Do you think any one denomination is right?

[layne]

<DIV>I want to start going to attending&nbsp; church... :help: </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Is there any scriptural advice on which church to join? Do you think God will send a sure fire sign if I pray? :pray:&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>(Every time I have prayed for help in this, a Jehovah's Witness has come up and offered me literature while I've been waiting for the bus, and it's always been on&nbsp;a day when I've been late or something. I wonder if those were just coincidences, or signs from God? Or maybe it's just because&nbsp;they're always out there preaching?)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;:confused:&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'm sure someone has a good scripture to point out? </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks!</DIV>

[kelco]

Layne I'm really glad you have decided to go to church. :clap: But IMHO it's best to avoid Jehova's Witness meetings. It's really just a coincidence that they seem to be around when you are late. Hanging around bus stations and airports is one of the ways the use to "recruit" new members. Any church with sound bible based doctrine is a good choice. You might want to attend several churches and I'm sure that you will find one that you can call home.&nbsp;

As for bible verses

<DIR>Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.</DIR>
<DIR>&nbsp;Col 1:19 For it was the good pleasure <I>of the Father</I> that in him should all the fulness dwell; Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, <I>I say</I>, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens. Col 1:21 And you, being in time past alienated and enemies in your mind in your evil works, Col 1:22 yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and without blemish and unreproveable before him: Col 1:23 if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister. Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and fill up on my part that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the <B>church</B>; Col 1:25 whereof I was made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which was given me to you-ward, to fulfil the word of God, Col 1:26 <I>even</I> the mystery which hath been hid for ages and generations: but now hath it been manifested to his saints, Col 1:27 to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Col 1:28 whom we proclaim, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ; Col 1:29 whereunto I labor also, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.


May God bless you and guide you in you search for a church to attend.&nbsp; Kelly&nbsp;

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

&nbsp;</DIR>

[Bondservant]

layne,

kelco is correct - I would avoid the JW

kelco is also correct about visiting several churches.

I am a Roman Catholic - i was born into the church, but during my adult life I left the church because I was conviced that it was in grave error and sin.

I studied and studied scripture and early christian writings and I fond myself being drawn back to the Catholic Church. I ask that you at least consider going to an Inquiry meeting at a local Catholic church.

The Inquiry meeting is a "no obligation" opportunity to ask questions and get answers about the Catholic walk.

I am not going to stand here and say that salvation is only found in the Catholic chruch - because I feel that would be puting Christ in a box - His love and mercy are so much beyond our own - we could not possibly understand.

The key is that you find a community of believers that aid you in your walk with Christ. Find one that is biblicaly sound and dedicated to our one and only mediator and advocate Jesus Christ.

I will pray for you this night that the Lord will lead you to where He wants you to be.

God Bless you on the journey

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
EDIT:

While I will tell you no single denomination is "the right" denomination, I will tell you that most churchs today would be hard pressed if tested against biblical christianity. I would strongly suggest that you become very familiar with your Bible, and check out a few reformed bapatist churches.

avoid the catholic church, as it is not a christian church, but one that preaches "another" gospel as Paul warns about in his epistles.

[fragmentsofdreams]

No church is perfect. Just pray for guidence.

I would avoid Jehovah's Witnesses. They intentionally mistranslate their Bible in order to support their beliefs.

[Andrew]

I would avoid any church that calls itself the "one true church" ie all others are wrong.

I would advise you to attend a church where the Bible is the sole authority. and where the full Gospel is preached -- ie Jesus saves, heals, prospers and protects. I wld also rec. a church which believes in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

above all, Jesus must be the CENTRE of attention. Christ and Christ crucified MUST BE the focus.

that's my opinion. :)

[paulewog]

I agree with the opinion just given. :)

I would seriously avoid any church or denomination that relies on an extra-Biblical source for guidance/interpretation. Example: it's either the JW's or the Mormons, I forgot which, that have a magazine called "The Watchtower" ...

And, of course, I'd suggest a very Bible-preaching church.... preferably one with longer than 10 minute sermonettes ;) hehe

(that idea is foreign to me, we have hour long sermons :))

[Andrew]

the JWs also have their own "Bible" called the Pearl of Great Price, which sort of replaces the Bible as we know.

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Andrew
I would avoid any church that calls itself the "one true church" ie all others are wrong.

I would advise you to attend a church where the Bible is the sole authority. and where the full Gospel is preached -- ie Jesus saves, heals, prospers and protects. I wld also rec. a church which believes in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

above all, Jesus must be the CENTRE of attention. Christ and Christ crucified MUST BE the focus.

that's my opinion. :)

A poorly veiled reference to the Catholic Church.&nbsp; Oh Andrew, Christ IS our center and focus.

[MizDoulos]

Please Note:

Let's not make accusations against each other. Use your e-mail or private message option in the profile page if you have an issue with another member. I'm sure you can understand that if this continues, the discussion may deteriorate into personal arguments. If this attitude continues, the thread will be locked.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[Matto]

The wierd thing about the JW's is that they require you to have a Bible "study partner" in order to read scriptures, and you must also have supplimental reading (Perhaps the "Pearl of Great Price"?) that supports their belief system. They found that if you do not have those things, people will "revert to Christianity."

I wonder why.

I grew up in a Presbyterian church. Hey, you want to hear a Presbyterian joke? Okay, what do you get when you cross a Jehovah's Witness with a Presbyterian?

A guy who knocks on your door and then doesn't say anything.

<Badum bum.>

That was the big joke at their last Missionary Conferance, so I hear. Currently I attend (perhaps the world's only) Pentecostal Presbyterian church. Now there's a good time. The pastor is this former Muslim from Africa who was converted by the power of the Holy Spirit. He's doing missionary work here in the U.S. now. It's intimidating, because his presbyterian congregation is DEAD silent, and he gets so into things that they had to buy him a fan. He's always asking for "Amen's" and for praise.

I'm hoping to drag some guys from college down there. He's a fantastic preacher.

Whew. Sorry. Just sharing.

[SnuP]

There is one church that is right for you. Just ask God to reveal it.

[TheBear]

Originally posted by s0uljah
A poorly veiled reference to the Catholic Church.&nbsp; Oh Andrew, Christ IS our center and focus.

I didn't get that from Andrew's post. :scratch:


Here is what I got out of it. (And Andrew, if I'm wrong, please correct me.)

---------------------------------------------------

There are plenty of divisive churches in the world who claim that they are the only true church. Some go as far as claiming that all other denominations are going to hell. A lot of herretical groups teach this. Some of these churches place more emphasis on their church than on Christ.

---------------------------------------------------

And even though there may have been some disagreements between Andrew and some Catholic members in the past, this is another thread, this another topic, and we are addressing a another member, who is sincerely asking some legitimate questions. This is not the time nor the place to be reading things into another member's post, out of a knee-jerk, defensive reaction.



layne,

Seek Him with sincerity in your heart. Seek guidance from the Holy Spirit. God will lead you to the right fellowship with other Christians. If you humble yourself before Him, He will not let you go astray. :)

John

[Job_38]

Originally posted by Andrew
the JWs also have their own "Bible" called the Pearl of Great Price, which sort of replaces the Bible as we know.

