The Baptist and the Trinity?

[stone]

As Jesus stood before John the baptist in the river on earth. Father spoke from heaven and said, "This is my son...etc" A dove descended from heaven, this shows all 3 elements of the trinity, how does the baptist church understand this?

[Iollain]

There is nothing really to understand about it, it's pretty clear cut.

[Iollain]

That was not really a dove, but the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove.

[bethdinsmore]

All the Baptists I know believe that there is only one true God, made up of three persons (the Trinity), as shown here.

Matt 3:16-17
16 As soon as Jesus [God the Son] was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God [God the Holy Spirit] descending like a dove and lighting on him.
17 And a voice from heaven [God the Father] said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
(NIV)

aloha in Jesus, friend

[stone]

ummm... i'm not getting an answer?


saying it's pretty clear is not answering my curiousity

let me explain, i was told by a baptist, you believe that jesus and the father are one in the same, the exact same person.

is this true?

you repeat my arguement that they are not, as your defense that they are? explaination please?

and you know it was flesh nailed down, not spirit

and yes, i know it was spirit in the form of a dove

[bethdinsmore]

OK, understand your question a little better now. We believe God is one divine being in three persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Not one person. The following websites have articles on the Trinity, including verses.
www.probe.org/content/category/15/65/77/ (http://www.probe.org/content/category/15/65/77/)
www.rbc.org/ds/q0107/page2.html (http://www.rbc.org/ds/q0107/page2.html)
www.biblehelp.org/reference_1.htm (http://www.biblehelp.org/reference_1.htm)

This doctrine is believed by all Protestant denominations that I am aware of, and I believe (but am not sure) that the Catholics believe the same.

Aloha in Jesus

[stone]

if i may be more direct,


do baptist beleive that Jesus is god?

Do baptist beleive that there is a Jesus and then there is also the father?

Do baptist beleive that Jesus sits at the right side of father?

[aReformedPatriot]

As Jesus stood before John the baptist in the river on earth. Father spoke from heaven and said, "This is my son...etc" A dove descended from heaven, this shows all 3 elements of the trinity, how does the baptist church understand this?

Baptists belive that the Son is God, The Holy Spirit is God, and The Father is God. Likewise The Father is not Jesus nor the Holy Spirit; The Son is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit; The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor the Son.

1 God, 3 forms. If anyone understands it, let him write a book and make millions.

if i may be more direct,


do baptist beleive that Jesus is god? Yep

Do baptist beleive that there is a Jesus and then there is also the father? Yep

Do baptist beleive that Jesus sits at the right side of father? Yep--but not just at his right side, but at his right hand...

:bow::bow::bow::bow:

[JPPT1974]

That was not really a dove, but the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove.

The dove is a representation of peace.
As it is God who's the Prince of peace.

[Iollain]

ummm... i'm not getting an answer?


saying it's pretty clear is not answering my curiousity

let me explain, i was told by a baptist, you believe that jesus and the father are one in the same, the exact same person.

is this true?

you repeat my arguement that they are not, as your defense that they are? explaination please?

and you know it was flesh nailed down, not spirit

and yes, i know it was spirit in the form of a dove

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are One God, yes.

[FreeinChrist]

if i may be more direct,


do baptist beleive that Jesus is god?

Do baptist beleive that there is a Jesus and then there is also the father?


Baptists believe that God is three distinct persons, one essence: God the Father, Son the Son, God the Holy Spirit = One God.

Jesus was 100%God/100%man.

Do baptist beleive that Jesus sits at the right side of father?
Yes.

[stone]

**phew**

ok, i'm glad to hear that, i agree.

Maybe i should write that book and make millions. ;)

[aReformedPatriot]

Maybe i should write that book and make millions. ;)

You can understand this logical paradox? That is, how something can be 3 yet one at the same time? Can you explain it to us?

[stone]

are you serious?

i thought everybody understood this?

[stone]

the answer is the spirit. although it can act seperate from the others, and the others can act independantly of each other, you know, like when jesus was baptised, the spirit holds it all together, it is of the father.

Jesus is of the father and the spirit, although he is alone, he has the spirit in him and he was born and fathered by the spirit, which is of the father.

are you guys just putting me on?

i dont get it, what's so difficult to understand?

[stone]

There is one thing i've been trying to understand about all this, maybe someone can help.


When Nebacaneezar had Daniel thrown in the fire, the king identified the 4th man in the fire as the son of man.

Solomon identifies himself also as the son of man, as i believe David did. Jesus called himself the son of man, and was of the seed of David.

So who was in the fire?

[aReformedPatriot]

the answer is the spirit. although it can act seperate from the others, and the others can act independantly of each other, you know, like when jesus was baptised, the spirit holds it all together, it is of the father.

Jesus is of the father and the spirit, although he is alone, he has the spirit in him and he was born and fathered by the spirit, which is of the father.

are you guys just putting me on?

i dont get it, what's so difficult to understand?

But even then they are all distinct from the spirit. You have ONE God, in 3 Persons. Even if one is holding them together it fails to explain the question at all, which is, "how can they be one yet 3 at the same time?"
How does the spirit hold everything together at Jesus' baptism?

And no, we are not putting you on--I have never heard such a theory before.

[aReformedPatriot]

There is one thing i've been trying to understand about all this, maybe someone can help.


When Nebacaneezar had Daniel thrown in the fire, the king identified the 4th man in the fire as the son of man.

Solomon identifies himself also as the son of man, as i believe David did. Jesus called himself the son of man, and was of the seed of David.

So who was in the fire?

Jesus, when David uses the term he uses it differently. Good Question. The reference to Jesus as the son of man comes from the middle of Daniel 7. Read it and you will understand why when Jesus refers to himself as the Son of Man in Mark people want to kill him.

