord has done in my life and so much that He has taught me that I couldn't even begin to summarize it all, but there are some things that stand out. As I see it, there are three keys to everything the Lord has done in my life, and I believe these three things are a must in every believer's life if he wants to succeed.

First, you must have a revelation of God's unconditional love and grace for you personally. This happened for me instantly on March 23, 1968. I was overwhelmed by God's love for me. Instantly, I intuitively knew God was good and He loved me separate from my performance. There was a severe conflict between my head and my heart for a number of years until I began to gain some understanding through the scriptures. But I experienced God's unconditional love for me in a tangible way and I couldn't or didn't want to get away from it.

Second, you must make an absolute and unconditional surrender to God. This happened to me the same night God revealed His love to me. I believe that anyone who gets a real glimpse of God's infinite love for him will just naturally submit to Him. I don't see how you could do anything else. The only explanation I can see, why people live their lives independent of God is because they don't know what they are missing. They have never really come face to face with God and all His love for them. When they do, they will never be the same.

The third essential for a successful Christian life is to know God's will. How can we ever expect to accomplish God's will for our lives if we don't know what it is? This is a crucial element of the Christian life that many believers are unsure about.

In my own life, I can say without a doubt, that knowing I'm in the center of God's will has been like an anchor to me. We all have storms that come against us, but if our anchors hold, we'll still be in the same place when the storm passes over. Jamie and I have been through things that would have shipwrecked us if we hadn't known we were exactly where God wanted us to be.

From the very beginning, after the Lord revealed His awesome love to me, I began to experience God's leading in my life. He definitely led me to quit college, which in 1968 meant an automatic, all expenses paid, trip to Vietnam. I could have buckled under the pressure at times, but I had an all consuming assurance that I was directly in the center of God's will. That kept me in peace. I knew God's infinite love for me would only will good for my life and I didn't have to understand it. I just trusted it. What a blessing!

Jeremiah 29:11 says, "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end." The Lord actually spoke this through the prophet Jeremiah to the children of Israel who had been taken captives by Nebuchadnezzar. They were in a terrible situation. Their homeland had been destroyed. The temple had been defiled and they were captives in a foreign land. Yet the Lord had good things in store for them. Despite their disobedience, God wanted to prosper them. That's true for every one of us too. In spite of what we've done or not done, the Lord has a perfect plan for every one of our lives. Our future is so bright we have to squint to look at it. All we have to do is believe.

So, how do we discover God's will for our lives? The answer is found in the first two things I discussed. We have to know experientially, the goodness of God and make an absolute surrender to Him, and then God's direction for our lives will come effortlessly.

Romans 12:1-2 says it this way, "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

These verses are actually saying that God's will for every one of us is to be totally surrendered to Him as a living sacrifice. Then and only then, as we renew our minds, we will prove what His direction is for our lives. The word "prove" means, "to make manifest to the physical senses." If we become a living sacrifice and renew our minds, it's impossible to miss God's direction. He wants to use us more than we want to be used. The biggest obstacle is our unusableness.

God's primary will for my life isn't to be a minister of the Gospel. It is to be completely yielded to Him. The way He chooses to use me is to preach the Gospel. There is a progression of events here. I am to be committed to the Lord as a living sacrifice, then transformed by the renewing of my mind, which comes through the Word of God, and then I experience God's direction for my vocation. If I preach the Gospel without being yielded to Him, I'm not fulfilling His will.

I believe that people do sometimes discover God's vocation for them. Their gifts lead them in that direction, but if they aren't totally committed to the Lord and if they haven't aligned their thinking with God's Word, they are likely to ruin the whole thing. I think this is what has happened with some very visible media ministers. They entered into God's vocation for them, but they lacked the character that comes from being totally surrendered to Christ, and their own success destroyed them.

In many cases, I believe it is actually the mercy of God that prevents us from discovering His vocation for us before we make a total commitment to Him. Trying to get godly results in our own strength is frustrating to say the least and most of the time it is down right painful. He is more concerned about us than He is about using us. He doesn't want us to try and serve Him in our own ability. We need to come to the end of ourselves to come to the beginning of Him. That's done through this absolute surrender.

As we yield ourselves completely to the Lord, He will mold us into who He wants us to be, and then He will use us. God wants to use us more than we want to be used. We should never pray, "God use me." Instead we should pray, "God make me usable." The moment we become usable, the Lord will put us to work.

A ship builder never builds a ship to leave in dry dock. Manufacturers don't make cars just to sit around. The Lord doesn't work on us and then never use us. Our focus shouldn't be on seeking the Lord to use us, but rather on making ourselves usable. We don't have to kick the doors open. When the time is right, the Lord will make a way.

Notice that Romans 12:1-2 states two things that we have to do before we prove the perfect will of God. Verse one says that we have to make a total commitment of our lives to Him and verse two says we have to renew our minds. I believe it is possible to be committed to the Lord, yet fail to renew your mind through God's Word. This will keep you from experiencing His best for you.

Verse two says we will be transformed by the renewing of our minds. The Greek word for "transformed" is "METAMORPHOO," which is the word from which we get our English word "metamorphosis." That describes the change that takes place when a worm spins a cocoon and then emerges as a butterfly. If we want that type of transformation in our lives, we have to change the way we think. It's insanity to expect different results without changing our thinking because "For as he thinketh in his heart, so [is] he. . . " (Pro. 23:7).

The renewing of our minds is nothing more than thinking like God thinks. That happens as we study God's Word and take heed to act accordingly. God's Word contains His thoughts. We exchange our opinions for His opinions as revealed in His Word. As we think differently, we will act differently and will begin to experience God's best in every area of our lives. That will certainly include having our steps directed by God.

Psalm 37:4 says, "Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart." That doesn't just mean that the Lord will just give us whatever we want. He's saying that when we delight ourselves in Him, God will put His desires in our hearts. That's essentially what Romans 12:1-2 is saying. A person who is truly delighting in the Lord is surrendered to Him and once his mind has been renewed, his desires change. He will see things differently. God's wisdom changes our desires to His desires because we recognize that His ways are better. Once this process has begun, then we can basically do what we want to do because our desires are now ordered by the Lord.

I was taught in the church I grew up in, to do the opposite of what I wanted to do and that would probably be what the Lord wanted. That's only true when a person is totally carnal. We can come into a relationship with the Lord through absolute surrender where our hearts have been changed and channeled to flow in the same direction as the Lord's. We may not obtain perfection in this life concerning this, but we certainly don't have to have our desires always oppose God's either. When we delight in Him, He puts His desires into our hearts.

Certainly all of us have witnessed or experienced people whose desires were not godly before they got saved. Yet after salvation, they completely changed. They no longer loved the things they once did. God put His desires in their hearts. That's the way it should be.

So, once a person has made a total commitment of his life to the Lord and started renewing his mind through studying God's Word, he can basically do what he wants to do. That's one way to discern God's will. What do you want to do?

I must caution you that this is a dangerous principle for anyone who isn't really committed to God and seeking Him with all his heart. If you aren't in that place, you should get there soon. Until then, you can't be led by your desires. Once you are truly delighting yourself in the Lord, you can let your heart lead you. I've done that many times and found it to be God's leading.

Finding God's will should be a very important issue for every Christian. We are even commanded not to be ignorant, "but understanding what the will of the Lord is" (Eph. 5:17). It's not hard. It just takes commitment. There is a lot of information in God's Word about this. He wants you to experience His best.




(written by AWM)