&nbsp;

&nbsp;Just want to clear up some misinformation,

Andrew, it is the Mormons who use the Pearl of Great Price, they also use the Bible(KJV, as long as its translated correctly, i.e. their way) and the Doctrines and Covenants.

[VOW]

To Andrew:

"Pearl of Great Price" is one of the Mormon Scriptures, along with the Book of Mormon and Doctrines and Covenants.

The Mormon Church (LDS) is completely different than Jehovah's Witnesses.



Peace,
~VOW

[Help-me-learn]

I think all christian churches have a little light. That does not include JW's or LDS. I'm not talking about christian cults.

Like someone said before me just pray and dont be fooled by the devil.

If they teach that Jesus is God, and not a god then that is a good start.

[layne]

<DIV>I've been to maybe 4 different churches this past year. One was a christian church. One was called "church of the Nazarene", the other was a catholic church, then there was the JW meeting I went to. I found that the christian one and the Nazarene one didn't give a scriptural basis for their talks. The Catholic priest had a bad accent and I couldn't make out a word he was saying. :eek: </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I know that I don't want to go somewhere with a bread and wine service every time I go, or one with a rock band. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Could someone give me a list of the different churches, ie, Anglican, United..&nbsp; and what the atmospheres are like, ie, lots of people saying hallelujah during the songs, or lots of yelling and amens...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>There are hundreds of churches in Calgary, and I don't know where to begin. :sigh: I've been so far to just the ones in my neighborhood.</DIV>

[Chloe]

Just keep going and I'm sure you'll find the right church for you. Make sure the one you do choose is a Bible believing and teaching church. And as others have suggested pray, and keep praying, God will lead you to where you'll be fed.

[VOW]

To Layne:

I'm sorry you didn't understand the priest at the Catholic Church you attended. Try another parish.

If Bible is what you want, you will have plenty at a Catholic Church. Many of the prayers are straight from Scripture, and there are also Bible readings during the service. On Sundays, there are at least 3, plus one from the Psalms.

The Bread and Wine are central to every single Catholic service. The Mass was celebrated whenever the members of the Early Church gathered in Jesus's name.

Keep looking, keep studying, keep learning! The Holy Spirit will fill you with wisdom in whatever you do.



Peace be with you,
~VOW

[Andrew]

Thanks The Bear, you are right.

Wasnt even thinking of the Catholic Church when I said that. There are also protestant churches who dont focus on Jesus or who think they are the only true church and the rest are wrong.

and oh, sorry abt the mix up betw JWs and Mormons.

the JWs have the Watch Tower (i think) and the mormons the Pearl of Great Price.

[Job_38]

I agree Andrew, it is wrong to label all Catholics as heathens and what not, because my friend at school is one and she loves God and it shows. But I find alot that do it because they have to or it has just been a family tradition.

[layne]

I'm not really interested in anything other than a non-denominational christian church, (I think.....)

I've heard bad things, or things that turn me off about Catholicism, Aglicans, United, etc.

I also don't understand what makes JW's like a cult, or mormons like a cult, not that I am trying to defend anyone.

Oh well. Not important. Some ways these different churches worship or teach are not for everyone, and don't really need to be criticized.

[Job_38]

found this definition:a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; <I>also</I> <B>:</B> its body of adherents
&nbsp;<B>:</B> great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); <I>especially</I> <B>:</B> such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad <B>b</B> <B>:</B> a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

[Caedmon]

Well, I'll tell you what... I'm tired of trying to figure out which denomination I belong to. Presbyterians are the closest to my theology, but I find it difficult to accept infant baptism. Reformed Baptist would be good, if it wasn't for the intense contempt they, in general, have for Catholics. I'm about fed up trying to decide. I'm starving spiritually, especially not having a group of constant Christian brothers and sisters to fellowship with. I don't know where to go to church, and that's just plain ole sad. Hmph... :sigh:

[DaveKerwin]

all denominations are wrong, no one has it right.

find a church that believes the bible and teaches it.

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by DaveKerwin
all denominations are wrong, no one has it right.

find a church that believes the bible and teaches it.

Aye, there's the rub...

Define "a church that believes the bible and teaches it".

[Athlon4all]

No, Denominations are man's divisions, and neither is right. I would seek the holy spirits will in this decision, but it much preach the word of God as it is.

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by Athlon4all
No, Denominations are man's divisions, and neither is right. I would seek the holy spirits will in this decision, but it much preach the word of God as it is.

How do you know what the Holy Spirit's will is? John Calvin said that the idea that the Earth orbits around the Sun went against Scripture and the Holy Spirit.

And what is the "word of God as it is"? Can you lose salvation? Is the Eucharist the literal Body and Blood of Christ? Are Christians predestined? Which interpretation of the Scriptures is correct? And please don't tell me that interpretations are "man's divisions". Interpretation always occurs when a text is read and studied. So, which theology is the most correct?

[eldermike]

We are not called to attend church. But we should attend church. We are called to serve God, to make disciples, to grow them into committed followers of Christ so they may also serve God, make disciples and grow them into committed followers of Christ (it's just keeps repeating). Paul said it this way: Let us not forsake gathering together as has become the habit of some but let us spur one another on to good works. (paraphrased, too lazy to look it up).

Seek God's will for your life, including a fellowship that requires you to have a servant heart and a strong understanding of why it is we are called Christians. The cross is your place of reference. Jesus (God the Son) died on a cross so that all who will believe will be saved.
Avoid all people and places that deny the Divinity of Jesus.

My advise to anyone seeking the will of God is: Set a time every day to alone with God. Clear your mind (not as easy as you might think) Pray for wisdom - Read scripture - Be still. This whole process can be 15 minutes, it can be an hour, it's not about length, it;s about depth.
I suggest the Gospel of John. I believe you will hear from God before you finish it. Jesus only wants us to come to Him in truth, not perfect, but as we are. This is my personal method and I share it only as a suggestion, there are plenty of methods.

Find a place to serve that you feel "God has sent me here", it will make attending a joy.

Blessings

[pdwblw]

It is important to pray and see where God wants you to go and where you can be ministered to as well as minister to others.&nbsp; Be careful not to look at what a church can do for you but also what you can do for the church.&nbsp; It isn't wrong to go to different churches and allow God to direct you through that.&nbsp; Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons aren't an option if you want to grow in the Lord.&nbsp; They are cults by definition and belief.&nbsp; (edited out by eldermike)Know God and His word and allow Him to guide you.

[eldermike]

Pdwblw,

I see you are new here. We have many RCC memebers, several moderaotrs and administrators. The purpose of this forum is unity of the Body of Christ. I am going to edit out your comments on the RCC and give you the benifit of the doubt. Please read the rules. You are welcome here and I pray that your time here will be both a blessing to you and to the forum.

Thank you for understanding.