[stone]

But even then they are all distinct from the spirit. You have ONE God, in 3 Persons. Even if one is holding them together it fails to explain the question at all, which is, "how can they be one yet 3 at the same time?"
How does the spirit hold everything together at Jesus' baptism?

And no, we are not putting you on--I have never heard such a theory before.

is this somekind of a joke?

it must be, how can so many people follow something they don't understand?

Father - created the spirit... yes or no, of course he did, Jesus was created by... let's see... father.

Father created everything yes?

Son of the father right?

spirit of the father...

maybe it will take a bit to type this out for folks to understand...

i can't beleive this... :scratch:

a theory.... but....

[stone]

Jesus, when David uses the term he uses it differently. Good Question. The reference to Jesus as the son of man comes from the middle of Daniel 7. Read it and you will understand why when Jesus refers to himself as the Son of Man in Mark people want to kill him.

This is what i've understood.

This would indicate that Jesus has much to do with the law and could have been with Moses on Mt. Sinai?

Jesus said, before Abraham was, i am. This is him saying that it is possible that he can travel in time?

[stone]

and now im reminded, that with the father all things can be done, i will leave on this note, cya manana

[aReformedPatriot]

is this somekind of a joke?

it must be, how can so many people follow something they don't understand?

Father - created the spirit... yes or no, of course he did, Jesus was created by... let's see... father.

Father created everything yes?

Son of the father right?

spirit of the father...

maybe it will take a bit to type this out for folks to understand...

i can't beleive this... :scratch:

a theory.... but....

This is what I thought you were saying and you have spoken heresy. The Holy Spirit is not a creation. Jesus is not a creation. Jesus is "I Am," which means he is God, he and the Father are one. The Holy Spirit and God are one. The name "I am" has nothing to do with time travelling. That is the Name God chose for himelf and gave to Moses in Exodus. When Jesus says he is "I am" he is saying he is God. And if he is not "I am" then Jesus truly is the blasphemer the Pharisees thought he was and was rightly put to death and the faith falls apart.

You and I, we are creations. God is the creator--Jesus is God and thus cannot be a creation. You see, it is impossible to understand, it is a mystery that God has not yet sought fit for us to know.

Praying for you :prayer:

Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, All

Fine work from a Baptist on this issue.

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=17259&netp_id=135860&event=ESRCN&item_code=WW

http://graphics.christianbook.com/g/tiny/1/17259.gif (http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=17259&netp_id=135860&event=ESRCN&item_code=WW)


Peace to u,

Bill

[stone]

This is what I thought you were saying and you have spoken heresy. The Holy Spirit is not a creation. Jesus is not a creation. Jesus is "I Am," which means he is God, he and the Father are one. The Holy Spirit and God are one. The name "I am" has nothing to do with time travelling. That is the Name God chose for himelf and gave to Moses in Exodus. When Jesus says he is "I am" he is saying he is God. And if he is not "I am" then Jesus truly is the blasphemer the Pharisees thought he was and was rightly put to death and the faith falls apart.

You and I, we are creations. God is the creator--Jesus is God and thus cannot be a creation. You see, it is impossible to understand, it is a mystery that God has not yet sought fit for us to know.

Praying for you :prayer:

ridiculous statements is what these are

everything you have just said makes absoloutely no sense at all

it is no wonder at all why such a simple understanding can be complicated when folks as yourself take it and tear it apart and mix it up back together and take out the one element that holds it all together.

Jesus was born to Mary no?

Father is not Jesus, but a part of father is with Jesus.

There is nothing in your scriptures that says that the father has a name.

Jesus says:

"Our father who arth in heaven"

-right here Jesus is telling you that father is in heaven as he is speaking here on earth.

"Hallowed be thy name"

-the name of father is one that can not be spoken, it is a holy name, no one knows it here on earth

So you see sir, you are the one who speaks in this blasphemy.

I caution you to not break the 1st law of the 10 commandments sir.

peace be with you

[aReformedPatriot]

ridiculous statements is what these are

everything you have just said makes absoloutely no sense at all

it is no wonder at all why such a simple understanding can be complicated when folks as yourself take it and tear it apart and mix it up back together and take out the one element that holds it all together.

Jesus was born to Mary no?

Father is not Jesus, but a part of father is with Jesus.

There is nothing in your scriptures that says that the father has a name.

Jesus says:

"Our father who arth in heaven"

-right here Jesus is telling you that father is in heaven as he is speaking here on earth.

"Hallowed be thy name"

-the name of father is one that can not be spoken, it is a holy name, no one knows it here on earth

So you see sir, you are the one who speaks in this blasphemy.

I caution you to not break the 1st law of the 10 commandments sir.

peace be with you

You sir, are a proponent of non orthodox theology. God did give himself a name, "I Am."

Exo 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' what shall I say to them?"
Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

Thus, Theologically Jesus identifies himself as "I Am" giving himself the "name" of God. Amen I say to you, Hallowed be his name, the Glorious "I Am," let every knee bow in adoration. Father, Adonai, Elohim, (all names of God).

You position that Jesus is a creation is silly. Is Jesus God, or is he not? Is he, as John 1:1 records:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

These passages refer to Jesus. In the beginning was the WORD [Jesus], and "the word was with God" [Jesus, the Son], and "the word WAS God." Jesus is God, always has been God, and is not a creation of God nor was he a man who became God. Jesus is beggotten of the Father, not a creation. Likewise the Holy Spirit is not a creation.

Is Jesus God?

[RED that's ME]

Thread was started by a non-Baptist/AnaBaptist member. Since the questions have been answered, the thread is now closed.