[layne]

What makes JW's or mormons cultish though? I haven't found that they do anything differently, other than that they uphold morals a little more than most other churches, and that they don't do the communion thing everyday, and that they are more into evangalism....I'm not trying to defend them, but now that people have mentioned cult, I would like to know what exactly do they do that makes them a cult? And who are we to say that we are right and they are wrong? We all believe in the same God, don't we? And don't we also study from the same (or almost the same) bible? So, what is the biblical proof then to back up what people think about them?

[eldermike]

Jesus is God.

[layne]

So, if one doesn't believe in the trinity (like myself), are there any churches that don't teach this other than these "cults"?

[eldermike]

Lane,

If you do not believe that Jesus is God the Son (part of the Trinity) then you can't post in this forum or any Christian Only forum. You must post only in forums that allow non-Christians.

certain cults and sects that may consider themselves "Christian", the definition of a "Christian" for the purposes of these forums will be according to the contents of the Nicene Creed which summarizes the main doctrines of Evangelical Protestant & Catholic Christianity as listed below:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy [universal] and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

[layne]

Ok, then maybe I misunderstand the trinity. Doesn't it mean that God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus, are all one in the same? But according to what you just&nbsp;stated there, the trinity is......what? I am sick today. Could you please clarify this for me? Maybe I do believe this and have misunderstood the concept this entire time.

[eldermike]

Yes, there is only one God, in three persons (Trinity). God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

[eldermike]

Layne,

Some will tell you that the Trinity doctrine is man made. Run like a rabbit from them. If we deny the Divinity of Jesus we deny Jesus. It's that important, it's eternally important.

Layne, are you saved? Do you know that you are saved?

[Smilin]

Layne,
For those of us who worship independently,
there is no such thing as denominations.

However, upon invitation, I will commune
with others in their place of worship.

[layne]

<DIV>Originally posted by eldermike
Layne,

Some will tell you that the Trinity doctrine is man made. Run like a rabbit from them. If we deny the Divinity of Jesus we deny Jesus. It's that important, it's eternally important.

Layne, are you saved? Do you know that you are saved? </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Trinity doctrine...there is a doctrine for this? What do you mean by doctrine? If it isn't manmade, then what is the biblical evidence for this? I haven't been told by anyone anything about the trinity, other than what it means, but I decided from reading the bible on my own that I don't see how Jesus and God are one in the same, when there are many scriptures talking about how they are Father and son. No one has explained what it is that makes them all one in&nbsp;the same. Does this mean one spiritual body, like how we are one human body? Or one body in church? </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Do you mean baptized? If not then I am not sure what you mean.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Perhaps you could PM me to explain this to me in greater detail, if you don't mind. </DIV>

[eldermike]

Layne,

You are a young female. I am going to find another mod more suited to talk with you in private. I hope you understand.

Blessings

[Pastor N.B.]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by layne
[B]<DIV>I want to start going to attending&nbsp; church... :help: </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Is there any scriptural advice on which church to join? Do you think God will send a sure fire sign if I pray? :pray:&nbsp; </DIV>

(Zapped for question & with emphasised response)

******
Pastor N.B. here:
Perhaps the question is not about the GodHead. So I will try to keep with your thread! (I see that if one has a different view of the GodHead & come out of the closet so to speak, they are past tense here?)

And the [ONLY] sign that you need is the Word's that He has given us! :clap:

Denomination in the Word of God is described only, as the "Fold". The "True Virgin Fold" as in Matt. 25 or Amos 5:2. (a pure woman in doctrine only! see 2 Tim. 3:16) In the time of Christ, He sent His disciples to "the [lost sheep] of the house of Israel". (see Matt. 10:5-6 for this first commandment) This was Christ's own! This was the TRUE FOLD as He told [us] ... "ALL therefore whatsoever they bid you do observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for [they say, and do not]." (see Matt. 23:3)

In Eph. 4:5 we see that there is [one Faith]. (Fold)
The Master taught in John 10:16 a very special Truth that seems has gone the way of [Only Believe]? Here is what [He] says:
"And [OTHER SHEEP] I have, which [are not of THIS FOLD]: (good Christians, yet they are in the wrong fold) them [also MUST I BRING, AND THERE SHALL BE *ONE FOLD, AND *ONE SHEPARD]".

So the question is counter productive! If Christ is the one True Shepard & His sheep are in [other folds], who is their shepard? And WHY MUST DOES HE SAY.. "I MUST BRING"? (try Rev. 3:9)

OK: This is your question, right? So yes, it does take a serious decision to join any 'Fold'. Try Matt. 28:20 for starters in the King James!
Another thought might be? If I were a converted Christian in the wrong Fold, why leave? Heb. 6:1-6 & only the positives? :scratch: Am I not saved? So to understand this thought, lets go to the Word's of Christ's *closing book,

"And I heard another voice [from heaven], saying, [COME OUT OF HER (fold) MY PEOPLE], that ye be not [*PARTAKERS OF HER SINS], and that [YE RECEIVE NOT OF HER PLAGUES]." Rev. 18:4. Sure sounds like a 'eternal life or an eternal death decision, does it not? And even more 'inlightening' is the verse of Rev. 17:5.. "The [Mother of Harlots and Abomination of the earth]."

It sure says for me at least, that I MUST BE SURE THAT MY DOCTRINES ARE OF THE RIGHT VIRGIN FOLD, *and* that I am using the Everlasting Gospel Provisions of the Master in [Obedience] of them! (try Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 & Acts 5:32)

Hope that this helps! Remember the Master's Words of Matt. 4:4! P/N/B/

[layne]

I really don't understand the KJV very well. What you are trying to say is that the only folds are those who follow God and those who don't? Or that there is one true christian fold, and the rest are good christians, but of the wrong fold?

[Caedmon]

The Mormon church teaches that all good male Mormons will eventually become gods, marry multiple goddess wives, and have spiritual children, which they will be allowed to place on their own private planet. Now if that doesn't give you a reason to beware Mormonism, then I don't know what will.

[Caedmon]

The first chapter of John gives a wonderful illustration of the Holy Trinity.

[eldermike]

Pastor NB,

I am confused by your post, it might be just me.
Is Jesus God?

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by layne
I really don't understand the KJV very well. What you are trying to say is that the only folds are those who follow God and those who don't? Or that there is one true christian fold, and the rest are good christians, but of the wrong fold?
*********
Hi, what anyone says, matters little. It is what the Word of Christ says that matters. The verses that were given states that there is only one true [FOLD].

The Word always talks of the true FOLD as VIRGINS. (meaning pure doctrines) There are 'other' FOLDS denominations. They have some GOOD SINCERE CHRISTIANS [INSIDE OF THEM] in [YOKED MEMBERSHIP], but the Master does not recognize the [denomination-FOLD] as having truth. Yet these (us, you and me) are accountable to learn Truth! (try Hosea 4:6)

Once again: We need to be [certain] that we are following Christ! That is what He askes of us. When we KNOW what to do, and then do not do it, to [US] it is sin. And in time, after quenching & grieving the Spirits leading,
He will leave us to our own self-rightousness! (see Rev. 3:16-17)

Do you want some verses? Try Isa. 59:1-2. John 9:31. Notice Psalms 66:18 & another condition? Try 1 John 3:21-22.-----P/N/B/

[eldermike]

Mod Hat on:

Pastor NB,

Please respond to my question.

[eldermike]

Pastor NB,

I just sent you a PM. Please read it.

Thank you

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by eldermike
Pastor NB,

I am confused by your post, it might be just me.
Is Jesus God?
*****
Hi Elder Mike:
It seem that for some reason I am not getting the replys sent to my in/box for notification from Christian forums that I had been getting? (for your & others reply) It is a wonder that I read this one perhaps?

But for your question? The Word (Christ) is eternal! (Everlasting Gospel)
If there is an ETERNAL GOSPEL, THEN CHRIST AS GOD HAS IMMORTALITY as well as God the Father, (as we know Him) and God the Holy Spirit!
And in the beginning of man, we are told.. "Let us make man in [our image]"
Our Image as in the plural! Christ was not GOD/MAN yet. (only in the PLAN of SALVATIONS FURTURE) Check Rom. 4:17's last part of verse.

OK: The WORD TEACHES TWO AS GOD SO FAR. Both of these have an image as man was patterned after. (even down to being a pro/creator! bear children) And we also recall the tower of Babel? Where God & God made the statement, .. "Let [US] go down and confound their language".

Now, we come to another PERSONAL GOD. The Word says,.. that "GOD IS A SPIRIT". Also note the Words Word of [HOLY SPIRIT and HOLY GHOST]. (no image here suggested)
Christ says that [HE] will testify of Me and not of [Himself].
Surely we know of John 3:5-8 & 2 Cor. 3:3 recreated requirement?

Yet, it is not just a New Testament Holy Spirit working God! Notice in Gen. 1 last part, .. "And the SPIRIT OF GOD MOVED UPON THE FACE OF THE WATERS". (in creation)

Did you catch that? How about this one, ... "And the Spirit of God [came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was kindled greatly." 1 Sam. 11:6 Notice chapter 10:9, ... "And it [was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samual, GOD GAVE HIM ANOTHER HEART."
:clap:

I know that we are crossing threads perhaps? But let see 1 Sam. 16:14's
rejection of the ex/converted saint?
Notice: That this is God the Holy Spirit that is seen to be Grieved & Quenched away.
"But the Spirit of the Lord [departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him." This can best be understood in Gen. 4:7, of what takes place when one makes an MATURE decision of rejection of the Holy Ghost :cry:. (also try Matt. 12:31-32)

I hope that this helps? P/N/B/

[eldermike]

Pastor NB,

Thanks for responding. I see 3 Gods in your post, not 3 persons of one God.
Am I reading you wrong?
Is that 3 Gods or One God, in three persons (The trinity)

[The Squalid Wanderer]

Dear Eldermike,

I am confused by what you meant by we are not commanded to attend church.

How do you then understand the words in Hebrews 10And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

[His Little Servant]

I don't think God intended for everyone to break up into denominations on Earth when he created us. In Heaven, I don't believe that they're are denominations, and I don't think God will judge you based on what church you attended. The only thing you need to worry about is worshipping Him with all of your heart. If you can solemly swear that you believe that Jesus died for you and for your sins, so that you could go to heaven and if you truely believe that Jesus is God, and if you redeem yourself of all you sins and lay them upon God, than I believe that'd enough to give you eternal life. The church thing, is important, but it is just for fellowship and support.

[eldermike]

The Squalid Wanderer,

Hebrews 10 should be read from it's very first verse to get the context (as it ture for all of scripture). We are not to gather together because of sin but to help each other in our work for Christ. That is what I meant. Read all of Hebrews 10.

Read the first few verses of Heb. carefully.

Blessings

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by eldermike
Pastor NB,

Thanks for responding. I see 3 Gods in your post, not 3 persons of one God.
Am I reading you wrong?
Is that 3 Gods or One God, in three persons (The trinity)
*******
Hi, :)
Yes 'Seperate' except in perfect 'unity'! "Let [us] go down and.." "become as [one] of [us]" Does this do the trick? The word trinity is a problem word for some perhaps :confused:?

If you are stating your words with "I see three Gods in your post, not three persons of one God." That sounds right. But lets add instead of one God, the word GodHead? Now you would be asking... "I see 3 Gods in your post, not three persons of one GodHead"??

Thanks for your responce! By the way, I posted this first responce before you asked me not to. ---P/N/B/

PS: My earlier remark was made because it sounded like censor was threatened. (to another person) And the doctrine of the GodHead is fairly hard for one to explain, look at us? :)
And I am convinced that there are many Christians who are Christians, that just need to understand this Truth. (maybe me, huh?) Or, what are we to do with the ones of Rom. 2:14-15 who have never even heard of the Master, as we know Him?? yet they still are they.. "Which [show] the work of the law WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS."? (Converted as of John 3:5-8 or 2 Cor. 3:3 & do not even know it! :clap: )

[Phoebe]

No. I don't think any one denomination has a corner on salvation.

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by Phoebe
No. I don't think any one denomination has a corner on salvation.
*********
Hi, Pastor N.B. here:
Let me ask it this way, do you think that anyone can be saved by staying in membership (unequally yoked) with [any] or all denominations, that [WE] are convinced of, that have any known error in the doctrinal teachings? If this is what you are saying, what do we do with Rev. 18:4 & Joshua 7:12's last part of the verse? Sounds like that being a [known] partaker of open sin, means exactly that huh,? Lost!

And yes, we can agree to dis/agree! :clap: ---P/N/B/

[The Squalid Wanderer]

Dear ElderMike,

I'm not sure I understand you, but even if it is not a sin, does that mean that it is not commanded. The passage seems very explicit, and I have read it within it's context. I understand that the passage is for the encouragement and building up of the Church, but it is commanded of us as well. I do not see how these two are contradictory

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by eldermike
The Squalid Wanderer,

Hebrews 10 should be read from it's very first verse to get the context (as it ture for all of scripture). We are not to gather together because of sin but to help each other in our work for Christ. That is what I meant. Read all of Hebrews 10.

Read the first few verses of Heb. carefully.

*******
Here are another few verses to read slowly from Jeremiah! They are full of this Truth of "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together...". Start with Jeremiah 15:15-20. "'And [if] thou take forth the precious [from the vile] thou [shalt be as my mouth]". The question is, which group does God want us in??? Sounds like a work of 'seperating' or 'shaking' here, huh? try 2 Thess. 2:1-3 [BEFORE THE LORD COMES].

And remember that this is once again His own people here considered! see verses 5-7. So the question arises, what does one do with Heb. 10:25 now? Or are the churches better than His True Virgin Fold was back in this passage? see Rev. 3:16-17----P/N/B/

PS: To say yes, they are better, finds one inside of OPEN filth in the membership of many denominations. To say no, finds one in the class of Christ & being accused of flaming.
*******

Blessings

[Caedmon]

Pastor N.B., which is the right church, and what do they believe?

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by humblejoe
Pastor N.B., which is the right church, and what do they believe?
********
There is only one true Virgin denomination. (FOLD) OK? Now, there are many false folds that have saved present tense Christiand in them. Christ's Word tells us that when we know this Truth & are CONVINCED of it, then we are accountable for it! OK? Read Rev. 18:4.

Now, having said that, we find exact history being repeated as we ARE TOLD in Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15. Israel of old & Virgin Israel of today have had their denomination [made desolate] because of OPEN UNREPENTED SIN.
See Matt. 23:38 for Christ departure! [Who took over? try Rev. 3:9.]

Now pay apt attention: Christ SAYS: ["ALL THEREFOR WHATSOVER THEY BID YOU OBSERVE, THAT OBSERVE AND DO]; (doctrinwise only) But [DO NOT AFTER THEIR WORKS, FOR THEY SAY, AND DO NOT.]"

Both denominations started out right. And we can see in Josh. 7:12's last part why Christ was put out! (A EVERLASTING GOSPEL STATED TRUTH) Rom. 2 tells us who new Israel is. And Christ, when He started up the [NEW] denomination, He taught to keep all of His Fathers Commandments, They kept His Doctrines intack. See 2 Tim. 3:16
(And except for the Deut. 31 ones, that pointed to His completion of Moses handwritten law that were placed in [the side] of the Ark of the Covenant, NOT INSIDE)

OK: 1 Peter 4:17 tells us that the House of God (His Virgin denomination) is JUDGED FIRST! The other Christians denominations will be TESTED as to their true faith with the 666.

Now for your question of who it is that [WAS] (in past/tense) the true Virgin denomination? It is the Seventh-day Adventist denomination. And from it a Remnant will arive & be organized into the Philadelphian {organized} denomination. Matt. 10 is being reinacted & verse 23 will be seen before Christ comes again. Just befor ALL other 'folds' testing that follows. (that of the Mark of the Beast) Read John 10:16 & Eph. 4:5

Hope this helps. ---P/N/B/

[layne]

Wow, a lot happens when it's the weekend and I am away!
Pastor NB, I read that Catholicism was the first church. This is confusing. I also don't understand your posts regarding the trinity. (Perhaps this is because of the generation gap, and different lingo used? :))
Are you saying that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are serperate, but part of the same Godhead? Or that they are one in the same? That Jesus is God, God is God and The Holy Spirit is God, and they are all God?

[Pastor N.B.]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by layne
[B]Wow, a lot happens when it's the weekend and I am away!
Pastor NB, I read that Catholicism was the first church. This is confusing.

[Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are serperate, but part of the same Godhead]
*******
Hi again!
Let me do it this way, I am going to delete what the bible does not teach & let [your words] from above say what it teaches :) And I dropped the question mark! P/N/B/

PS: if Catholicism was the first church, then Christ did not know about it! There is a church in Rev. 3:9 that says that they are 'spiritual Jews, but read the inspiration there? The :confused: ones are her daughters it seems, see Rev. 17:5. That is because of her 'fermented' wine it says! see verse 1-2 ibide.. But to bow down to a man?? Read the last book of the Master's Word verses 8-9 for what even the heavenly angels do. Thanks but NO THANKS!

[layne]

Thanks, PNB. I really get mixed messages about the Trinity. Some people are saying Jesus is God, and others are saying they are seperate entities, but part of the same Godhead. I find that easier to understand. Thank you!
And I didn't really think that the Catholic was the first church, but it's also said to be the church Jesus started, is that true?

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by layne
Thanks, PNB. I really get mixed messages about the Trinity. Some people are saying Jesus is God, and others are saying they are seperate entities, but part of the same Godhead. I find that easier to understand. Thank you!
And I didn't really think that the Catholic was the first church, but it's also said to be the church Jesus started, is that true?
*******
No that is not true.
There is absolutely no resemblance to the 'Fold' that Christ started, in Catholic theology! Try 1 Jn. 2:4. The commandments have been changed. And try Rev. 22:9's last book of the Master's word. The boss has people falling down kissing his ring & confessing sin to his fellow helpers.
Even the angels of the Universe KEEP the sayings of the book. Not Catholics.
Are there good sincere Catholics in that fold? Surely! Try John 10:16. Yet the 'Fold' itself is what has to be given up when by knowledge of inspiration, one is convicted. Read what happens to His people who dis/obey in Rev. 18:4. This is not complicated if one TRUELY LOVES THEIR MASTER. (one either believes the Word of God or is seen as the Mark 7:7 vain worshipers) ---P/N/B/

PS. Look at Isa. 5 about the Lords Virgin [Vineyard]. (FOLD or Denomination) Lotice the Wording in verse 3? "JUDGE, I PRAY YOU, [BETWIXT] ME AND MY VINEYARD". & verse 7 tells us that the Vineyard is the House of Israel." ( FOLD, VINEYARD, DENOMINATION-Spiritual Israel are seen in Rom. 2:28-29)

[EJO]

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.
********

Now for your question of who it is that [WAS] (in past/tense) the true Virgin denomination? It is the Seventh-day Adventist denomination. And from it a Remnant will arive & be organized into the Philadelphian {organized} denomination. Matt. 10 is being reinacted & verse 23 will be seen before Christ comes again. Just befor ALL other 'folds' testing that follows. (that of the Mark of the Beast) Read John 10:16 & Eph. 4:5

Hope this helps. ---P/N/B/

What does Seventh Day Adventism Teach?

Affirmations

The Bible is inspired and the word of God.
Trinitarian: The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are all one God in three persons.
Jesus is God and has always existed with the Father.
The Holy Spirit is a person.
Jesus' sacrifice was vicarious.
Salvation is by grace, not works.
Jesus rose from the dead physically in his glorified body.
Jesus ascended bodily into heaven.
Baptism is by immersion
The literal, visible return of Jesus.
Jesus will return to set up a millennial kingdom. They are Premillennial.
Literal six day creation, not long periods.

Denials

Denies the doctrine of predestination
Denies baptism by sprinkling
Denies infant baptism.
Denies the immortality of the soul.
Denies the eternality of hell fire.
Denies any use of alcohol (as a drink) or tobacco.

Aberrant

Our sins will ultimately be placed on Satan - The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485.
Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
Worship must be done on Saturday (the Sabbath).
On October 22, 1844 Jesus entered the second and last phase of his atoning work.
Investigative Judgment - the fate of all people will be decided based upon this event in the future.
The dead do not exist anymore -- soul sleep.
The wicked are annihilated.
Ellen G. White, the "founder" of Seventh Day Adventism, was a messenger from God gifted with the spirit of prophecy.
There is a sanctuary in heaven where Jesus carries out his mediatorial work.

SOURCE: http://www.carm.org/sda/teachings.htm

[Pastor N.B.]

Hi, P/N/B/ here:
A couple thoughts :scratch: The Bible says a truth in Rev. 3:16-17. "naked" "Blind" and they say... 'm'aster I,I,I,I,I, need NOTHING! (reality translation)

So lets do an experiment. Most know perhaps, that the serpent was the 'd'evil in the garden, (Rev. 12) and it was he who was talking to Eve? Now just suppose that after she & Adam were created on the 6th day of creation, that the next day being the Sabbath day of the Lord, (you know, Memorial day of creation. see Psalms 135:13) that the Creator gave these two their first Sabbath sermon!? :) Now, for Christ's sermon topic? How about, the one in the garden?
's'atan? evil, sin, PERVERSION, a liar from the beginning, we are told!? Maybe Eve did not have the perfect knowledge that we do today about satan, huh? Maybe she was kept in the dark, but not us huh?

Let just suppose that Adam & Eve [were] created 'perfect'! And perhaps the Masters first sermon told both of them about the rebellion in heaven? And that Lucifer was the first covering cherub over the Ark wherein were the Universial [eternal Covenant], the Royal Law, the ten commandments. (Eze. 28) And then [we see] that he apostasized. (big time) Now we need to remember that the Masters (creator) Words of caution were to stay [AWAY] from this created being! But what does the Woman do??

Just perhaps she (as most of us today [do]) says, well, Lord you created me [perfect!] (not just good anyway, but VERY GOOD) And this Lucifer ex/angel person?? Well Lord, with me being perfect & all, and you know that I believe in you, and that cannot fall from grace, you know Lord, everlasting Gospel MERCY, and Lord, Lucifer knows all about Seventh-day Adventists! And the [MERCY SEAT] that he was once the covering cherub over! And I was inquisitive Lord!!---AND I JUST KNEW THAT hE COULD TEACH ME SOMETHING!! (and he sure did & will! go see, huh?)

Why Master did I not come to you for the Truth first? Your WORD?? Instead of having 'another' tell me of these false ones? (Seventh-day Adventist Virgin doctrines) And instead of going on the devils ground, to inquire about [your doctrines], you ask? Lord I am confussed, really :confused: Was not Lucifer a one time Seventh-day Adventist in your Fold??? Surely he would not lead me astray would he Lord??? I mean Lord, he knows all about your Law, Everlasting Covenant, and your Mercy Seat in the Throng room of heaven! The HEAVENLY SANCTUARY! Psalms 77:13.

Yes, Eve might not have heard this sermon & did not walk on the devils ground [persumptously]? But that IS NOT YOU HERE'S CASE! Psalms 19:13. You have ALL 66 BOOKS OF INSPIRATION to learn true DOCTRINE from, without going to the forbidden tree to eat of its forbidden fruit! 2 Tim. 3:16- Rev. 18:4?

If one wants to know what Seventh-day Adventist [really] believe? Go to
the site of [Amazing Facts]. Just write it in in your top ADDRESS & click on it.
This below post not only voids out Christ & His Eternal Law & Everlasting Gospel, but clearly is seen in 2 Cor. 4:2 as DOING SO!
P/N/B/

PS: Error in Doctrine is not the trouble with the Adventist Denomination.
But no one can be in the [Virgin Fold] without this Doctrine! It takes both to make a [Virgin denomination]. [Christ 'and' His true Virgin Doctrines]!
+++++++++

[i]Originally posted by EJO
What does Seventh Day Adventism Teach?

Affirmations

The Bible is inspired and the word of God.
Trinitarian: The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are all one God in three persons.
Jesus is God and has always existed with the Father.
The Holy Spirit is a person.
Jesus' sacrifice was vicarious.
Salvation is by grace, not works.
Jesus rose from the dead physically in his glorified body.
Jesus ascended bodily into heaven.
Baptism is by immersion
The literal, visible return of Jesus.
Jesus will return to set up a millennial kingdom. They are Premillennial.
Literal six day creation, not long periods.

Denials

Denies the doctrine of predestination
Denies baptism by sprinkling
Denies infant baptism.
Denies the immortality of the soul.
Denies the eternality of hell fire.
Denies any use of alcohol (as a drink) or tobacco.

Aberrant

Our sins will ultimately be placed on Satan - The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485.
Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
Worship must be done on Saturday (the Sabbath).
On October 22, 1844 Jesus entered the second and last phase of his atoning work.
Investigative Judgment - the fate of all people will be decided based upon this event in the future.
The dead do not exist anymore -- soul sleep.
The wicked are annihilated.
Ellen G. White, the "founder" of Seventh Day Adventism, was a messenger from God gifted with the spirit of prophecy.
There is a sanctuary in heaven where Jesus carries out his mediatorial work.

SOURCE: http://www.carm.org/sda/teachings.htm

[layne]

In EJO's post, what does affirmations, denials, and aberrant mean?

[EJO]

Originally posted by layne
In EJO's post, what does affirmations, denials, and aberrant mean?

It is a general , broadstroke look of the beliefs and doctrines that the 7 day Adventists

-They affirm ...(these are general/specific christian doctrines)

-they deny... looking at this list I myself am not to big fan of infant baptism, and I do not deny alcohol (in moderation) if someone smokes, they do not loose thier salvation, they might loose a lung. I personally hate alchohol/tabacco.

-and there following aberrant beliefs that they have are...

I know some people who go to 7th day churches, and they might not see these issues come up from thier pulpit, or they might not know these things exsist. But knowing that they do is important.

As for as the post by Pastor NB- that came from left field, and I really have no idea what you are trying to communicate in the post.

Peace- EJO

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by EJO
It is a general , broadstroke look of the beliefs and doctrines that the 7 day Adventists

(zapped)

I know some people who go to 7th day churches, and they might not see these issues come up from thier pulpit, or they might not know these things exsist. But knowing that they do is important.
***********
P/N/B/ here:
You say, '.. Know these things exist'?? [The problem is in your corner].
What have you proven? That is the issue. Forget Adventism. You sound like a verse from Gen. 49:17, "Dan shall be as [a serpent] by the way, an adder in the [path], that [biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backwards.]" (plain talk is that he was a backbiter! & if one wants a broadstroke look at Adventist, why not go to the source? Instead of he said, she said, they said & now? You SAID?? God/forbid)

If you desire to knock the ten commandments, give scripture! If it is the Sabbath day belief, don't give a site with who knows whose leader they follow? In other words give your own proof for [your] statement.. "But KNOWING that they do is important".

If the above verse does not apply to you, perhaps this one does?

"But have [renounced] the hidden things of DISHONESTY, not walking in CRAFTINESS, nor HANDLING THE WORD OF GOD DECEITFULLY.." 2 Cor. 4:2 in part. ----P/N/B/

PS: And no I am not an Adventist, but how would you like people to do this type of scripture/less posting about you? But I doubt that you can understand these Words from the Master's Book either? See 1 John 4:6
*******

Peace- EJO

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.
how would you like people to do this type of scripture/less posting about you?

If I was investigating what a group did or did not believe, then I would research their beliefs and their interpretations of Scripture, not Scripture. I would investigate their beliefs and read their writings, such as catechisms and confessions. Then I could go down a "list" for the group by their own words... "We believe in X... We do not believe in X". Is it not right to read that a Seventh Day Adventist believes that the Sabbath in on Saturday, and that a Seventh Day Adventist does not believe that the Sabbath is on Sunday?

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by humblejoe
If I was investigating what a group did or did not believe, then I would research their beliefs and their interpretations of Scripture, not Scripture. I would investigate their beliefs and read their writings, such as catechisms and confessions. Then I could go down a "list" for the group by their own words... "We believe in X... We do not believe in X". Is it not right to read that a Seventh Day Adventist believes that the Sabbath in on Saturday, and that a Seventh Day Adventist does not believe that the Sabbath is on Sunday?
******
Hi again Joe: (sounds right to me, but only if one TESTS that doctrine by the 66 Books of the Word itself see 2 Tim. 3:16?)
Lets try it on another Fold, and include Protestantents, who say that they get their doctrines from the Word? Well, that is not the case either, for Catholicism say that they can change scripture as 'their leader' sees fit.
But as far as I am concerned Joe, using your standard, ALL OF THE BELOW DENOMINATIONS ARE GUILTY OF James 2:10-12 & are of the wrong 'fold'.

Any how here are some denominational statements:

"It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church". -Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, N.J. 'News', March 18, 1903.

Another: "Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for publicc worship after the Catholic Church made the change ... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope." -Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950.

"It was the Catholic Church which, by the authority of Jesus Christ, has transferred this rest (from the Bible Sabbath) to the Sunday ... Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church." -Plain Talk about Protestants of Today, pg. 213

And what does the Master say in Mark 7:7. And again see HIS Word of all capital lettering in Rev. 17:5! "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE [MOTHER OF HARLOTS] AND ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH." :sleep:

And now for some others with Knowledge. See Hosea 4:6 for a fact! And what of Luke 12:47-48? :cry:

Baptist: "There was and is a command to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will however be readily said, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh day to the first day of the week, with all of its duties, privaliges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years. I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament---absolutely not. There is no scriptual evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh day to the first day of the week."--Dr. E.T. Hiscox, author of the Baptist Manual.

Congregationalist: "It is quite clear that however rigidly or devotedly we may spend Sunday, we are not keeping the Sabbath ... The Sabbath was founded on specific, divine command. We can plead no such command for the observance of Sunday ... There is not a single line in the New Testament to suggest that we incur any penalty by violating the supposed sanctity of Sunday." -Dr. R.W. Dale, The Ten Commandments, pgs. 106-107.

Now, there are another six or so 'denominations' quotes that I have before me. If one was interested? But the bottom line is in these few above ones.

Let me close this out with a Word from the beloved John, in 1 John 2:4.

"He that saieth, I know (love) Him, and [keepeth not] His commandments, is a liar, and the [TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM]". ---P/N/B/

[Caedmon]

Interesting... I've seen those quotes before. Tell me... has the Hebrew calendar been without flaw since the beginnings of the Jewish people? How do we know that Saturday is the exact day of the Sabbath?

And why should I not celebrate the Sabbath on the day the Lord rose from the grave? And why does it matter which day I honor the Sabbath, as long as it is a "seventh day"? Perhaps I should also use only Yahweh when I talk to God as well? Perhaps I should adopt "sacred name" practice? What is the limit to this? Should I not eat of pork? Should I stone the son that curses? Should I declare the mold "unclean"? Tell me... :scratch:

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by humblejoe
Interesting... I've seen those quotes before. Tell me... has the Hebrew calendar been without flaw since the beginnings of the Jewish people? How do we know that Saturday is the exact day of the Sabbath?

And why should I not celebrate the Sabbath on the day the Lord rose from the grave? And why does it matter which day I honor the Sabbath, as long as it is a "seventh day"? Perhaps I should also use only Yahweh when I talk to God as well? Perhaps I should adopt "sacred name" practice? What is the limit to this? Should I not eat of pork? Should I stone the son that curses? Should I declare the mold "unclean"? Tell me... :scratch:
********
Remember Joe,
that you NEED the Word of God for the answer. First, does it matter? Did it matter what the loving sacrifice Cain offered up, was? (fruit or Lamb, or Sabbath or Sunday fruit? Mark 7:7) That should be enough of many, illustrations. You most likely need to re/read the Ex. 16 account. Start with verse 4-5 & then 26-28 & then 35.

And about the DAY? The account was that God Blessed the Day, and [SET IT ASIDE FOR HOLY USE]. Use the illustration of seven women & you are married to the seventh one? Does it matter if you take the first one home with you? (only one is 'blessed' & 'set aside for Holy use') And remember that there was no sin even yet.

It is His Day regardless of time limit or our lifetime. He tells that it is HIS MEMORIAL in Psalms 135:13. (you understand that? every seventh day is the Memorial of creation throughout *ALL GENERATIONS) It will be kept in the new earth, :clap: see Isaiah 66:22-23. And what was it that the Angel told John, when he was aw/struck & fell down in worship? Read it in Rev.'s last chapter verse 8-9!

The day that the Lord rose from the grave? (that is what baptism signifies.. DEATH, BURIAL, RESURECTION) Tell us Joe, where the Word commands this & I will obey! (see Acts 5:32) It just plain is not there! (as Hiscox points out from a long time study)
Next came 'logic' (?) of how do we know the exact day? The same way that Sunday is known by Sunday professors. Our calender came about by the 'days' of Christ.

Joe: this sounds more like Cain's temperment. But [if] you want answer's? Then understand that there two laws that stand out in Scripture. Deut 31 is a good place to 'see' these. One Moses wrote in a book & they were put in [THE SIDE] of the Ark, [WHERE AS THE TEN COMMANDMENT ROYAL LAW WAS PLACED *INSIDE THE ARK]. (try Rev. 11:19) Moses law were done away at the cross. It was 'added because of sin' (Gal. 3:19 perhaps)
Type met anti/type. (did you go to the site that I gave?--If you really want to grow, do so. It is a good site.)

About a name Joe? Rom. 2:14-15 teach that there will be 'folk' saved who had never even heard [the name] of our Master! But NOTICE what they would have done if they had? "Which [shew the work of the law *written in their hearts] ..." Try our 'first heart transplant' as seen in 2 Cor. 3:3, this [IS] the 'BORN AGAIN' of John 3:5-10. (notice where the Royal law is now located) And it is THIS [WORKING] FAITH THAT WORSHIPS THE MASTER, not the professing of His name! Again Acts 5:32.

And this other stuff? Even the 'milk' fed, can see Gen. 9:5 telling us in todays 'light' that flesh food shortens life? Try Gen. 13:10 on? From around 1000 yr. olds to this. Why? But also consider the Master's Word of Isa. 66:15-17 for the TRUTH!

This is long enough! :) But remember that our Master said 'IF YE *LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS' And there was a commandment of sorts for us in Matt. 4:4, huh? "Man doeth not live by bread alone, but by [EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD]. That is enough for me and my house :bow: ----P/N/B/

[Caedmon]

You preach excellently Pastor N.B.(however that is taken :D ) I think I am beginning to understand your position. At first I misunderstood, but I'm following your "cadence" now, yes? :D Of course, I will have to take time to study these things and perhaps talk later. Although I am not sure of the importance of keeping the Sabbath exactly on Saturday, I do recognize that it is ambiguous as to the reasoning behind a Sunday Sabbath. There is a tidbit about the Catholic Church(although I am not Catholic) though that perhaps you find interesting... the Catholic Church offers "mass" on Saturday. What belief could come of this? It is interesting. But that aside, as I said, I will have to study the Sabbath and its day for a time before I continue to speak on this. Blessings :wave:

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by humblejoe
You preach excellently Pastor N.B.(however that is taken :D ) I think I am beginning to understand your position. At first I misunderstood, but I'm following your "cadence" now, yes? :D Of course, I will have to take time to study these things and perhaps talk later. Although I am not sure of the importance of keeping the Sabbath exactly on Saturday, I do recognize that it is ambiguous as to the reasoning behind a Sunday Sabbath. There is a tidbit about the Catholic Church(although I am not Catholic) though that perhaps you find interesting... the Catholic Church offers "mass" on Saturday. What belief could come of this? It is interesting. But that aside, as I said, I will have to study the Sabbath and its day for a time before I continue to speak on this. Blessings :wave:
*******
Joe:
It takes time to mature. I sincerely hope that you go to the site posted. (I will post it again) For me at least, understanding this Sanctuary subject has done more than any subject to ground me I believe. It is a 'good' study & well done. Just understanding a few of the articles are important.

Case in point: David said that he did not understand the end of the rich wicked until he went into the Sanctuary. Read Psalms 73:12-17
Now if he told you this today, would you understand him???

There is nothing in the Master's Word that does not 'cluster' around the Sanctuary! {nothing}.

http://biblelight.net/temple.htm

Your are in my prayers---P/N/B/

[Gerry]

Browsing this thread I am sickened by some of the responses I have seen. It is tragic when one who is searching comes and is subjected to so much non sense that not only does not honor God but does damage to the one seeking.

But there is always those willing to turn a serious honest question into a topic for debate that should belong in Apologetics.

She should have been told simply about the hideous cult of JW, and told how to seek a Bible Believing Church.

But apparently that is not what this thread is about.

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by layne
<DIV>I want to start going to attending&nbsp; church... :help: </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Is there any scriptural advice on which church to join? Do you think God will send a sure fire sign if I pray? :pray:&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>(Every time I have prayed for help in this, a Jehovah's Witness has come up and offered me literature while I've been waiting for the bus, and it's always been on&nbsp;a day when I've been late or something. I wonder if those were just coincidences, or signs from God? Or maybe it's just because&nbsp;they're always out there preaching?)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;:confused:&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'm sure someone has a good scripture to point out? </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks!</DIV>

*******
Hi again Layne: :),-----------------(added emphasis)
P/N/B/ here:Let me give you Words of caution, OK? There are many denominations who do evangelism, they are LOOKING for you! (not just some named ones) Read for yourself the [MASTER'S WORDS] of Matt. 23:15.

Now, let me print for you another 'exact Wording' from [CHRIST] , OK? And please be on guard for ALL evangelist who CALL HIS WORDS HERE FOOLISHNESS! :cry: Here is His COMMANDMENT.

"GO ye therefore, and [teach] all nations, baptizing them in the name of [the Father], and of [the SON], and [of the HOLY GHOST]: ((notice that some call this nonsence)) Teaching them [TO OBSERVE *ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER *I HAVE COMMANDED YOU].." Matt. 28:19-20 in part. Try 2 Tim. 3:16 for some more TRUTH!

Notice Nehemiah 9:12-14 (in part) Layne?
A [Christian church should] teach this [inspired truth].

"Moreover [thou] ledest them in the day by a cloudy pillar; and in the night by a pillar of fire, ... [THOU CAMEST DOWN *ALSO UPON MOUNT SINAI, AND SPAKEST WITH THEM FROM HEAVEN, *AND GAVEST THEM RIGHT JUDGEMENTS, AND TRUE LAWS, AND STATUTES AND [*COMMANDMENTS:] AND MADEST KNOWN UNTO THEM [*THY HOLY SABBATH], ..." Who is this thou God???

Paul tells us who this God is! Inspiration uses the Word 'IGNORANT'. (Printed in part only, you can read it all) But REMEMBER in the Matt. 28:20 verse, that Christ said to keep His Commandments, TO TEACH THIS!

And here in 1 Cor. 10:1-4 Paul penned these Words, that tell us who it was that came [down on Mt. Sinai and gave Moses the 10 Commandments.
"Moreover, brethern, I would not that ye should be [ignorant], how that all ... And did all eat the same [spiritual meat]; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that [spiritual ROCK that followed them: *AND THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST]." (not 'p'eter either!)

Hope that this helps you in finding Christs True fold! Rom. 8:14 And remember that Christ stated a Truth, "IF" ye love me, KEEP MY COMMAMDMENTS".. ALL TEN!---P/N/B/

[growingupinhim]

I don't think God intended for everyone to break up into denominations on Earth when he created us. In Heaven, I don't believe that they're are denominations, and I don't think God will judge you based on what church you attended. The only thing you need to worry about is worshipping Him with all of your heart. If you can solemly swear that you believe that Jesus died for you and for your sins, so that you could go to heaven and if you truely believe that Jesus is God, and if you redeem yourself of all you sins and lay them upon God, than I believe that'd enough to give you eternal life. The church thing, is important, but it is just for fellowship and support.
I agree..also though evidence of being converted is that you bear some fruits.. In galtians are the fruits of the spirit..I am amzed how many don't want to be sanctify, but love grace when the knowingly and wantingly remain in sinful lifestyles (especially sexual immorality)
Peace!

[Celticflower]

To get back to the original question of this thread--is any one denomination right?

Here is my opinion--take it for what it is worth, accept it, reject it, print it out and put it on the dart board--it is still just mine.

Just as there was no ONE right way for Christ to perform a miracle (see the healings of the 2 blind men mentioned in the Bible), I do not believe there is any ONE right way for God to talk to our hearts. He uses what works best for the individual.
So while there may be groups that are dead wrong in their teachings, and no one denomination can claim to be the only right church, I feel that there is a right denomination (or congregation) for each person. Find a church that is trying to be Biblical (none are perfect), that teaches and feeds your soul and that reaches out beyond the walls of the church building to bring God's love to others. Stay away from churches that "need" extra "scripture", teach things which are historically as well as Biblically wrong and have closed worship services (i.e. no visitors from outside their denomination/cult/group). Most importantly, ask God to direct you to the place you belong, the place where He can use you the best, the place where He can help you grow the most.